444 réponses à ce sujet

[XOGHunter246]

Fandango9641 wrote...

XOGHunter246 wrote...

OK for those of you that don't want constant challenge put it on easiest mode. If thats still a problem well so help you play another type of game.

Not an issue.

Well not with you anyway other have said this.

[TearsoftheForest]

I have to agree its all about strategy. I beat BG2 over a dozen times, and went in Dragon Age and died my first play through very often for a few factors. I didn't make use of the 'bombs' I found they were not very medieval. I didn't equip my group with ranged weapons, and I didn't learn much on traps and salves. I also never (even still) use any of the tactic 'thingies' like setting certain behaviors.

Now I'm doing well though. The game makes more sense to me this time through. You just need to learn what best way to handle each individual battle.

[sp0lh4us]

RageGT wrote...

63,800 people did... but I'll miss your comments there...

With that said, I'm quite sure you would fail your Harrowing...
But then, I understand why so many ppl said this game is difficult.

Reading thru the stuff after waking up today I realized that the opposite group still chewing on difficulty.
As I clearly indicated in my post, feeling myself superior OR inferior has nothing to do with dificulty.
Separating myself from real life examples I call upon the BG II experience again.
In BG II the level (quality) of enemies was based on the area and not a relative of your level.
It forced a somewhat linear road to follow, but as a result, you had a chance to feel the progression:
At level 7 (in BG that was you starter level) you've been hammered down by a bunch of kobolds but those
same kobolds at level 14 posed only a slight threat if any at all. Thus giving you the feeling of progression.
And that doesnt mean the game became easy when you reached 14+! There was several OTHER enccounters
fit for your level.
Please, forget about difficulty when I say I dislike constant challnge. Many have pointed out, that we aren't
superheroes! And we shouldn't be! But that doesn't mean every single regular genlock/thug/wolf/etc has to
be the same level as me, have the same skills as me, carrying the same armor as me! Then we should just
put down our banner of liberty and let them save the world! Thats what I call immersion breaking.
I'd like to feel myself superior at level 18+ facing 6-8 regular genlocks. On the other hand, I would certainly feel
myself inferior facing an Ogre, 3 emissaries, 2 alphas, AND 6-8 regular genlock who happens to tag along.
I humbly asked for a redesigned level scaling. I DON'T want more easy fights, NM is already too easy.

Modifié par sp0lh4us, 30 décembre 2009 - 08:45 .

[Liegence]

I had a similar encounter as the original poster:  After fighting a long, grueling battle at the end of the Dalish Elves quest, I set out back to the camp when I was suddenly ambushed by a seemingly random group of brigands and was severly dominated in a few short seconds.  Then I realized I didn't save, the game didn't auto-save, and I have to redo the entire boss combat (and subsequent dialogue).  This time I did save, rolled the same random encounter and even while taking the fight seriously from the start this time, I was still massacred.  It made doing the elite boss encounter again for the third time so easy, that I was quite sore and fed up with "level-scaling" for the moment.

BUT, I do appreciate scaling over the long term.  Developers aren't perfect - I didn't try the better combat patch but that would probably help out as enemy archers do seem to get overwhelming at higher stages. 

My personal solution was to switch the difficulty to Casual... and I never looked back.  Pause/unpause just wasn't for me, and the only time I ever needed to switch characters or develop tactics was again particularly nasty elite bosses. 

At least on Casual the random encounters come across as easily crushed by an experienced Warden.  Only greater demons, powerful casters with hordes of darkspawn at their command, or the occasional High Dragon "give me pause" (so to speak). 

That being said, appreciate level scaling for it's grandure in the long view, and work around the kinks as best you see fit.

[DragonRageGT]

@sp0lh4us

While I truly understand your point, I have to disagree.

You said: "But that doesn't mean every single regular genlock/thug/wolf/etc has to be the same level as me, have the same skills as me, carrying the same armor as me!"

1 - They are never at the same level as you. Usually a couple levels lower (survival skill shows them on mini-map - mouse over the red dots and check what level they are.

2 - They do not have the same skill you do. If  both of you have scattershot, you're supposed to have Mastery, which they don't. (I'm guessing here but it makes sense and it is more like something that BW would do). Plus, with some items or skills you can negate the effect. I'm using only one skill as example but it is valid for any of them, really!

3 - If a Genlock or Thug has the "same armor" as you, it is about time you stop being a cheap hero and buy some amazing Unique items or go treasure hunting for some Unique items and armor sets.

I definitely don't want to be forced to go onto a linear route. Up until Lothering we are but after that? Each playthrough I go to a different place and do a whole different sequence of traveling. You really want to kill that and force us to go to 1 map distance N-E-W-S like Baldurs Gate? Because BG forced us to do that. We could choose, as long we chose one of the four cardinal points of the map for Area Transition for the next area. And then, chapters!!! NO!!!!!

For stuff like that, I play The Witcher, many runs on it and it is an awesome game. Or Risen, even more runs on that and it is a wonderful, immersive game.

Now please, of all those Merriam-Webster definition for "immersion" I posted, which one is that which breaks for you?
What exactly is "immersion" for you?

Because once you get into the character's skin, you don't really know what are their skills, level, equipment. And please, they may drop one "silverite" or "dragonbone" item. It absolutely does not mean they were wearing it! Most elite bosses drops... crafting material! I want their gear... to sell! Mundane items, no matter the quality, are just that... mundane.

Stop metagaming, be your character and Overcome! (that was said long ago by Morpheus, great and wise guy, owner of NWN server War of The Ring in a post where he teached us, powergamers like me, what is Role Play! Funny that Torias said about the same thing in a post here)

Edit: Oh, I did finish my Harrowing and deleted the char afterwards. I hate playing spellcasters!

Modifié par RageGT, 30 décembre 2009 - 09:49 .

[GHL_Soul_Reaver]

Level scaling is fine I think...



One thing that is missing is that the enemies also would get more HP when you advance an actual difficulty... would be nice if they did... makes it even more rightfully tough when hitting nightmare and the likes.

[sp0lh4us]

RageGT wrote...

Stop metagaming, be your character and Overcome! (that was said long ago by Morpheus, great and wise guy, owner of NWN server War of The Ring in a post where he teached us, powergamers like me, what is Role Play! Funny that Torias said about the same thing in a post here)

I'm quite sure you have little to none idea what 'role play' in RPGs generaly means.
If you indeed role play in DA:O then there's NO freedom. Oh, well, there is, but as soon as you go to the
Brecillian Forest instead of the Mages Tower after Lothering, stop calling yourself a Grey Warden and also
stop calling yourself a roleplayer. (Hope it doesn't count as a spoiler here...)

We are standing on different sides and it's clear we will stay at it. For me DA:O has many flaws - flaws that
were implemented in the game by reason - thanks to the changing gaming community. For me, these are bad.
I'm happy to see that you and others loves the game as is, that means Bioware will be happy with their money
and they can release similar games in the future. Games that I might not buy.

[DragonRageGT]

Pitty we don't have mplayer and DM's here to judge that. They seemed quite happy with my rp'ing as all my gaming buddies in those servers. And while I do agree that I have no idea of what RP means, it was they who said it that I am a great roleplayer... 'cept when I killed Sauron with a slaying evil arrow... DM had him and got really mad when he rolled a 1 vs it! Arrows were banned the next day, server was wiped the next week and world died the next month. Can't please everyone!

Modifié par RageGT, 30 décembre 2009 - 10:07 .

[Fluffykeith]

Why is going to the forest rather than the tower after Lothering "bad" roleplaying? Wouldn't it be more "RP" to go to Redcliff, since one of your companions advises you to go there first?

[sp0lh4us]

Fluffykeith wrote...

Why is going to the forest rather than the tower after Lothering "bad" roleplaying? Wouldn't it be more "RP" to go to Redcliff, since one of your companions advises you to go there first?

Since no spoilers allowed I will explain to you in a private message. Believe me, 'true grey warden'-wise the Mages are the ONLY role-play choice right after Lothering...

Modifié par sp0lh4us, 30 décembre 2009 - 10:58 .

[DragonRageGT]

After such shinny pearl... the ONLY choice left for me is recommend you to replace BioWare Lead Designers, game level designers, writters and programmers!

Modifié par RageGT, 30 décembre 2009 - 11:20 .

[sp0lh4us]

RageGT wrote...

After such shinny pearl... the ONLY choice left for me is recommend you to replace BioWare Lead Designers, game level designers, writters and programmers!

Cynism I take it? 'True-Grey-Warden'-wise, I wrote. If you don't belive me, would you like a private explanation too?

[Elvhen Veluthil]

Scaling is a very bad thing for me too, and since minimal scaling worked in BG, it can work in any game,it just need more work to get it right.

[Tin Soldier]

sp0lh4us wrote...

RageGT wrote...

After such shinny pearl... the ONLY choice left for me is recommend you to replace BioWare Lead Designers, game level designers, writters and programmers!

Cynism I take it? 'True-Grey-Warden'-wise, I wrote. If you don't belive me, would you like a private explanation too?

Start a thread in the Official Campaign Quests and Storylines (Spoilers Warning) forum.

[sp0lh4us]

Tin Soldier wrote...

sp0lh4us wrote...

RageGT wrote...

After such shinny pearl... the ONLY choice left for me is recommend you to replace BioWare Lead Designers, game level designers, writters and programmers!

Cynism I take it? 'True-Grey-Warden'-wise, I wrote. If you don't belive me, would you like a private explanation too?

Start a thread in the Official Campaign Quests and Storylines (Spoilers Warning) forum.

No offense, but I don't see the point. I'm here (in this topic) to discuss the level scaling. This smalltalk between
Rage and me maybe off-topic, an inevitable result of our arguments.

[Tin Soldier]

sp0lh4us wrote...

Tin Soldier wrote...

sp0lh4us wrote...

RageGT wrote...

After such shinny pearl... the ONLY choice left for me is recommend you to replace BioWare Lead Designers, game level designers, writters and programmers!

Cynism I take it? 'True-Grey-Warden'-wise, I wrote. If you don't belive me, would you like a private explanation too?

Start a thread in the Official Campaign Quests and Storylines (Spoilers Warning) forum.

No offense, but I don't see the point. I'm here (in this topic) to discuss the level scaling. This smalltalk between
Rage and me maybe off-topic, an inevitable result of our arguments.

Nothing is inevitable save death and taxes.  It wouldn't be off topic if you started your own thread.

[Eisberg1977]

sp0lh4us wrote...

Fluffykeith wrote...

Why is going to the forest rather than the tower after Lothering "bad" roleplaying? Wouldn't it be more "RP" to go to Redcliff, since one of your companions advises you to go there first?

Since no spoilers allowed I will explain to you in a private message. Believe me, 'true grey warden'-wise the Mages are the ONLY role-play choice right after Lothering...

Though I head to Mages tower first because there are somethings there that is extremely useful to have early on. But from a role play aspect, I can see Red Cliffe being first because:

1- Party member reccomends it to go first
2- This party member knows the Arl personally, and if you think about it, going to someone that has a link to you or your party member might be the best course of action to take to find help.  Why go to a stranger first, when you can go to a known person first for help?
3- If you were a mage, going to the Mage tower might be the last place you would want to go considering the history.
4- If you were a Dalish Elf, then heading to Dalish Elves or Red Cliffe first would fit better for Role Play
5- If you were a noble, going to the Arl, another Noble, might also be the best course of action to take first
6- City Elf, probably Red Cliffe first, maybe the Dalish since you are an elf.
7- Dwarf, probably Red Cliffe first, cause going back to Orzamar might be the last place you would want to be considering the history.

So, I really don't see how in a Roleplay aspect how the mages tower could really be the first place to head to, other then getting those very useful things early on.

[sp0lh4us]

Eisberg1977 wrote...

sp0lh4us wrote...

Fluffykeith wrote...

Why is going to the forest rather than the tower after Lothering "bad" roleplaying? Wouldn't it be more "RP" to go to Redcliff, since one of your companions advises you to go there first?

Since no spoilers allowed I will explain to you in a private message. Believe me, 'true grey warden'-wise the Mages are the ONLY role-play choice right after Lothering...

Though I head to Mages tower first because there are somethings there that is extremely useful to have early on. But from a role play aspect, I can see Red Cliffe being first because:

1- Party member reccomends it to go first
2- This party member knows the Arl personally, and if you think about it, going to someone that has a link to you or your party member might be the best course of action to take to find help.  Why go to a stranger first, when you can go to a known person first for help?
3- If you were a mage, going to the Mage tower might be the last place you would want to go considering the history.
4- If you were a Dalish Elf, then heading to Dalish Elves or Red Cliffe first would fit better for Role Play
5- If you were a noble, going to the Arl, another Noble, might also be the best course of action to take first
6- City Elf, probably Red Cliffe first, maybe the Dalish since you are an elf.
7- Dwarf, probably Red Cliffe first, cause going back to Orzamar might be the last place you would want to be considering the history.

So, I really don't see how in a Roleplay aspect how the mages tower could really be the first place to head to, other then getting those very useful things early on.

Third time then: grey-warden-wise! Please, disregard origins!
What you wrote here is close to spoliers, which isnt allowed here, but I promise you once I get home I will
start a new topic to clarify things for you. (And you can post your arguments there more appropriately.)
This discussion is off-topic in this post anyway.

Modifié par sp0lh4us, 30 décembre 2009 - 02:12 .

[DragonRageGT]

Fandango9641 wrote...

RageGT wrote...

After such shinny pearl... the ONLY choice left for me is recommend you to replace BioWare Lead Designers, game level designers, writters and programmers!

You're such an unapologetic fanboy, he may decline for fear of being stalked.

Hey, after this first line in the reply I quote bellow? I think I am entitled to be - whatever the frak it means - an apologetic fanboy, although I'd disagree with the fanboy part. You're abusing "me not being" a native english speaker to throw big words at me right?  But still, better than being an apocaliptic doomsayer claiming that game is "broken" because it is not exactly how I want it to be. (Any RPG breaking immersion surely must be broken!)

sp0lh4us wrote...

RageGT wrote...

Stop metagaming, be your character and Overcome! (that was said long ago by Morpheus, great and wise guy, owner of NWN server War of The Ring in a post where he teached us, powergamers like me, what is Role Play! Funny that Torias said about the same thing in a post here)

I'm quite sure you have little to none idea what 'role play' in RPGs generaly means.
If you indeed role play in DA:O then there's NO freedom. Oh, well, there is, but as soon as you go to the
Brecillian Forest instead of the Mages Tower after Lothering, stop calling yourself a Grey Warden and also
stop calling yourself a roleplayer. (Hope it doesn't count as a spoiler here...)

Oh Morpheus... get the frak out of the Matrix and put our website back online! I can't "metadapt"(dot com) your explanation of what RP is without it! As far as I am concerned, Grey Wardens are recruited from a "Suicide Hot Line", just like a suicide bomber is according to this guy! The only "True Grey Warden-wise" thing to do is jump off a cliff into a lava pit!



"silence! I'll killll you"

Modifié par RageGT, 30 décembre 2009 - 03:26 .

[sp0lh4us]

Sorry, what? Apart from that your reply is obviously meant to be some form of insult or pity, do

I have to dig out any sensible information from it?



But let me throw another off-topic insult at you: if you truly believe that "Grey Wardens are recruited

from a "Suicide Hot Line"" then do what you obviously do best: treat this game as you did before,

a fantasy combat simulator 'cos thats what it is for you, and post another awesome 'Look,

how COOL I am at killing' video on YouTube.

Meanwhile I go and jump into a lava pit, Thats what I should do RP-wise anyway...

[DragonRageGT]

Well, my post that you really should have done it (dig some sensible information or at least reading it and replying to it) you just took the last paragraph out of it to throw some... And that's Achmed... 100 million views... not of of mine DA movies... =)

[XOGHunter246]

The thing is mage towers has something and somone which is very useful meaning most people have to go there first.

[DragonRageGT]

Fandango9641 wrote...

I had no idea English was not your native language GT; your fluency is such it would be impossible to guess. Anyway lets be clear - I'm really not abusing you, rather I'm accusing you of lacking perspective with regards to this particular game. So whilst I realise that we are all entitled to our opinions and accept that this is an entirely appropriate venue to share them, I really do I wonder whether we should take seriously the views of a poster who has already claimed the game to be perfect and has uploaded about a million DAO related clips to Youtube in the short time the game has been out!!! I suspect Rage would be ready to draw his Internet swords and defend the game against any criticism, constructive or not (perhaps I’ll test this theory if this nonsense continues)?

So Rage, please be so kind as to take a look at yourself before accusing someone who advocates a cosmetic change to the game of being a “apocalyptic doomsayer”.

I hate the hypnotic squared thing... so allow me to quote just one of them, please.

Well, thanks for the fluency part and you did see me winking, right? I really don't defend the game blindly and I have my share of bugs to complain about. And they are far more serious and fun-killer to me than a cosmetic issue. And they may never be fixed because EA didn't do it with the exact same type of bug in a LotR RTS of theirs. (posted on tech support and that's the reply I got... "may never be fixed")

But I'm not alone in this particular issue. The one serious post I made about it had a nice comment from you while you still disagree with it. I respect that.

But then Spolh saying that I have little or no idea at all of what RP is a computer game is about? And supporting it saying that it is also because I don't go to Mage's Tower first? And rp-wise the game has no freedom???? The first expontaneous dialogue with Alistair right before entering Lothering says otherwise and "He's the real Grey Warden here". I just joined in for the ride because... as per the Origins:

1- to save my life
2- to save my life
3- to save my life
4- to save my life
5- to save my life
6- to save my life

I might agree, to an extend, that I have no idea of what RP truly means in a single player game, but BG and DA got my "absorbing involvement" and I say that in my review of the game for GameSpot, first one I ever dared to write. And after 5 years rp'ing a Sindarin Elven Archer, learning a bit of some real Sindarin language for that and receiving a fair share of rewards for that char that I created and played out as "the" role of my life, after struggling with RP at first, being constantly OOC and metagaming, speaking out loud when dead and learning, bit by bit of it, with the help of some truly amazing RP'ers, that was just quite a presumptious assumption. I have no idea of what RP is about?

I may not be an expert on it but I can sense metagaming 10,000 miles away (which I am, matter of fact). This whole issue discussed in this thread might be experienced with another eyes if the ones suffering it tried not to metagame and gave in to be more In Character-wise. For me and for a whole lot more people than not, the whole scaling issue is just an excuse to bash the game because it makes no difference once you are in character and used your OOC knowledge to make it more heroic (or rather, efficient). Then no gang of thugs anywhere in the game will have enough power to be compared to yours and your party.

Most of my movies (which I've never done before mainly because I didn't have fraps or a system good enough to handle 4GB movie edition) were made as a tribute to the game (those killing animations are epic), to capture some hilarious party banter (which are the most viewed in my collection) and to rebute those crazy claims that "Two Handed Warrior sucks", "Mages/healers are a must to survive", "No one can do this or that". Like I say in there, many people can and do it a lot better and with more finesse than I can, but I can just the same.

I don't think "look how cool I am at killing" when I'm making them. I also make them to watch the game from another perspective because I can't really do it while playing it. It is a hell of focus required fun task, for me, to beat the challenges the game throws at me. I like to just sit back and relax while seing what was that challenge all about.

And in the process I captured some cool moments, at least a few more people think so, like having that "epic" killing-in-a-duo with my character's loved one, after she had just said "we would be making a legend of our own"...

[Stitch808]

And this thread was looking so promising from the first page...

Anyway, I like the scaling. Forces users to use synergistic means to defeat the enemy, as opposed to going head to head, 1 v 1, for about 400 times.

[ladydesire]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Thank you for playing. I would summarise the main points as follows:

Beef:

Unsympathetic level\\\\item scaling destroys immersion for the sake of simplifying game design. 

Concession:

A degree of level scaling is necessary if the gamer is to be granted a certain level of freedom.

Recommendations:

Introduce a simple hierarchy for the scaling of our gaming adversaries. 

Mask level scaling with different (read more diverse) character models, designations and skills.

Include optional quests set at a capped level.

If someone with a level 20 character has trouble with adversaries that are no higher than level 18 (the level maximum for many areas in Denerim) is it level scaling or is it game difficulty? There is only one area in Denerim that has a higher level maximum, and to the best of my knowledge, the area previously mentioned isn't it.