287 réponses à ce sujet

[garrusfan1]

Dregegoir I think that there should be some sacrifice but that is a form of happy ending I like so something like DAO would be great but I really want something besides a slideshow something with more feeling to it although I would like something that wraps it up like the slideshow did where it basically said this is what happened to orzammar and the dalish and the small stuff too like the grey warden Inn in red cliff

[Nilbog79]

DreGregoire wrote...

garrusfan1 wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

garrusfan1 wrote...

I said an option for a happy ending

And few people can agree on what that actually means or if it makes sense to the story.

I edited the title post but some sacrifice is alright but the hero and LI living and a sense that I won and didn't lose everything.

So then, in your mind the only thing that makes it a happy ending is the above bolded? There is nothing wrong with feeling that way, but not everybody agrees that those things equal a happy ending. Other people are looking for different indicators of a happy ending.

Probably for a majority of players this will be enough to constitute a 'happy' ending. They could always do something like the epilogue from DAO where it does through all the consequences of the choices you've made but unfortunately it's unlikely Bioware will be able or willing to pull something like that off anymore.

[frostajulie]

M25105 wrote...

One more thing, the thread is about having the option for a happy ending, yet this forum is filled with crying "NO" what the hell? You keep your crappy ending for yourself, cause it's "realistic" (which is a freaking joke in a game where you shoot fire out of your hands) and we'll have our happy endings at the same time, cause we like feeling like a hero that accomplished something and not some sort of failed tragic hero.

Agreed!

[PsychoBlonde]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I agree with things like Harrowmont and whatnot.  It's things like that that I really like.  Bhelen is quite belligerent and if you went Dwarf Noble the reasoning behind trusting him is even less.  But siding with Harrowmont ultimately is bad for Orzammar.  I would not like it if there was a way to side with Harrowmont, and then you can go off and do some extra stuff to ensure Orzammar still becomes awesome under Harrowmont's rule.

I just replayed Origins, and I disagree that siding with Harrowmont is "bad for Orzammar".  Yes, you do get an epilogue that implies Harrowmont was basically ineffectual except at increasing dwarven withdrawel from the surface, and then later Harrowmont gets sick and dies because he's an old dude.  At no point does it say "this is a very bad thing".

You could argue that Bhelen was "bad for Orzammar"--sure, he increased surface traffic.  At the cost of assassinations and tyrrany.

There's no indication that either one of these options is "better" in the long term.  I actually decided to go with Harrowmont BECAUSE he's old and won't hold the throne for long, meaning that not only will the assembly be looking for a replacement soon, but the entire assembly may be more open to progressive policies as a reaction to Harrowmont's rule.  Plus Harrowmont is honest, unlike Bhelen.

I actually enjoyed DA2's level of reactivity except at the very end when I could not tell Meredith to take a long walk off a short pier.  I found the little "follow-up" notes you get after some quests "Hi, just writing to tell you that I'm Doing Fine at Summer Camp . . ." to be silly and pointless.  If there's going to be follow-up, I'd prefer to have later quests that depend upon whether/how you do early quests.

I'm also glad ya'll decided NOT to have a post-game epilogue in DA2, considering that much of what was stated in the post-game wrapup in Origins got ignored, anyway.  I'm not playing these games for the happily-ever-after, necessarily.

[Fiacre]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I agree with things like Harrowmont and whatnot.  It's things like that that I really like.  Bhelen is quite belligerent and if you went Dwarf Noble the reasoning behind trusting him is even less.  But siding with Harrowmont ultimately is bad for Orzammar.  I would not like it if there was a way to side with Harrowmont, and then you can go off and do some extra stuff to ensure Orzammar still becomes awesome under Harrowmont's rule.

I just replayed Origins, and I disagree that siding with Harrowmont is "bad for Orzammar".  Yes, you do get an epilogue that implies Harrowmont was basically ineffectual except at increasing dwarven withdrawel from the surface, and then later Harrowmont gets sick and dies because he's an old dude.  At no point does it say "this is a very bad thing".

You could argue that Bhelen was "bad for Orzammar"--sure, he increased surface traffic.  At the cost of assassinations and tyrrany.

There's no indication that either one of these options is "better" in the long term.  I actually decided to go with Harrowmont BECAUSE he's old and won't hold the throne for long, meaning that not only will the assembly be looking for a replacement soon, but the entire assembly may be more open to progressive policies as a reaction to Harrowmont's rule.  Plus Harrowmont is honest, unlike Bhelen.

I actually enjoyed DA2's level of reactivity except at the very end when I could not tell Meredith to take a long walk off a short pier.  I found the little "follow-up" notes you get after some quests "Hi, just writing to tell you that I'm Doing Fine at Summer Camp . . ." to be silly and pointless.  If there's going to be follow-up, I'd prefer to have later quests that depend upon whether/how you do early quests.

I'm also glad ya'll decided NOT to have a post-game epilogue in DA2, considering that much of what was stated in the post-game wrapup in Origins got ignored, anyway.  I'm not playing these games for the happily-ever-after, necessarily.

Try Harrowmont with Golems. He doesn't seem nearly as nice then. Bhelen on the other hand is a reformer and might actually dag Orzammar forward instead f letting it continue to stagnate... But you need to be able to stomach his methods. It's sort of ends justify the means.

And personally, I liked the notes, I just don't think it worked ll that well with the time skips in some cases. It made it look like stuff was actually happening that Hawke didn't directly see and those NPCs didn't drop of the face of Thedas as soon as their associated quests had ended.

[frostajulie]

guntar74 wrote...

I just want an ending were I can feel like I accomplished alot and be proud of it.

Games used to deliver this all the time.  Mario brothers, Zelda, every nameless RPG I played growing up the common element in them all is at the end I felt victorious, uplifted, I had changed the world and all was good and those puny people in line at walmart would fall at my feet if they knew what good I had done.

I'm just saying a happy ending used to be standard, the norm and I miss those games.  I miss that feeling.  Bioware delivered that feeling for me in ME1 and 2, they deliered it in DAO and I was never really too disappointed in the end of DA2 but while I enjoyed that game I never loved it like I did the others I have mentioned.

ME3 ended with complete failure no matter what.  It was quite literally like going to a birthday party and there was no cake, no presents, no ice cream, no pony rides and the people at the party you did not even like. Quite literall a horrible and abhorrent experience you have certain expectations and then none of them are met and hours later years even if you add up the time you spend playing the prequels and then everything you've come to care about and leve is dead or altered unforgivably.

There should always be an ending where Link rescues the princess and all of Hyrule is saved eg Link to the past.  If an ending does not pull this off then it is a bitter disappintment that leaves MANY MYSELF INCLUDED feeling like crap.

It really is mind boggling that a thread like this even needs to exist but when artists get high off of sniffing their own farts and then calling it artistic integrity they need a reality check.

ME3's ending was a wet fart dried up by the EC but it still stinks.

This thread exists because of the massive disappointment  created by the ME3 endings and what many see as a trend to have only sad, bad, bittersweet endings.  There should be an option to get a good ending.  Not having the option is just going to make many gamers leave this fandom.  Now I know many of you would say good leave Bioware deserves better fans.  Fine.  BUt I really did like their previous games and it is my hope they can still deliver something I personally would find worth playing.

It is why I hang around in spite of my disappointment.  I mean previous games were really really good! As in I still play them they were so good.  But the end of ME3 was so bad it just takes up space on my harddrive.  I am hoping time will make me not care so much and then I can replay it and enjoy all the good that was in ME3 but that ending.. whooo, I just can't right now.

Now I have always preferred the DA univers and DAO is one of my all time favorite games ever right up there with A Link to the Past SNES but at the end of the game I was flush with victory even when I did the US and AListair had left my mage warden to be drunk I still felt victorious.

That feeling of victory is magical, its why I play videogames, whatever Bioware did in DAO it was magical.  It is my hope they can delier that kind of magic again but their needs to be an emotional payout for all the time you invest into the game something uplifting and positive.  In DAO even the US had that  ME3 did not.

I am still a fan of the company and their products, sure Im not a likable fan that worships everything they do but I am a fan and I am hoping for the best for them and this new video game which is why I am so interested in this thread because as much as I am hoping for the best this game will NOT be bought by me sight unseen I will be reading user reviews and I will be watching youtube videos because the destination DOES matter and if the destination will be all sad bad and bittersweet than I wil pass on this new game and I will find a new company to spend my money on.  I know, I know dont  say fine Im taking my ball and going home because thats just immature, but really who in their right mind would continue to play with a bully.  I for one am tired of being wedgied by bioware,  ME3 hurt.  It still hurts.  But the DA franchise has previously delivered so I am hoping for the best but expecting the worst.

I want an ending that makes me feel like I have won.  It is not that difficult.  Until recently it was the norm in games to end the game by winning saving the universe, get the girl, or guy and ride off in to the sunset.  JUst make it an achievable option thats all many of us want.

[Ridwan]

Above is a poster that gets it.

[Iakus]

M25105 wrote...

Above is a poster that gets it.

+1

[Iosev]

While I'm not entirely against a happy ending, I also do not want there to be a clear, optimal ending (i.e., one of the endings is largely more desirable than the others).

[DreGregoire]

The OP clearly states in the original post that this thread is not about the ME3 endings, therefore, the ME3 endings are not the reason for the existence of this thread. This thread is about the hope that there will be the option of a happy ending (like in DAO) and that the ending will not be all doom and gloom.

Modifié par DreGregoire, 07 octobre 2012 - 06:21 .

[DreGregoire]

garrusfan1 wrote...

DreGregoire I think that there should be some sacrifice but that is a form of happy ending I like so something like DAO would be great but I really want something besides a slideshow something with more feeling to it although I would like something that wraps it up like the slideshow did where it basically said this is what happened to orzammar and the dalish and the small stuff too like the grey warden Inn in red cliff

I like the slideshows somewhat, because it is nice to see what the writer's think happened next, but it would be nice if they were mini-scenes instead of just a slide. I don't expect it to be that way but it would be nice. I always felt like expansions are what keeps the stories alive for me. The dlc's are great but I like a fuller extension to the story. Hopefully they'll have a mix of dlc's and expansions for DAIII.

Modifié par DreGregoire, 07 octobre 2012 - 06:21 .

[Legacy_of_Wrex]

I'd like to have it as in DAO.
Yes, you could get the 'happy' ending with your character surviving.
But darn, I liked the way they made the 'Sacrifice' that I went for it just as often as the good one.

As long as there's the choice/option between them. I don't want to play a game where my character can do nothing but die in the end.

[Fredward]

I don't like happy endings. They depress me. And worse than that there is NO emotional impact. I NEED TO BE KICKED IN THE FEELS. The bad feels. Because that's what sticks.

In NWN2 (one of my favorite games EVER) my drow MC "romanced" Bishop through the course of the main game. She was totally in love with the fella. BUT she had some srs betrayal issues and when he winds up betraying her and they confront each other at the King of Shadows' base she can't let it go. Because he betrayed her. And she winds up killing him. Killing the KoS after that was like a postscript. And then when she winds up at that place which I forget the name of and she figures out Bishop is in the wall she starts to regret her decision and uses the power of the Spirit Eater to try and tear down the Wall and safe him. It had a really nice symmetry with the how the curse started because history was basically repeating itself with a someone sacrificing EVERYTHING for love. Anyway once she found out that it was too late to save Bishop she basically went insane and warred against the gods themselves.

See now, I don't think that could be considered a happy ending in anyone's universe, though for me it has the most impact of ANY game I have EVER played. Though ME3's ending comes close.

Even my Warden, who wound up allowing the Dark Ritual and becoming Queen alongside Alistair wasn't a happy ending. Because she knew a "real" Warden would've killed the Archdemon, but she wanted to be queen and have her "happily ever after" with Al. It's not happy though since her conscience plagues her and she and Alistair can't procreate and it bothers her that the only potential heir to the throne is being raised by a witch of questionable moral fiber and has the essence of a frickin god. So not happy. Bittersweet, which is also acceptable.

Hawke's ending however is not acceptable. There is no closure, good or bad. Which sucks. But really I think Bioware has learned their lesson where endings are concerned. xp

[Vitlen]

I like to see several different ending with each side able to win.

[NovaBlastMarketing]

garrusfan1 wrote...

 Okay please don't bring up ME3 ending this is about DA3. Bioware and specifically the people working on DA3 I want an  option (since I am pretty sure there will be multiple endings) many people like them and while the choice is yours I would greatly appreciate a happy ending anyone agree


Edit I said an option for a happy ending ALRIGHT AN OPTION there would be a bittersweet option and a horrible option and by happy option I mean hero lives and LI as well but there could be something bad during the game like someone close dying half way through but I would like a happy ending at the end 
So remember I Said AN OPTION FOR A HAPPY ENDING KEYWORD OPTION

thumbs up! +1  to the power of what evr it takes to make it happen .

Modifié par NovaBlastMarketing, 07 octobre 2012 - 08:01 .

[Ianamus]

I just want at least one possible ending where both the PC and his/her LI survive, and I'll be happy. Even if you have to let other people die or sacrifice something to achieve that, leading to a bittersweet ending, I don't really mind. Simply because I'm not a fan of doomed romances, and I can't really enjoy the PC's relationships with his companions if I know they are all/ mostly doomed to die by the end anyway.

And that aside it gives you something to fight for. If there is one ending where the PC and some of their companions can survive, but it takes a lot of work to pull off, then I feel motivated to achieve that no matter the cost. In Dragon age the dark ritual seemed very morally grey to me, and I wouldn't have done it under most circumstances, but as Morrigan said, if I didn't then me or Alistair would die. The prospect of having to sacrifice myself or a companion I liked led me to resort to the ritual, which I thought I never would. I liked how the game made me get emotionally attached to my PC and companions and then gave me the choice, so it really felt like a difficult decision. If my PC or Alistair died by the end anyway then the choice would have been meaningless for me. 

It also makes you think at the end that despite the tough decisions and all those side quests it was worth it to get an ending you can be happy with (even if it still had sad elements)

The major flaw for me with Mass Effect 3 is that no matter which ending you have Shepard is dead (or very ambiguously maybe alive but not really). Sure the fate of the galaxy changes depending on your choices/ems but what really gets you into Bioware games are the characters and the PC's interaction with them. Since your PC dies no matter what and the fate of your companions is stuck in  he middle of nowhere (before the EC anyway) I had no real reason to care anymore, or any incentive to try to achieve the "better" endings. The EC fixed that slightly with your party members, but with Shepards death remaining fixed I still find it hard to play through the games again or get emotionally involved with the character.

Modifié par EJ107, 07 octobre 2012 - 07:58 .

[Monica21]

EJ107 wrote...

I just want at least one possible ending where both the PC and his/her LI survive, and I'll be happy. Even if you have to let other people die or sacrifice something to achieve that, leading to a bittersweet ending, I don't really mind. Simply because I'm not a fan of doomed romances, and I can't really enjoy the PC's relationships with his companions if I know they are all/ mostly doomed to die by the end anyway.

See, and that wouldn't make me happy. The LI doesn't have to be true and everlasting love, sometimes it's just... company. So, in Origins if I lose Alistair (which I always do because I spare Loghain) I still have my BFF Leliana.

[AlanC9]

frostajulie wrote...
This thread exists because of the massive disappointment  created by the ME3 endings and what many see as a trend to have only sad, bad, bittersweet endings.  There should be an option to get a good ending.  Not having the option is just going to make many gamers leave this fandom.  Now I know many of you would say good leave Bioware deserves better fans.  Fine.  BUt I really did like their previous games and it is my hope they can still deliver something I personally would find worth playing.

Needing every single game to have a perfect ending stikes me as being a very, very bad design principle. So I guess maybe I'm in the "good leave Bioware deserves better fans" crowd?

And that's the problem. Sometimes there's just no way to reconcile the tastes of different slices of the fanbase. As Allan Schumacher pointed up upthread, if there's a available "happy ending," then the alternative endings are just fail states of one form or another. You can get around this to some extent with an ambiguous and risky choice as part of that happy ending (DA:O's DR, the ME3 Control and maybe Synthesis endings). But this strategy has limits since sooner or later you have to resolve the ambiguity unless you're at the end of the series.

Modifié par AlanC9, 07 octobre 2012 - 08:25 .

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

Needing every single game to have a perfect ending stikes me as being a very, very bad design principle. So I guess maybe I'm in the "good leave Bioware deserves better fans" crowd?

And that's the problem. Sometimes there's just no way to reconcile the tastes of different slices of the fanbase. As Allan Schumacher pointed up upthread, if there's a available "happy ending," then the alternative endings are just fail states of one form or another. You can get around this to some extent with an ambiguous and risky choice as part of that happy ending (DA:O's DR, the ME3 Control and maybe Synthesis endings). But this strategy has limits since sooner or later you have to resolve the ambiguity unless you're at the end of the series.

Not a "perfect" ending.  a "happy" ending.  Big difference.

And yes what is "happy" varies from person to person.  But a good foundation would probably include possible endings where the protagonist gets to live without commiting some horrible act upon Thedas. (yes, even without the DR, the Warden can have this)

This is why DAO's ending worked while ME3's didn't.  DAO lets you barter for your ending.  A price must be paid to defeat the archdemon, but you can pick what you're willing to pay to get it.  There's something for a wide variety of mindsets.  You can die in a blaze of glory, you can redeem a villain, let another sacrifice himself in your place, or do the DR and headcanon if that's a good thing or not.

ME3, well, the threads there go into excrutiating detail why those choices all sucked, no need to go into it here 

[lavisti]

Remember the movie The Village? When the blind girl ends up on a road and a car arrives? Until that moment you think it's 18th century, but you realise it's actually TODAY?
My reaction? I was BLOWN away, I fell off the chair

So what do I want? A game, a story and an ending that would blow my mind away, that I would remember as great. Multiple endings would be awesome but after ME3 famous three colored debacle I would be satisfied with just one, but an awesome one.

[Cimeas]

I *watch* a movie for entertainment, so I'm not invested in it in the same way as a game. I didn't put effort in to watch it.

With a game I did, so if I put effort in to make friends with people, to build an interesting character, to defeat the hardest enemies, and then I die/fail, why did I bother to put all the effort in in the first place? Couldn't I just have watched a let's play video on youtube because either way I won't have the feeling of having 'won.'

The real world is depressing enough, give games some happy endings. You can have your sad ending if you want, but make it optional. Then you'll have to decide if you really want it.

Modifié par Cimeas, 07 octobre 2012 - 09:27 .

[Navywife64]

I agree I would like the option of a happy ending or even a he dies, she dies, everybody dies ending if I want. Choices and options are good things.

[Il Divo]

iakus wrote...

This is why DAO's ending worked while ME3's didn't.  DAO lets you barter for your ending.  A price must be paid to defeat the archdemon, but you can pick what you're willing to pay to get it.  There's something for a wide variety of mindsets.  You can die in a blaze of glory, you can redeem a villain, let another sacrifice himself in your place, or do the DR and headcanon if that's a good thing

Wait, I'm not sure I follow, how is headcanoning the consequences of the DR any better than headcanoning Shepard's survival? Isn't that a bit of a double-standard? 

Modifié par Il Divo, 07 octobre 2012 - 09:29 .

[Iakus]

Il Divo wrote...

iakus wrote...

This is why DAO's ending worked while ME3's didn't.  DAO lets you barter for your ending.  A price must be paid to defeat the archdemon, but you can pick what you're willing to pay to get it.  There's something for a wide variety of mindsets.  You can die in a blaze of glory, you can redeem a villain, let another sacrifice himself in your place, or do the DR and headcanon if that's a good thing

Wait, I'm not sure I follow, how is headcanoning the consequences of the DR any better than headcanoning Shepard's survival? Isn't that a bit of a double-standard? 

Eh, not really, given I'm talking more a personal happy ending (which is what I'm assuming is being debated here)

We have to head canon the long term effects of the Dark Ritual, just as we have to head canon the long term affects of the ME3's endings (just how "inevitable" are those predictions?)  However, the Warden clearly survives in the DR ending, Shepard's survival is....another story...:innocent:

[Fiacre]

Il Divo wrote...

iakus wrote...

This is why DAO's ending worked while ME3's didn't.  DAO lets you barter for your ending.  A price must be paid to defeat the archdemon, but you can pick what you're willing to pay to get it.  There's something for a wide variety of mindsets.  You can die in a blaze of glory, you can redeem a villain, let another sacrifice himself in your place, or do the DR and headcanon if that's a good thing

Wait, I'm not sure I follow, how is headcanoning the consequences of the DR any better than headcanoning Shepard's survival? Isn't that a bit of a double-standard? 

Well, I've never played ME3, but imho, the good thing about the DR is, that it si ambiguous if it'll turn out terrible or good and depends entirely on your interpertation -- so a "happy" ending for one can have the DR done, while for another it would be a bittersweet or even bad ending. I don't really think "headcanoning" is needed so much as that the interpretation of what the DR is -- good, bad or neutral -- differs.