44 réponses à ce sujet

[EpicBoot2daFace]

scootermcgaffin wrote...

I don't see how "you end up fighting both of them anyway" (even though you don't, so that's not even true -- you fight Meredith and Orsino, not all the mages and all the templars but whatever that's neither here nor there) invalidates anything that I said.

Meredith (head of the templars) and Orgins (head of the mages). You end up killing both of them, despite which side you choose.

[scootermcgaffin]

Yes, I know what you're talking about, how does it make the situation less grey? If anything, it proves my point that both sides are willing to go to extremes to win.

[ledod]

Given that gamers are going to get another intorduction to the mage-chantry dilemma, one would hope that the experience is more sophisticated/nuanced than the last DA foray

[Vandicus]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

scootermcgaffin wrote...

I don't see how "you end up fighting both of them anyway" (even though you don't, so that's not even true -- you fight Meredith and Orsino, not all the mages and all the templars but whatever that's neither here nor there) invalidates anything that I said.

Meredith (head of the templars) and Orgins (head of the mages). You end up killing both of them, despite which side you choose.

Fighting the leaders isn't quite the same thing. Deposing Meredith is necessary because the artifact has driven her batty. If you side with the templars they help make you Viscount. Not exactly what I'd call fighting both sides. Templar-side Hawke usurps Meredith's place while mage-side helps the templars get rid of their now insane leader, though he fails to protect the mages.

[Lithuasil]

How does anyone actually wish the grey warden / darkspawn thing to come back? Especially on the basis of the arguments presented here - Wardens vs. Darkspawn is precisely the kind of thing you guys are so riled up about - two completely evil groups slapfighting, with neither having any sort of point.
At least the mage/templar thing could be interesting in theory.

[Eveangaline]

In DA:O you didn't just stop the darkspawn, you had to solve political issues in Orzammar, stop a civil war, save or destroy a circle of ferelden, fight werewolves to save dalish (or kill the dalish in vengeance for the werewolves), fight off assasins, save a princess, fight off a cult to find an ancient relic to save a nobleman, fight off zombies to save a town under siege from the demon within a young boy.

I'm pretty sure they can put more than the Mages V templars in DA3

[RakothX]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

scootermcgaffin wrote...

Because it's so much more grey. It's not "oh no there's a bunch of Always Chaotic Evil Darkspawn coming everyone fight!" There are good points on both sides. Both sides will go to extremes to stay alive and win. The farther they go, the further away a compromise is.

Except for the fact that you end up fighting both of them anwway. There is no real choice in the matter. Yeah, it's so grey.

TVTropes.com > Dragon Age II > Stupid Sacrifice entry > ?? > Profit.

Spoiler: Orsino fight wasn't in the initial cards, then someone up-ended the table and demanded moar fights.

[Eveangaline]

RakothX wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

scootermcgaffin wrote...

Because it's so much more grey. It's not "oh no there's a bunch of Always Chaotic Evil Darkspawn coming everyone fight!" There are good points on both sides. Both sides will go to extremes to stay alive and win. The farther they go, the further away a compromise is.

Except for the fact that you end up fighting both of them anwway. There is no real choice in the matter. Yeah, it's so grey.

TVTropes.com > Dragon Age II > Stupid Sacrifice entry > ?? > Profit.

Spoiler: Orsino fight wasn't in the initial cards, then someone up-ended the table and demanded moar fights.

I thought that felt very tacked on

[Direwolf0294]

I'm the opposite. I struggled to care about the plot of Awakening. The Darkspawn are just generic bad guys who bore me to tears. The mage vs templar conflict on the other hand is something that interests me greatly.

[deuce985]

Quite honestly, for a plot that's suppose to change Thedas, I'd agree somewhat.

This is suppose to be a war that hits all of Thedas. It's built up in DA2 and now we'll be in the middle of it. The Darkspawn threat might've been on a far smaller scale but it felt much more epic. Maybe it's because we didn't get to experience the war in DA2. It's all built up and then the game is just over.

However, Bioware has potential here. It shouldn't be hard to keep us interested in a full blown war that can change the world. IMO, everyone should be involved, which should make it more interesting. Qunari, Dwarves, Elves, Human, etc. Heck, I could see the Darkspawn playing a major role too. Who knows? You can't forget Flemeth knows something too. Is she evil, neutral, or good? It's very hard to say. They could intertwine a greater evil plot into the war. Maybe someone will try to manipulate it for their own gain?

Personally, I think they're going in that direction and they'll realize it in DA3. The war will be wrapped up but the greater evil plot will be the setting in DA4.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

scootermcgaffin wrote...

Yes, I know what you're talking about, how does it make the situation less grey? If anything, it proves my point that both sides are willing to go to extremes to win.

If Meredith never touched the idol (or been such a merciless **** in general) you might have a point. But Meredith ruined any kind of chance for there to be a grey area. Replace Meredith with Gregoir or Cullen and your point would be valid.

How can anyone side with the Templars when BioWare tries so hard to make you hate Meredith? They even make Orsino a complete wimp in comparison. They try so hard to make you side with the mages. THAT is why no grey area exists, and that is why the "war" in Dragon Age 2 fails to get off the ground.

Gregoir and Irving. Those two were far more realistic characters. They didn't get along that well, but they respected each other and were more like friends on opposite sides. A war breaking out, and then having those two go to war against each other (even though they don't want to) would have been far more entertaining to watch than a psychotic **** going insane and a wimpy elven mage resorting to blood magic.

Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 07 octobre 2012 - 04:47 .

[Eveangaline]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

scootermcgaffin wrote...

Yes, I know what you're talking about, how does it make the situation less grey? If anything, it proves my point that both sides are willing to go to extremes to win.

If Meredith never touched the idol (or been such a merciless **** in general) you might have a point. But Meredith ruined any kind of chance for there to be a grey area. Replace Meredith with Gregoir or Cullen and your point would be valid.

How can anyone side with the Templars when BioWare tries so hard to make you hate Meredith? They even make Orsino a complete wimp in comparison. They try so hard to make you side with the mages. THAT is why no grey area exists, and that is why the "war" that develops in Dragon Age 2 fails to get off the ground.

Gregoir and Irving. Those two were far more realistic characters. They didn't get along that well, but they respected each other and were more like friends on opposite sides. A war breaking out, and then having those two go to war against each other (even though they don't want to) would have been far more entertaining to watch than a psychotic **** going insane and a wimpy elven mage resorting to blood magic.

To be honest, I can't side with the templars, because when you make the deicision of what side you want, there's no implication you can save any of the mages. I mean, they didn't blow up the chantry, Anders did. And he's right there. I wish there would be an option for "Give this guy a nice public execution, he's the one that did it. Sate the peoples bloodlust with the actual bomber. Don't go kill every man woman and child in the circle because of a random non-circle mage"

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Eveangaline wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

scootermcgaffin wrote...

Yes, I know what you're talking about, how does it make the situation less grey? If anything, it proves my point that both sides are willing to go to extremes to win.

If Meredith never touched the idol (or been such a merciless **** in general) you might have a point. But Meredith ruined any kind of chance for there to be a grey area. Replace Meredith with Gregoir or Cullen and your point would be valid.

How can anyone side with the Templars when BioWare tries so hard to make you hate Meredith? They even make Orsino a complete wimp in comparison. They try so hard to make you side with the mages. THAT is why no grey area exists, and that is why the "war" that develops in Dragon Age 2 fails to get off the ground.

Gregoir and Irving. Those two were far more realistic characters. They didn't get along that well, but they respected each other and were more like friends on opposite sides. A war breaking out, and then having those two go to war against each other (even though they don't want to) would have been far more entertaining to watch than a psychotic **** going insane and a wimpy elven mage resorting to blood magic.

To be honest, I can't side with the templars, because when you make the deicision of what side you want, there's no implication you can save any of the mages. I mean, they didn't blow up the chantry, Anders did. And he's right there. I wish there would be an option for "Give this guy a nice public execution, he's the one that did it. Sate the peoples bloodlust with the actual bomber. Don't go kill every man woman and child in the circle because of a random non-circle mage"

That's another thing that makes no sense and is out of left field. Anders becomes a terrorist and blows up the Chantry. He admits his guilt right in front of the Templars and everyone else. But instead of calling for his execution, Meredith wants to kill ALL mages. Nevermind the fact that they had nothing to do with it at all.

After that, what sane person could still side with the Templars? Even Cullen wants out.

[Quicksilver26]

I just want to kill things that don't look like me if I wanted to fight humans and or deal with politics i'd play a wargame of some kind (hell maybe CoD or fallout)
I wanna be a Grey Warden again

[SafetyShattered]

Eveangaline wrote...

Who's to say da3 won't have both of these plots interacting with each other?

This. Considering that the darkspawn are like the staple baddies of DA I highly doubt that Bioware is done with them.

Modifié par Shadowfang12, 08 octobre 2012 - 03:47 .

[SafetyShattered]

Quicksilver26 wrote...

I just want to kill things that don't look like me if I wanted to fight humans and or deal with politics i'd play a wargame of some kind (hell maybe CoD or fallout)
I wanna be a Grey Warden again

Same here. Grey Wardens are pure epicness,

[unbentbuzzkill]

@shadowfang12

to bad the story has shifted away from the wardens they are just foot notes now.

[SafetyShattered]

unbentbuzzkill wrote...

@shadowfang12

to bad the story has shifted away from the wardens they are just foot notes now.

I know....that really makes me sad. Screw inquisitors...I wanna be a Grey Warden...

[Dhiro]

Shadowfang12 wrote...

unbentbuzzkill wrote...

@shadowfang12

to bad the story has shifted away from the wardens they are just foot notes now.

I know....that really makes me sad. Screw inquisitors...I wanna be a Grey Warden...

I prefer to be an Inquisitor, myself. Being a Warden was okay, but there are many others orders and organizations in Thedas I'd like to explore. If the writers decide that they want another Warden PC, that's okay, but I'd prefer to let them rest and move on to new things.

[Arokel]

It was very odd to jump away from the plot threads started in Awakening to all of a sudden focus on the mage-templar issue. An issue which was just one of many side plots in Origins.

I suspect we will return to the Darkspawn and being a Grey Warden one day but only later in the series.