226 réponses à ce sujet

[Merlex]

I know this quote were directed at another poster but...

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...


@Alien: My opinion. I think all mods are silly. People get very upset when I say that, lol. It's nothing personal. I just like to play the game that the company designed. And if someone is modding skimpy outfits I feel they aren't being any more or less silly than someone who mods mohawks onto their DA protagonist.

If it weren't for mods, i would have left DA2 quite a while ago. I have 50 appearance mods in my override, for the CC. Bioware's CC wasn't all that inclusive. I now have access to many, many more skintones than before. Skin textures in some of these mods, smooth out the blotches in the darker tones.

I have a lot more hair colors, eyebrow colors, eye colors, eye shadows, lipsticks, than the vanilla game. Some of the choices are silly, like pink hair, but most i have aren't. I have more realistic scars.

I use armor mods as well. I don't dress female characters or companions, in outfits that are more skin than than armor. But to each their own. I do dress some female characters in form fitting armor, but who depends on personality and class build.

I could go on and on. But imo more choice, for variety or to make a character feel more like the players, is not silly.

Modifié par Merlex, 06 octobre 2012 - 01:19 .

[Merlex]

XCelfa wrote...

Revenant24 wrote...

Sex sells, when will people (Mostly women) understand this will not change?

When men are objectified to sell me products on a daily... hourly basis, so...

Everybody seems to be forgeting Varric's outfit.

[Heidenreich]

At the end of the day, what we would like to see are our companions in clothing that is appropriate for the setting. Sex appeal has nothing to do with it. Aveline for example was sexy as hell in her full plate armor.

If they're warriors, put'm in full plate. If they're rogues put'm in full leather. If they're mages, stick'm in mage robes. I'd rather see my companions dressed properly for battle. Male or female. This for the most part has been true for DA games. Mind you Morrigan was in rags, but she was a wildling. Isabela was in leather. Mind you she was missing pants but then she was a sailor and perhaps the lack of pants was more due to the nature of being on ships rather then sexiness for her. We don't know and no one ever bothered to ask her (aka there was never an option!)

Honestly I could see heavy leather pants being a negative on a ship, getting weighed down and ruined by water-log and causing chafing ;p Thus the cloth tunic and high boots. High boots to protect her feet and legs, cloth tunic to be airy and breathable. It's not really an impractical outfit if you think of it on those terms. Even the scarf on her head served to keep her hair out of her face ;p

Practical outfits for the worlds these characters live in!

[The Elder King]

Joy Divison wrote...

burning salaradile wrote...
 Even Jack, who is somewhat characterized to dress like she does, doesn't really make sense; how is she going to protect herself from all those deadly guns?

Err...you protect yourself from guns by not being in the line of fire.  Jack's outfit made the *most* sense of anyone in ME2.

Yeah, it made a lot of sense. One hit and she'd be injuried. A good hit and she'd be seriously injured or dead.
It made no sense of certain squadmated went to battle in ME2. Even if they had shield and barriers (though I'd like to know how Jack's outfit could have shields) armour are still necessary, because they have a different functions.

[KainD]

Here is a cool outfit:



Sexy, practical and not revealing at the same time., perfect.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Straight male pandering, of course.

[XCelfa]

bleachorange wrote...

XCelfa wrote...

Revenant24 wrote...

Sex sells, when will people (Mostly women) understand this will not change?

When men are objectified to sell me products on a daily... hourly basis, so...

probably never.
Don't be an ass.

men and women are different. we see the world differently, we enjoy different things. obviously, this is all a generalization, but how many men watch figure skating (on their own)? how many women watch football (on their own)? it's not about hard and fast rules, but about realizing that while stereotyping exists and is bad, it happens for a reason.

so is it so hard to believe that different things appeal to women in advertising than men? i'm not saying the ladies don't enjoy topless shots of buff dudes. i'm just saying that it will be less effective advertising for women than shots of nubile women in skimpy clothing will be for men. don't you think that if this cheap form of advertising worked as well for a female audience as it does for the male audience, it would be just as prevalent? some things are what they are because human nature doesn't change.

Maker take the wheel. You are not really telling me that in my 23 years of life on this planet that I'VE JUST BEEN LOOKING AT THINGS THE WRONG WAY? And here I thought I had the Female Experience all figured out... shame I never had a nice Manfolk explain it all to me, because I can't wrap my little pink squirrel brain around Complicated Man Things like advertising, sexualization of my gender, and complete and utter dudebros assuming I don't know what I'm talking about on an internet forum.

Why don't you reroll as a female and then try maintaining that viewpoint? Gender roles condition us to expect certain things from the opposite sex. It is in no way ~natural~. You are a product of your society.

[Fiacre]

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

MultiWerar wrote...

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

WHAT THE ****

Well I don't see how that's any different than this:



I can't remember being upset when I saw this, so the girls should be able to proudly display their avatars' toned bodies as well. It's only fair.

Exactly. 

As I said, the real sexism here is claiming that a woman's body is something to be ashamed of and covered up. 

Also... the dude is highly sexualised to me. That's a nice six-pack, there...

I, on the other hand, don't find him all that sexualized. Nor attractive, for that matter. Of course, I also think that that female armour is butt ugly, highly unattractive and just all around urgh. I'd much rather wear proper heavy plate -- not only is it more practical, I also find it to look a lot better and be far more attractive than some desperate attempts to show off boobs.

In all honesty, most things designed to be sexy aren't all that sexy to me. Morrigan's robes would be an exception, Isabela, on the other hand, is not one bit attractive to me. Practical armour and nice looking cothes that cover more than the nipples and crotch are things I find a lot more appealing, be it on women or men.

[PantheraOnca]

Mods are as much the responsibility of bioware as are fan/slash fiction.

[Quicksilver26]

XCelfa wrote...

bleachorange wrote...

XCelfa wrote...

Revenant24 wrote...

Sex sells, when will people (Mostly women) understand this will not change?

When men are objectified to sell me products on a daily... hourly basis, so...

probably never.
Don't be an ass.

men and women are different. we see the world differently, we enjoy different things. obviously, this is all a generalization, but how many men watch figure skating (on their own)? how many women watch football (on their own)? it's not about hard and fast rules, but about realizing that while stereotyping exists and is bad, it happens for a reason.

so is it so hard to believe that different things appeal to women in advertising than men? i'm not saying the ladies don't enjoy topless shots of buff dudes. i'm just saying that it will be less effective advertising for women than shots of nubile women in skimpy clothing will be for men. don't you think that if this cheap form of advertising worked as well for a female audience as it does for the male audience, it would be just as prevalent? some things are what they are because human nature doesn't change.

Maker take the wheel. You are not really telling me that in my 23 years of life on this planet that I'VE JUST BEEN LOOKING AT THINGS THE WRONG WAY? And here I thought I had the Female Experience all figured out... shame I never had a nice Manfolk explain it all to me, because I can't wrap my little pink squirrel brain around Complicated Man Things like advertising, sexualization of my gender, and complete and utter dudebros assuming I don't know what I'm talking about on an internet forum.

Why don't you reroll as a female and then try maintaining that viewpoint? Gender roles condition us to expect certain things from the opposite sex. It is in no way ~natural~. You are a product of your society.

woot you go girl:wizard: your awesome:D

There is a fine line beween sexuality vs objectification and it gets crossed for to often.
It's one thing to have them dress sexy it's anther to have the carmers pan over there ass or breast
(I think that's why people care more about Miranda then Jack. Jack did have less on but that wasn't the focus when she was on screen but with Mirandas her ass was far to often.)

[MichaelStuart]

I will be happy as long as clothing looks practical.
That being said, art design is very low on my must have list.

[slimgrin]

StElmo wrote...

I feel like I'm being pandered to as if I am the biggest basement dwelling, socially challenged, internet fiend piece of crap whenever I see a game that puts skimpy characters into the cast.

This is even worse when the game makes an effort to put voyueristic shots of these characters into the game. Like Miranda's absurd bum shots - seriously what the hell?

DA2, at least, had some very practical armor sets for people like Femhawke and Aveline, if this extends to all of the characters in the next game I will be VERY pleased.

Here's my solution:

If the game manages to NOT embarass the player whenever a non-gamer sees them playing around those characters, then you probably have done a decent enough job.

P.S. you all might say "but miranda and isabella's design suited their character! so its okay" - oh yeah? then bite me, there is no reason the character design couldn't reflect their characters without being skimpy and impractical.

In closing, I think my point is that we have all grown up since the old days and we'd like to see that reflected in DA3.

There's a distinct differnce between 'grown up' and having a puritanical stump up your ass.

Modifié par slimgrin, 06 octobre 2012 - 04:51 .

[Milan92]

Sorry, but in what way was Isabela's outfit wrong? I mean, she still wore underwear. The only thing missing were her pants. But her boots were so high that I never though she needed them.

I mean. when girls wear skirts they also don't wear pants right? So what makes Isabela a diffrence?

[DarthLaxian]

XCelfa wrote...

While I kind of understand where you're coming from, I have to ask: Why are you playing a rated M game in the first place if this kind of content bothers you?

THANK YOU!

it is rated mature - and all those prudish people want a Teeny-Game *shakes his head*

also:

i would not feel embarrassed in the slightest playing a game showing (partially) nude people...why should i? should i feel embarrassed if something like that is shown on TV or on a poster etc. too?

honestly, there are too many prudes out there that are not able to handle mature images the right way (probably the same people that want the lights out during sex because they do not want to see their GF/BF naked...*shakes his head again and sighs*)

greetings LAX
ps: a lot of those people by the way buy porn etc. (no wonder that for example the US has such a large market for porn etc. with all of that

Modifié par DarthLaxian, 06 octobre 2012 - 06:11 .

[CitizenThom]

I don't mind skimpy people, or their skimpy clothes. Yet another thread of 'I'm offended by this, so don't let anyone else enjoy it'. Pluralism please.

[XCelfa]

CitizenThom wrote...

I don't mind skimpy people, or their skimpy clothes. Yet another thread of 'I'm offended by this, so don't let anyone else enjoy it'. Pluralism please.

That's a bit too large of an umbrella statement to be applied to this subject... it's not like we're talking about murder or dead baby jokes.

[Merlex]

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

Merlex wrote...

I know this quote were directed at another poster but...

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...


@Alien: My opinion. I think all mods are silly. People get very upset when I say that, lol. It's nothing personal. I just like to play the game that the company designed. And if someone is modding skimpy outfits I feel they aren't being any more or less silly than someone who mods mohawks onto their DA protagonist.

If it weren't for mods, i would have left DA2 quite a while ago. I have 50 appearance mods in my override, for the CC. Bioware's CC wasn't all that inclusive. I now have access to many, many more skintones than before. Skin textures in some of these mods, smooth out the blotches in the darker tones.

I have a lot more hair colors, eyebrow colors, eye colors, eye shadows, lipsticks, than the vanilla game. Some of the choices are silly, like pink hair, but most i have aren't. I have more realistic scars.

I use armor mods as well. I don't dress female characters or companions, in outfits that are more skin than than armor. But to each their own. I do dress some female characters in form fitting armor, but who depends on personality and class build.

I could go on and on. But imo more choice, for variety or to make a character feel more like the players, is not silly.

lol, well it's my opinion, what else can I say? I'm sorry if it offends anyone. I think it's kind of silly. I understand the appeal of it, but at the same time it seems like people are too easily dissatisfied.

You didn't offend me. I realize you are just expressing your opinion, just as i am. I don't believe that i can change your mind either. It would be a useless exercise, people rarely change their mind through debate. I'm just trying to show you another perspective.

I don't think that having so few skintone choices, is being too easily dissatisfied. Sometimes people like their characters to reflect themselves, in some way. Let's face it, the CC isn't exactly representative. Even with my mods, i can't get a Native American skintone right. And i'm sure you know the old jokes about blonde woman, with dark eyebrows.

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

My husband and I joke about mods all the time, saying things like, "Mario does not look Italian enough in Super Mario bros! I'm going to mod him so that he does! I'm also going to mod Link and give him pointier ears!"

I've never consider Super Mario Brothers a RPG. Mario is the company's character, a rpg character is the player's.

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

But I get it. You want to create your own thing. The game gives you the ability to create your own thing within  its own parameters, but I know some people want to go beyond that.

I would be one of them. I've played 21 characters in DA2. My first 8, and 2 finishes, were without mods. After a while it gets redundant. Now i have hundreds of files in my override. One that let's me equip my companion's armor, some that make enemies more challenging, one that improves ranged companion's AI. I have a couple hundred armor files, files to change companion's specialization trees, and some companion facemorphs.

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

Also, modding can crash a game if there is any error in the data files. And there are lots of buggy mods out there. So, it has its downsides. 

Tell me about it, i had one glitch that took me several hours to track down.

[JustifiablyDefenestrated]

 I can ignore the gratuitous sexualization of Isabela because that seems to be a commentary on her character--i.e. she wears it as a mask. 

I think we're initially supposed to look at her and make the assumption that her character is a sexual object--and that's it. But, as the story progresses, and she becomes a more fleshed out as a character (rather than a caricature), the audience is supposed to see past the stereotype and see a conflicted, complicated person. 

So, in other words, I think she's supposed to make you feel uncomfortable and it's supposed to be juvenile, and, especially if you're looking at her character in the context of the video game industry, she's a commentary on the unceasing, relentless sexual objectification of women.

Miranda, on the other hand, seemed to exist soley for the purpose of pandering to an immature audience. I found it impossible to take her character seriously.

Modifié par JustifiablyDefenestrated, 06 octobre 2012 - 07:43 .

[ScarMK]

People want skimpy outfits fine, but leave the combat outfits practical looking. The picture a few posts up is just asking to be shot.

[Biotic Sage]

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

Men do tend to be more visual in terms of their sexuality (this is obviously a generalization, hence the "tend").  However, I have to wonder whether or not this is a socially-instilled aspect of sexuality or if it is a natural one?  Maybe a bit of both?  Girls and boys do tend to be treated and raised differently growing up, so when they are solidifying their sexualities in their younger years maybe boys are pushed more towards visual sexual stimuli than girls are.

We're not blind, though. There are quite a few reasons for me to watch the film "300". And here they all are...

[img removed*]

Impractical battle gear? Maybe. But who cares?

I'm glad you enjoyed the man candy haha.  I myself had a hard time making it through 300 because it is one of the most war-mongering, nationalist, shallow, effects-first films of all time.  I hated it from a technical standpoint and from a content standpoint.  Suckerpunch was even worse with the shallowness and effects over emotional engagement, but I did enjoy the eye candy in that one...up until the point I shot myself in the face.

...Went off topic there, my Zack Snyder hate is strong.  Anyway, the point is the fight against sexism.  At least 300 did something for that.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 06 octobre 2012 - 09:50 .

[bleachorange]

XCelfa wrote...

bleachorange wrote...

men and women are different. we see the world differently, we enjoy different things. obviously, this is all a generalization, but how many men watch figure skating (on their own)? how many women watch football (on their own)? it's not about hard and fast rules, but about realizing that while stereotyping exists and is bad, it happens for a reason.

so is it so hard to believe that different things appeal to women in advertising than men? i'm not saying the ladies don't enjoy topless shots of buff dudes. i'm just saying that it will be less effective advertising for women than shots of nubile women in skimpy clothing will be for men. don't you think that if this cheap form of advertising worked as well for a female audience as it does for the male audience, it would be just as prevalent? some things are what they are because human nature doesn't change.

Maker take the wheel. You are not really telling me that in my 23 years of life on this planet that I'VE JUST BEEN LOOKING AT THINGS THE WRONG WAY? And here I thought I had the Female Experience all figured out... shame I never had a nice Manfolk explain it all to me, because I can't wrap my little pink squirrel brain around Complicated Man Things like advertising, sexualization of my gender, and complete and utter dudebros assuming I don't know what I'm talking about on an internet forum.

Why don't you reroll as a female and then try maintaining that viewpoint? Gender roles condition us to expect certain things from the opposite sex. It is in no way ~natural~. You are a product of your society.

sure we are a product of our society.

you seem to have ignored all the parts where i pointed out that this is all a generalization? and where did i say you had a pink little squirrel brain or insinuate that women are stupid? it's a different point of view, coming from a dude, saying that women in general show less interest in say, porn (a visual medium), than dudes in general.

OMG, the world is over! I just somehow said you were stupid and put you down in some super subtle sinister way! NOT. i'm not saying the objectification of women doesn't exist. never mind my actual point, though, unless you actually want to listen to what I have to say instead of assuming i'm some kind of male superiority proponent. If you would like me to perhaps clarify my point, let me know and we can discuss this like adults.

thanks

Quicksilver26 wrote...
woot you go girl:wizard: your awesome:D

There is a fine line beween sexuality vs objectification and it gets crossed for to often.
It's one thing to have them dress sexy it's anther to have the carmers pan over there ass or breast
(I think that's why people care more about Miranda then Jack. Jack did have less on but that wasn't the focus when she was on screen but with Mirandas her ass was far to often.)

actually, i think people cared more about miranda because

a) she wore skintight clothing and got the fan service
jack is harder to connect with due to the fact that she keeps her walls up and is a more complex character.
c)i don't know about other guys, but i do have to say that shaved heads and tattoos pretty much tell me 'keep away'
nothing against it or anything, but i just felt no intial attraction with jack whatsoever beyond 'wow, she's pretty badass.' i do have to add i liked jack much better in me3 after seeing her at grissom academy. she really turned things around, now helping and teaching others.

in short, jack is much more like a real person than the more traditional archetype character that miranda is. as far as the objectification goes, i actually feel miranda was more objectified than jack, not because of the visuals but because she falls more in line with the 'classical beauty' type of thing.




look, if you want less revealing clothes or less provocative shots, that's fine, i don't really care. i sorta feel like you jumped to conclusions about what i was trying to get across.