226 réponses à ce sujet

[StElmo]

I feel like I'm being pandered to as if I am the biggest basement dwelling, socially challenged, internet fiend piece of crap whenever I see a game that puts skimpy characters into the cast.

This is even worse when the game makes an effort to put voyueristic shots of these characters into the game. Like Miranda's absurd bum shots - seriously what the hell?

DA2, at least, had some very practical armor sets for people like Femhawke and Aveline, if this extends to all of the characters in the next game I will be VERY pleased.

Here's my solution:

If the game manages to NOT embarass the player whenever a non-gamer sees them playing around those characters, then you probably have done a decent enough job.

Obviously sex scenes and other contextually appropriate moments could have nudity or underwear or whatever, but those are easily explained, rather then pandering towards notions of player pervesity.

P.S. you all might say "but miranda and isabella's design suited their character! so its okay" - oh yeah? then bite me, there is no reason the character design couldn't reflect their characters without being skimpy and impractical.

In closing, I think my point is that we have all grown up since the old days and we'd like to see that reflected in DA3.

Modifié par StElmo, 07 octobre 2012 - 08:21 .

[XCelfa]

While I kind of understand where you're coming from, I have to ask: Why are you playing a rated M game in the first place if this kind of content bothers you?

[Darth333]

What about I don't want any non gamer seeing me beheading a npc? I'd feel a lot more embarrassed...

While I found Isabela's outfit ridiculous, out of place and immersion breaking in a game like DA (but found Morrigan's outfit to be fitting), we see bums and boobs every day... I don't see why would anyone over 12 would feel embarrassed...

Give me a break.... the mere fact of having skimpy males or lightly dressed chars is not the problem: it's whether or not it fits with the context.  It also reminds me that some people don't seem to make the difference between mere erotism and porn.

Modifié par Darth333, 06 octobre 2012 - 02:00 .

[XCelfa]

MultiWerar wrote...

XCelfa wrote...

While I kind of understand where you're coming from, I have to ask: Why are you playing a rated M game in the first place if this kind of content bothers you?

HOW ABOUT ACTUAL MATURE CONTENT INTSEAD OF CHILDISH PANDERING!?

Calm down there Kujo.

[SirGladiator]

So long as the option exists to dress the characters to your liking, as existed in DAO and obviously to a much smaller degree in DA2, then the argument is moot. I liked Miranda's outfit, I liked Morrigan's outfit, Isabella's was OK but could've been better. If you don't like somebody's outfit because you feel its too revealing, don't ask for the rest of us to not be able to enjoy the outfits, just ask for the option to dress them more conservatively, to your liking. Certainly in DAO you could literally dress Morrigan up as a member of the chantry, covered from head to toe, if that's your preference. I liked her original, revealing outfit and kept her in it through pretty much all of my playthroughs. Its all a matter of personal taste, thats why DA2's lack of choice was so disappointing to most of us, and that's why in DA3 I imagine we'll have more options again. If you like more revealing, or less revealing, outfits you should be able to find an outfit for each character that is to your liking.

[KainD]

I personally like sexy clothes and robes, and think that's fine and attractive, but don't like sexy armors, and frankly I haven't seen any sexy armors in DA series, so it seems to be fine.

I doubt that DA will ever have something like this: 

Modifié par KainD, 06 octobre 2012 - 02:01 .

[Quicksilver26]

StElmo wrote...

I feel like I'm being pandered to as if I am the biggest basement dwelling, socially challenged, internet fiend piece of crap whenever I see a game that puts skimpy characters into the cast.

This is even worse when the game makes an effort to put voyueristic shots of these characters into the game. Like Miranda's absurd bum shots - seriously what the hell?

DA2, at least, had some very practical armor sets for people like Femhawke and Aveline, if this extends to all of the characters in the next game I will be VERY pleased.

Here's my solution:

If the game manages to NOT embarass the player whenever a non-gamer sees them playing around those characters, then you probably have done a decent enough job.

P.S. you all might say "but miranda and isabella's design suited their character! so its okay" - oh yeah? then bite me, there is no reason the character design couldn't reflect their characters without being skimpy and impractical.

In closing, I think my point is that we have all grown up since the old days and we'd like to see that reflected in DA3.

hear hear thank you very much:wizard:

[StElmo]

XCelfa wrote...

While I kind of understand where you're coming from, I have to ask: Why are you playing a rated M game in the first place if this kind of content bothers you?

Because I am fine with mature content, however, this is not mature, it is juvenile.

If there is nudity, I am fine with that provided it is contextually appropriate and not voyueristic.

However, impractical and skimpy outfit design is exploitive and does not serve the art.

[syllogi]

XCelfa wrote...

While I kind of understand where you're coming from, I have to ask: Why are you playing a rated M game in the first place if this kind of content bothers you?

I file my taxes each year as soon I receive my W-2 form from my employer.  I get to work early most days, to have a little me time before promptly starting work at 9 am.  I sit with my son while he does his homework, even when it's boring as dirt.  I collect coupons, and wait for sales to shop for many items for my home.

Maturity is so sexy.

[StElmo]

MultiWerar wrote...

XCelfa wrote...

While I kind of understand where you're coming from, I have to ask: Why are you playing a rated M game in the first place if this kind of content bothers you?

HOW ABOUT ACTUAL MATURE CONTENT INTSEAD OF CHILDISH PANDERING!?

Pretty much .

[wsandista]

Ahh this argument again.

Time to get the popcorn.

[StElmo]

Darth333 wrote...

What about I don't want any non gamer seeing me beheading a npc? I'd feel a lot more embarrassed...

If it was contextually appropriate and I could explain to the viewer what was happening and why, then I would have no problem with this.

If it was needless violence I had no control over, then I would be embarassed too, yes.

Darth333 wrote...
While I found Isabela's outfit ridiculous, out of place and immersion breaking in a game like DA (but found Morrigan's outfit to be fitting), we see bums and boobs every day... I don't see why would anyone over 12 would feel embarrassed...

If it makes no sense, then it is embarassing because its clear pandering to base sex appeal.

Modifié par StElmo, 06 octobre 2012 - 02:09 .

[Tootles FTW]

Miranda's outfit wasn't the problem, it was the gratuitous and multiple camera angles. I can appreciate that women look sexy in skintight outfits, but don't expect me to suspend my belief as far as practicality is concerned only to continuously spoon-feed me **** shots like I'm a 12-year old boy.

Isabela having no pants was stupid...but so were the elves not having shoes. DA2 didn't particularly linger on either, though, and there's the big difference between the Bioware teams.

[Darth333]

If it makes no sense, then it is embarassing because its clear pandering to base sex appeal.

You are confused as to the cause and the effect: as to the effect, it is not embarassing. It is out of context. This also doesn't mean that the cause is because it panders to sex appeal (sex appeal is also not necessarily ridiculous and it is not the sex appeal I was referring to anyway...besides I didn't find her outfit sex appealing anyway, just stupid looking given the context).

It is not because it is pandering to sex appeal that it makes no sense to me (to me it made no sense because of the how everyone else around was dressed...and I don't see why Isabella would go to into the heat of the battle with a cotton like top, highboots, no pants, no armor whatsoever while armed with two daggers...while my char had heavy armor and was still getting hurt...  (i.e. the pandering to sex appeal is not the reason or cause why it makes no sense. If she'd be wearing a full burka it would be just as unfitting.)

... or does mere pandering to sex appeal = embarassing for you?

Modifié par Darth333, 06 octobre 2012 - 02:32 .

[The Hierophant]

Meh the topic should be about the practicality of a companion's outfit in relation to their combat role, but it has been discussed to death already.

[Darth333]

The Hierophant wrote...

Meh the topic should be about the practicality of a companion's outfit in relation to their combat role, but it has been discussed to death already.

This!

[Shadow Fox]

KainD wrote...

I personally like sexy clothes and robes, and think that's fine and attractive, but don't like sexy armors, and frankly I haven't seen any sexy armors in DA series, so it seems to be fine.

I doubt that DA will ever have something like this: 

...*wants*

[XCelfa]

I'd prefer not to be patronized for asking an honest question. Really isn't necessary and it seems like my point was dodged anyway.

It's a lot more obvious as a female when a product is pandering to a male demographic; I understand and agree with that completely. The blatant t+a shots are a selling point and it's unfortunate and yes, there should be less of it.

However. The "skimpy outfits"... I'm on the fence.

If there's a woman with ample cleavage in a low-cut shirt at the table next to you at dinner, do you go over to her table and ask her to put on something more reasonable? No. Because it's her personal choice. There's nothing illegal about having boobs up to your chin and if you're offended, well, tough ******. Maybe if a woman's body [or a man's, for that matter] offends you so much, maybe you shouldn't go out to dinner anymore.

Characters in a video game, regardless of being in a video game, are characters. Written as people. Isabela and Miranda were penned with free will and should wear whatever their personality dictates.

[Joy Divison]

I find it amusing when people who have never seen a battlefield let alone been on one talk about military practicality.

After you're done telling Bioware they're doing it wrong, why don't you talk to these guys...

Modifié par Joy Divison, 06 octobre 2012 - 03:02 .

[AsheraII]

What's wrong with a variety of styles being available to all character levels and for all quality levels?
Ideally, some built-in system to customize your armor to one of several styles available from some in-game tailors (I smell DLC opportunities!)
Yes, it'll mean quite a bit more work for the artists. But, it'd also mean that those who like revealing outfits have it their way, while those who prefer something more subtle or conservative can have it their way as well. And let's not forget all the shades inbetween! Or, for as far as I care: some game-wide setting in your preferences. though that would take out the DLC opportunity.

[XCelfa]

AsheraII wrote...

What's wrong with a variety of styles being available to all character levels and for all quality levels?
Ideally, some built-in system to customize your armor to one of several styles available from some in-game tailors (I smell DLC opportunities!)
Yes, it'll mean quite a bit more work for the artists. But, it'd also mean that those who like revealing outfits have it their way, while those who prefer something more subtle or conservative can have it their way as well. And let's not forget all the shades inbetween! Or, for as far as I care: some game-wide setting in your preferences. though that would take out the DLC opportunity.

In addition to artist difficulty, probably because a fictional setting is a microcosm. In real life, you can't change someone's clothes for them when you don't like what they're wearing. [And while I'm saying this, I'm pretty sure there's a character costume customization in the works anyway, thereby making this argument unnecessary in the first place]

I don't get what's so taboo about any of the outfits mentioned. I'm shocked that there was no mention of Jack's outfit, being that it's essentially a harness to contain her nipples. Is it because she's not overtly sexualized? 

It kind of boils down to this: is it their outfit or their sexuality that you're uncomfortable with?

[fighterchick]

I'd just be happy if my mage could put some damn pants on and still have decent armor.

[marshalleck]

MultiWerar wrote...

XCelfa wrote...

While I kind of understand where you're coming from, I have to ask: Why are you playing a rated M game in the first place if this kind of content bothers you?

HOW ABOUT ACTUAL MATURE CONTENT INTSEAD OF CHILDISH PANDERING!?

Specific example...?