654 réponses à ce sujet

[Old Books]

Lord_Dweedle wrote...

so many personal insults and attempts to make me feel bad.

no wonder hardly any new people play this game online, what a poor example of the BSN in this thread.

not sure what the age rating for ME3 is in other countrys but here its R13, so expecting.. adult quality debate and discussion may have been abit of a stretch.

Now I suggest you all agree with me, since it is the best option.  Kroguard needs nerf, it is cheap and overused, the opinions in this thread prove my point because there is so many angry people with a varren in their pants about the suggestion.

Yep, people on BSN can be arsey but your suggestions are based on faulty assumptions (stealing kills etc...) And I am no expert but more than the idea of a Kroguard nerf, the suggestion to give the Geth of all factions a sync kill is beyond ridiculous. I would agree to that if they didn't already use the physics-defying tactics they currently employ.

[Lord_Dweedle]

iyFale wrote...

An expected outcome. But I never say he's overpowered. He's meant to be like that. Rather than nerf kroguard we need buffs to other vanguards to balance things out.

this could work too, finally, a sensible different idea

[Destructo-Bot]

People are in a tizzy because you are making ludicrous suggestions regarding the one class that most here agree is properly balanced while at the same time being objectively WRONG regarding how to balance it your way. You want to take carnage away and give him WARP. Have you ever used a biotic class?

edit:

Lord_Dweedle wrote...

iyFale wrote...

An
expected outcome. But I never say he's overpowered. He's meant to be
like that. Rather than nerf kroguard we need buffs to other vanguards to
balance things out.

this could work too, finally, a sensible different idea

Wait, what? You think Kroguard is OP except if we buff the other vanguards then it's not OP because nothing about the Kroguard has changed? How does that make sense?

Modifié par Destructo-Bot, 07 octobre 2012 - 07:15 .

[Nelzeben]

Lord_Dweedle wrote...

its not trollish, it was an idea, one that, apparanty, has enraged the masses.

people really need to stop getting psychotic over suggestions.

I assume this is directed at me. I like how you conveniently ignored my other post. I wrote "somewhat trollish", because I'm not sure if you mean it or if you're just bored and looking for entertainment on the BSN.

I'm feeling neither enraged nor 'psychotic'. Also, "suggesting" people agree with you now, because you're clearly right is not the best of arguments.

[Lord_Dweedle]

Nelzeben wrote...

Lord_Dweedle wrote...

its not trollish, it was an idea, one that, apparanty, has enraged the masses.

people really need to stop getting psychotic over suggestions.

I assume this is directed at me. I like how you conveniently ignored my other post. I wrote "somewhat trollish", because I'm not sure if you mean it or if you're just bored and looking for entertainment on the BSN.

I'm feeling neither enraged nor 'psychotic'. Also, "suggesting" people agree with you now, because you're clearly right is not the best of arguments.

neither is a gang of pitchfork wielding kroguards screaming "noob", but people seem to think that argument is ok

[casamar]

I saw this thread and it inspired me to load up my Kroguard and melee everything.

Then I got overconfident and was sync killed by an Atlas. Twice

[Destructo-Bot]

Lord_Dweedle wrote...

Nelzeben wrote...

Lord_Dweedle wrote...

its not trollish, it was an idea, one that, apparanty, has enraged the masses.

people really need to stop getting psychotic over suggestions.

I
assume this is directed at me. I like how you conveniently ignored my
other post. I wrote "somewhat trollish", because I'm not sure if you
mean it or if you're just bored and looking for entertainment on the
BSN.

I'm feeling neither enraged nor 'psychotic'. Also,
"suggesting" people agree with you now, because you're clearly right is
not the best of arguments.

neither is a gang of pitchfork wielding kroguards screaming "noob", but people seem to think that argument is ok

Given your own posts that people in game are constantly yelling at you over the mic I'd think you'd be used to it by now... and that you haven't gotten the hint that maybe it's you.

Modifié par Destructo-Bot, 07 octobre 2012 - 07:17 .

[Ulrich282]

Vanguard made specifically to survive is able to survive in battle.

[Nelzeben]

Lord_Dweedle wrote...

Nelzeben wrote...

Lord_Dweedle wrote...

its not trollish, it was an idea, one that, apparanty, has enraged the masses.

people really need to stop getting psychotic over suggestions.

I assume this is directed at me. I like how you conveniently ignored my other post. I wrote "somewhat trollish", because I'm not sure if you mean it or if you're just bored and looking for entertainment on the BSN.

I'm feeling neither enraged nor 'psychotic'. Also, "suggesting" people agree with you now, because you're clearly right is not the best of arguments.

neither is a gang of pitchfork wielding kroguards screaming "noob", but people seem to think that argument is ok

I agree with you there. All those people merely posting "no" and not bothering to write down their argument are no better.

[Grunt_Platform]

Lord_Dweedle wrote...

Nelzeben wrote...

Lord_Dweedle wrote...

its not trollish, it was an idea, one that, apparanty, has enraged the masses.

people really need to stop getting psychotic over suggestions.

I assume this is directed at me. I like how you conveniently ignored my other post. I wrote "somewhat trollish", because I'm not sure if you mean it or if you're just bored and looking for entertainment on the BSN.

I'm feeling neither enraged nor 'psychotic'. Also, "suggesting" people agree with you now, because you're clearly right is not the best of arguments.

neither is a gang of pitchfork wielding kroguards screaming "noob", but people seem to think that argument is ok

To be blunt: A rational argument would take effort, and nothing in this thread is worth that.

You have not demonstrated any actual understanding of class balance, and your opening post basically anounced to the world that you won't even try to actually discuss the issue. Given that, even bothering to say this much is probably a waste of my time.

I'm amazed this post attracted so many replies, but it is fun to take part in such a unanimous vote.

Modifié par EvanKester, 07 octobre 2012 - 07:22 .

[Untonic]

theillusiveman11 wrote...

No

This.

I will not stand by for this Kroguard heresy

[Lord_Dweedle]

EvanKester wrote...

Lord_Dweedle wrote...

Nelzeben wrote...

Lord_Dweedle wrote...

its not trollish, it was an idea, one that, apparanty, has enraged the masses.

people really need to stop getting psychotic over suggestions.

I assume this is directed at me. I like how you conveniently ignored my other post. I wrote "somewhat trollish", because I'm not sure if you mean it or if you're just bored and looking for entertainment on the BSN.

I'm feeling neither enraged nor 'psychotic'. Also, "suggesting" people agree with you now, because you're clearly right is not the best of arguments.

neither is a gang of pitchfork wielding kroguards screaming "noob", but people seem to think that argument is ok

To be blunt: A rational argument would take effort, and nothing in this thread is worth that.

You have not demonstrated any actual understanding of class balance, and your opening post basically anounced to the world that you won't even try to actually discuss the issue. Given that, even bothering to say this much is probably a waste of my time.

I'm amazed this post attracted so many replies, but it is fun to take part in such a unanimous vote.

because the Kroguard is overpowered, there is no middle ground, either buff other classes or nerf the kroguard, something needs to be done to address the issue, ignoring it does nobody anygood

[MstrJedi Kyle]

theillusiveman11 wrote...

No

[Whoopsl]

Crimson Vanguard wrote...

Geth can stagger Kroguard now, so NO

[fatmancory]

Buff all the vanguards instead, The kroguard just Looks good in comparison to the rest. I suggest more shields.

[Grunt_Platform]

Lord_Dweedle wrote...

because the Kroguard is overpowered, there is no middle ground, either buff other classes or nerf the kroguard, something needs to be done to address the issue, ignoring it does nobody anygood

A) He isn't. He really isn't. At the very least, you have failed to make a convincing argument that he is.

Please compare the Kroguard with any of the following: Geth Infiltrator, Quarian Male Infiltrator, N7 Fury, Human Vanguard, Vorcha Sentinel, Drell Adept, Salarian Infiltrator, Turian Soldier, Batarian Soldier, N7 Destroyer.. and I'm sure I'm forgetting a few in there.

Nobody's ignoring anything. The issue either does not exist, or is highly exaggerated. See A.

C) That's no excuse to dismiss even the vague possibility that people might legitimately disagree with you because you might actually be wrong.

EDIT: And I might add, getting upset about personal attacks and a lack of rational debate... is rather poor form when you opened the thread by asserting your (highly misinformed) opinion as fact, and preemptively insulting anyone who would even think of disagreeing with you.

You reap what you sow.

Modifié par EvanKester, 07 octobre 2012 - 08:07 .

[Nitrocuban]

casamar wrote...I saw this thread and it inspired me to load up my Kroguard and melee everything.Then I got overconfident and was sync killed by an Atlas. Twice

We all know that feel, bro.

[OneTrueShot]

I prophesize that this guy needs a logic enema, because right now his logic is full of ****.

[JG The Gamer]

No.

[MrScottBear]

Lord_Dweedle wrote...

Nelzeben wrote...

Lord_Dweedle wrote...

its not trollish, it was an idea, one that, apparanty, has enraged the masses.

people really need to stop getting psychotic over suggestions.

I assume this is directed at me. I like how you conveniently ignored my other post. I wrote "somewhat trollish", because I'm not sure if you mean it or if you're just bored and looking for entertainment on the BSN.

I'm feeling neither enraged nor 'psychotic'. Also, "suggesting" people agree with you now, because you're clearly right is not the best of arguments.

neither is a gang of pitchfork wielding kroguards screaming "noob", but people seem to think that argument is ok

I countered your main points last page entirely logically without resorting to insulting you.  Lots of people are upset at you because you're not making good arguments.  Suggesting Warp instead of Carnage would make the Krogaurd vastly STRONGER rather than weaken him.

[SooperKinky]

no! :o:o:o:o

[Ryan_H]

The OP is not the brightest of posters...

[Hervana]

No, really? No. En to the oh.
Also, there's a waaaaahmbulance outside for a Mr Dweedle? Anyone know anything about that?

[Chealec]

OK - I skim-read about the first 10 pages and didn't see anyone put forward a strong argument as to why the Kroguard isn't overpowered... so I'll give it a shot (and I'm one of the people often labelled as a nerfer):

Firstly the Strengths of the KroGuard:
He's tough ... really, really tough with huge health and shields, Barrier and can Biotic charge to regenerate shields. Against Geth, with no synch-kill units he is nigh on unkillable (if played well).

... but that's it. That's his only strength; admittedly it's a good one, not being able to die against Geth unless you're careless (yes, even with the Combat Drone's Incinerate it's still easy to survive as a Krogaurd vs Geth).


The weaknesses of the KroGuard:
Apart from detonating barrier or equipping a falcon, he has no crowd control ability - nothing like Nova, Cluster Grenades, Smash, Biotic Slash or Phase Disruptor. Vanguards are traditionally a class that runs 'n' guns and destroys mook spawns very quicky - the way you do that with a KroGuard relies entirely on either your gun or your fists.

This means that you're either going to want to strap on a Reegar, a Piranha, a Wraith, a Raider, a Graal or maybe a Talon or a Hurricane... and because the Kroguard doesn't have the increased weight capacity that other Krogan have anything there apart from a high-level Talon or Hurricane is going to affect your cooldowns; and the Kroguard already has the slowest Charge cooldown of all the Vanguards, further compounded by the fact that Barrier increases your cooldowns further.

Maybe you decide to go more "punchy" and use a Talon with a Melee Stunner. This puts the Kroguard directly up against a melee specced Krentinel and, with the exception of Biotic Charge being able to get you into the fray quicker and recharge your shields, the Krentinel is better is almost every way.

The Krentinel doesn't need to care about cooldowns, has better damage reduction, Tech Armour has a much better Detonation effect and in a large mob of enemies the Krentinel can clear the room with Lift grenades... the Kroguard can detonate Barrier, as long as he's not in cooldown from Charging, but doing so means he won't be able to Charge again until the Barrier cooldown as finished. The differece in Health/Shields between the Krentinel and Kroguard, if they're both melee specced, isn't that much.

The final downside is the same that all Krogan have, low mobility... since he was never able to be stunlocked by the Geth it wasn't really an issue fighting them. But then, no Krogan suffer from stunlock any more so this isn't really an advantage when compared to any other Krogan, or even Batarian now. However, the Kroguard, like everyone else is staggered by the Combat Drone's Incinerate - so he's actually marginally worse against the Geth than he was before the patch. When not playing against Geth his low mobility means the Kroguard is probably more likely to get synch-killed than any other Vanguard.


tl;dr
In short the Kroguard isn't really overpowered... he's got lots of heath and shields and the ability to regenerate shields with Biotic Charge... BUT he's a CQC, one-hit wonder, most of his damage output is focused on one target at a time and when not playing Geth, odds are that one target can synch-kill you. He doesn't have the crowd-control or mobility of the other Vanguards and he's not as good a melee fighter as either of the other Krogan - so he's reliant on both guns and cooldowns which means you're gonna have to compromise a bit.

He's an easy-to-use, hard-to-kill Tank but (unless you're using the Reegar maybe) he doesn't actually have that high a damage output or decent crowd control.

[DarthSliver]

Lord_Dweedle wrote...

 Their biotic charge should only restore 50% or 75% of their barrier, not the whole thing, it is utterly insane the amount of punishment they can take.

Secondly, make it so the Geth have some insta-kill moves, a Kroguard in a Geth game is a giant show off who goes around kill stealing and generally making the game unenjoyable for everyone else.  Kill moves on Geth Primes is possibly all that is needed, or give some Geth units the ability to drain shields and barriers for themselves.

Thirdly, make it so their melee is stronger against HP and Shields but decrease its effectiveness against Armor and Barriers, this will balance out their melee capabilities.

Fourthly, Get rid of Carnage and give them Warp, Shockwave or another useful biotic power, to make them have some ranged effectiveness.

The class is overpowered, anyone who thinks otherwise either exclusivly plays as Kroguards or leeches off Kroguards.

Its getting rediculous how this has not been addressed.

Your statement became invalid when you said "kill stealing" last i checked this was a team based MP. Kill Stealing is for the fools that think their points matter over getting through the rounds to the end .