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Bioware's best games in the fantasy genre all have one thing in common


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#26
MillKill

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ScarMK wrote...

MillKill wrote...

FaWa wrote...

FEMALE DWARVES AS NOT ONLY EXISTANT, BUT PLAYABLE


Baldurs Gate, known as the first and second best RPG of its kind. 
Baldurs Gate 2, known as the best RPG in history 
Neverwinter Nights, a game met with massive critical acclaim and fan love. 
Dragon Age Origins, The best modern RPG 

All of these have playable femdwarves. 


Poor BioWare Fantasy Games:

Dragon Age 2, enjoyed only by payed IGN writers and Chris Hoban

Does not have female Dwarves




Let us now assume the following formula

Bioware game+Female Dwarves=Sucess 
Bioware games-Female Dwarves=Failure 


Enlightening, isn't it?


Dragon Age 2 is superior to DAO. Your argument is invalid.


Bahahahahahaha.  Your opinion but still.


Combat that was a fun hack-and-slash  and didn't pretend to be tactical simply by being slow and unwieldy like Origins

Clean graphics with sharp contrasts instead of blurry brown ugliness

Voiced Protagonist

Friendship/Rivalry System

More Fleshed out companions

Greater differences between classes

Better combat animations

Shoulder pads that didn't block your view of the conversation in half the scenes

No time-wasting Deep Roads or Fade Sections

A tragic story as opposed to overused epic save-the-world story

More interesting conflict than a horde of mindless monsters

A relatable protagonist that isn't a incapable of failure

No giving 50 necklaces to make your companions like you

Better interface

Better ability trees

#27
ScarMK

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MillKill wrote...

ScarMK wrote...

MillKill wrote...

FaWa wrote...

FEMALE DWARVES AS NOT ONLY EXISTANT, BUT PLAYABLE


Baldurs Gate, known as the first and second best RPG of its kind. 
Baldurs Gate 2, known as the best RPG in history 
Neverwinter Nights, a game met with massive critical acclaim and fan love. 
Dragon Age Origins, The best modern RPG 

All of these have playable femdwarves. 


Poor BioWare Fantasy Games:

Dragon Age 2, enjoyed only by payed IGN writers and Chris Hoban

Does not have female Dwarves




Let us now assume the following formula

Bioware game+Female Dwarves=Sucess 
Bioware games-Female Dwarves=Failure 


Enlightening, isn't it?


Dragon Age 2 is superior to DAO. Your argument is invalid.


Bahahahahahaha.  Your opinion but still.


Combat that was a fun hack-and-slash  and didn't pretend to be tactical simply by being slow and unwieldy like Origins -

   I'll give you that it wasn't very tactical, but slow combat and being unweildy didn't make it so.


Clean graphics with sharp contrasts instead of blurry brown ugliness -


     Opinion.  My view is the other way around.

Voiced Protagonist -

   For some people this breaks immersion, and for some it doesn't.  But it greatly limits the choices the player can say.  Origins didn't have much to begin with and DA2 had even less than that.

Friendship/Rivalry System -

   The only benefit of this system is you don't need to brown nose them to learn a bit more about them.  But the fact that they would follow Hawke along the entire game doing things they were morally against, just no.

More Fleshed out companions -

  If by fleshed out you mean extremists, then yes.  Varric and possibly Isabela are exceptions.  If not, both games gave about the same companion content.  Give or take.

Greater differences between classes -

  Really?  Things were pretty much the same as Origins.  Warriors were the tanks/damage dealers, Rogues excelled on a single target, and mages were crowd control/support.

Better combat animations -

  Opinion.

Shoulder pads that didn't block your view of the conversation in half the scenes -

    Agreed that the shoulder pads were bulky and unneeded.

No time-wasting Deep Roads or Fade Sections -

     Fun the first time, then it's a grind/chore, but that happens to every thing that isn't dynamic.   This applies to both games.

A tragic story as opposed to overused epic save-the-world story -

   What exactly is tragic about it?  Hawke losing some family members?  A bunch of innocents dying?  Two crazed authority figures and a religous figure who refuses to step in?  Hawke didn't even need to be in Kirkwall for it happen. 

More interesting conflict than a horde of mindless monsters -
 
    Again, it comes down to opinion.

A relatable protagonist that isn't a incapable of failure - 

     The only time Hawke "fails" is when the player has no control, eg Bethany/Carver's death.  Other than that, it's next to impossible to fail and the few times you do, it's a slap on the wrist with very little to no consequence.  Idunna is a good example,  I reloaded that part several times trying to see if Hawke would kill themselves, but no, you can break her grasp no matter what you do.

No giving 50 necklaces to make your companions like you -

     I didn't realize the game forced you to give them the gifts.  Morrigan is the only exception and even then her quest is optional.  Giving gifts overall gives the player the ability to have what happens in their mind outside the game, to be reflected in game.  I want to pretend my character went to a pub with my companions and teased Alistair about his virginity and drunkenly hit on Leliana, gift spams allow me to have that represented in game. I'm more than happy to allow players to gift spam because it's completely optional.


Better interface -

    A different look, junk tab, and a star rating system that made little sense.

Better ability trees -

     Agreed that it is better than the linear system in Origins.




In the end, it's all opinion.  No amount of arguing or debating will sway either side.

#28
The Teyrn of Whatever

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I agree. What the hell happened to female dwarves in DA II?

#29
scootermcgaffin

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Two comments here:

1. MillKill, I am almost convinced that I have a double life as you. We agree on so much here lol

2. Let's be honest, people. Neverwinter Nights, on its own, was pretty awful. What made it so great was its expansions and the huge amount of actually pretty decent user-made mods for the game.

#30
Inquisitor Recon

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This theory makes perfect sense.

#31
MillKill

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ScarMK wrote...

   I'll give you that it wasn't very tactical, but slow combat and being unweildy didn't make it so.

I don't understand your point. Origins wasn't tactical. Neither was DA2. 2 stopped pretending to be and sped things up, improving the game.


 Opinion.  My view is the other way around.

Opinion. True. I prefer a cleaner, mildly stylized look to more brown evrywhere.

Voiced Protagonist -

   For some people this breaks immersion, and for some it doesn't.  But it greatly limits the choices the player can say.  Origins didn't have much to begin with and DA2 had even less than that.

It does not limit the choices a player can say any more than a silent protagonist. You still pick dialogue options, just like in Origins. Here, it is more engaging and the PC feels much more connected to the world.


   The only benefit of this system is you don't need to brown nose them to learn a bit more about them.  But the fact that they would follow Hawke along the entire game doing things they were morally against, just no.

They did the same thing in Origins. Here, you could actually gain rewards for consistent roleplaying.


If by fleshed out you mean extremists, then yes.  Varric and possibly
Isabela are exceptions.  If not, both games gave about the same
companion content.  Give or take.


  Your companions had more quests and their dialogue was paced throughout the game. They also served as effective viewpoints for the main conflicts.


  Really?  Things were pretty much the same as Origins.  Warriors were the tanks/damage dealers, Rogues excelled on a single target, and mages were crowd control/support.

Warriors were terrible at both and played much the same as rogues. Now, rogues are more acrobatic and are hyperfocused on single-target damage. Mages did everything better than either class in Origins. Now they're actually meant for cc/support.


Opinion.


True, but I'd take Rogues' acrobatic style, Warriors' faster style, and Magess more physical style animations over the shuffling, slow, half-hearted animations of Origins. Plus, finishing moves are no longer there to waste time and make warriors/rogues even more useless than they already were.
 

    Agreed that the shoulder pads were bulky and unneeded.

Glad we can agree on that. Also, the mage hats were less atrocious.

     Fun the first time, then it's a grind/chore, but that happens to every thing that isn't dynamic.   This applies to both games.

They don't take 3-4 hours in 2, though.

   What exactly is tragic about it?  Hawke losing some family members?  A bunch of innocents dying?  Two crazed authority figures and a religous figure who refuses to step in?  Hawke didn't even need to be in Kirkwall for it happen. 

Yes, he/she did. If they hadn't gotten the idol, Meredith wouldn't go bonkers. If he hadn't helped Anders in Act 1, the climax couldn't happen. If he hadn't stopped the Qunari, Orsino and possibly Meredith would have die and Act 3 might have been averted. Hawke losing his family was sad, but the real tragedy was that the world got much worse as a war broke out that Hawke couldn't stop.
 
    Again, it comes down to opinion.


True, but I'll take a conflict between people with actual ideologies over people vs. Always Chaotic Evil Demon Orcs.

     The only time Hawke "fails" is when the player has no control, eg Bethany/Carver's death.  Other than that, it's next to impossible to fail and the few times you do, it's a slap on the wrist with very little to no consequence.  Idunna is a good example,  I reloaded that part several times trying to see if Hawke would kill themselves, but no, you can break her grasp no matter what you do.


He fails to save his mother. He fails to save the Viscount. He fails to prevent the Qunari attacking. He fails to stop the war breaking out


     I didn't realize the game forced you to give them the gifts.  Morrigan is the only exception and even then her quest is optional.  Giving gifts overall gives the player the ability to have what happens in their mind outside the game, to be reflected in game.  I want to pretend my character went to a pub with my companions and teased Alistair about his virginity and drunkenly hit on Leliana, gift spams allow me to have that represented in game. I'm more than happy to allow players to gift spam because it's completely optional.

Unless you play a good character who likes to bring Morrigan along for combat and has to constantly give her gifts to make up for her disaproval to unlock dialogue and stat bonuses. The rivalry system was a far more elegant way of handling this.



A different look, junk tab, and a star rating system that made little sense.
Or a system that made finding out your resistances, armor, dps, damage, defense, and abity details far easier and more convenient.


Agreed that it is better than the linear system in Origins.
:lol:


In the end, it's all opinion.  No amount of arguing or debating will sway either side.


This is an internet forum! Meaningless arguments are the whole point ! :P

#32
Allan Schumacher

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Dragon Age 2, enjoyed only by payed IGN writers and Chris Hoban


Not a good way to endear a thread to me in order to keep it open.