287 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

garrusfan1 wrote...

Okay people I said an OPTION for a happy ending I am not saying for it to be the only ending

Making people have to deliberately choose to get a worse ending isn't very satisfying.  And doesn't really work at all on that crucial first playthrough.  So it's not really easy to make a true option

DA:O did about as good a job as you can, but that relied basically on unresolved mysteries - if you decide that the Dark Ritual is going to be a good thing, then you can have a happy ending.  If you decide that this whole thing is dodgy, then any ending is going to have a stronger element of darkness and can probably be classed as bittersweet - unless you hate Alistair, anyway.

When Bioware actually get round to resolving the OGB stuff, I wonder if that balance will survive.

[Fawx9]

MillKill wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

MillKill wrote...

Tragic endings are far more emotionally powerful and memorable. Bittersweet is the happiest I'd like.

Not when it's done poorly.

Happy endings aren't good when done poorly either.

A well-done tragic ending, such as in The Godfather or The Godfather Part II, is better than a  well-done happy ending.

Invincible, Miracle, DKR, Avengers, etc are all good endings. It doesn't need to be bittersweet or depressing to be artful or good. Limiting yourself by those restrcitions is just stupid.

[Massakkolia]

I just want distinctively different endings. I don't care if none of the endings available is particularly cheerful but I want to feel I had an impact to the outcome. A choice is all I'm asking.

[Vandicus]

garrusfan1 wrote...

Okay people I said an OPTION for a happy ending I am not saying for it to be the only ending

A set of choices that lead to a happy ending are inherently superior to a set of choices that lead to an unhappy ending. Those who receive an unhappy ending when a happy ending exists chose poorly, or if they made these decisions in order to kill people, demonstrate some form of sociopathy. 

For example US warden is not a tragic ending but a bittersweet one because the warden knowingly chooses the path. If a happy ending is achievable, its nearly impossible to include a good unhappy ending, though bittersweet(in between) is still doable.

An example of why this rules out good tragic/unhappy endings is DA2. If it were possible to maintain the peace and get a happy ending in DA2, any Hawke who did not maintain the peace would either be a jerk or stupid relative to successfull Hawkes. Basically the happy "option" rules out the unhappy ending.

[Fawx9]

Vandicus wrote...

garrusfan1 wrote...

Okay people I said an OPTION for a happy ending I am not saying for it to be the only ending

A set of choices that lead to a happy ending are inherently superior to a set of choices that lead to an unhappy ending. Those who receive an unhappy ending when a happy ending exists chose poorly, or if they made these decisions in order to kill people, demonstrate some form of sociopathy. 

For example US warden is not a tragic ending but a bittersweet one because the warden knowingly chooses the path. If a happy ending is achievable, its nearly impossible to include a good unhappy ending, though bittersweet(in between) is still doable.

An example of why this rules out good tragic/unhappy endings is DA2. If it were possible to maintain the peace and get a happy ending in DA2, any Hawke who did not maintain the peace would either be a jerk or stupid relative to successfull Hawkes. Basically the happy "option" rules out the unhappy ending.

ME2 had "Crap I done ****ed up" ending. People still played to get it.

[Vandicus]

Fawx9 wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

garrusfan1 wrote...

Okay people I said an OPTION for a happy ending I am not saying for it to be the only ending

A set of choices that lead to a happy ending are inherently superior to a set of choices that lead to an unhappy ending. Those who receive an unhappy ending when a happy ending exists chose poorly, or if they made these decisions in order to kill people, demonstrate some form of sociopathy. 

For example US warden is not a tragic ending but a bittersweet one because the warden knowingly chooses the path. If a happy ending is achievable, its nearly impossible to include a good unhappy ending, though bittersweet(in between) is still doable.

An example of why this rules out good tragic/unhappy endings is DA2. If it were possible to maintain the peace and get a happy ending in DA2, any Hawke who did not maintain the peace would either be a jerk or stupid relative to successfull Hawkes. Basically the happy "option" rules out the unhappy ending.

ME2 had "Crap I done ****ed up" ending. People still played to get it.

Yes, they chose to walk in front of a bus. Not a very good tragic/unhappy option imo.

[TCBC_Freak]

I wouldn't say Inglorious Bastards was bittersweet, just plan awesome. And Brave-heart wasn't just a story, that's the ending that really happened so I wouldn't say it counts as "writing" a good bittersweet ending, more like capitalizing on one that already was, Schindler's List too... but otherwise I agree with the other movies you put as good examples of well written endings.

You could also say the whole movie War Horse was bittersweet with an awesome ending.

But to the OP, I add +1, I want to be able to get the happy ending... and not like you get at a back-end massage parlor... I mean like you get with Star Wars (heroes overcome, true love is found [Han and Leia] and a father redeems himself), or Lord of the Rings (evil defeated, but with some cost [Boromir, King Theoden, and more in the book], but the heroes win out and a peace reins under the good king). Either of those types would be good.

[garrusfan1]

TCBC thanks

[ediskrad327]

i would like a WIDE range of endings from happy to completely f'd up, like say for happiness the world is at peace and for bad the world is destroyed by Bloodmages that summoned the 2 last arch demons with punk hair..okay something less stupid but you get the idea

[MillKill]

Fawx9 wrote...

MillKill wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

MillKill wrote...

Tragic endings are far more emotionally powerful and memorable. Bittersweet is the happiest I'd like.

Not when it's done poorly.

Happy endings aren't good when done poorly either.

A well-done tragic ending, such as in The Godfather or The Godfather Part II, is better than a  well-done happy ending.

Invincible, Miracle, DKR, Avengers, etc are all good endings. It doesn't need to be bittersweet or depressing to be artful or good. Limiting yourself by those restrcitions is just stupid.

I never said that good endings must be horrible. But when done well, they are not as powerful as well-done tragic or bittersweet endings.

I never saw Invincible or Miracle, but TDK was definitely not a happy ending. It was firmly in Bittersweet territory. I liked the ending to The Avengers, but TDK had an ending far more powerful and memorable.

[Eveangaline]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Happy endings don't come with a guarantee of artistic integrity.

Neither do sad endings

[Fiacre]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Define "happy".

DAO/A with ritual, Warden married to Anora with no other LI, Alistair executed, everyone else alive (Ashes never found, Curse lifted, Bhelen crowned, Anvil destroyed, Redcliffe saved, Circle option for saving Connor chosen, Amaranthine saved, Vigil's Keep fully upgraded). aka my canon ending.

And I don't think a happy ending means there can't be an unhappy one. This is an RPG after all -- if crowning Harrowmont and giving him Golems is IC for your character, then imo that's a perfectly legitimate choice to make, even if it leads to an unhappy fate for Orzammar.

Modifié par Fiacre, 06 octobre 2012 - 09:55 .

[garrusfan1]

Okay I found a decent example of a happy ending but with some sadness borderlands 2 does a decent one by that I mean (spoilers are coming) Roland died a little before ending but everyone else lived and it was happy besides that and I am only using this to say how it could be happy but have some sacrifice too. I know borderlands 2 doesn't have an amazing story though it is decent but it was a gpod examplw

[Eveangaline]

Fiacre wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Define "happy".

DAO/A with ritual, Warden married to Anora with no other LI, Alistair executed, everyone else alive (Ashes never found, Curse lifted, Bhelen crowned, Anvil destroyed, Redcliffe saved, Circle option for saving Connor chosen, Amaranthine saved, Vigil's Keep fully upgraded). aka my canon ending.

And I don't think a happy ending means there can't be an unhappy one. This is an RPG after all -- if crowning Harrowmont and giving him Golems is IC for your character, then imo that's a perfectly legitimate choice to make, even if it leads to an unhappy fate for Orzammar.

Well that's not happy at all, you did the ritual and alistair is dead.
I think they'll need to make multiple kinds of happy endings

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

Happy ending as in the difference between sacrificing your Grey Warden at the end of DA:O (sad) or using Morrigan's loophole to escape death (happy)? :-D

I just want a variety of different endings, some happy, some sad, some of them somewhere in between. Overall, I want to be blown away!

As for ME 3 (I know, I know) my feeling is that Shep gave her life so that the galaxy could enjoy the possibility of a future free of Reapers. Your mileage may vary on which of three choices is the best means to that end.

[garrusfan1]

ediskrad327 wrote...

i would like a WIDE range of endings from happy to completely f'd up, like say for happiness the world is at peace and for bad the world is destroyed by Bloodmages that summoned the 2 last arch demons with punk hair..okay something less stupid but you get the idea

That is pretty much what I was talking about when I said an OPTION for a happy ending so  you agreed and thank you 

[BouncyFrag]

A good ending doesn't necessarily have to be a happy ending. I was actually sad after the first time I finished DA:O since I did the 'ultimate sacrifice.' One of my favorite game endings ever.

[bleetman]

DA:O had a couple of pretty happy endings, depending on how you view Morrigan's offer or having Loghain sacrifice himself.

I don't consider the Loghain sacrifice-Alistair king-everybody lives hooray ending as somehow diminishing the endings where various people snuff it. But then, I actually roleplay my characters, and don't obsesively metagame for an arbitrary "best".

[Iakus]

What I'd like to see is a range of endings, from "good" to "bad" which reflects how the player rp-s the game. DAO did this pretty well. No ending is "perfect" but based on the Warden's choices, the ending could be relatively happy to dark and bittersweet to downright gloomy.

[Fiacre]

Eveangaline wrote...

Fiacre wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Define "happy".

DAO/A with ritual, Warden married to Anora with no other LI, Alistair executed, everyone else alive (Ashes never found, Curse lifted, Bhelen crowned, Anvil destroyed, Redcliffe saved, Circle option for saving Connor chosen, Amaranthine saved, Vigil's Keep fully upgraded). aka my canon ending.

And I don't think a happy ending means there can't be an unhappy one. This is an RPG after all -- if crowning Harrowmont and giving him Golems is IC for your character, then imo that's a perfectly legitimate choice to make, even if it leads to an unhappy fate for Orzammar.

Well that's not happy at all, you did the ritual and alistair is dead.
I think they'll need to make multiple kinds of happy endings

Alistair dead is a very happy ending for me. At last, he shall never annoy me again... Until I start a new game and he's right back to saying "Swooping is bad". Woe is me.

And the ritual is awesome, it's what I always do. Everyone gets to live and Morrigan is my best friend/LI so I trust she won't screw it up.

[Inprea]

I would prefer a happy ending as well or to be more precise an optional happy ending. That said I believe the ending should be an accumulation of your choices. Let's go back to dragon age origins for example and ignore the dark ritual. Let's look at the circle tower. Now do you consider the mages and circle rebuilding a happy ending or genocide? If you're a mage hater obviously you prefer mass murder. Then let's look at Orzammar what do you prefer a competent tyrant that revitalizes his people or an incompetent leader that means well but is stuck in tradition?

For me it was these choices that actually set what I consider a good ending. A tyrant that improves the quality of life of the average man is a better choice to me then a well meaning incompetent who hastens a people's decline. So perhaps instead of getting a happy or sad ending it could be more about getting our ending?

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Eveangaline wrote...

Fiacre wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Define "happy".

DAO/A with ritual, Warden married to Anora with no other LI, Alistair executed, everyone else alive (Ashes never found, Curse lifted, Bhelen crowned, Anvil destroyed, Redcliffe saved, Circle option for saving Connor chosen, Amaranthine saved, Vigil's Keep fully upgraded). aka my canon ending.

And I don't think a happy ending means there can't be an unhappy one. This is an RPG after all -- if crowning Harrowmont and giving him Golems is IC for your character, then imo that's a perfectly legitimate choice to make, even if it leads to an unhappy fate for Orzammar.

Well that's not happy at all, you did the ritual and alistair is dead.
I think they'll need to make multiple kinds of happy endings

That's because happy endings, in an RPG especially, are subjective.

[Eveangaline]

Fiacre wrote...

Eveangaline wrote...

Fiacre wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Define "happy".

DAO/A with ritual, Warden married to Anora with no other LI, Alistair executed, everyone else alive (Ashes never found, Curse lifted, Bhelen crowned, Anvil destroyed, Redcliffe saved, Circle option for saving Connor chosen, Amaranthine saved, Vigil's Keep fully upgraded). aka my canon ending.

And I don't think a happy ending means there can't be an unhappy one. This is an RPG after all -- if crowning Harrowmont and giving him Golems is IC for your character, then imo that's a perfectly legitimate choice to make, even if it leads to an unhappy fate for Orzammar.

Well that's not happy at all, you did the ritual and alistair is dead.
I think they'll need to make multiple kinds of happy endings

Alistair dead is a very happy ending for me. At last, he shall never annoy me again... Until I start a new game and he's right back to saying "Swooping is bad". Woe is me.

And the ritual is awesome, it's what I always do. Everyone gets to live and Morrigan is my best friend/LI so I trust she won't screw it up.

Like I siad they'll have to make different kinds of happy endings for different people

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Eveangaline wrote...

Fiacre wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Define "happy".

DAO/A
with ritual, Warden married to Anora with no other LI, Alistair
executed, everyone else alive (Ashes never found, Curse lifted, Bhelen
crowned, Anvil destroyed, Redcliffe saved, Circle option for saving
Connor chosen, Amaranthine saved, Vigil's Keep fully upgraded). aka my canon ending.

And
I don't think a happy ending means there can't be an unhappy one. This
is an RPG after all -- if crowning Harrowmont and giving him Golems is
IC for your character, then imo that's a perfectly legitimate choice to
make, even if it leads to an unhappy fate for Orzammar.

Well that's not happy at all, you did the ritual and alistair is dead.
I think they'll need to make multiple kinds of happy endings

That's because happy endings, in an RPG especially, are subjective.

You may have missed the part right under that where I said they'd have to make different kinds of happy endings, obviously meaning to account for the subjective nature

Modifié par Eveangaline, 06 octobre 2012 - 10:02 .

[garrusfan1]

Eveanglean I always chose harrowmont because balin (don't know if I spelt it right) was a a** but when you find out he does great things for orzammar I always chose him