226 réponses à ce sujet

[N147]

XCelfa wrote...

Like I said earlier:

I don't get what's so taboo about any of the outfits mentioned. I'm shocked that there was no mention of Jack's outfit, being that it's essentially a harness to contain her nipples. Is it because she's not overtly sexualized?

It kind of boils down to this: is it their outfit or their sexuality that you're uncomfortable with?

In my experience, people love to write off Isabela as a floozy but that is in fact completely sexist. 

I think it was because she wasn't that attractive physically AND emotionally. I could be wrong though.

[Joy Divison]

The Hierophant wrote...

Joy Divison wrote...

I find it amusing when people who have never seen a battlefield let alone been on one talk about military practicality.

I don't know about that Joy Division. I think it's mostly an issue of common sense like steel swords cut through cloth/skin, but dent steel armor or rarely pierce through it(unless attacking joints).

After you're done telling Bioware they're doing it wrong, why don't you talk to these guys...

Would they be able to stop a small platoon of goth/maximilian armored knights?

Well as the thread has degraded into the usual objectification vs. idealization semantics when it comes to the sexual element in videogames I doubt typing a response will be worthwhile.

Needless to say, yes, "common sense" is highly overrated as an adaquate explanation for anything in the humanities.  Much more warriors/soldiers in the history of warfare battled without encasing themselves in armor and I don't care what Victor Davis Hanson says, the armies of Europeans who have been the most heavily reliant on heavily armored warriors have a very spotty record in battle against "less practical" non-Europeans who wore much less armor.

Modifié par Joy Divison, 06 octobre 2012 - 04:40 .

[AlienWolf728]

 

[daaaav]

But on a serious note, I essentially agree with the OP. Historically, female characters in games would be dressed and shot in outrageous strips of cloth with ridiculous camera angles for NO OTHER REASON than to provide fan service for male gamers. These characters are forced to have an appearance that makes no sense for their character and often weren't characterized at all.

This is not the case for a character like Isabella or Jack who are dressed in a way that makes sense for their personalities.

[syllogi]

MultiWerar wrote...

daaaav wrote...

Ugh...

Another crusader for practical this and sensible that.

Your right...the game should be Dragon Age: The Chantry Tax Audit, or Dragon Age: The Darkspawn Housing Program.

You know what? I'm going to abandon my gimmick posting for a minute to address this.

I'm tired of Bioware's escalation into cartoonish sexualization to pander to nerds. **** like Isabella, Miranda's outfit, EDI, Ashley. It's stupid and embarrassing. Especially for a company that likes to pass itself off as a master of storytelling and equality.

It is embarrassing, and frankly, if someone enjoys Bioware's past work, and wants their future games to succeed, they'd be better off just buying some Gor novels to get their thrills rather than asking for the basest fanservice.  People can claim that sex sells, but a majority of those who are buying porn don't want or need it in their video games.  Comic books nowadays, one of the last bastions of good old fashioned sexism for the sake of fanservice, sell 30 to 50 thousand copies a month, for a popular title.  Those kind of sales would be disastrous in the gaming industry.  Somehow, the skintight spandex costumes and gravity defying bodies of comic book women are not selling like hotcakes.  If anything, they alienate potential readers, who otherwise might pick up comics, or start reading them again as adults.  But people stay away, at least partially because they don't find the "sexiness" present in modern comics appealing.  It's not something that the industry will admit or acknowledge, generally, but these are the facts.  Comic book movies, which don't portray the same level of sexuality, have reached an all time height in popularity, but DC and Marvel are struggling more and more each year to reinvent themselves to try to reach new readers.  Until they understand why catering to a small niche market doesn't work, they'll continue to lose.  Gaming companies like Bioware should take notes, especially after ME2 and 3, where the portrayal of the sexuality of female characters (other than Female Shepard) was generally noted as negatives for both games.

Modifié par syllogi, 06 octobre 2012 - 04:48 .

[burning salaradile]

It should make sense, whatever it is. I don't really take issue with Isabella (presumably armor doesn't suit her, she can move faster, etc. so it wouldn't be more practical for her to have armor), but Samara's and Miranda's outfits in ME bugged me. Even Jack, who is somewhat characterized to dress like she does, doesn't really make sense; how is she going to protect herself from all those deadly guns? Also, the high heels in combat uniforms really, really bugged me. I expect to see none of them in the next DA installment.

[Joy Divison]

burning salaradile wrote...
 Even Jack, who is somewhat characterized to dress like she does, doesn't really make sense; how is she going to protect herself from all those deadly guns?

Err...you protect yourself from guns by not being in the line of fire.  Jack's outfit made the *most* sense of anyone in ME2.

[Gabey5]

You should be able to equip your characters with whatever you want

[XCelfa]

Revenant24 wrote...

XCelfa wrote...

Like I said earlier:

I don't get what's so taboo about any of the outfits mentioned. I'm shocked that there was no mention of Jack's outfit, being that it's essentially a harness to contain her nipples. Is it because she's not overtly sexualized?

It kind of boils down to this: is it their outfit or their sexuality that you're uncomfortable with?

In my experience, people love to write off Isabela as a floozy but that is in fact completely sexist. 

I think it was because she wasn't that attractive physically AND emotionally. I could be wrong though.

That's your opinion, which I don't happen to share. If she had been an f/f romance option, I'd have been aboard that train in half a heartbeat.

But I digress.

And Jack doesn't need "armor"; she's a biotic- and a massively powerful one, at that.

[daaaav]

Gabey5 wrote...

You should be able to equip your characters with whatever you want

For the Player Character I agree.

I'm not sure about companion characters though. Sure, some folks might find it amusing to dress a character like Aveline in one of Isabella's outfits but you run into the same old problem. Objectification without characterisation. I would at least expect some form of protest.

Modifié par daaaav, 06 octobre 2012 - 04:59 .

[HiroVoid]

What if the armor gives Aveline a good boost in dexterity which is what you are specializing her in.

[XCelfa]

HiroVoid wrote...

What if the armor gives Aveline a good boost in dexterity which is what you are specializing her in.

Are you ignoring the fact that Aveline is a warrior for the sake of argument?

:| This just seems like it's becoming a "let me figure out a cover-up for putting a character in an outfit that does not match their characterization" race

[Joy Divison]

OK, a *really* good boost in dexterity

Modifié par Joy Divison, 06 octobre 2012 - 05:06 .

[The Hierophant]

Joy Divison wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Joy Divison wrote...

I find it amusing when people who have never seen a battlefield let alone been on one talk about military practicality.

I don't know about that Joy Division. I think it's mostly an issue of common sense like steel swords cut through cloth/skin, but dent steel armor or rarely pierce through it(unless attacking joints).

After you're done telling Bioware they're doing it wrong, why don't you talk to these guys...

Would they be able to stop a small platoon of goth/maximilian armored knights?

Well as the thread has degraded into the usual objectification vs. idealization semantics when it comes to the sexual element in videogames I doubt typing a response will be worthwhile.

Needless to say, yes, "common sense" is highly overrated as an adaquate explanation for anything in the humanities.  Much more warriors/soldiers in the history of warfare battled without encasing themselves in armor and I don't care what Victor Davis Hanson says, the armies of Europeans who have been the most heavily reliant on heavily armored warriors have a very spotty record in battle against "less practical" non-Europeans who wore much less armor.

The thread is a trainwreck in the making(oops too late).  Also If you're talking about guerilla tactics then i'll cry "not fair!" because they're super effective regardless of technological improvements.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 06 octobre 2012 - 05:07 .

[Joy Divison]

The Hierophant wrote...

Joy Divison wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Joy Divison wrote...

I find it amusing when people who have never seen a battlefield let alone been on one talk about military practicality.

I don't know about that Joy Division. I think it's mostly an issue of common sense like steel swords cut through cloth/skin, but dent steel armor or rarely pierce through it(unless attacking joints).

After you're done telling Bioware they're doing it wrong, why don't you talk to these guys...

Would they be able to stop a small platoon of goth/maximilian armored knights?

Well as the thread has degraded into the usual objectification vs. idealization semantics when it comes to the sexual element in videogames I doubt typing a response will be worthwhile.

Needless to say, yes, "common sense" is highly overrated as an adaquate explanation for anything in the humanities.  Much more warriors/soldiers in the history of warfare battled without encasing themselves in armor and I don't care what Victor Davis Hanson says, the armies of Europeans who have been the most heavily reliant on heavily armored warriors have a very spotty record in battle against "less practical" non-Europeans who wore much less armor.

The thread is a trainwreck in the making(oops too late).  Also If you're talking about guerilla tactics then i'll cry "not fair!" because they're super effective regardless of technological improvement.

Guerilla tactics are only part of it.  Armor really only works when you can force the enemy to fight on your terms at a specific time and place.  Lightly armored Parthians, Huns, Mongols, Arabs, Berbers, et al. have defeated numerous heavily armored European armies by fighting (mostly) "fair'.

[HiroVoid]

XCelfa wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

What if the armor gives Aveline a good boost in dexterity which is what you are specializing her in.

Are you ignoring the fact that Aveline is a warrior for the sake of argument?

:| This just seems like it's becoming a "let me figure out a cover-up for putting a character in an outfit that does not match their characterization" race

Next thing you'll be telling me I shouldn't have put Morrigan in heavy armor.

[XCelfa]

HiroVoid wrote...

XCelfa wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

What if the armor gives Aveline a good boost in dexterity which is what you are specializing her in.

Are you ignoring the fact that Aveline is a warrior for the sake of argument?

:| This just seems like it's becoming a "let me figure out a cover-up for putting a character in an outfit that does not match their characterization" race

Next thing you'll be telling me I shouldn't have put Morrigan in heavy armor.

Now you're just trolling. And I'm going to bed.
Thanks for the chuckles~

[daaaav]

HiroVoid wrote...

XCelfa wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

What if the armor gives Aveline a good boost in dexterity which is what you are specializing her in.

Are you ignoring the fact that Aveline is a warrior for the sake of argument?

:| This just seems like it's becoming a "let me figure out a cover-up for putting a character in an outfit that does not match their characterization" race

Next thing you'll be telling me I shouldn't have put Morrigan in heavy armor.

I'm not entirely sure what your point is... but if you want Bioware to craft complex characters, then yes, you would expect those characters to care how they look. The same as we do.

[The Hierophant]

Joy Divison wrote...

Guerilla tactics are only part of it.  Armor really only works when you can force the enemy to fight on your terms at a specific time and place.  Lightly armored Parthians, Huns, Mongols, Arabs, Berbers, et al. have defeated numerous heavily armored European armies by fighting (mostly) "fair'.

"Not fair!" all of them have calvary that easily surpass most Medieval arm... I give up you wi... nope as long as there is "Deadliest Warrior" which invalidates unique tactics employed by combatants for cheesy 1 on 1 duels i win. <delusional>

Modifié par The Hierophant, 06 octobre 2012 - 06:09 .

[daaaav]

And I should add that whilst it may make sense to give Morrigan plate or Aveline "Isabella's dex" gear from purely a combat game play perspective, Bioware games encompass more than just combat mechanics. For many, the characters are just as important.

[Menagra]

I just wish there was a "deny" option. Like it's assumed every male shepard was at least tempted to check out miranda's ass (besides the ridiculous ass shots). Ugh. One of my male shepards loved jack and therefore HATED miranda. He wouldn't have checked out her ass. He would have puked a little in his mouth at the thought of anything intimate with the "cheerleader". But one of my female shepards on the other hand...she would have been drooling looking at that thing.

It's called Role Playing. It's the first two words in RPG.

[Bfler]

KainD wrote...

I personally like sexy clothes and robes, and think that's fine and attractive, but don't like sexy armors, and frankly I haven't seen any sexy armors in DA series, so it seems to be fine.

I doubt that DA will ever have something like this: 

If mods are possible then yes:

F.e: