895 réponses à ce sujet

[Dokarqt]

Somehow missed this thread. I'll just do a lazy copy/paste from one of my posts in another thread with minor alterations.

The whole import from previous game thing should stop. It makes
sense in a trilogy like mass effect where you play the same character in
all games (the sequels are literally just a continuation of Shepards
story). However, the only thing that the DA games have in common is the
setting (not counting awakening since that was an expansion). I never
understood why there was an import setting in DA2 in the first place.
Personally,
for DA3, I want a completely new main character with completely new
companions/NPCs with absolutely nothing in common with the previous
games (apart from the setting of course). I dont even want cameo
appearances.
It's time for a fresh start and removal of the shackles of games past.

[archangel1996]

You can do something like that in games like Oblivion---Skyrim, centuries apart
In Dragon age (Age 9:00) the choices we made and make 'should' change the outcomes of the war for example, Hawke-Teampalrs/Mages, King/Queen Ferelden, Dalish, Dwarf and so on..... imho, doing something like that now, with a series that is going to finish with other 2 games is just...bad
Example: If my Hawke supported the mages i don't want to hear that i supported the templars
Let's be honest, the save import could have worked fine....but they lost themselves along the way: Awakening(dead warden, srsly, who did that?) DA2 and even the book Asunder(Wynne can be killed)

[Flemmy]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

The only reason I like the save import in DA is to keep the universe consistant. I mean I don't want to hear about some other Warden Origin and how he stopped the blight instead of me.

I agree it's more intressting that way, to see how we players affects our story... sort of...
The big choices you do should remane och it would be intressting if for exemple you'll meet the warden in the 3:rd game to have the looks data saved too execpt this would be as the game itself; character look.

Modifié par Flemmy, 24 avril 2013 - 01:22 .

[robertthebard]

archangel1996 wrote...

You can do something like that in games like Oblivion---Skyrim, centuries apart
In Dragon age (Age 9:00) the choices we made and make 'should' change the outcomes of the war for example, Hawke-Teampalrs/Mages, King/Queen Ferelden, Dalish, Dwarf and so on..... imho, doing something like that now, with a series that is going to finish with other 2 games is just...bad
Example: If my Hawke supported the mages i don't want to hear that i supported the templars
Let's be honest, the save import could have worked fine....but they lost themselves along the way: Awakening(dead warden, srsly, who did that?) DA2 and even the book Asunder(Wynne can be killed)

I did, more than once.  My CE romanced Alistair, until Redcliffe, where, on my very first playthrough, I didn't know he was Maric's son, and I played my CE exactly as I would have reacted to somebody that I'd been intimate with had dropped that kind of bomb on me.  Which resulted in Alistair dumping her because reasons.  After that, she him for what he truly was, just another human in a world controlled by humans.  If she could have walked away from the Blight at this point, she would have.  In this run, Redcliffe was the last thing I did, so no time to let time heal her wounds, and when it came time to end the Archdemon, she did it herself.  If you want to see another motivation to take yourself out of the equation, ignore the implications of withholding that kind of information on a CE or DE and try to become queen.  It's "sorry, I love you, but not enough to make you my queen, nobody else would understand".  Do you remain Alistair's dirty little secret, or do you take your way out?

It's not hard to decide to take the Ultimate Sacrifice option, even w/out all that.  Any male Warden that made Alistair king, and didn't trust Morrigan, will find themselves in that position, unless they selfishly decide to let Alistair do it, after all the work they went through to make him king.  I don't recall if that's even possible now, since Alistair never gets that far, he's either dead or a drunk by then.  So it's incredibly easy to justify the US.  It is, also, Ultimately Satisfying to do so.  Not to mention, going forward, it makes things easier.  My current playthrough, once I can get myself to finish Orzammar, will be doing the sacrifice.

Where they truly hosed themselves was the DR, Jimmy mentions the Anvil, which never occurred to me, since the only time I saved it was for the achievement, and I then promptly reloaded and destroyed it, so it's not an issue in my games, but, it can be an issue.  A dead Warden is covered by Awakening, but for an alive Warden, there is also Witch Hunt, which also paints them into the DR corner.  So really, that's the "going to be hard to get out of this unscathed" scenario.  A dead Warden is actually easier to deal with, because they don't have to.  They have the Awakening Warden, with no connection to Morrigan, and therefore no need to deal with Witch Hunt or the DR.

[archangel1996]

robertthebard wrote...

archangel1996 wrote...

You can do something like that in games like Oblivion---Skyrim, centuries apart
In Dragon age (Age 9:00) the choices we made and make 'should' change the outcomes of the war for example, Hawke-Teampalrs/Mages, King/Queen Ferelden, Dalish, Dwarf and so on..... imho, doing something like that now, with a series that is going to finish with other 2 games is just...bad
Example: If my Hawke supported the mages i don't want to hear that i supported the templars
Let's be honest, the save import could have worked fine....but they lost themselves along the way: Awakening(dead warden, srsly, who did that?) DA2 and even the book Asunder(Wynne can be killed)

I did, more than once.  My CE romanced Alistair, until Redcliffe, where, on my very first playthrough, I didn't know he was Maric's son, and I played my CE exactly as I would have reacted to somebody that I'd been intimate with had dropped that kind of bomb on me.  Which resulted in Alistair dumping her because reasons.  After that, she him for what he truly was, just another human in a world controlled by humans.  If she could have walked away from the Blight at this point, she would have.  In this run, Redcliffe was the last thing I did, so no time to let time heal her wounds, and when it came time to end the Archdemon, she did it herself.  If you want to see another motivation to take yourself out of the equation, ignore the implications of withholding that kind of information on a CE or DE and try to become queen.  It's "sorry, I love you, but not enough to make you my queen, nobody else would understand".  Do you remain Alistair's dirty little secret, or do you take your way out?

It's not hard to decide to take the Ultimate Sacrifice option, even w/out all that.  Any male Warden that made Alistair king, and didn't trust Morrigan, will find themselves in that position, unless they selfishly decide to let Alistair do it, after all the work they went through to make him king.  I don't recall if that's even possible now, since Alistair never gets that far, he's either dead or a drunk by then.  So it's incredibly easy to justify the US.  It is, also, Ultimately Satisfying to do so.  Not to mention, going forward, it makes things easier.  My current playthrough, once I can get myself to finish Orzammar, will be doing the sacrifice.

Where they truly hosed themselves was the DR, Jimmy mentions the Anvil, which never occurred to me, since the only time I saved it was for the achievement, and I then promptly reloaded and destroyed it, so it's not an issue in my games, but, it can be an issue.  A dead Warden is covered by Awakening, but for an alive Warden, there is also Witch Hunt, which also paints them into the DR corner.  So really, that's the "going to be hard to get out of this unscathed" scenario.  A dead Warden is actually easier to deal with, because they don't have to.  They have the Awakening Warden, with no connection to Morrigan, and therefore no need to deal with Witch Hunt or the DR.

Sorry, i din't mean that
One of my Cousland who romanced Morrigan did that too, i meant that in Awakening there is no option to import the sacrificed warden story and then use the Orlesian one, but there is the possibility to resurrect the dead warden

[Fast Jimmy]

^

Yeah, that was a head scratcher. I would have thought the entire purpose of the Orlesian Warden would be for those players who had performed the Ultimate Sacrifice.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 25 avril 2013 - 04:39 .

[Heimdall]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

^

Yeah, that was a head scratcher. I would have thought the entire purpose of the Orlesian Warden would be for those players who had performed the Ultimate Sacrifice.

I'm guessing that was part of the original plan, but I'm not sure why they changed it.

[Luckywallace]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

The risk with making choices impactful is that you make the consequence the important aspect. If curing the genophage results in a cutscene/slide of the Krogan going all militant and overrunning the galaxy, you're still going to get MANY (MANY!) very pissed off people. You also get the game telling the player "The best solution may not have been curing the genophage after all. You chose poorly." Nevermind the host of other accusations that people would then place on us (the content creators) for allowing such an act to take place. An advantage of not making it immediately obvious (especially given that, within the scope of ME3, the curing of the genophage is something that is going to have long term consequences, not so much short term ones) is that it can leave the player with the feeling of "I hope my choice was worth it in the end." Especially if the choice itself is presented in a way that it may or may not have good consequences.

See... I *DO* want a game to give me a good kicking from time to time if I make a bad choice. I don't mean every choice has to be like that or the game always is trying to trick you but there should be some quests with shades-of-grey tough choices where there is a very bad outcome to a quest (Bhelan/Harromont is a perfect example). Likewise, the Connor/Circle of Mages situation was not that bad because sometimes you should be able to take a real gamble (trusting that Connor wouldn't go psycho and slaughter everybody while you were away) and have it pay off.

Witcher 2 had a really good quest where some spirits were attempting to make you kill a guy they claimed had done terrible things but actually he was totally innocent - the game gave you the chance to just screw it up and that was great.

Likewise, in Alpha Protocol you can blow away a guy who is just offering to give you an ice cream - pretty much a flat out bad choice but it's great that you can make that mistake.

By including stuff like tha it makes all the good/'correct' choices you make actually more impactful - I was so pleased with myself for *not* bringing Carver into the Deep Roads in Act 1 when I later found out he would have died (I didn't take Anders either) - if nothing bad, or only "shades of grey" things ever happened from your choices then the good impacts mean less.

[Keeper of Light]

No.

[Dubozz]

Allan Schumacher wrote...
Why I liked the ME3 ending, was that you got to know pretty much as much as Shepard got to know, and you had to make your choice at the end without knowing how things work out. In that sense, the emphasis shifted more to the idea of the ethical considerations of the choice itself, rather than any sort of validation from the game (Yay, the game agrees with me that my choice was bestest), or cognitive dissonance avoidance schemes (Pfft, stupid game... I don't think it'd play out like that at all).

Looks like we are in trouble. 

[Orctavius]

I've been thinking this as well. We already have semi-canon with Alistair being king in the comics. The real advantage would be allowing the player to make huge world altering choices. In DAII the game ended the same way no matter what you did. Abandoning the carry over save would let us make huge world altering choices, without binding the hands of the developers when its time for Dragon Age 4.

[UnderlAlDyingSun]

That's a horrible decision, the community would be in an uproar.

They need to allow us to edit our imports to make sure everythings the way it should be, as I've not had a single completely successful import into DA2.

[Fast Jimmy]

iiReaperZz wrote...

That's a horrible decision, the community would be in an uproar.

They need to allow us to edit our imports to make sure everythings the way it should be, as I've not had a single completely successful import into DA2.

But even for those imports that did function correctly, did you find them satisfying or enjoyable? Did you have a particular Import outcome that really "sealed the deal" for you in DA2? Or, conversely, the ME series?

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 02 mai 2013 - 11:44 .

[KENNY4753]

dont remove it, improve it.

Sorry but with some sort of of import system DA will lose my interest. If I wanted to play a game where choices I make dont have any meaning I'd go play TES.

[KENNY4753]

^^ i meant without.

Cant edit posts

[wright1978]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

iiReaperZz wrote...

That's a horrible decision, the community would be in an uproar.

They need to allow us to edit our imports to make sure everythings the way it should be, as I've not had a single completely successful import into DA2.

But even for those imports that did function correctly, did you find them satisfying or enjoyable? Did you have a particular Import outcome that really "sealed the deal" for you in DA2? Or, conversely, the ME series?

I found them satisfying and enjoyable because they maintained the illusion that this was the Universe my protaganists shaped. Sure they could be improved and import errors could be avoided. Now if suddenly Alistair is made king after i'd had his head lopped off in my universe that is gone copmpletely and that is something i'd find highly unsatisfying.

[Little Princess Peach]

I like the save import gismo, the only thing is, it's got it's flaws for example in DA:o my warden romanced Zev and she died, so Zev should of had he was still not over the wardens death speech. but instead he slept with Izzy, I would like it if Bioware could improve upon the import.

I did not think the choices I made in DA:O matted that much in DA2 so I hope the choices that my Hawke made, would have more of an impact in 3.

[Fast Jimmy]

^

What choices, specifically, from DA2 would you like to see carried over? And what would be a satisfying way to have them carried over for you, personally?

[Little Princess Peach]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

^

What choices, specifically, from DA2 would you like to see carried over? And what would be a satisfying way to have them carried over for you, personally?

I hope I don't get yelled at but this is how I feel about things.

I would like the ackowlagement that my Hawke was pro mage, all the way from start to finish (mainly because she was a mage) for example, when we see mages fighting maybe some of them can use Hawkes name as a Battle cry or somthing.

The side quests helping the wardens, I want to see if  Stopping those Nobles that escaped Amaranthine were punished, maybe the new pc can find a note if she went to Denerim, saying We managed to sort out the situation the nobles will be charged so on and so forth.

the Battle with the Arashock, I would like that to be ackowlaged, if he said we will return have a small group of Quanari invade a town, if he said we will not  come back have someone sign a peace form.

also this is origins related but If my warden was nice to the mages and helped the Tower I would want someone somehwere to go hey, the warden helped the mages in ferelden.

Romances, If I romanced Anders I would like a reference a diary or a codex or somthing, I want that feeling that my old pc was in the Dragon age universe, even if we can't pla Hawke and the warden again I personally would love to have them intergrated in the world, not just brushed aside like yesterdays news.

so I don't care how small the quest if it was related to the wardens and we have a warden in the new group of nutjobs then please let them say somthing about it, for example my warden met the dalish my warden killed a giant dragon, my hawke was a mage who helped the wardens, she went into the deep roads and caused all sort of hell.

the list just goes on but this is what I would like to see.

not juyst some random oh yeah he/she exited the end, most of the gamers spent alot of hours with Hawke and the warden, and all those side quests and main quests are just going to waste.

[Fast Jimmy]

Galvanization wrote...

bleetman wrote...

If you can't reasonably accurately reflect decisions made in earlier games later on in the series, then you shouldn't have allowed me to make them in the first place.

This. Too late to back out now.

So, wait... if you can't import your choice into future games, then the game just shouldn't even let you make those choices in the first place? That seems a little... insane, I suppose?

Fallout is a game series with lots of great, amazing choices. FO3 was probably the weakest of the series in this regard (and, unfortunately, the game most people these days seem to equate to the Fallout name... but I digress), but the other games had lots of choices that wound up affecting the world in which the Fallout games played out. 

But they have no import. Does that mean the choices offered in those games, choices where people lived or died, where you were putting your own ideals and motives into play... just shouldn't have been done? That everyone should have to work for the Brotherhood of Steel or the NCR... because offering the player a choice to work for the other guys doesn't matter, simply because the choices can't be rolled over anyway?

Why not strip out all dialogue options? After all, if the next game isn't going to have a way to recognize what you said, then it shouldn't even let you pick what you say. 

Is that what I am understanding you are saying? That video games without import files should not offer any choice, period?

[Fast Jimmy]

Tali-vas-normandy wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

^

What choices, specifically, from DA2 would you like to see carried over? And what would be a satisfying way to have them carried over for you, personally?

I hope I don't get yelled at but this is how I feel about things.

I would like the ackowlagement that my Hawke was pro mage, all the way from start to finish (mainly because she was a mage) for example, when we see mages fighting maybe some of them can use Hawkes name as a Battle cry or somthing.

The side quests helping the wardens, I want to see if  Stopping those Nobles that escaped Amaranthine were punished, maybe the new pc can find a note if she went to Denerim, saying We managed to sort out the situation the nobles will be charged so on and so forth.

the Battle with the Arashock, I would like that to be ackowlaged, if he said we will return have a small group of Quanari invade a town, if he said we will not  come back have someone sign a peace form.

also this is origins related but If my warden was nice to the mages and helped the Tower I would want someone somehwere to go hey, the warden helped the mages in ferelden.

Romances, If I romanced Anders I would like a reference a diary or a codex or somthing, I want that feeling that my old pc was in the Dragon age universe, even if we can't pla Hawke and the warden again I personally would love to have them intergrated in the world, not just brushed aside like yesterdays news.

so I don't care how small the quest if it was related to the wardens and we have a warden in the new group of nutjobs then please let them say somthing about it, for example my warden met the dalish my warden killed a giant dragon, my hawke was a mage who helped the wardens, she went into the deep roads and caused all sort of hell.

the list just goes on but this is what I would like to see.

not juyst some random oh yeah he/she exited the end, most of the gamers spent alot of hours with Hawke and the warden, and all those side quests and main quests are just going to waste.

I see. 

In regards to your first suggestion, about how you would like the game to reference how you played a Pro-Mage Hawke... is it not possible that Hawke may have supported the Mages throughout DA2 and not been pro-Mage? For instance, what if Hawke was trying to protect his sister? Or impress LI Anders? Or just really tick off Fenris? Couldn't there be multiple instances where you can imagine a Hawke who made a decision, but who may have not been, in fact Pro-Mage/Pro-Templar, etc.? 

i realize such a recognition by you would sound great... but by someone else who made the same decision for different reasons, having Hawke as a Battle Cry for the Mages might be cringe-inducing. While your Universe gets supported, their's becomes diminished. Can you see where things like that might be tricky to deal with?

[robertthebard]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

iiReaperZz wrote...

That's a horrible decision, the community would be in an uproar.

They need to allow us to edit our imports to make sure everythings the way it should be, as I've not had a single completely successful import into DA2.

But even for those imports that did function correctly, did you find them satisfying or enjoyable? Did you have a particular Import outcome that really "sealed the deal" for you in DA2? Or, conversely, the ME series?

I actually did.  It was nice to have Wrex when I was supposed to have Wrex, and conversely, even though for me it didn't come up, Wreav when I was supposed to have Wreav.  It was nice, when it worked, to have Liara acknowledge that the one time I did romance her that it happened.  Note that I had to force that one to work with gibbed's editor, since the import function failed at that, but, once fixed, and working as intended it was nice to see.  It's nice to see the VS be who it's supposed to be.  You see, these are part of the import function.  Yes, the game has default settings for them, but when you play the previous titles, it's nice to see that what you chose is what happened.

So if they were to just canon a certain path, and disregard choices they offered initially, it comes down to why even bother to allow the choices.  Canon the path from the start and be done with it.  Wanting to kill it now makes less sense than running with it and trying to improve upon it.  I finished a run of Origins last night, and started Awakening this morning.  Howe is a Warden, if it doesn't carry over that way into DA 2, why bother with Awakening, I may as well have not purchased it.  Since the events transpire anyway, I could have spent that money elsewhere.  So no, removing the save import is bad, especially at this juncture.

[robertthebard]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Tali-vas-normandy wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

^

What choices, specifically, from DA2 would you like to see carried over? And what would be a satisfying way to have them carried over for you, personally?

I hope I don't get yelled at but this is how I feel about things.

I would like the ackowlagement that my Hawke was pro mage, all the way from start to finish (mainly because she was a mage) for example, when we see mages fighting maybe some of them can use Hawkes name as a Battle cry or somthing.

The side quests helping the wardens, I want to see if  Stopping those Nobles that escaped Amaranthine were punished, maybe the new pc can find a note if she went to Denerim, saying We managed to sort out the situation the nobles will be charged so on and so forth.

the Battle with the Arashock, I would like that to be ackowlaged, if he said we will return have a small group of Quanari invade a town, if he said we will not  come back have someone sign a peace form.

also this is origins related but If my warden was nice to the mages and helped the Tower I would want someone somehwere to go hey, the warden helped the mages in ferelden.

Romances, If I romanced Anders I would like a reference a diary or a codex or somthing, I want that feeling that my old pc was in the Dragon age universe, even if we can't pla Hawke and the warden again I personally would love to have them intergrated in the world, not just brushed aside like yesterdays news.

so I don't care how small the quest if it was related to the wardens and we have a warden in the new group of nutjobs then please let them say somthing about it, for example my warden met the dalish my warden killed a giant dragon, my hawke was a mage who helped the wardens, she went into the deep roads and caused all sort of hell.

the list just goes on but this is what I would like to see.

not juyst some random oh yeah he/she exited the end, most of the gamers spent alot of hours with Hawke and the warden, and all those side quests and main quests are just going to waste.

I see. 

In regards to your first suggestion, about how you would like the game to reference how you played a Pro-Mage Hawke... is it not possible that Hawke may have supported the Mages throughout DA2 and not been pro-Mage? For instance, what if Hawke was trying to protect his sister? Or impress LI Anders? Or just really tick off Fenris? Couldn't there be multiple instances where you can imagine a Hawke who made a decision, but who may have not been, in fact Pro-Mage/Pro-Templar, etc.? 

i realize such a recognition by you would sound great... but by someone else who made the same decision for different reasons, having Hawke as a Battle Cry for the Mages might be cringe-inducing. While your Universe gets supported, their's becomes diminished. Can you see where things like that might be tricky to deal with?

Would it matter why Hawke supported the mages?  Will the mages know "Oh, Hawke just did that to get in bed with Anders"?  Won't they just see the reality of "Hawke supported the mages"?  Motivations don't matter when the end result is "Hawke supported the mages".

[Little Princess Peach]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Tali-vas-normandy wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

^

What choices, specifically, from DA2 would you like to see carried over? And what would be a satisfying way to have them carried over for you, personally?

I hope I don't get yelled at but this is how I feel about things.

I would like the ackowlagement that my Hawke was pro mage, all the way from start to finish (mainly because she was a mage) for example, when we see mages fighting maybe some of them can use Hawkes name as a Battle cry or somthing.

The side quests helping the wardens, I want to see if  Stopping those Nobles that escaped Amaranthine were punished, maybe the new pc can find a note if she went to Denerim, saying We managed to sort out the situation the nobles will be charged so on and so forth.

the Battle with the Arashock, I would like that to be ackowlaged, if he said we will return have a small group of Quanari invade a town, if he said we will not  come back have someone sign a peace form.

also this is origins related but If my warden was nice to the mages and helped the Tower I would want someone somehwere to go hey, the warden helped the mages in ferelden.

Romances, If I romanced Anders I would like a reference a diary or a codex or somthing, I want that feeling that my old pc was in the Dragon age universe, even if we can't pla Hawke and the warden again I personally would love to have them intergrated in the world, not just brushed aside like yesterdays news.

so I don't care how small the quest if it was related to the wardens and we have a warden in the new group of nutjobs then please let them say somthing about it, for example my warden met the dalish my warden killed a giant dragon, my hawke was a mage who helped the wardens, she went into the deep roads and caused all sort of hell.

the list just goes on but this is what I would like to see.

not juyst some random oh yeah he/she exited the end, most of the gamers spent alot of hours with Hawke and the warden, and all those side quests and main quests are just going to waste.

I see. 

In regards to your first suggestion, about how you would like the game to reference how you played a Pro-Mage Hawke... is it not possible that Hawke may have supported the Mages throughout DA2 and not been pro-Mage? For instance, what if Hawke was trying to protect his sister? Or impress LI Anders? Or just really tick off Fenris? Couldn't there be multiple instances where you can imagine a Hawke who made a decision, but who may have not been, in fact Pro-Mage/Pro-Templar, etc.? 

i realize such a recognition by you would sound great... but by someone else who made the same decision for different reasons, having Hawke as a Battle Cry for the Mages might be cringe-inducing. While your Universe gets supported, their's becomes diminished. Can you see where things like that might be tricky to deal with?

I see you're point, and I do understand that people play diffrent ways, but still the idea that our old pc's are just yesterdays news after spending hours on them just urks me a tad, I like to think that all the DA games are just one big hudge game instead of little ones I guess.