895 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

robertthebard wrote...


Except that, this is exactly what's happening.  One story is being told over multiple games.

Not at all.  You're completely inventing that.  Nothing about DA2's design requires that the events in DAO happened in the same reality.  In fact, many aspects of DA2's design suggest the opposite.

In all actuality though, wouldn't it be better for people that want to remove the save import to ignore it instead, using your own logic?  Instead, it's "well, I want the story to go this way, so they should change the game to suit me".  So one "faction's" opinion is more important than the other "faction's"?  I mean, quite literally, that you can assume that it's not one coherent story, and your problem goes away, right?

No. Because each game's design is still being constrained by the need to accommodate all the different outcomes in the future game.

I'm not saying that having each game stand alone has intrinsic value.  There's nothing inherently better about having a stand-alone story versus having linked stories.  But having them be stand-alone stories has instrumental value, as it allows better game design within each game.  But if we don't get that better game design (because the game is still being designed around a save import) then there's no point.

If this comes out as way snarky, it's not intended to.  My position is to simply maintain the status quo, and to improve on the system that's in place, instead of kicking it to the curb because some people don't like it, or think it doesn't matter.  We were told going in that this was the story of Thedas, hence we don't have the same protagonist every time.

Then we should at least have the same setting every time.  But we don't.  The radical changes to game mechanics between titles ensures that.

So I can't quit presuming that this is one long story told over multiple games, because that's what I was led to believe it was.

You just claimed that you're required to accept something as true because you were told it was true.

Think about that for a moment.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I'd also like to mention that some of us play each game several times. I've played through each section of DAO enough times that I've seen most of the outcomes. As a result, I don't have a fixed canon in my head of what happened in DAO. Lots of different things could have happened. I largely relied on DA2 to tell me about the events of DAO wherever they were relevant, because I don't strictly remember which things happened on the particular playthrough I happened to import, assuming I even imported one (I suspect I did, but I honestly don't remember).

[robertthebard]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

robertthebard wrote...


Except that, this is exactly what's happening.  One story is being told over multiple games.

Not at all.  You're completely inventing that.  Nothing about DA2's design requires that the events in DAO happened in the same reality.  In fact, many aspects of DA2's design suggest the opposite.

In all actuality though, wouldn't it be better for people that want to remove the save import to ignore it instead, using your own logic?  Instead, it's "well, I want the story to go this way, so they should change the game to suit me".  So one "faction's" opinion is more important than the other "faction's"?  I mean, quite literally, that you can assume that it's not one coherent story, and your problem goes away, right?

No. Because each game's design is still being constrained by the need to accommodate all the different outcomes in the future game.

I'm not saying that having each game stand alone has intrinsic value.  There's nothing inherently better about having a stand-alone story versus having linked stories.  But having them be stand-alone stories has instrumental value, as it allows better game design within each game.  But if we don't get that better game design (because the game is still being designed around a save import) then there's no point.

If this comes out as way snarky, it's not intended to.  My position is to simply maintain the status quo, and to improve on the system that's in place, instead of kicking it to the curb because some people don't like it, or think it doesn't matter.  We were told going in that this was the story of Thedas, hence we don't have the same protagonist every time.

Then we should at least have the same setting every time.  But we don't.  The radical changes to game mechanics between titles ensures that.

So I can't quit presuming that this is one long story told over multiple games, because that's what I was led to believe it was.

You just claimed that you're required to accept something as true because you were told it was true.

Think about that for a moment.

There's really not much to think about, it was stated by the Lead Writer, somewhere in the DA 2 threads, but I don't have a clue, or the inclination to go looking.  One or more of the "we should have the same protagonist" threads though.  I kind of feel bad though that you feel it's the obligation of people that want to maintain the status quo that we should just ignore the big picture to look at the little pictures, but you, who are unhappy, should be pandered to.

[Sylvius the Mad]

What the author intends is irrelevant. All that matters is what's actually in the game.

[Fast Jimmy]

There's really not much to think about, it was stated by the Lead Writer, somewhere in the DA 2 threads, but I don't have a clue, or the inclination to go looking.  One or more of the "we should have the same protagonist" threads though.  I kind of feel bad though that you feel it's the obligation of people that want to maintain the status quo that we should just ignore the big picture to look at the little pictures, but you, who are unhappy, should be pandered to.

It is not a matter of being pandered to. It is a matter of the narrative structure of the games suffering so that those who enjoy the Save Import can be pandered to.

The status quo is not something that has any inherent positive value if the status quo is bad.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 03 mai 2013 - 08:45 .

[Il Divo]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

There's really not much to think about, it was stated by the Lead Writer, somewhere in the DA 2 threads, but I don't have a clue, or the inclination to go looking.  One or more of the "we should have the same protagonist" threads though.  I kind of feel bad though that you feel it's the obligation of people that want to maintain the status quo that we should just ignore the big picture to look at the little pictures, but you, who are unhappy, should be pandered to.

It is not a matter of being pandered to. It is a matter of the narrative structure of the games suffering so that those who enjoy the Save Import can be pandered to.

The status quo is not something that has any inherent positive value if the status quo is bad.

Pretty much this.

[The Jonai]

I'm for save imports, it lets me know that my choices and actions aren't just a one time thing. It helps me get immersed into the world and makes it feel alive. I think it would also help with the creative process, because thinking of new ideas is hard enough, but playing off old was is a little easier, and it can give the player a more satisfying experience. Like if you helped Varric keep the corrupted crytal piece, that could give the creators a chance to do something super awesome later on down the road.
Now they didn't do as good with the import effects like they did with the Mass Effects in my opinion.

[Realmzmaster]

The Jonai wrote...

I'm for save imports, it lets me know that my choices and actions aren't just a one time thing. It helps me get immersed into the world and makes it feel alive. I think it would also help with the creative process, because thinking of new ideas is hard enough, but playing off old was is a little easier, and it can give the player a more satisfying experience. Like if you helped Varric keep the corrupted crytal piece, that could give the creators a chance to do something super awesome later on down the road.
Now they didn't do as good with the import effects like they did with the Mass Effects in my opinion.

Varric and the idol at best can only be a sidequest for people who let Varric keep it. The only way to make it super important or awesome is if Bioware made it canon which then invalidates the choice of people who did not let him keep it.

Nice to see someone keepsbrining this thread back to life no matter how many times we try to kill it.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 12 juillet 2013 - 01:51 .

[embraceternity]

BioWare's save imports is what first attracted me to their games, along with the ability to choose what your character says, which can change the outcome of the game. (I've always been a huge sucker for CYOA storylines.) Getting rid of the save import would break my heart. I think it's a genius concept for RPG games, I wish even more games would allow this option. It makes the game feel more personal to me, and makes me feel more attached to the events that occur. It makes the story my story. Such and such happened in DA:O, because I had this happen in DA2, etc.

If players don't want to use the save import, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Each gamer plays a game for their own reason. But one of my absolute favorite things about BioWare games is that my choices in their games matter. Not only in each game, but for it's entire franchise. I can't even tell you how excited I am for DA:I. I've made play throughs that are entirely different from each other, and I can't wait to see each of their outcomes because of this in the series next installment.

[dekkerd]

The Jonai wrote...

I'm for save imports, it lets me know that my choices and actions aren't just a one time thing. It helps me get immersed into the world and makes it feel alive. I think it would also help with the creative process, because thinking of new ideas is hard enough, but playing off old was is a little easier, and it can give the player a more satisfying experience. Like if you helped Varric keep the corrupted crytal piece, that could give the creators a chance to do something super awesome later on down the road.
Now they didn't do as good with the import effects like they did with the Mass Effects in my opinion.

or you could assume the idol fragment was consumed to upgrade Bianca. 

With the generational import issue, my guess is a import solution via ea/origins account. Plot flags only, no appearance settings as they are not needed. 

Ok, so who's going to zombify a toolset thread? We're due...

Modifié par dekkerd, 12 juillet 2013 - 07:03 .

[Durhon]

I'd rather keep the save import system.

[Hulk Hsieh]

Would my choices in DA:O be gone if EA closed Bioware and there wasn't DA2 and there won't be DAI? No. They are still my choices I enjoyed in DA:O.

Import or not, they can't rob my experience with DA:O.

[Secretlyapotato]

I'll be okay with this so long as the writers agree to make every single decision I personally made canon.

Modifié par Secretlyapotato, 13 juillet 2013 - 03:59 .

[addiction21]

1. Other then Tuchanka I haven't been happy with the imports overall.

2. It has created this idea in so many people that every possible choice, every possible outcome of those choices need to be shown to the point that any one could take up a game and the temper tantrums that have resulted because it has not happened.

All it has done is create these unrealistic expectations that every choice and every imaginable outcome MUST be represented or BioWare doesn't respect the choices players could make. That they ignore those choices. That they hate their fans and didn't give them the toy they wanted.

[dduane o]

please do not remove. this keeps the continuity of the games for each player unique. sure not every choices are very important even in life, miniscule detail in life is easily forgotten but important ones are remembered.

what's important to save from DA:O is how the blight was stopped, the sacrifice the Warden had to give, flemeth, the dwarven king problem, the mages, the alienage and the werewolves problem. the main missions are the priority to think about for DA:O.

DA 2 is how the mage/Templar started and what choice was given in the end.

of course there are many but just remember the most important one. the import make tyre storytelling of this game unique! even TES doesn't have this so please just work around this unique features of your game.

[agrael92]

scyphozoa wrote...

Eh, years ago, I would have championed this feature. The truth is, Bioware is bad at divergence and reactivity. They have lots of small tonal changes, cameos and references, but not the important, sweeping divergence that I want and expect. I want entire maps, levels, story arcs and characters to be unique to my choices. If I go left, I don't want to see anything that is available right. If I go right, I want something distinctly different from left.

But Bioware doesn't do this. They give you about 95% of the same game and 5% of divergence. With what I've seen from DAO>DOA>DA2, and ME1-3, I can confidently say, the save import is a disappointing feature. It is more spectacle than substance. Customers like it more for the potential that they can dream up in their imaginations than for what the devs actually put into the game. The potential is limitless, the reality is tremendously limited, and probably not worth it.

Even as limited as it is I still enjoy this feature. Just the little acknowledgments that my choices existed are enough to make it worthy for me. As has been said, it makes the world feel alive and the story more personal. Moreover, for me a game is mainly about the first playtrhough and maybe I care more about the illusion of choice than choice itself. I don't need to know that DA2 has very little different outcomes until I stumble on it on the forums days after I've finished it, or decide to play the game a second time a month later. Bioware is good at illusion and the save imports help.

[MarchoftheVolus]

Keep it. Player decisions should carry over.

[Eveangaline]

I thought this was going to be a thread about a way to make your choices known even if you switched systems/have bugged epilogues to old saves.

I'm disappointed.

[AKALM0um3n]

Those are vaild points... IMO they add to my type of history my influnce on the lore... But in actual news Bioware has introduced the Keep which is and in game hub and a downloadable app you can use to customize and rearrange the canon of your three stories in areas that might seem incoherent connecting them your own way... Which is great... A huge complaint people have with bioware today is that if people don't like an asspect of their game they remove it instead of improve on it... So I think it's great that their trying to let us control our history... And this is also helpful in that it allows the writers more freedom in their writting... they can write the story and proggression how they want... but then along the way present threads that connect to the previous storues and if you want to change it in to a different thread the thread is flexible enough to change your progress subtly... Now the first pasrt of this is what BW told the 2nd is my own hopeful speculation... one major thing I'm not sure about that home one of Bioware can answer... I'm hoping that the keep doesn't aollow me to mess to much to the point where I can change entire events in past games just to suit my perfect games... So will you implmement restrictions on it or will you warn us if we are changing the core of our past experince?

[Iron Star]

Dat necro.