120 réponses à ce sujet

[Pangaea]

Have taken an Illusionist/Thief through BG1, and have finally started to play BG2 with him. Have come out of the dungeon and into the slum, so still very early, but I'm already unsure on party formation as there were a pile of them in the Coronet bar.

Right now I have

Protagonist
Minsc
Jaheira
Aerie
Yoshimo
Anomen

Just picked up Anomen which sent Nalia scurrying off to where her mission was. Imoen got taken away, but I'm kind of expecting to get her back again at some point (but don't answer that). Should I just roll with this group and see how it goes, or are there others nearby that are upgrades on what I have?

Seems like there are few pure classes in BG2, so would like to keep Yoshimo. Not been a big fan of Jaheira, but maybe it's a good idea to keep her for story purposes. Would be nice to get a proper fighter in, but just about everyone are multi or duals it seems. There is Minsc of course, but he keeps getting ripped a new hole in every fight..

Am planning to be a Good-ish party, so evil characters is probably a bad idea.

Loving the game so far, but it does seem like a solid upgrade in difficulty from the mostly comfortable bows and sling massacre of BG1.

Everything is crazily expensive as well, but I suppose that will take care of itself with time and loot.  Hard to know what weapons to go for, but for the time being I'm going to try more ranged again, as toe-to-toe is just suicide more often than not.

Also, is it possible to get a Familiar spell somewhere? Never did that in BG1, but would like to get one just for laughs.

[Grond0]

Go with whatever characters you fancy - for a first playthrough you shouldn't be worrying about missing anything.

If you go and help Nalia you can also find a familiar scroll.

[ussnorway]

IMO Jaheira is worth keeping for a first time run on story alone.

Puer Fighter = Mazzy & there is also Valygar who also gives you a good Ranger scout but I'd drop the wacky Minsc.

Cleric = Viconia or Anomen & I lean towards Vic (even with good parties).

This gives you devine and thief so then you need a tank/ mage... assuming you don't want to do these jobs yourself then;
Tank = Haer'Dalis & mage = Nalia, drop the one that you don't need.

[Pangaea]

Thanks, I had intended to help her out. I like to at least *try* to do all missions that I'm assigned.

Will see who else pop up then. Definitely want to keep Aerie though as I like her. Another mage can be good to have as well, and if I ever wind up ditching Jaheira she can double as healer.

Will probably use this topic for various questions that may pop up as I play. Hope that is okay.

---

Got pre-empted by ussnorway there. But drop Minsc? He's half the fun! 

Not heard about these others, besides Viconia from BG1. Think she was evil though, so not sure how well she would fly with us.

Modifié par Pangaea, 07 octobre 2012 - 10:00 .

[morbidest2]

Did you experiment with Minsc's beserking in BG1? That, plus getting him the best armor you can afford, will help with his damage proneness. As you try the various side quests, you might try switching out one of your party for the NPC associated with the quest (Nalia for Nalia's castle, Korgan for tomb robbing, Valygar for the Planar Sphere,Haer Dalis for the Astral Prison, Aerie for the Circus, etc.). That way you'll see for yourself who you want in your final group when you ultimately go to rescue Imoen. Just ask the discarded NPC to wait for you at the Copper Coronet, to make it easy to pick them up again.
Just 2 hints:
Jaheira is tempermental and will ditch you for good if you drop her for more than 3 days, and she does get better and better as the game goes on.
When you go after Imoen, have Yoshi in your party

[Matuse]

Viconia can't be in the same party as Valgyar, Keldorn, or Aerie, but she gets along with everyone else. You would need to watch your reputation to keep her from leaving, though (unless you cheat or mod her so that she doesn't leave).

Anomen is just a radically inferior cleric. He has much better physical stats, but Viconia blows him away for Wisdom and her 50% magic resistance. He's also an insufferable jerk.

You may want to keep a party slot somewhat free in order to sub in NPCs at need. Nearly all of them have some kind of personal quest that occurs when they are in your party. Some lead right off with it (Korgan, Nalia, Viconia), but for others the quest will arrive only after certain conditions are met...primarily being in the party for 1-2 in-game weeks.

On the Nalia front...you haven't seen it yet, but mages in BG2 are nightmarish to fight. You want to have a mage of your own specifically for the purpose of taking out other mages. You may even want 2 mages for that purpose. Mages in BG1 were mildly inconvenient. Davaeorn was probably the toughest in that game, and he was still a ****cat. BG2 arcane spellcasters are in a whole other league.

Jaheira can substitute as anti-mage, with her insect spells. Those can pretty easily remove spellcasters from a fight. Keldorn is also good as anti-mage with his uber-dispel magic to remove their spell protections. Minsc + Keldorn make a fairly decent front row. The difficulty being that vanilla versions of them are both set up for two handed swords. That's fine for Keldorn...the best weapon in the game is one only he can use. Minsc you want to go another route. I'd go Flails or Axes. Those are EXTREMELY powerful weapon categories. In my games, I always edit out Minsc's mace proficiency and swap it to either axes or flails (depending on which other party members I'm taking).

Weapon profs are one of the biggest problem I have with the vanilla BG. It seems like Bioware went out of their way to give the worst possible layout of weapon choices for the NPCs. Katanas are described (accurately) as a very rare weapon type...but TWO NPCs use them as their primary weapon. Buh!? Two other melee types have shortswords as their weapons of choice...shortswords aren't rare, but they are also generally not very good. Of the melee focused characters, only Keldorn and Korgan are laid out in a logical fashion for playing the game.

Weapon paths with good weapons:
Longsword
Katana (this is really just one weapon, but it is a REAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLY good one)
Flail
Warhammer
Axe
Two Handed Sword (mostly paladins...it's difficult to keep two 2H weapon users equipped until late in the game)

There are isolated good examples of other types, but frequently the good versions of those weapons come pretty late in the game (bastard sword), or are really situational (mace).

Modifié par Matuse, 07 octobre 2012 - 02:37 .

[Pangaea]

Thanks for a really good post Matuse )

Not using any mods for happiness issues, so don't think I want to take evil characters. Sounds like Keldorn can be a good party member as I'd like a proper fighter, and I guess he's the closest. Weapon proficiencies did my head in during BG1 too. Minsc was a particular weirdo case, and it looks just as wacko now. Had him using mace and shield in BG1 which was okay, but not great. Don't feel great about changing things around in ShadowKeeper, but I suppose this doesn't go into the "cheating" category. If I pick up Keldorn when I find him, Minsc could always be put to Warhammers or Axes or something like that. Those two stars into Two-weapon styles feels like such a waste as well. I prefer my tanks to use shields.

Ouch on the mages! *Not* looking forward to that one. Already struggling with that damn beastmaster and his pet(s). Minsc was pretty useful against them with Berserk in BG1, but I suppose it won't work quite as well in BG2. Still can't quite believe he singlehandedly wiped out the 4 Amazons in BG1. They gave me so much grief, then I just sent him in alone in a desperate attempt.

Back to NPCs. Although I don't really like Jaheira all that much, I'd like to keep her for story purposes. Same with Minsc, but it helps that I love him and Boo. Imoen will come back at some point too I hope. So that's four spots. Quite like Aerie so want her to stay, and she can do some healing too, although of course not as well as a pure priest (I miss Branwen ). That leaves one spot. Wanted Yoshimo as he seems quite useful with knowledge so far, but maybe a fighter-type would be more useful, like Keldorn?

Protagonist - Illusionist/Thief
Minsc - Ranger
Jaheira - Fighter/Druid
(Imoen - Mage/Thief)
Aerie - Cleric/Mage

Keldorn - Paladin
Yoshimo - Thief

Who is best to go with of Keldorn and Yoshimo, for a first time playthrough?

[morbidest2]

Unless your PC is lousy at finding traps and picking locks, you can do without Yoshi until you go after Imoen, which probably won't be for awhile. You can find Keldorn in the sewers in the Temple District. If you haven't played BG2 before, it's a good idea to keep your party full at 6 characters - it's a dangerous city, particularly at night - so hang on to Anomen and/or Nalia until someone you want more comes along. Beserk fighters are very useful against mages and undead, since some spells bounce off them.

[ussnorway]

I'd also go with Keldorn because he will help keep Minsc from going berko but just so we are clear, the wack-job makes a lousy tank imo you would get better mileage out of Jaheira tanking and just letting him wack stuff with two weapons... it's your game though.

[Matuse]

Jaheira will make the better tank because she can use iron skins to heavily buff up her ability to take hits. Then she will have a fair abundance of level 1 slots to fill with Armor Of Faith...a super useful spell for remaining not dead.

But "tank" isn't really measured by AC...AC is nice at the start, but pretty soon you run into opponents who will hit a -15 effortlessly, or whose attacks don't involve hit rolls at all. Soaking damage becomes more useful, which is one of the reasons I love me some flails. A certain flail found in an adventure area combined with a vendor flail (assuming you have the bonus merchants) in the Copper Coronet provides some really nice mitigation, and Jaheira can't use flails.

Yes, I'd keep a full party, and I'd also be very careful about wandering around the city at night. Of course, I have this Tactics+Tweaks install that every time I set foot out of a building at night I am set upon by squads of assassins, so it's much worse for me than it will be for you. But being totally inexperienced with it, some of the vanilla encounters can be very bad news.

[Pangaea]

My PC is lousy on find traps, only 30. 125 in both hiding and moving silently, and 100 in lockpicking, so I basically need Yoshi. Will work on finding traps on my PC from now on, though, so maybe he'll be good enough at it whenever Imoen may come back (think she 'only' had 95, but guess that will do)

Had a drink or three and was told it was dangerous out at night, and thanks for the heads up on it. Will try to sleep during the night; so far it looks like I need to sleep much more than in BG1, where I often had most of the spells intact.

Little disappointing to see that AC can't keep up, but that's my experience so far as well. Naturally AC is poor now, but whoever goes toe-to-toe gets torn a new one. So maybe Jaheira will make a better tank. Have used her partly as that for now as well, but mainly with Minsc. Didn't know iron skin was that good though, it looks pretty meh to me. "Okay, so a few arrows and it's gone, so what?" Guess I should memorise it then! Maybe druids are better than I thought. Have always preferred clerics which is why I went with Branwen in BG1. Have mostly used level 1 spells for healing though, is that a bad idea?

Don't have any extra merchants as I modded minimalistic to keep it as vanilla as possible. If I re-spec Minsc's proficiencies, should I go war hammers, axes or flails? Shield or two-wielding?

Also, can I get by with loot drop weapons in this game, like in BG1, or do I have to fork out for weapons, armour, rings, spells etc to stay competitive?

So many questions...

[Jianson]

Money is (eventually) not going to be much of a problem, so my advice is to not be afraid to spend it on things that seem powerful.

In my first playthrough, Jaheira was a great tank for pretty much the whole SoA game. The combo of Iron Skins and AC way down in the negatives was really nice. Since she is part Fighter, she can wear all armors and shields unlike a single-class druid.

What is the casting time for Iron Skins in your game? In my first playthrough, it was 1, so it could usually be cast in mid-fight as soon as the current skins got depleted. With my current mod setup, it takes far longer to cast.

[Piplodocus]

Your party is exactly the same as my default party - I must have played through with Anomen, Jaheira, Aerie, Minsc and Yoshimo a dozen times or so. The only difference is that my main character is (usually) a paladin. So I think you have a great party there, personally!.... Don't worry about a lack of fighters - Minsc is an absolute wrecking ball and Anomen works well as a tank also if you equip him properly. Jaheira also makes a fine back-up.

[Matuse]

Buy a few initial rep points at a temple (4 or so is pretty affordable), then quest your way to 20. There are a LOT fewer rep quests in BG2 than BG1, but you still want that 20 for the shop discount.

A nice trick for rep if you don't plan on keeping Viconia...add Viconia, buy 2 rep points, kick Viconia. Going from 9-->11 is 700 gold cheaper than going from 11-->13. When you're looking at 20,000 for Gaelan Bayle, plus any shop widgets you might want to pick up, 700 is a useful amount.

[Pangaea]

Anomen is already getting on my nerves something unreal. I swear, I'll clobber the f*cker soon! :mad: Finished that slaver quest, which was a bit nasty. Thank goodness I had some fire arrows for those two trolls!

Speaking of getting on my nerves, is there a way to prevent the NPCs from interfering with stuff when we're in the middle of a fight? Had hoped this was done much better in BG2 than the NPC project in BG1, considering it was made this way by the developers, but sadly the timing is equally baffling. Each time it happens I'm dragged out from the game world Would be much better if stuff like that only happened when I initiated a talk. Like in DAO, if I recall correctly.

Won't pick up Viconia, but paying for rep increase sounds like a good idea. Isn't it possible to get it to 20 without forking out? I gave a slaver kid some money, so it's up to 12 now. If I understand this right from the manual, if I get it up to 13 it's pretty cheap to get it to 15: 200gp + 500gp. Odd that it costs 900 from 12 to 13, and only 700 from 13 to 15.

Perhaps it's best to try to locate that Keldorn fellow. Anomen is way too annoying. Temple district, was it?

[Pangaea]

Fired up the game again to try out the reputation thing. It was apparently 13 already, not sure where the last point came from, mind. So that should be 200 according to the manual. Isn't it supposed to count it up, so if you keep giving 100, it will eventually go up when you climb above the threshold?

Well, I gave 100 and 100 and 100, until I had given about 5-6000. Still nothing. Still 13 reputation.

Reloaded and tried 200. Nope. 500. Nope. Okay, 2000. Ca-ching.

How is this supposed to work? This seems wrong.

[Matuse]

NPCs interfering with stuff? Generally they don't talk during fights, unless there are really unusual circumstances involved. There are occasional triggers for NPCs to speak (they are "traps" built into the floor that trigger the conversation when you walk over them), but they should be waiting for no red circles to be around (like Imoen talking about the duergar after you fight Ill'ych).

You'll often find that when specific items are required for a quest, that they are supplied to you. The 10 or so fire arrows in the barrel outside of the troll room in the slaver ship is a good example. You'll find more like that as you go on. Most major quest zones have a container or two with ammunition, so you can restock yourself. A couple of those quest zones are either impossible or inadvisable to leave before the quest is finished.

Keldorn: Yes, temple district. Wander through the center of the district, and you can't possibly miss the quest start. Be aware that Keldorn is NOT a replacement for a cleric by any means. Being an Inquisitor, he lacks all spellcasting entirely! His dispel magic and true sight abilities are -immensely- powerful, but when you need healing or Defensive Harmony/Chant/Protection From Evil 10', then you need a genuine cleric. Aerie can do this, and Jaheira can help with some of it. Keldorn also suffers from uber-bad dexterity due to his age, but as AC becomes increasingly irrelevant, this isn't such a big deal.

Yes, it's possible to get to 20 without paying for any. I just prefer not to, because a lot of those rep boosting sources are major quest chains that I like to hold until...um...later.

There are 6 or so rep points you can earn without going through a major quest to get them. Unfortunately, that's not very helpful without spoiling which quests are involved, and at least one of the rep points is a bit obscure. I usually pick up 5 and buy the rest, paying my way to Imoen and picking up some essential shop items (shield of balduran, robe of vecna, a big pile of spell scrolls, and a few other sundry items).

It is quite possible to do quite well at the game without buying anything super expensive from shops. I would not want to try to play without picking up a gem bag, potion bag, and a couple of scroll cases, however. There are 6 scroll cases available from merchants in the game prior to ToB (which adds a 7th). You always want to be carrying one, but I stash the other 5 and fill them with scrolls for Imoen to learn from. Speaking of stashes, I find the best place to do that is on a couple of tables right outside the Copper Coronet. Anything you put into one of those containers will stay there forever, the containers have infinite capacity (at least, I've never run into a limit, and I put a LOT of scrolls into them), the Copper Coronet is easily accessible, and there are 2 (3 with Joluv) shopkeepers nearby, as well as the zone exit. I put scrolls into the left table, and quest widgets, unidentified items, and general folderol in the right table.

For reputation, there is a misprint in the manual. The table should be:

9 -> 10 = 400
10 -> 11 = 500
11 -> 12 = 700
12 -> 13 = 900
13 -> 14 = 1200
14 -> 15 = 1500
15 -> 16 = 2000
16 -> 17 = 2500
17 -> 18 = 5000

Modifié par Matuse, 08 octobre 2012 - 07:33 .

[Pangaea]

Ah, that makes sense. It did look odd how it suddenly dropped off. Was testing and came to the same numbers. 1200, 1500 and 2000 to go from 13 to 16. Quite expensive, but now it's done, and we have some money to spare.

The NPCs constantly butt in with comments while I'm doing stuff, and it's quite annoying. Several times it has been virtually in a fight (once in an actual fight, when Anomen came rushing in to talk), and other times the last guy has barely hit the floor before somebody want to talk about something completely irrelevant. Don't like it one bit tbh. If it happened while standing around in an inn it wouldn't be such a big deal, but the way it works is just annoying.

One of the tweaks I put in was bottomless bags, because the sole scroll bag was rarely enough in BG1. Didn't know we could get as many as 6 or 7 bags in BG2, which would make that tweak unnecessary. Have already picked up bag for gems and scrolls, but not come across a bag of holding yet. Good tip with the table containers, will keep that in mind. So far I have just sold off stuff though.

Think I have to call it a day now, but will try to pick up Keldorn tomorrow.

Minsc has gotten another conversation partner as well. A bloody sword!

--
Oh yes, forgot to comment on the arrows of fire. Yoshimo was walking into that room searching for traps before I had checked any of the loot, and suddenly a troll (which I've never encountered before) came flying after him. Thankfully we had picked up 4 fire arrows elsewhere, but that isn't exactly a lot to take down 2 trolls. Afterwards I found the ones in the barrel.

Modifié par Pangaea, 08 octobre 2012 - 08:14 .

[Matuse]

When short on fire weapons, have the archer hold off, and beat the troll until it falls down. Then you just need a single arrow to finish it off.

You can also have Jaheira memorize a flame blade spell. Level 2 druid spells suck fairly badly, so there should be room for a copy or two of that spell.

[Pangaea]

Yep, that's what I did. Had picked up on how to kill trolls during BG1 as it sometimes showed up as a tip during gameplay, so knew I only had to make the killing blow with fire or acid. So 4 arrows was enough for the pair, but it could have been worrying if Yoshi missed some shots. Will keep in mind the Flame blade spell though, that could be useful if we were to run out of the right types of arrows.

Guess the Flaming Tongue sword should do the trick too, if I ever decide to buy it.

[morbidest2]

Pangaea wrote...

Minsc has gotten another conversation partner as well. A bloody sword!

Take another look at what Lilarcor protects against. It and Minsc were literally made for each other, and eventually you want your whole party to be using +3 (or better) weapons.

When you pick up a named weapon as loot (or, gods forbid, buy one), it usually a good idea to try to match its special properties with the various weaknesses of your NPC's.

Sometimes your NPCs have a verbal diarrhea attack just because you are standing around not doing anything. Hitting the Pause "button" while you are trying to decide what to do next will deflect some of the chatter.

[Grimwald the Wise]

Other spells are also good to finish off trolls. The names of them will be a good hint. Aganizer's scorcher can be used to kill of more than one if you move around, though there is the danger that you might burn allies by doing that. Burning hands, flame arrow, acid arrow and suchlike are also good. Have a few spells memorised just in case. Sometimes you get a host of trolls, but there you get more arrows than you need too. I NEVER buy any arrows. There's no need.

[Pangaea]

morbidest2 wrote...

Take another look at what Lilarcor protects against. It and Minsc were literally made for each other, and eventually you want your whole party to be using +3 (or better) weapons.

When you pick up a named weapon as loot (or, gods forbid, buy one), it usually a good idea to try to match its special properties with the various weaknesses of your NPC's.

Sometimes your NPCs have a verbal diarrhea attack just because you are standing around not doing anything. Hitting the Pause "button" while you are trying to decide what to do next will deflect some of the chatter.

The description was pretty funny, the sword for an idiot, but protection from charm isn't a particular weakness of Minsc, is it? Seems like we all fall for it now and then. At least we did in BG1 (not faced those spells yet in BG2), which is why I often preferred to let Minsc in against sirines and such berserking. I utterly hate mind spells though. So bloody annoying when your allies suddenly start whacking at your mage for example.

Do you mean it's not necessary, or even unwanted, to buy weapons?

Cheers for that last tip too, I've started doing that when I remember it, as it's also annoying that the game takes me away from inventory management or looking at the map because some character wants to say something. It seems everybody love this part of the game, so maybe I'm an odd one out, but I'd greatly prefer it if it was mostly initiated by me and they didn't butt in all the time. It's fine when I'm talking to a foe and they butt in, but not when I'm just wandering around or are (virtually) in the middle of a fight. Then it just detracts from the immersion into the game.

[Pangaea]

Grimwald the Wise wrote...

Other spells are also good to finish off trolls. The names of them will be a good hint. Aganizer's scorcher can be used to kill of more than one if you move around, though there is the danger that you might burn allies by doing that. Burning hands, flame arrow, acid arrow and suchlike are also good. Have a few spells memorised just in case. Sometimes you get a host of trolls, but there you get more arrows than you need too. I NEVER buy any arrows. There's no need.

Got seriously burnt, literally, using Aganozer's Scorcher in BG1, and haven't used the thing since. Just too dangerous for the party members. As long as I have some arrows of fire or acid we should hopefully be fine, we got tons of them in BG1, and I bought some as well (mainly before Durlag's Tower as I had no idea what would face me there). Acid arrows were great actually, because even if an opponent can't be hurt my missiles, the acidic effect still hurts them, so it was quite useful against certain foes - and of course much more efficient than normal missiles. Usually have some flaming arrows memorised though, so if we run out of arrows they can be used in a pinch.

[Grimwald the Wise]

This info probably not rquired for this game, but if you ever solo a mage, or if everyone but your mage is out of action, those spells might be vital. There is an axe that might also be useful against trolls if you solo a cavalier. (No bows) All that's for later though.

About buying weapons. You probably don't need to buy them, but there are some extremely useful items for sale. There is a shield that is a must for a newbie though some don't use it because it is so effective. In this game the mind spells other than those cast by mind flayers aren't the worst as you can protect yourself. It is spells like imprisonment and time stop that are really bad.