444 réponses à ce sujet

[NDAv]

My toughest battles so far has been the random battles on the world map, somtiems right after defeating a boss. I'm not sure if level scaling is the problem though.

[Cybercat999]

Some people obviously want to wipe the floor with 12 thugs singlehanded. Seriously, the most boring part of the game is that "battle" at Denerim gate where one "gets to feel awesome". I fail to feel awesome, I feel bored and ridiculous. I am not needed there when my dog can kill 15 enemies with waving one paw.
And I dont even consider myself some uber powergamer who beats every game out there in matter of minutes. With one hand tied behind her back. I am average and this game is easy.

Modifié par Cybercat999, 29 décembre 2009 - 10:23 .

[Fluffykeith]

Here's a question... What exactly is wrong with using examples? It's a valid part of the debating process. All I was trying to do was use examples that others would recognise to try to make my point clearer.



Seems this isn't allowed. Seems I can't draw on examples from outside the game to try to explain why I think the Denerim thugs aren't just basic muggers, or why I reckon a hero still has to be worried about coming up against large groups. Doesn't make sense to me, but hey ho.

[DragonRageGT]

LOL at the labeling system!

It is not like we all walk around carrying plaques with our titles over our heads! If that is immersion breaking for some, I have an easier and faster solution that requires only one key.

V key and off with the interface! Then you won't see numbers floating, ballon tags over the heads, dialogue subtitle ballons, nothing... not good enough? Need more immersion than that? Take a dive from the lava pit at the Anvil of the Void and off with you!

Modifié par RageGT, 29 décembre 2009 - 10:25 .

[XOGHunter246]

This is extreme but in real life you can't beat a group of people if outnumbered but if it was one on one you will have better chance. Same example goes for dragons and groups.

[Sylixe]

Eisberg1977 wrote...

Sylixe wrote...

So it's gone to 15 pages and nobody yet understands why the scaling is the way it is? The answer lies in the younger generation of gamers that REQUIRE their cheat codes and everything handed to them without any effort. The MMO genre is the best example of what happened to challenging gaming. Unless the game is easy to win with a drooling monkey it will not sell the units the corporate guys have it targeted for.

However the developers have provided the community with the tools to make the game more challenging if they want. This to me is a total scam but at least it's possible to make the game a lot harder than it is with enough time.

The difficulty scaling in games has been slipping for many years now and doesn't appear to have any takers in changing that philosophy. I have been setting newly released games on the hardest setting for the past few years. The end result is utter disappointment at what a developer calls "Nightmare" or "Hard".

If you want to correct the scaling issue you are going to have to break the game up into chapters so that anything you previously met can be replaced with something new and more powerful. It keeps the integrity of the game while at the same time making it believable. However many players don't really like that option as it makes it appear you have less freedom in game. The alternative is making areas inaccesible until you reach a certain level or complete a certain part of the storyline. Again though people see less freedom in that option and reject it.

What? everything you said is not the answer at all.  It has been 15 pages of people saying they don't like the Constant challenge of the game, they want times where they wipe the floor against thugs, want times where they feel powerful.

The scaling in this game keeps it a challenge for every fight, Dragon Age is already known as one of the more difficult games out right now.  Granted there are some gamers who are just really good at games and they feel that the challenge in this game is lacking, but generally this game is a real challanging for people on Normal difficulty.

Tough?  When exactly was the game tough on nightmare?  The toughest fight in the game is Gaxkang and only because they put you in a copnfined sapce, which oddly enough is the trick to make him an easy fight.  If you have a tough time with this game you need to just go back to checkers or something. 

XOGHunter246 wrote...

This is extreme but in real life you can't beat a group of people if outnumbered but if it was one on one you will have better chance. Same example goes for dragons and groups.

Except that dragon is actually worth about 50 opponents and will either flatten you in one swat or simply fly away if it realises it cannot win.

Modifié par Sylixe, 29 décembre 2009 - 10:35 .

[XOGHunter246]

Does not fly off in game so there can be four of you against it so it at disadvantage my point was if your outnumbered the numbers can make up for it. I wouldn't say a dragon is worth a wolf especially the arch demon. They should of put 20 thugs instead of that archdemon.

Modifié par XOGHunter246, 29 décembre 2009 - 10:46 .

[Eisberg1977]

Sylixe wrote...



Tough?  When exactly was the game tough on nightmare?  The toughest fight in the game is Gaxkang and only because they put you in a copnfined sapce, which oddly enough is the trick to make him an easy fight.  If you have a tough time with this game you need to just go back to checkers or something. 

Being condescending doesn't help your point at all.  Like I said, there are some players who are just really good at games.  But the average gamer is finding this game a challenge on Normal. But like I said before, what you said initially is no where near the answer for this thread, because the people were saying they hated the constant challange, they want more easy fights.  So how is your "answer" and answer to that?  They aren't complaining about the difficulty, they are complaining that there is a challenge on every fight, instead of some being easy.   None of what you said makes any sense to what the OP and people who agree with him said.

[XOGHunter246]

That is why they have a easy setting for easier fights and not only that you can change it in mid game what I don't understand how people can expect SOME easy fights on the hardest difficulty makes no sense. If you want easy thugs play on a easy mode if you want hard thugs play on hardest mode simple.

Modifié par XOGHunter246, 29 décembre 2009 - 10:58 .

[DragonRageGT]

Sorry Eisberg but it's been 15 pages of the "same" people saying that they don't like the constant challenge of the game while lots of different people stopped by to say they are fine with it the way it is, with some stubborn fanboy like myself among them.

It is not being condescending though. It is good that average gamer finds challenge on Normal mode. Finish a run like that and then try it on Hard... it will be a lot easier, I assure you. Nightmare after that will seem just like "Easy" mode when one first started playing.

I have to disagree but they are complaining about the difficulty when they are complaining about the constant challenge because after you have experience with the game, the challenge is dropped substantially in whatever encounter one may face in the game.

Gothic II is an amazing game with no scaling and labeling like some suggest.. Grunt Orcs, Orcs, Warrior, Elite Warrior and Orc Captain. It is a hell of a hard game that really makes the char and the player feel enormous satisfaction for spending their learning points (level up) on the proper training for their classes. After you reach 100 (master) on anything (2H swords, 1H, Magic, Archery) , you can easily wipe out the world. It is fine really but DA is no Gothic.

Here the player has to train, not only the char. It gives a lot of satisfaction when, after a first run full of pain and reloads in lower diffs, an average player like me starts having a real good time in harder difficulties because now I know a lot better how to play the game! If such learning process doesn't please some people, they are obviously playing the wrong game or should just stick with lower diffs!

Modifié par RageGT, 29 décembre 2009 - 11:01 .

[Sidney]

People keep wanting to make this about how "hard" the game is but it isn't - although I hate to ruin people's superiority trips about how good a gamer they are. It is about how the game feels. Level scaling is a necessary evil but it is an evil. It is very evident that the whole world is drafting you as you move through the game and that feels wrong. You can imagine those thugs have been honing their craft for years to be as good as you but of course you know perfectly well that they are tippy top fighters because you hit them at level 20, show up a few levels sooner and they are bozos and those walking corpses over at Arl Eamon's place are now the biggest and baddest. It is something that continually slaps you in the face that the world isn't real but only revolves around your character. Is it the worst sin in a game, no but it obviously bothers some people like me. In the end, you want the game to remain a challenge but also have some level of internal logic that ins't just a game mechanism. DAO is better than Oblivion but then again almost anything would be

[Eisberg1977]

RageGT wrote...



It is not being condescending though. It is good that average gamer finds challenge on Normal mode. Finish a run like that and then try it on Hard... it will be a lot easier, I assure you. Nightmare after that will seem just like "Easy" mode when one first started playing.

It was condenscending of him to say that anybody who finds this game a challenge needs to go back to playing checkers.  Really that is just an attack by him.

[blakskyz]

I have to admit the OP did have a point so I thought at one point myself. But after playing too many times and at nightmare level, my rogue does some serious kick ass. The thugs/archers took them down. The damn soldiers that are there later ..i think there were like 18-20 of them..took them down.



You need to use tactics and assess which direction you will proceed to limit your damage. I admit I was selfish...I didn't care that my party had died valiantly taking down 5 soldiers..I took the rest out. Shamelessly taking pots..lol.



The only difficult battle was gaxkang..omg..that dirty sob. I had wynne and morrigan too. But in the end the my beautiful little rogue did her job diligently.

[DragonRageGT]

RageGT wrote...

LOL at the labeling system!

It is not like we all walk around carrying plaques with our titles over our heads! If that is immersion breaking for some, I have an easier and faster solution that requires only one key.

V key and off with the interface! Then you won't see numbers floating, ballon tags over the heads, dialogue subtitle ballons, nothing... not good enough? Need more immersion than that? Take a dive from the lava pit at the Anvil of the Void and off with you!

Missed that, did you?

Modifié par RageGT, 29 décembre 2009 - 11:52 .

[Tin Soldier]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

RageGT wrote...

It's been 15 pages of the "same" people saying that they don't like the constant challenge of the game

Are the people posting in defence of level scaling being disingenuous or do they lack reading comprehension skills? Can any one of you do me the honour of summarising the arguments made against your point of view, as found in this thread?

The anti level scaling folks believe that having a level 6 thug in Lowbieville and having a level 20 thug in High City is immersion destroying.
They believe that having a level6 thug that only exists in Lowbieville and having a level 20 elite thug that only exists in High City is immersive.
I don't agree.

[Eisberg1977]

Tin Soldier wrote...


The anti level scaling folks believe that having a level 6 thug in Lowbieville and having a level 20 thug in High City is immersion destroying.
They believe that having a level6 thug that only exists in Lowbieville and having a level 20 elite thug that only exists in High City is immersive.
I don't agree.

You forgot one.  They don't like having constant challege either.  They want to have easy mode fights through out the game, mixed in with challenging fights, to feel like they are getting powerful, not more resourceful.

[XOGHunter246]

The Devs all know what the majority of gamers want thats why there is level scaling more challenging means longer play on games not like completing in like a day. ><

Modifié par XOGHunter246, 30 décembre 2009 - 12:10 .

[Tin Soldier]

Eisberg1977 wrote...

Tin Soldier wrote...


The anti level scaling folks believe that having a level 6 thug in Lowbieville and having a level 20 thug in High City is immersion destroying.
They believe that having a level6 thug that only exists in Lowbieville and having a level 20 elite thug that only exists in High City is immersive.
I don't agree.

You forgot one.  They don't like having constant challege either.  They want to have easy mode fights through out the game, mixed in with challenging fights, to feel like they are getting powerful, not more resourceful.

Is there something about level scaling that precludes that type of combat?

[Eisberg1977]

Tin Soldier wrote...

Eisberg1977 wrote...

Tin Soldier wrote...


The anti level scaling folks believe that having a level 6 thug in Lowbieville and having a level 20 thug in High City is immersion destroying.
They believe that having a level6 thug that only exists in Lowbieville and having a level 20 elite thug that only exists in High City is immersive.
I don't agree.

You forgot one.  They don't like having constant challege either.  They want to have easy mode fights through out the game, mixed in with challenging fights, to feel like they are getting powerful, not more resourceful.

Is there something about level scaling that precludes that type of combat?

I suppose not.  But that is one of the complaints in this thread with Dragon Age, there is a constant Challenge, and they don't like that either.

[XOGHunter246]

OK for those of you that don't want constant challenge put it on easiest mode. If thats still a problem well so help you play another type of game.

Modifié par XOGHunter246, 30 décembre 2009 - 12:21 .

[Bibdy]

The IDEA of level scaling is nothing but good. In practice its a bit awkward and contributes to the whacky difficulty curve of the game (though, certainly not the sole reason), but its certainly made Modder's lives easier in that they don't have to tailor their creations to specific level ranges or create lots of alternate versions and swap things in/out depending on the player's level.

Modifié par Bibdy, 30 décembre 2009 - 12:26 .

[F-C]

Tin Soldier wrote...

The anti level scaling folks believe that having a level 6 thug in Lowbieville and having a level 20 thug in High City is immersion destroying.
They believe that having a level6 thug that only exists in Lowbieville and having a level 20 elite thug that only exists in High City is immersive.
I don't agree.

this is pretty much it.

they have their panties in a knot because the name didnt upgrade with their level.

oh my, the immersion!

/facepalm

[DragonRageGT]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Before or after one staring all of your Youtube videos?

Sorry, not my language... is that a good or bad thing? Staring at my vids, I mean.:innocent:

[DragonRageGT]

63,800 people did... but I'll miss your comments there...

[Ichigo Pantsu]

I think you are just over reacting to be honest. I haven't beat the game yet and I am lvl 15 as well. I have switched difficulty back and forth to see how much it affects it. From normal to easy your damage is like +20 and on hardest difficulty it you miss and hit lower quiet often. I am just having issues with this so called "bug or glitch" in orzammar and how it takes forever to be able to gain a new skill. 18 hours on the game and I can't even progress because of being stuck in orzammar -.- so stupid. I agree by the way a dragon is wayyyyyyyyy harder than a pack of wolves lol! I don't know how smart you are but the way you talk on here makes you seem pretty dumb.

Modifié par Ichigo Pantsu, 30 décembre 2009 - 02:27 .