654 réponses à ce sujet

[Schachmatt123]

Sorry, doublepost.

Modifié par Schachmatt, 07 octobre 2012 - 11:07 .

[Schachmatt123]

It is obvious that the OP is butthurt, because in one of his bronze games a Kroguard scored more than him. Now he is mimimimimi. Because we all know, the most important thing in this game are the shiny, precious medals.

How pityful.

Edit:

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

A Novaguard is as much a tank as a Kroguard. Should BioWare nerf the Novaguard too?

They should nerf the yelling of the Human VG's

Modifié par Schachmatt, 07 octobre 2012 - 11:09 .

[Xaijin]

The Novaguard is more a of tank than the Kroguard. The Kroguard's max actual DR is about 60%, the novaguard is completely immune to anything during and up to three sequences per power use at about half a second a pop.

This thread is spectacularly stupid.

Modifié par Xaijin, 07 octobre 2012 - 11:11 .

[Cyonan]

Xaijin wrote...

The Novaguard is more a of tank than the Kroguard. The Kroguard's max actual DR is about 60%, the novaguard is completely immune to anything during and up to three sequences per power use at about half a second a pop.

This thread is spectacularly stupid.

As I pointed out, it's actually 90%.

Biotic Charge grants 50% DR(37.5% true DR) whenever you use it for a few seconds after the immunity effect ends.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Cyonan wrote...

To be perfectly fair OP, gold is the default standard because everything is OP on Bronze/Silver when played well, and Platinum gets considered gimmicky by a lot of people and has a massive emphasis on boss killers like the Destroyer or Infiltrators.

As to why the Kroguard is overpowered, it's because of Rage being fixed. Tanks are supposed to be highly durable, they are supposed to hold the attention of the enemy, and they are supposed to control the battlefield. The second two are more MMOish and don't really happen in ME3 MP, so I'll just stick to durability.

Without Rage the Kroguard is a tank. He is durable but he can still die from a lot of concentrated fire.

With Rage up, the Kroguard has ascended beyond tank and is now an unstoppable bullet sponge that only dies to sync kills. The total DR the Kroguard has is now:

30-40% Barrier depending on spec
50% Biotic Charge
30% Rage if full defensive spec

That means 82.5 - 90% total damage reduction while rage is up. which can also now be triggered by Biotic Charge.

Full defensive spec requires you to give up the melee bonuses though, and those are what lets a kroguard kill mid level mooks (centurions, rocket troops, etc) in one blow. Nevermind that rage needs you to either melee or use charge, and I've had inconsistent results with charge granting rage.

You also only get that biotic charge DR for, what, one second after charge? If you've got your barrier on it'll take several seconds simply for charge to cool down, during which point you're vulnerable. Particularly to pyros and hunters.

The Novaguard is more a of tank than the Kroguard. The Kroguard's max actual
DR is about 60%, the novaguard is completely immune to anything during
and up to three sequences per power use at about half a second a pop.

Novaguard also has an amazing CC ability in nova; Kroguard wishes he could kill things as fast.

Modifié par Cpl_Facehugger, 07 octobre 2012 - 11:16 .

[Rokayt]

Yeah.... That Kroguard has the potential to get about 12 X as tanky as any other character in the game (And actually manages it easily.)

Cpl_Facehugger wrote...

You also only get that biotic charge DR for, what, one second after charge?

Four seconds, according to coalesced.

Modifié par Rokayt, 07 octobre 2012 - 11:17 .

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Air Quotes wrote...

That you can solo Geth Gold on Glacier faster than a GI or QMI ( in 16 min) by just standing in front of an entire Geth army spraying Reegar and waiting for your Charge to recharge and not eve lose barrier is pretty ridiculous. 

How is this even possible? No, seriously, I don't understand the build that would enable this.

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

Air Quotes wrote...

That you can solo Geth Gold on Glacier faster than a GI or QMI ( in 16 min) by just standing in front of an entire Geth army spraying Reegar and waiting for your Charge to recharge and not eve lose barrier is pretty ridiculous.

That you can solo Platinum with it in 28 minutes is also ridiculous.

It wouldn't work now, since they fixed the Reegar glitch. You can't reload your Reegar while doing a BC, and the stagger from any geth will interrupt your reload.

Cpl_Facehugger wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

That you can solo Geth Gold on Glacier faster than a GI or QMI ( in 16 min) by just standing in front of an entire Geth army spraying Reegar and waiting for your Charge to recharge and not eve lose barrier is pretty ridiculous. 

How is this even possible? No, seriously, I don't understand the build that would enable this. 

Reegar X+ plenty of consummables (either AP IV or Incendiary IV)

Modifié par Jay_Hoxtatron, 07 octobre 2012 - 11:19 .

[Grunt_Platform]

Cyonan wrote...

To be perfectly fair OP, gold is the default standard because everything is OP on Bronze/Silver when played well, and Platinum gets considered gimmicky by a lot of people and has a massive emphasis on boss killers like the Destroyer or Infiltrators.

As to why the Kroguard is overpowered, it's because of Rage being fixed. Tanks are supposed to be highly durable, they are supposed to hold the attention of the enemy, and they are supposed to control the battlefield. The second two are more MMOish and don't really happen in ME3 MP, so I'll just stick to durability.

Without Rage the Kroguard is a tank. He is durable but he can still die from a lot of concentrated fire.

With Rage up, the Kroguard has ascended beyond tank and is now an unstoppable bullet sponge that only dies to sync kills. The total DR the Kroguard has is now:

30-40% Barrier depending on spec
50% Biotic Charge
30% Rage if full defensive spec

That means 82.5 - 90% total damage reduction while rage is up. which can also now be triggered by Biotic Charge.

Thanks for providing the argument Dweedle can't grasp the necessity of.

At first glance, I look at those numbers and I do go "whoa, that's a lot," but in practice, I've not found that it makes him that much dangerous with a Reegar than any other class. With a full defensive spec, he needs to get 3 biotic charge or melee kills within a 30 second window to keep up his Rage—and using the Reegar during that rage removes kills that could be used to reactivate Rage. For a more powerful melee build he's losing 5-10% of his damage reduction, and a hefty chunk of health too.

When I compare what a Kroguard can do there, to what a Quarian Male Infiltrator can do to the same spawn group, using the same Reegar and spicing it up with Arc Grenades... I think things favor the QMI. Vorcha Sentinel has to hit and run a bit more, but can certainly engage at the same range and ignores damage about as well. The Kroguard's really really durable but I just don't see what problems this causes for the game as a whole, other than being an easy delivery system for Reegar spam.

Forcing the Kroguard to choose a bit more between damage reduction and offensive power sounds fair to me though, especially since the Kroguard suffers a lot from Obvious-Build Syndrome. Reducing some of his damage reduction could work (I'd cut some off of Biotic Charge's innate DR if possible). I just don't see what's necessary about it.


As for tanking—by not cloaking, and fighting at short range with enemies, the Kroguard does actually encourage enemies to focus on him before targeting his allies (this was discussed in the RFI on enemy detection thread). I... don't really see what good that does though, since Decoy does the same job better anyway. He can help a bit with device and hack objectives by drawing enemies away I guess.

Modifié par EvanKester, 07 octobre 2012 - 11:21 .

[Rokayt]

Cpl_Facehugger wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

That you can solo Geth Gold on Glacier faster than a GI or QMI ( in 16 min) by just standing in front of an entire Geth army spraying Reegar and waiting for your Charge to recharge and not eve lose barrier is pretty ridiculous. 

How is this even possible? No, seriously, I don't understand the build that would enable this.

Eat.
Your.
Words.

[Cyonan]

Cpl_Facehugger wrote...

Full defensive spec requires you to give up the melee bonuses though, and those are what lets a kroguard kill mid level mooks (centurions, rocket troops, etc) in one blow. Nevermind that rage needs you to either melee or use charge, and I've had inconsistent results with charge granting rage.

You also only get that biotic charge DR for, what, one second after charge? If you've got your barrier on it'll take several seconds simply for charge to cool down, during which point you're vulnerable. Particularly to pyros and hunters.

I play highly defensive with Martial Artist over Shield Recharge and Power Recharge over Barrier Strength, with everything else being "more durability".

It's really not hard even on Gold to get melee kills with that setup as long as you use the melee mod on either a Pistol, AR, or Shotgun.

Charge's DR lasts 4 seconds, with Charge having a cooldown of 4.75 seconds in my build. The up time on the DR is 84%. You are not that vulnerable because of it.

On Gold with Rage up I can take an Atlas rocket and barely even notice that I got hit. It's about 10% of my Barrier.

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

Rokayt wrote...

Cpl_Facehugger wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

That you can solo Geth Gold on Glacier faster than a GI or QMI ( in 16 min) by just standing in front of an entire Geth army spraying Reegar and waiting for your Charge to recharge and not eve lose barrier is pretty ridiculous. 

How is this even possible? No, seriously, I don't understand the build that would enable this.

Eat.
Your.
Words.

If anything, it's the Reegar that is incredibly good.

[Blennus]

Keeping your rage up takes time. It's faster to just kill enemies with your gun than it is to charge-kill them (or damage them enough then charge-kill them). If you are particular to keep your rage up, you probably won't be 1st on the scoreboard.

Just for some overkill, if you heavy melee to the mix and have your rage going then you can get 100% DR during your HM animation. That still doesn't make this guy immortal.

Besides the question is, does it prevent others from enjoying the game, not: how hard it is to kill a kroguard. Granted kroguards are the easiest class to ease into gold, and probably takes less skill to get decent at compared to saaay a GI.

I will agree however, the class could use some changes (such as to the carnage ability).

[Rokayt]

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

Rokayt wrote...

Cpl_Facehugger wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

That you can solo Geth Gold on Glacier faster than a GI or QMI ( in 16 min) by just standing in front of an entire Geth army spraying Reegar and waiting for your Charge to recharge and not eve lose barrier is pretty ridiculous. 

How is this even possible? No, seriously, I don't understand the build that would enable this.

Eat.
Your.
Words.

If anything, it's the Reegar that is incredibly good.

Never needing to take cover pre-patch means a helluvalot too.

[Xaijin]

Cyonan wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

The Novaguard is more a of tank than the Kroguard. The Kroguard's max actual DR is about 60%, the novaguard is completely immune to anything during and up to three sequences per power use at about half a second a pop.

This thread is spectacularly stupid.

As I pointed out, it's actually 90%.

Biotic Charge grants 50% DR(37.5% true DR) whenever you use it for a few seconds after the immunity effect ends.

If I recall it's lower than that much closer to like 67-78% actual, but I can't be assed to look up the numbers in memory, I can tell you from just getting out of game it sure as hell isn't 90% simply based on visual evidence and the fact that a BatMan still has higher DR in an AJA bubble during melee. Since his was about what, 85%, 90 seems a little excessive, and I certainly haven't seen anything like that over the past couple of days, and have in fact had my face shot off a couple times by hunters and ravagers immediately after a charge.

In any case, even if you're absolutely right, completely immune to damage > any percentile aggregate, which pretty much invalidates this entire thread.

Modifié par Xaijin, 07 octobre 2012 - 11:27 .

[Wolfsbladex]

Is this post serious or is this guy stupid retarded?

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

Air Quotes wrote...

That you can solo Geth Gold on Glacier faster than a GI or QMI ( in 16 min) by just standing in front of an entire Geth army spraying Reegar and waiting for your Charge to recharge and not eve lose barrier is pretty ridiculous.

That you can solo Platinum with it in 28 minutes is also ridiculous.

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...
It wouldn't work now, since they fixed the Reegar glitch. You can't reload your Reegar while doing a BC, and the stagger from any geth will interrupt your reload.

Air Quotes wrote...
Well maybe you'll lose 2 minutes tops. But he can still stand there with no sh**s given. And with Rage fixed the DR is insane. 

Since the patch, the Kroguard is less efficient as killing things, but he is tankier. 
And the fact that enemies cannot synckill if they are not on the same elevation is what makes him insane. He can simply soak up the damage. Without this, the solo would have taken much longer. [Forced to run around]

Modifié par Jay_Hoxtatron, 07 octobre 2012 - 11:27 .

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Rokayt wrote...

Cpl_Facehugger wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

That you can solo Geth Gold on Glacier faster than a GI or QMI ( in 16 min) by just standing in front of an entire Geth army spraying Reegar and waiting for your Charge to recharge and not eve lose barrier is pretty ridiculous. 

How is this even possible? No, seriously, I don't understand the build that would enable this.

Eat.
Your.
Words.

Huh. Okay. So it's possible. Color me shocked. I thought for sure it was exageration.

Mind you, it takes max level gear and consumables, and no small degree of luck and skill, considering how the kroguard in question managed his enemies' aggro.

I can't say I've found normal kroguard players to be anywhere near as proficient. Indeed, I've used the same build (substituting the reegar since I've got like a reegar 4) and my performance is nowhere near as good. 

Four seconds, according to coalesced.

Really? I can't say I've noticed that. I roll with a full tank kroguard who tries to stay in rage at all times and my DR definitely doesn't feel like 90%.

Modifié par Cpl_Facehugger, 07 octobre 2012 - 11:35 .

[Xaijin]

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

That you can solo Geth Gold on Glacier faster than a GI or QMI ( in 16 min) by just standing in front of an entire Geth army spraying Reegar and waiting for your Charge to recharge and not eve lose barrier is pretty ridiculous.

That you can solo Platinum with it in 28 minutes is also ridiculous.

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...
It wouldn't work now, since they fixed the Reegar glitch. You can't reload your Reegar while doing a BC, and the stagger from any geth will interrupt your reload.

Air Quotes wrote...
Well maybe you'll lose 2 minutes tops. But he can still stand there with no sh**s given. And with Rage fixed the DR is insane. 

Since the patch, the Kroguard is less efficient as killing things, but he is tankier. 
And the fact that enemies cannot synckill if they are not on the same elevation is what makes him insane. He can simply soak up the damage. Without this, the solo would have taken much longer. [Forced to run around]

I've been synckilled twice at different elevations by banshees.

[Blennus]

Possible, but very unlikely. Probably due to lag.

[Rokayt]

Cpl_Facehugger wrote...

Rokayt wrote...

Cpl_Facehugger wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

That you can solo Geth Gold on Glacier faster than a GI or QMI ( in 16 min) by just standing in front of an entire Geth army spraying Reegar and waiting for your Charge to recharge and not eve lose barrier is pretty ridiculous. 

How is this even possible? No, seriously, I don't understand the build that would enable this.

Eat.
Your.
Words.

Huh. Okay. So it's possible. Color me shocked. I thought for sure it was exageration.

Mind you, it takes max level gear and consumables, and no small degree of luck and skill, considering how the kroguard in question managed his enemies' aggro.

I can't say I've found normal kroguard players to be anywhere near as proficient. Indeed, I've used the same build (substituting the reegar since I've got like a reegar 4) and my performance is nowhere near as good. 

You really have to take your time to master something in order to learn its limitations.

Given most people are not capable of keeping up with a perfectly utilized Raptor when using the Harrier..............

[Xaijin]

Cpl_Facehugger wrote...

Rokayt wrote...

Cpl_Facehugger wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

That you can solo Geth Gold on Glacier faster than a GI or QMI ( in 16 min) by just standing in front of an entire Geth army spraying Reegar and waiting for your Charge to recharge and not eve lose barrier is pretty ridiculous. 

How is this even possible? No, seriously, I don't understand the build that would enable this.

Eat.
Your.
Words.

Huh. Okay. So it's possible. Color me shocked. I thought for sure it was exageration.

Mind you, it takes max level gear and consumables, and no small degree of luck and skill, considering how the kroguard in question managed his enemies' aggro.

I can't say I've found normal kroguard players to be anywhere near as proficient. Indeed, I've used the same build (substituting the reegar since I've got like a reegar 4) and my performance is nowhere near as good. 

He's also boxing his enemy's field of fire to limit the amount of characters that can hit him in the open, which has nothing to do with being a krogan vanguard.

Modifié par Xaijin, 07 octobre 2012 - 11:32 .