116 réponses à ce sujet

[TheAgarrar]

I'd rather have Sandal than a tranquil companion. The tranquil would have to have an enchantment component to their combat and Sandal has already proved to be BADASS from previous installments.

[Dirgegun]

 I would like to learn more about the Tranquil in game, but I don't think I would want one as an actual companion. It would be a little unnerving...

...Actually, I think I would play my character being a little paranoid of 'em if there was a Tranquil companion. 

[holdenagincourt]

No thanks. The whole frontal lobotomy thing skeeves me out too much.

[Pedrak]

Suggestion: A mage companion who actually BECOMES a tranquil, if you make a particular choice throughout the game - ex. you have to hand him/her over to the Templars.

[Felya87]

i quite appreciate the idea of know more about the tranquil and having an important character (not necessary a companion) who was made tranquil, but sometimes he have moments where he return normal, or very violent.
maybe his ritual have an imprevist, or a demon/spirit tried to possess him/her during the ritual, and he is stuck in the middle, and our PG can try to help him returning normal, or made him completely tranquil.

It could made an interesting quest or side quest. I like it.

[unbentbuzzkill]

i think having s tranquil companion would be boring.

[Sharn01]

Ausstig wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Tranquils can't fight.

Why?

Is there any reason or do we just never see it. 

I don't see why they can't fight, you don't need emotions for that. 

No emotion means no adrenaline, no adrenaline means you suck in a fight.

[SandiKay0]

An unemotional killing machine would be a little scary we call them sociopaths don't we?

[TCBC_Freak]

Sharn01 wrote...

Ausstig wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Tranquils can't fight.

Why?

Is there any reason or do we just never see it. 

I don't see why they can't fight, you don't need emotions for that. 

No emotion means no adrenaline, no adrenaline means you suck in a fight.

Adrenaline is not needed to fight,  it can just be helpful (and at times harmful) when you fight. Also, it's not tied to emotion. Though you are less likely to have a surge of it without an emotional spur, it isn't needed. If anything I think the lose of their self-preservation instinked would make them very dangerous if ordered to fight someone. But that's neither here-nor-there.

I wouldn't really want one in the "party" but having one around at camp as your secretary or something (if you are Inquisitor this would make a lot of sense as they'd be the only 100% loyal person you could have in that role) it could be done really well.

[marshalleck]

TCBC_Freak wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

Ausstig wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Tranquils can't fight.

Why?

Is there any reason or do we just never see it. 

I don't see why they can't fight, you don't need emotions for that. 

No emotion means no adrenaline, no adrenaline means you suck in a fight.

Adrenaline is not needed to fight,  it can just be helpful (and at times harmful) when you fight. Also, it's not tied to emotion. Though you are less likely to have a surge of it without an emotional spur, it isn't needed. If anything I think the lose of their self-preservation instinked would make them very dangerous if ordered to fight someone. But that's neither here-nor-there.

I wouldn't really want one in the "party" but having one around at camp as your secretary or something (if you are Inquisitor this would make a lot of sense as they'd be the only 100% loyal person you could have in that role) it could be done really well.

To fight you have to have the mental and physical will to resist something or someone, and Tranquil have neither. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 06 octobre 2012 - 07:43 .

[Bfler]

Hm, maybe.
His personal quest could be that you have to help him to revert the process like in case of the mage in Asunder, but without demon. 
If you don't help him he  also tries to revert it, but becomes possessed by a demon.

Modifié par Bfler, 06 octobre 2012 - 07:56 .

[TCBC_Freak]

marshalleck wrote...

TCBC_Freak wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

Ausstig wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Tranquils can't fight.

Why?

Is there any reason or do we just never see it. 

I don't see why they can't fight, you don't need emotions for that. 

No emotion means no adrenaline, no adrenaline means you suck in a fight.

Adrenaline is not needed to fight,  it can just be helpful (and at times harmful) when you fight. Also, it's not tied to emotion. Though you are less likely to have a surge of it without an emotional spur, it isn't needed. If anything I think the lose of their self-preservation instinked would make them very dangerous if ordered to fight someone. But that's neither here-nor-there.

I wouldn't really want one in the "party" but having one around at camp as your secretary or something (if you are Inquisitor this would make a lot of sense as they'd be the only 100% loyal person you could have in that role) it could be done really well.

To fight you have to have the mental and physical will to resist something or someone, and Tranquil have neither. 

That's not really true. To fight you simple have to have the physical means to do so, such as a functioning form, aka body or other medium. This is why robots (pure robots, not AIs; that's a whole different can of worms) are dangerous and so often used in sci-fi as soldier for gready but weak aliens or people. They have all the means to fight and because they are lead by others they have no will of their own and have no self-preservation and thus never stop until they win or are destroyed. The tranquil could be much the same (once again I'd like to note that I'm not saying I'd like this or that I want this, just that there is no reason it could not happen) because are completly loyal and have not self-preservation (think back to Origins, surrounded by demons and death that one tranquil still kept the storage room in order because he wasn't scared or worried).

[marshalleck]

So what you're saying then is a Tranquil would make a good companion in DA3 because robots.

[unbentbuzzkill]

@Sandikayo
they would probably be called psychopathic if they are killing anybody in their path, but what if the divine made a mage tranquil just for the purpose of eliminating certain problem people.

[TCBC_Freak]

marshalleck wrote...

So what you're saying then is a Tranquil would make a good companion in DA3 because robots.

If you completly ignore where I stated plainly that I don't think they should be a companion because of their lack of personality and would not make a good companion, then I guess yes.
They are basically robots and thus just like a droid companion you may know from an older Bioware game they could work in that way.







I'm talking about HK-47 by the way, he had no real free will, he had a self-preservation program but it was overwriten by his service programing. He didn't have adrinaline and yet fought.

Edit: And I am fully aware that HK-47 had a personality, which is why I said I was talking about robots (which have none) and not AI's.

Modifié par TCBC_Freak, 06 octobre 2012 - 09:28 .

[ediskrad327]

no thanks. i don't want a useless wimp just standing there

[Vandicus]

TCBC_Freak wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

So what you're saying then is a Tranquil would make a good companion in DA3 because robots.

If you completly ignore where I stated plainly that I don't think they should be a companion because of their lack of personality and would not make a good companion, then I guess yes.
They are basically robots and thus just like a droid companion you may know from an older Bioware game they could work in that way.







I'm talking about HK-47 by the way, he had no real free will, he had a self-preservation program but it was overwriten by his service programing. He didn't have adrinaline and yet fought.

Edit: And I am fully aware that HK-47 had a personality, which is why I said I was talking about robots (which have none) and not AI's.

Robots in Star Wars are AIs. They have restrictions in their programming to prevent them from becoming evil overlords, but sometimes this programming fails. IG-88 comes to mind.

Tranquils seem far too compliant and slow to react to fight. They don't talk/move fast in reaction to anything, plus they don't seem to go out of their way(to any great extent) to avoid bodily harm.

[Eveangaline]

marshalleck wrote...

So what you're saying then is a Tranquil would make a good companion in DA3 because robots.

I'd like it because you could hear the disempassioned story of their past, completely free from any bias or emotion. And then find out a more, maybe not 'real' story but a more full and complete view of who they used to be by running around talking to people they used to know

[TCBC_Freak]

Vandicus wrote...

TCBC_Freak wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

So what you're saying then is a Tranquil would make a good companion in DA3 because robots.

If you completly ignore where I stated plainly that I don't think they should be a companion because of their lack of personality and would not make a good companion, then I guess yes.
They are basically robots and thus just like a droid companion you may know from an older Bioware game they could work in that way.







I'm talking about HK-47 by the way, he had no real free will, he had a self-preservation program but it was overwriten by his service programing. He didn't have adrinaline and yet fought.

Edit: And I am fully aware that HK-47 had a personality, which is why I said I was talking about robots (which have none) and not AI's.

Robots in Star Wars are AIs. They have restrictions in their programming to prevent them from becoming evil overlords, but sometimes this programming fails. IG-88 comes to mind.

Tranquils seem far too compliant and slow to react to fight. They don't talk/move fast in reaction to anything, plus they don't seem to go out of their way(to any great extent) to avoid bodily harm.

That's what I said? I'm not sure if you are saying what you did just to restate it or because you didn't get that that was what I said and thought I was wrong? If you are "disagreeing" with me only to then restate my point then you make the second person on here who has either not read what I put or just didn't get it.... that or I just lack the ability to communicate well on the internet?

Just cause I like to share knowledge about fake worlds, lol, Star Wars doesn't have robots, it has droids, which is a tradmarked word owned by Lucas Arts. Robots is a word not used in any Star Wars works (not on purpose anyway) because they are very different... mr. Lucas himself has said this many times, droids and robots are different.

Tranquil are robots, which arenot good companion but could still be cool if done right as a standard NPC (like Bodahn and Sandal).
Droids are awesome and make awesome squad members (like HK-47 or R2-D2 would).

[Vandicus]

TCBC_Freak wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

TCBC_Freak wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

So what you're saying then is a Tranquil would make a good companion in DA3 because robots.

If you completly ignore where I stated plainly that I don't think they should be a companion because of their lack of personality and would not make a good companion, then I guess yes.
They are basically robots and thus just like a droid companion you may know from an older Bioware game they could work in that way.







I'm talking about HK-47 by the way, he had no real free will, he had a self-preservation program but it was overwriten by his service programing. He didn't have adrinaline and yet fought.

Edit: And I am fully aware that HK-47 had a personality, which is why I said I was talking about robots (which have none) and not AI's.

Robots in Star Wars are AIs. They have restrictions in their programming to prevent them from becoming evil overlords, but sometimes this programming fails. IG-88 comes to mind.

Tranquils seem far too compliant and slow to react to fight. They don't talk/move fast in reaction to anything, plus they don't seem to go out of their way(to any great extent) to avoid bodily harm.

That's what I said? I'm not sure if you are saying what you did just to restate it or because you didn't get that that was what I said and thought I was wrong? If you are "disagreeing" with me only to then restate my point then you make the second person on here who has either not read what I put or just didn't get it.... that or I just lack the ability to communicate well on the internet?

Just cause I like to share knowledge about fake worlds, lol, Star Wars doesn't have robots, it has droids, which is a tradmarked word owned by Lucas Arts. Robots is a word not used in any Star Wars works (not on purpose anyway) because they are very different... mr. Lucas himself has said this many times, droids and robots are different.

Tranquil are robots, which arenot good companion but could still be cool if done right as a standard NPC (like Bodahn and Sandal).
Droids are awesome and make awesome squad members (like HK-47 or R2-D2 would).

HK-47 and R2-D2 are AIs. You seem to use them as an example of the more mindless sort've droid like the Trade Federation battle droid. Lacking free will isn't the same as not being an AI.

To compile the statements I was addressing, you effectively stated

"Tranquil are basically robots, and therefore are just like HK-47 in terms of how they could be implemented."

Your statements are both inaccurate in comparing these two, and in how you later try to distinguish robots from AIs.

Droid derives from the word android, which basically means they were shaped to look like some species or another. The word android technically means human-like, but in Star Wars the definition is somewhat expanded because of all the various alien races. Not all AIs in Star Wars are droids, nor are all droids AIs. A computer in Star Wars can be an AI(while not being a droid), while a droid in Star Wars could be as simple as the VIs in Mass Effect(though such simplicity is extraordinarly rare because of the relative abundance of heuristic processors).

Droids are a subsection of what a robot is, although in the context of sci-fi this distinction does not really matter a whole lot. A robot can be an AI, which you erronously implied was impossible. This is all ultimately tangential to the flaw in the logic of Tranquils=Star Wars AIs

First off, Tranquils do have free will. They are however abnormally compliant to authority figures and passionless. An AI by comparison can demonstrate a personality like HK-47, but that is not fundamental to free-will or being an AI. HK-47 also has to risk his existence if so ordered. A Tranquil does not. We don't know that the Tranquil operate on a moral system, so logical arguments to persuade them to fight unless they are in immediate danger might not work at all.

[deuce985]

I can acutely say, this might be one of the more uninteresting companions I can think of, IMO...

[marshalleck]

Oh, another HK-47. I hated that character.

[Lasien]

TCBC_Freak wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

TCBC_Freak wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

Ausstig wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Tranquils can't fight.

Why?

Is there any reason or do we just never see it. 

I don't see why they can't fight, you don't need emotions for that. 

No emotion means no adrenaline, no adrenaline means you suck in a fight.

Adrenaline is not needed to fight,  it can just be helpful (and at times harmful) when you fight. Also, it's not tied to emotion. Though you are less likely to have a surge of it without an emotional spur, it isn't needed. If anything I think the lose of their self-preservation instinked would make them very dangerous if ordered to fight someone. But that's neither here-nor-there.

I wouldn't really want one in the "party" but having one around at camp as your secretary or something (if you are Inquisitor this would make a lot of sense as they'd be the only 100% loyal person you could have in that role) it could be done really well.

To fight you have to have the mental and physical will to resist something or someone, and Tranquil have neither. 

That's not really true. To fight you simple have to have the physical means to do so, such as a functioning form, aka body or other medium. This is why robots (pure robots, not AIs; that's a whole different can of worms) are dangerous and so often used in sci-fi as soldier for gready but weak aliens or people. They have all the means to fight and because they are lead by others they have no will of their own and have no self-preservation and thus never stop until they win or are destroyed. The tranquil could be much the same (once again I'd like to note that I'm not saying I'd like this or that I want this, just that there is no reason it could not happen) because are completly loyal and have not self-preservation (think back to Origins, surrounded by demons and death that one tranquil still kept the storage room in order because he wasn't scared or worried).

Aaaah.... no. He stayed in the storage room because it was his and it was familiar. He also did request that you save him, as he would prefer not to cease living. Or something along those lines.

That sounds like a very weak fear (and self-preservation) reaction to me - tranquil have do likes and dislikes. It seems like all the tranquil I've met do have a sort of emotion, they just aren't strong ones, and the tranquil do exactly as they are told - more like a trained animal than a person.

While I think it would be interesting to have a tranquil companion, I don't know how well it would work in-game - unless the writers did something along the lines of an AI trying to understand emotion.

[TCBC_Freak]

Okay, so you didn't read my post I got it.

Because I said, twice........ Tranquil DO NOT equal AI's.

And I was specifically addressing Star Wars, not all of Sci-Fi. You are putting meaning into my post that was not there as well as glossing over my main point... which was...

Tranquil =/= AI, but that doesn't mean they can't fight for some unknown reason.

In fact in my first post that started this I went out of my way to say that a Tranquil and something like HK-47 were very different.

And the word Android means any mechanism designed to function autonomously from human intervention. Technically a Quantum Clock is an Android, as is any thing you can turn on and it performs a task without human intervention. The movie Hugo has an android in it, and it is clock-work. Humanoid means human-like but not human. There are many humanoid androids in fiction, but not all androids are humanoid, nor is the meaning confined to that.

Droid derives from android in the same way that English derives from French, or Spanish derives from Latin. The word Droid as we use it today and as I was using it was invented by Lucas and means any machine with any level of artificial intelligence, from something like a targeting computer all the way up to something that looks and acts like a human like the hunter droids from the expanded universe. Prior to Lucas that word, Droid, was not used in popular culture and had no meaning. In a manner similar to the word decelerate. Which prior to the early 1900's wasn't a word, now it means to actively slow down, by applying revers trust or force and it is a word that is indispensable from aquatic and aeronautical movement.

[Vandicus]

TCBC_Freak wrote...

Okay, so you didn't read my post I got it.

Because I said, twice........ Tranquil DO NOT equal AI's.

And I was specifically addressing Star Wars, not all of Sci-Fi. You are putting meaning into my post that was not there as well as glossing over my main point... which was...

Tranquil =/= AI, but that doesn't mean they can't fight for some unknown reason.

In fact in my first post that started this I went out of my way to say that a Tranquil and something like HK-47 were very different.

And the word Android means any mechanism designed to function autonomously from human intervention. Technically a Quantum Clock is an Android, as is any thing you can turn on and it performs a task without human intervention. The movie Hugo has an android in it, and it is clock-work. Humanoid means human-like but not human. There are many humanoid androids in fiction, but not all androids are humanoid, nor is the meaning confined to that.

Droid derives from android in the same way that English derives from French, or Spanish derives from Latin. The word Droid as we use it today and as I was using it was invented by Lucas and means any machine with any level of artificial intelligence, from something like a targeting computer all the way up to something that looks and acts like a human like the hunter droids from the expanded universe. Prior to Lucas that word, Droid, was not used in popular culture and had no meaning. In a manner similar to the word decelerate. Which prior to the early 1900's wasn't a word, now it means to actively slow down, by applying revers trust or force and it is a word that is indispensable from aquatic and aeronautical movement.

You clearly didn't read your own post.

Your statement that "Tranquil are just like robots, and thus just like HK-47(Hk-47 is an AI)". This reflects a complete lack of understanding as to what an AI is, and what constitutes an AI in sci-fi. AIs do not necessarily have a personality, nor do they necessarily lack one. Tranquil by definition have one. 

Moreover the comparison between Tranquil and HK-47 couldn't be any more wrong. Tranquil have free will. HK-47 does not. HK-47 has a personality. Tranquil do not.

Also before you talk about what an "android" is, I suggest using a dictionary or a quick google search. Droid was in fact originally used simply as an abridgement of droid, but has been generalized since, something else you incorrectly contest.


Additionally you failed to note my explanation for why Tranquil are unlikely to fight. They need a logical and pressing reason to do so. Home being invaded by demons does not constitute a logical and pressing reason to fight to them(shown by example in DA:O). Presenting a Tranquil with a logical and pressing reason to fight would be somewhat difficult to say the least it would seem.

Modifié par Vandicus, 07 octobre 2012 - 04:01 .