120 réponses à ce sujet

[morbidest2]

Pangaea wrote...

morbidest2 wrote...

Take another look at what Lilarcor protects against. It and Minsc were literally made for each other, and eventually you want your whole party to be using +3 (or better) weapons.

When you pick up a named weapon as loot (or, gods forbid, buy one), it usually a good idea to try to match its special properties with the various weaknesses of your NPC's.

Sometimes your NPCs have a verbal diarrhea attack just because you are standing around not doing anything. Hitting the Pause "button" while you are trying to decide what to do next will deflect some of the chatter.

The description was pretty funny, the sword for an idiot, but protection from charm isn't a particular weakness of Minsc, is it? Seems like we all fall for it now and then. At least we did in BG1 (not faced those spells yet in BG2), which is why I often preferred to let Minsc in against sirines and such berserking. I utterly hate mind spells though. So bloody annoying when your allies suddenly start whacking at your mage for example.

Do you mean it's not necessary, or even unwanted, to buy weapons?

Cheers for that last tip too, I've started doing that when I remember it, as it's also annoying that the game takes me away from inventory management or looking at the map because some character wants to say something. It seems everybody love this part of the game, so maybe I'm an odd one out, but I'd greatly prefer it if it was mostly initiated by me and they didn't butt in all the time. It's fine when I'm talking to a foe and they butt in, but not when I'm just wandering around or are (virtually) in the middle of a fight. Then it just detracts from the immersion into the game.

Lilarcor, when equipped, also protects against Confusion, and if anyone in the game is prone to being confused, it's Minsc! Some Named weapons or equipment, as Grim... points out, are worth buying. But on your first run you might want to wait until game play shows you why it's worth spending your money on a particular item.
BG2 is full of different types of mental attacks, so you are going to be pushed into figuring out how to protect your party against them - or else get used to reloading a lot. For instance, when you get a mage mature enough to cast 5th level spells, you have to start making some interesting choices on what to load up with.  It really helps to be careful about reading and remembering every detail in the fine print in an item's description, and to Pause and pay attension to what sort of protective spells a mage - or magical creature - has cast.

[ussnorway]

Tip; For one stop adventureing the level 3 Mage spell 'Melf's Minute Meteors' stays in effect while you rest and will serve you well against most things... Yes that includes Trolls.

[Pangaea]

Matuse wrote...

On the Nalia front...you haven't seen it yet, but mages in BG2 are nightmarish to fight. You want to have a mage of your own specifically for the purpose of taking out other mages. You may even want 2 mages for that purpose. Mages in BG1 were mildly inconvenient. Davaeorn was probably the toughest in that game, and he was still a ****cat. BG2 arcane spellcasters are in a whole other league.

Went to the temple district to look for Keldorn. Came across a bunch of guys, including some mages. I really, really hope those guys were on the tough side, at least now in the beginning!! Used up just about every offensive spell we had, and a fair few defensive ones, and that isn't few when we are 2 mages and 3 priests between us. There are lots of other battles here too, but this was the group in the top left corner just after going down into the sewers. Gaius, Gallobchair, Tarnor - that lot.

Anomen died first. Got held or something and whacked asunder in short time. Looks like his protection went out the window as he got hit on 5-rolls and such. Ridiculous. Minsc was doing quite well and dealing out some damage with Lolicor, then some twunt sent Finger of Death (I think) towards him. BAM and he was gone 

Thankfully we had insect swarm and summon insects and quite a bit of magic missiles, flame arrow, acid arrow, greater malison and so forth, and towards the end we managed to dominate Gallobchair and he more or less killed Gaius on his own. In the end we did manage to slay them, they must have been 6-8 people, but at a pretty steep price.

Don't think I want to try that again though, it was incredibly difficult and I must have kept at it for half an hour with very liberal pausing. Hopefully it won't be terribly expensive to revive Minsc, but don't think I will bother with Anomen. While scouting I saw Keldorn around the corner anyway, and considering I wanted to kick Anomen in the face, I'm quite allright by his corpse being eaten by rats down in the sewer


How on Earth are we supposed to take down this party without getting torn to shreds, though?

I should probably start looking for that shield... Needless to say, solo-ing with a mage is the last thing on my mind now! How people can get through these games without dying I'll probably never fathom.

[Jianson]

Anomen died first. Got held or something and whacked asunder in short time. Looks like his protection went out the window as he got hit on 5-rolls and such. Ridiculous.

Characters that are Held, Webbed, sleeping/unconscious are automatically hit when attacked. Main reason why getting nailed by one of these things is so dangerous. One round of helplessness can leave you dead when there are several opponents around. When you get confused, charmed or panicked, at least AC is still working... 


That sewers party is pretty darn tough for the early game. Finger of Death means the mage must be at least level 14. 
Beefy summons and disabling spells are highly recommended against them.

Modifié par Jianson, 09 octobre 2012 - 01:10 .

[silenceall]

That party is very difficult early, but they have a lot of good loot to sell or use depending on your party's needs. Considering it's your first playthrough and your low levels, I would say the fact that you survived (mostly) is a job well done.

You probably don't need to worry about that shield yet. It's only effective for a particular type of enemy that you probably won't encounter soon. The reason Grimwald mentioned it is that it makes an otherwise extremely difficult foe trivial. That's why many advanced players won't use it.

[Pangaea]

I didn't have any summons at all, which made it all the more tricky. Haven't wanted to use the one charge I got on all those wands in the trapped room in the starting dungeon, as I figured it was better to recharge them once I have the money than to blow them away. Glad to hear this was a difficult fight though, so hopefully not all encounters from now on are as horrible as this. Just happy we survived really.

Not sure if it was the silencing or the insect swarm, but often I saw the line "Spell is ineffective" from Gaius. Whatever did it, the fact he was effectively harmless for a long time despite being alive, probably helped us survive. Entangle from the start helped too.

In BG1 I often used the summoning wands to create a meatshield, but that isn't possible yet in BG2. Maybe the whole thing is quite cheesy, but it does work well. With a wand each on the PC and Dynaheir, there were usually 5+ creaturues alive to keep tough foes occupied, Sounds like that shield is a bit cheesy too, whatever it is used for. Anyway, none of my current people can use a big shield right now as Minsc is using a 2-hander and I want ranged options on most others.

Jianson's explanation on held (or whatever it was) makes perfect sense, because everything seemed to hit him and he was dead very quickly. Minsc went even faster of course; Finger of Death is one nasty trick.

[Matuse]

Confusion and Chaos are an NPC mage's favorite trick (when they aren't casting time stop), and totally devastating to your group. It lasts a LONG time, the spell comes with giant save penalties attached, and they are AOE. Chaotic Commands will stop it, but level 5 cleric spells tend to be in short supply until about level 18-20. Horror, Cause Fear, and Symbol of Fear are other big ones, but Remove Fear gives group immunity and is level 1 cleric, so easy to have available at all times.

I always...ALWAYS pick up the Aeger's Hide armor from the Adventure Mart. It's leather armor for all the characters who work best with that (and there are a lot), it gives a small amount of elemental protection, and most importantly makes you immune to confusion. It's also not very expensive once you get your rep up to 18+.

Tarnor and his group can be tough in the early going. Being underground, you don't have to worry about Coweled Wizard interference, so let your own mage go nuts. Web is highly effective, and even more so when combined with lingering damage spells like ice storm and cloudkill.

Also look to pick up a weapon (any weapon) with bonus elemental damage on it. The elemental damage goes through stoneskins, so is very useful for disrupting spellcasters without having to drop their protections. Once you can Breach (or better, a spell trigger with 2x pierce magic and a breach), mages become much less of a hassle.

Modifié par Matuse, 09 octobre 2012 - 03:43 .

[Piplodocus]

I know Anomen is generally very unpopular, but I'm gonna put a little word in for the guy - yes he is very annoying at times, but y'know, this is a classic Bioware/Interplay/whatever RPG and there is scope in such things for characters to grow and change as stories develop. That's all I'm gonna say...

[Pangaea]

Is there an easy way to defend against all the mind spells?

Have picked up Keldorn, and in his profile it says he has Mind Shield. Do all paladins get this, and does this mean he can't get charmed, dominated, etc? Minsc has some protection too via Lilarcor, and Jaheira has gotten a helm of charm protection. Says Mind Shield on all of them, but are they properly protected against mind spells?

Had a look at the robe of Vaecna but it was incredibly expensive - over 20,000gp. Will have to wait with that one. Aeger's was very expensive too. Got some good loot in that tough sewer fight though, so the AC has dropped a bit. Hopefully AC will mean something for a while longer. Shame about Keldorn's horrible dexterity though. He's be a beast with 16+ dexterity.

Maybe you are right and Anomen will improve over time - hard to get worse after all - but it's too late now as I've kicked his dead corpse from the group and picked up Keldorn instead. Quite happy with this group, and it will be difficult to know what to do when/if we get Imoen back.

Haven't gotten Melf's Minute Meteors yet, but it sounds like something I ought to buy. Seems like people are praising it quite heavily, and oddly enough I've seen people use it in BG1 playthroughs.

Not really done anything more yet, but have gone back to Waukeen's promenade and think I'll head back to the Slums soon. Maybe it's better to progress through the game like it probably intended for us, because that fight with Gaius and co was mighty tough. We're probably not meant to go to that location just yet.

Since both the two-handers of Minsc and Keldorn are pretty fierce, I think they'll get to use them for a while, with bows as backup. I do prefer my tanks to use shields, and Keldorn can actually use Anomen's family shield, but their weapons are so good it makes most sense to use them, especially for Minsc due to mind shield.

Maybe I'm just blabbering on too much here and should just play and see what hits me in the back...

[silenceall]

Pangaea wrote...

Is there an easy way to defend against all the mind spells?

As previously indicated, Chaotic Commands offers complete protection, but that's a level 5 divine spell.  Many items offer immunity to specific incapacitating effects, but usually not everything at once.  Berzerker/Barbarian/Minsc rage/enrage/lunacy typically protects from almost everything.

Have picked up Keldorn, and in his profile it says he has Mind Shield. Do all paladins get this, and does this mean he can't get charmed, dominated, etc? Minsc has some protection too via Lilarcor, and Jaheira has gotten a helm of charm protection. Says Mind Shield on all of them, but are they properly protected against mind spells?

You have to look at the item (or in Keldorn's case the class) description.  Each provides a different type of protection.  In Keldorn's case, Inquisitors are immune to hold and charm spells (immunities are different for each type of paladin).  Lilarcor protects against charm and confusion.  The helm protects against charm only.  It is key to understand what is being cast and what items, spells, and immunities you have to protect the party.

Since both the two-handers of Minsc and Keldorn are pretty fierce, I think they'll get to use them for a while, with bows as backup. I do prefer my tanks to use shields, and Keldorn can actually use Anomen's family shield, but their weapons are so good it makes most sense to use them, especially for Minsc due to mind shield.

There are as many ways to play the game as there are people, but having said that I think that most people would agree that shields are not worthwhile except in specific circumstances where the special resistances/bonuses are needed (i.e., not for the armor class itself).  You are typically better off dual wielding or using two-handed weapons.

[Serg BlackStrider]

silenceall wrote...
The helm protects against charm only.  It is key to understand what is being cast and what items, spells, and immunities you have to protect the party.

The Helm of Charm Protection protects vs Charm, Dire Charm and Domination. Vampires loves to use the latter...

[Grond0]

Pangaea wrote...
Is there an easy way to defend against all the mind spells?

There's something called the Green Amulet, which gives the widest type of protection against mind effects, but it's a long time before you'll get the chance to find that.  Much easier to get (in Trademeet) is the Shield of Harmony, which protects against charm, confusion, domination and hold person - that's a pretty useful item in the early stages of SoA.

[morbidest2]

Piplodocus wrote...

I know Anomen is generally very unpopular, but I'm gonna put a little word in for the guy - yes he is very annoying at times, but y'know, this is a classic Bioware/Interplay/whatever RPG and there is scope in such things for characters to grow and change as stories develop. That's all I'm gonna say...

I would second the motion that you need a full time cleric, in addition to the healing/undead  help that Aerie and Jaheria can give you.In a vanilla game that means Anomen or Viconia, and Vicky is, like Korgan, pure evil. Since your PC is an Ill/thief, Yoshi is something of a spare tire (until you are ready to rescue Imoen). You can buy potions to help with the trap finding - or use Minsc's ranger skills once he gets to the point he can cast a 2nd level spell - or have Aerie memorize the spell to use on him - until your PC gets his trap finding skills up to par. You can also buy dexterity potions to bring back Keldorn's lost youth - save them for major battles.

Modifié par morbidest2, 10 octobre 2012 - 04:54 .

[Pangaea]

Cheers, will keep my eye out for the Green Amulet and the Shield of Harmony. Not heard about Trademeet in-game yet, but it'll come at some point. Bought the Green Amulet in BG1, but never used the thing. I often forget to use items that aren't passive. Too much stuff going on in battles to remember all those bags and inner abilities.

It would be nice to have a full-time Cleric, I really liked Branwen in BG1, but Anomen is dead and Viconia evil, so none are really alternatives right now. Am quite happy with the party too, so think I'll just try this and see how it goes. Will probably trade Yoshimo for Imoen when that time comes. In-game she is still captured and I'm trying to figure out where she is, but I've understood enough to know we'll get her back at some point.

Trying to track down Jaheira's poisoner right now, and then the game suddenly crashed. Can't recall that ever happening before, so hope the save wasn't too far off. I tend to Q-save often.

Have gotten a lot of missions while going around, so will have to start ticking them off. Many mention short time and so forth, but is there actual deadlines for anything? Like the Jaheira curse? Had a nasty flashback of the BG1 poisoning..

[Satyricon331]

There aren't many deadlines, though I think the Jaheira curse is an exception.

Also, I didn't catch anyone mentioning yet that your mages can cast Spell Immunity:Enchantment to protect them against Chaos and the like. I often use it early in the game when my saving throws are bad. In a party, it can be tricky to cast b/c you need to keep the mage selected (they cast Spell Immunity, then if s/he's selected, a list of different spell schools pops up and you can pick Enchantment, or whatever, then they'll keep casting).

Good luck! You're already doing worlds better than I did my first playthrough.

[Pangaea]

That's a good one, although it looks like Spell Immunity only covers the caster. Could still be useful I reckon, so thanks. Good to hear I'm doing allright as well

Got Jaheira's curse sorted in the end, but it took 3 rests before she finally got well again. Weird. Then the game crashed shortly after again. Now I'm a little worried. Can't remember it crashing once in all the hours of BG1 Tutu, in 2.5 playthroughs, and now BG2 has crashed twice today in short time. Just suddenly flies to the desktop with the application closed, without any error message or anything. Is the latest widescreen mod mucked up or something?

[Matuse]

Got Jaheira's curse sorted in the end, but it took 3 rests before she finally got well again. Weird.

No, that's deliberate. 3 rests is 24 hours, a full day.

You haven't left the city yet, but I'm sure you've run into a few people who want you to do jobs for them...they approach you unsolicited when you go anywhere near them. In order to reach those places, you need to exit via the city gate zone (at least, the first time...once you do it once, you don't need to use the gate again). You'll find the Trademeet quest giver there.

[Pangaea]

Okay, the journal just said a rest would sort it out so I assumed one was enough.

Not left the city yet, but have gotten a few missions outside it. Won't leave yet though as I assume combat outside the city is a lot tougher. Think 3 locations are highlighted outside the city at the moment, plus Watcher's Keep, which I assume is the start of the expansion pack.

[Jianson]

Haven't gotten Melf's Minute Meteors yet, but it sounds like something I ought to buy. Seems like people are praising it quite heavily, and oddly enough I've seen people use it in BG1 playthroughs.

They are probably using the mod Sword Coast Stratagems (SCS). One of the options there is to let mages use BG2 spells. This also adds a couple of BG2 mage scrolls to the game (both in stores and as loot). Enemy mages just love to throw Minute Meteors at my party between the spells they cast.

And, you can of course pick MMM if you play a Sorcerer in 'vanilla' Tutu. Not quite as fair, since the enemeis can't get it.

Modifié par Jianson, 11 octobre 2012 - 08:19 .

[Grimwald the Wise]

I haven't read all the posts so someone else might have mentioned it, but if you sell wands and buy them back, you get more charges. It's expensive, but worth it if you have enough gold.

[Matuse]

Watcher's Keep isn't really the start of the expansion, but it is part of it.  Plot-wise, Watcher's Keep doesn't interact with the rest of the game at all.

You will eventually reach a point of no return in Shadows of Amn (that point is pretty unmistakable when it comes, and you are nowhere near it), after which you cannot go back to any of the old areas. Then once you start Throne of Bhaal, those areas will remain gone forever. Watcher's Keep is the only area which you can reach from both halves of the game. Think of it as a much larger (and marginally less sadistic) Durlag's Tower. One huge multi-level dungeon.

But do not wait to go there until ToB. At the very very least, accept the quest and talk to the vendor there. The potion bag she sells is invaluable and she has a comprehensive inventory of spell scrolls. You can also clean out most of the top floor without great difficulty, and get several incredibly useful items. I always make it a point to go there fairly early in all of my games to pick these things up (as well as a pretty decent chunk of cash and XP).

Modifié par Matuse, 11 octobre 2012 - 11:40 .

[Pangaea]

Grimwald, that's one of the things I do a lot in BG1. Feels quite cheesy to be honest to have so loads of charges of summoning, frost and fireball (plus the other wands, which I typically don't use, except the odd magic missile to try to abort spells). Don't have nearly enough money to do that yet in BG2, however. Just picked up the Vecna Robe for a wacko 21,000 gp. Not sure it's worth it as it only lowered AC by 1 (had AC 6 Braces), but the increased spell casting could be useful. Only 3,000 gp left now

Am getting so many missions I'm losing track of them. Trying to complete one, and then 2 others pop up, sidetracking me. One of them led to a rather tough fight... Jaheira buggered off again, and when she came back I followed her into what I thought was some nasty trap tbh, but.... WOW!

Think they were 5 mages, with seriously hard hitting stuff. At first I berserked Minsc and he started whacking at us as I hadn't moved him, so had to reload. Second attempt went better. Berserked him near the mages, and buffed up with iron skins and those spell bouncy-back thingies. The Harpers hasted themselves and buffed up with various stuff. Keldorn threw down a dispel magic, and that helped a lot. I threw out a greater malison which hit most, and at some point Jaheira silenced them. The whole area was webbed as well. Oh, and Jaheira had gotten a 6th level spell, where I picked Fire Elemental. That was pretty useful. The insect summons are very useful too. Hardly does any damage, but tends to muck up their spell casting.

Very tough fight, again, but we were left standing, with very few damages actually. I find that as long as they don't manage to mind spell us, the fights usually go okay. It's becoming difficult to pick spells though, as there seems to be so many good alternatives at level 5 and 6.

Matuse, "old areas" being everything in the city and so forth?
Do I have to do the expansion pack before fighting the last boss here, like in BG1, or are they independent of each other?

Just trying to do as much as possible here before venturing to other places. Still have only been into a few places in the Graveyard and quickly run away at the sight of huge Skeleton Warriors and the like, and not yet been to the Bridge or the City Gates. Though I probably have to go to the Bridge soon as many leads end up there now.

Am trying to play as seems most sensible, so although I know from some of your posts there are great items here and there elsewhere, I kinda don't know about that - if that makes sense. So just trying to do do things as they pop up in-game, although with so many missions it's very easy to get sidetracked. Fantastic game though. As mentioned before I'm not a big fan of (some of) the interjections, but the gameplay itself is wonderful, and I really like this party. Have heard this game is supposed to be less open-ended than BG1, but right now at least it's entirely open-ended. Still early though, so it will probably narrow down as the story progresses, sort of like in BG1.

Going on and on like Minsc and Boo here, but some vampires surprised me in the Docks district. That was nasty... Lightning did good damage, but they pulled some nasty tricks on Minsc and Keldorn - serious level drain. Keldorn lost something like 70-80 hitpoints :ooo Saved some money by putting Lesser Restoration on Aerie and sleeping, though, so that helped a lot. Level drain is permanent right, so I have to restore it somehow?

[ussnorway]

Pangaea wrote...

The insect summons are very useful too. Hardly does any damage, but tends to muck up their spell casting.

Have her target herself... that way they can't block the cast by turning invisible... she has to be standing close to them for this to work.

[Pangaea]

One of them actually turned invisible after he had gotten enveloped by insects, so there was this fog of insects going around, he was even confused. We could see him and hit him, but the fire elemental apparently could. And by sheer coincidence I had taken a Detect Invisibility spell earlier on after a level up, so that cleared him up for us. Same round he died

Mind spells, however, is what I really hate. It just mucks up everything

[Matuse]

Old areas would be everything prior to ToB being released; all of Athkatla, Chez Nalia, Trademeet, Umar Hills, Windspear Hills, and several other areas that you can't access yet.

Once ToB starts, the only place you will be able to access that you can currently access is Watcher's Keep.

It is a bit like TotSC, in that the dungeon is not a part of the main plot. I do an initial sweep of the top floor of Watcher's Keep shortly after escaping Chez Jon, and then I go back for a more comprehensive clearance...um...later. I usually have it all done before I go to ToB, just so I can do ToB without having Watcher's Keep as a distraction. ToB is much more linear than SoA is.

The Bridge District is one you'll be visiting a lot. It's a big activity hub, and personally my favorite outdoor map area. The city gates are almost nothing. It's tiny and there's very little to do. You can go there once and then never set foot in it again. Just uh...watch out for secret doors in the Inn. That won't end well until you get more levels.

BG2 isn't really less open ended than BG1, but it is a lot more focused. There are a TON of areas in BG1 that really don't serve any purpose besides giving you a location to whack some monsters for money and XP while you bulk up your party for the main game. It's exemplified by the houses in Beregost and Baldur's Gate...dozens of doors, almost none of which lead anywhere important. Most of them are peasant houses with maybe a cupboard to loot 5 gold out of. While realistic, it's not really compelling gameplay.

With BG2, pretty much everywhere you -can- go has a reason for going there. You may not see it in your game (the area might involve a stronghold quest for a different class, or a personal quest for a party member you don't use), but they all have something going on.

Modifié par Matuse, 11 octobre 2012 - 04:33 .