Selene Moonsong wrote...
By excluding imports and enforcing a specific cannon, you render the games played by a great number of people wasted effort. So I highly disagree with this idea.
Besides, these would be variables based on player events reduced to T/F (True/False) values, not direct imports of a load of data for every detail of conversational choices and character models.
Variety is the spice of life. One set cannon renders a game dull and not worth replaying.
Confused-Shepard wrote...
Bioware simply lacks the cojones to have proper consequences based on choices made in your previous games. They lost or never had in the first place the expertise or desire to even do something like this. Better they remove the import nonsense and have a singular string narrative peppered with choices that give IMMEDIATE consequences as opposed to in the next game.
Since Mass Effect 2 I have been saying this.
David Gaider wrote...
There are indeed certain things that would be made much easier, story-wise, by simply establishing canon and proceeding from there. No doubt about that. It's the reason the vast majority of games don't have such continuuity between games, and arrange matters so that such continuuity wouldn't even be relevant.
Thing is, you'd lose something too. Yes, perhaps we'll never be able to take this to the ultimate point everyone imagines this to be-- where all those decisions branch out until they create a player's own personal storyline, completely divergent from everyone's else's and where every decision has complete relevance between games... but is that really necessary? Even if there are only select points of influence, that's really no different than in a single game itself. It's a question of maintaining the illusion.
Maybe someone feels that illusion hasn't been kept, and can't be kept unless their every decision is kept sacrosanct. And they feel that, if we can't do it, we shouldn't even try. I get that, and there are certainly days when I feel exactly the same myself. But there are also those for whom the illusion makes the world and the story so much more theirs, and that's not something they're apt to get anywhere else. They don't necessarily want to be told a story so much as they want to be part of it. Isn't that the ideal, here?
Ultimately, regardless of the arguments, it's a trigger that Dragon Age has already pulled. I suppose one could argue we could un-pull it, as we've done with some other pretty fundamental points of design... but I'd say this goes beyond game mechanics and is more of a promise which would be pretty hard to unmake now.
There are plans for how we're going to do the import thing, which I'm not at liberty to discuss. All I'll say is that the goal is to do it better... not to scrap it.
Modifié par iakus, 06 octobre 2012 - 03:53 .
daffl5 wrote...
Selene Moonsong wrote...
By excluding imports and enforcing a specific cannon, you render the games played by a great number of people wasted effort. So I highly disagree with this idea.
Besides, these would be variables based on player events reduced to T/F (True/False) values, not direct imports of a load of data for every detail of conversational choices and character models.
Variety is the spice of life. One set cannon renders a game dull and not worth replaying.
^This^
David Gaider wrote...
There are indeed certain things that would be made much easier, story-wise, by simply establishing canon and proceeding from there. No doubt about that. It's the reason the vast majority of games don't have such continuuity between games, and arrange matters so that such continuuity wouldn't even be relevant.
Thing is, you'd lose something too. Yes, perhaps we'll never be able to take this to the ultimate point everyone imagines this to be-- where all those decisions branch out until they create a player's own personal storyline, completely divergent from everyone's else's and where every decision has complete relevance between games... but is that really necessary? Even if there are only select points of influence, that's really no different than in a single game itself. It's a question of maintaining the illusion.
Maybe someone feels that illusion hasn't been kept, and can't be kept unless their every decision is kept sacrosanct. And they feel that, if we can't do it, we shouldn't even try. I get that, and there are certainly days when I feel exactly the same myself. But there are also those for whom the illusion makes the world and the story so much more theirs, and that's not something they're apt to get anywhere else. They don't necessarily want to be told a story so much as they want to be part of it. Isn't that the ideal, here?
Ultimately, regardless of the arguments, it's a trigger that Dragon Age has already pulled. I suppose one could argue we could un-pull it, as we've done with some other pretty fundamental points of design... but I'd say this goes beyond game mechanics and is more of a promise which would be pretty hard to unmake now.
There are plans for how we're going to do the import thing, which I'm not at liberty to discuss. All I'll say is that the goal is to do it better... not to scrap it.
Guest_Trista Faux Hawke_*
Guest_Tancred Of The Chantry_*
MillKill wrote...
...For the record: I also enjoy the idea of
an import system and I think that it worked as well as it ever will in
Mass Effect. But there is an enormous opportunity cost associated with
it that I think far outweighs the advantages. ... Yes, there are
benefits to an import system. But ignoring the costs, both absolute and
opportunity, is a recipe for bad decision-making.
Fast Jimmy wrote...
I would be very excited to see if this
import feature is REDUCED, then. LIke, canon is set for 95% of prior
game choices, and only a handful of big (or small) choices will be
carried over. ... reducing all of the clutter, focusing on just a
HANDFUL of choices, creating real, deep content to those choices and
just ignoring all the rest could be something that is sustainable and
doable. And could, hopefully, give the level of detail that many players
set the bar for.
Guest_Hanz54321_*
Modifié par Hanz54321, 06 octobre 2012 - 05:06 .
Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 06 octobre 2012 - 05:07 .
CELL55 wrote...
If we are indeed going to be keeping the save import mechanic, I could stand to see it used less often. It seems like everyone and their mother stopped by from DAO to let Hawke (and thus, us) know seemingly everything that we did in DAO. In case we forgot, apparently. It all seemed too contrived and too frequent. At least in Mass Effect, we were still playing the same character, so it would at least make sense that he bumps into some familiar faces from time to time if they are not actively seeking him out. But Hawke doesn't have any meaningful connection to the Warden (even the Mage Warden. Whoop-de-do, a cousin that they've never met), so it was really kind of jarring for me to run across all of the Warden's old decisions despite there being no discernible reason for Hawke to come across them as well.
Of course, it has been some time since I played DA2, and it could just be my memory making me think that I saw more callbacks than what actually happened.
The Grey Nayr wrote...
Only downside, no matter how good they do Dragon Age 3. the majority will definitely find any excuse to hate it and cling to the easiest place to grab leverage.
Modifié par wrdnshprd, 06 octobre 2012 - 05:32 .
David Gaider wrote...
But there are also those for whom the illusion makes the world and the story so much more theirs, and that's not something they're apt to get anywhere else. They don't necessarily want to be told a story so much as they want to be part of it. Isn't that the ideal, here?
David Gaider wrote...
But there are also those for whom the illusion makes the world and the story so much more theirs, and that's not something they're apt to get anywhere else. They don't necessarily want to be told a story so much as they want to be part of it. Isn't that the ideal, here?
Modifié par wright1978, 06 octobre 2012 - 09:18 .
dragonage.bioware.com/da2/info/faq wrote...
If you imported your Origins playthroughs, you will experience the consequences of the choices you made previously
David Gaider wrote...
What happens [...] will, in fact, pretty much always work out the way we think it should - and that includes bringing characters we like back.
Modifié par JWvonGoethe, 06 octobre 2012 - 10:39 .
deuce985 wrote...
I like how Bioware makes worlds feel more personal to me. Import saves usually end up with minor impact on the universe. Removing them would disconnect that personal feeling for me. However, removing import saves probably means they can make choices that feel like they have major weight behind them. They don't have to make design decisions with multiple variables for future DA games. That's a positive.
This is probably why not many companies allow import saves. I remember even in Witcher, they're so minor you almost don't notice them. But the positive to that is they make a world where choices are felt.
It's hard for me to say which I favor. In a perfect world, I'd take both. But Bioware seems to be great at allowing me to build bonds with my companions and making everything feel like my world. No matter how artificial it feels. So, I guess I do kinda want to see imports stay...
Overall, I'd say removing imports destroys a very large part of the RP aspect in their games for me...that's just me though.
JWvonGoethe wrote...
(List of characters "brought back" in DA2 and DA2 DLC, despite dying as a result of player's decisions in DA:O or expansions:
Anders
Wynne
Justice
Leliana
Zevran
Nathaniel
possibly others)
Modifié par hhh89, 06 octobre 2012 - 11:34 .
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