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[morbidest2]

Pangaea wrote...
Saved some money by putting Lesser Restoration on Aerie and sleeping, though, so that helped a lot. Level drain is permanent right, so I have to restore it somehow?

  
 
Just remember to reconfigure the drained character's spellbook, or divine/druid spell choice list, after you restore their lost levels and hit points. Otherwise your level 10 mage/illusionist may find that he's down to 2 magic missiles and an old charm spell at the start of a battle.  

[Pangaea]

Matuse wrote...

Old areas would be everything prior to ToB being released; all of Athkatla, Chez Nalia, Trademeet, Umar Hills, Windspear Hills, and several other areas that you can't access yet.

Once ToB starts, the only place you will be able to access that you can currently access is Watcher's Keep.

It is a bit like TotSC, in that the dungeon is not a part of the main plot. I do an initial sweep of the top floor of Watcher's Keep shortly after escaping Chez Jon, and then I go back for a more comprehensive clearance...um...later. I usually have it all done before I go to ToB, just so I can do ToB without having Watcher's Keep as a distraction. ToB is much more linear than SoA is.

The Bridge District is one you'll be visiting a lot. It's a big activity hub, and personally my favorite outdoor map area. The city gates are almost nothing. It's tiny and there's very little to do. You can go there once and then never set foot in it again. Just uh...watch out for secret doors in the Inn. That won't end well until you get more levels.

BG2 isn't really less open ended than BG1, but it is a lot more focused. There are a TON of areas in BG1 that really don't serve any purpose besides giving you a location to whack some monsters for money and XP while you bulk up your party for the main game. It's exemplified by the houses in Beregost and Baldur's Gate...dozens of doors, almost none of which lead anywhere important. Most of them are peasant houses with maybe a cupboard to loot 5 gold out of. While realistic, it's not really compelling gameplay.

With BG2, pretty much everywhere you -can- go has a reason for going there. You may not see it in your game (the area might involve a stronghold quest for a different class, or a personal quest for a party member you don't use), but they all have something going on.

Thanks for that excellent information. Good to know about the areas in particular, because then I need to sort out all quests before the game moves on - whenever that is.

Been trying to tie up some loose ends now, so have at least finished *some* missions. Still not been to the Gates, but have visited the Bridge. Interesting place, though I haven't exactly done much there yet. Not sure if this was a particularly good idea or not, but I'm so used to taking on every mission I get in today's games that morality is kind of out the door most of the time. So because of that, I have now ended up with a guild. Go figure. Am supposed to kick evil in the groin, and then I'm the head of some thieves... Minsc will need to kick me in the groin soon. At least I turned down that vampire lass, so it's not all bad.

Little worried the game will move on, but since we have acquired about 30,000 gp now I suppose it would be time to visit Gaelan again and fork out. Either that, or I'll keep trying to clear up some space in the journal.

[Matuse]

I would visit Gaelan and pay, and then talk to the person he sends you to. You get a couple of extremely nice items from that conversation.

There's no time limit on finishing the tasks assigned, and none of your prior quests will go away. But it does let you budget yourself without having to consider Gaelan's fee anymore.

[ussnorway]

@Pangaea, are you good? Looks to me like the idea of leaving little sis in the hands of an evil sicko while you fetch the milk and then mow the grass is some thing you are fine with.

[Pangaea]

Haha, yeah I'm supposed to be good aligned. Usually act that way too, but have accepted some missions that involved naughty work, like the thieves' stuff. Am a completionist by nature so it's hard to turn down missions :| May bite me in the arse but we'll see. It's a habit from modern games I think, where you can usually do everything in one playthrough.

True Matuse, may as well get that fee out of the way. Think I'll do that when I have time to play again, since you say nothing will get locked out.

[Matuse]

Paying Gaelen will start chapter 3, and any quests you have running will stay running up through the end of chapter 7 (the last of SoA). Right up until you hit the point of no return, you can go back and do anything.

Individual quests from your companions will have time restrictions on them. Nalia will start to complain after about a week if you don't go to her castle...if you delay long enough, she'll leave the party and go there herself.

But the other stuff in Athkatla and the surrounding areas, the NPCs are content for you to wait 2-3 years if need be. Later on, you will be running a series of consecutive plot quests, and those have more stringent time limits. Usually 3 days. When you have to work for some VERY unpleasant people, try to do their jobs fast without dawdling. And in this context, the Shadow Thieves are saints compared to the VERY unpleasant people. You literally can't miss them.

[ussnorway]

The point of no return is {spoiler} Stepping through the elder tree in order to enter the Elf city {end spoiler}.

Modifié par ussnorway, 13 octobre 2012 - 12:43 .

[Pangaea]

Thanks for the explanation Matuse. Sounds like a good setup. Makes me wonder about Minsc though. He has been complaining about a mission to save a village in the Windspear Hills or some such place. Is this his personal mission? That would be strange as it's not particularly tied to him, he just ranted about kicking evil in the ass, as usual, when we got it from a kid. Nalia isn't in the party as I removed her shortly after, but we have the quest, and she went over there herself right away. Is there still a time limit on this then? In that case time must be starting to run out, because we have clocked 8-9 days now I think. We've had to sleep more than I usually do because of the Jaheira curse and several level drains, plus "fetch amulet at midnight" type quests.

Won't have a great deal of time to play over the next days, but it's good to know the general setup and that I can still go about my business in the city without messing up anything. Sounds like I have to work with some very shady people too. Our general do-goodiness will take more blows it seems.

Should venture off and pay Gaelan though. Now when we finally have the money it's not exactly realistic to keep putting off paying him, when my best friend is in mortal danger with some sick bastard "leering over her evilly"

Obviously didn't read the spoiler, but thanks for hiding it

[ussnorway]

Take as long as you want to do Nalias' quest... the timer is only if she is in your group.

[Pangaea]

Cheers, good to know.

[Gate70]

ussnorway wrote...
The point of no return is

Really, I'm sure you can return from there. Wonder if I've got a decent save game to check .

Edit: Pendal and Thimble have one last outing to confirm you can return from there, and from the next area. I expect you can return mid-battle from the final fight there too, only unable to return when that battle completes and you are moved to another area.

Modifié par Gate70, 13 octobre 2012 - 08:50 .

[Matuse]

Minsc's complaint about Imnesville is pro-forma. He won't leave over it.

Nalia, Korgan, Jan, Mazzy, Anomen will all leave if you wait too long. Their quests are...personal. They all give a warning before they do though. Some of the others might (Edwin comes to mind, but I almost never have him in my groups, so I don't know) as well, and others (Keldorn) might get ticked off if you are mid-quest and don't finish it fast enough. Keldorn's quest is suuuuuuuuper easy though, so it should hardly take any time at all.

Of all of your potential companions, Minsc, Imoen, Yoshimo, Viconia have no quest at all (mostly for plot reasons). Aerie's quest may as well not exist, Keldorn's is only slightly more complex than that (you talk to 3 people for Keldorn instead of 2 for Aerie).

Nalia and Valgyar have the most in-depth quest, because it's part of the stronghold they are associated with. Cernd has (IMO) the most difficult quest due to the end fight which is ridonkulous (but it can be avoided). Jaheira has by far the longest quest series.

The rest tend to have fairly short quests with a bit of fighting and traveling to several areas to talk to some people. They aren't super long, but they are also not something you knock out in 30 seconds.

Oh, and if you have Nalia in your group, once you go to inside her keep and talk to the first person in there, that satisfies her as far as the timer goes. I experimented and used the control-T command to pass 4 months, and she never asked about her keep again.

[Pangaea]

Sounds like I probably haven't come across many of their quests yet, unless the "talk to Quayle" is Aerie's. Jaheira had the one where we got surprised by some members of her group. But if her personal quest is really long, that doesn't really fit. Have probably done Keldorn's as that was just to visit his place basically.

I'm glad most missions aren't timed though, because given how many missions you get, that could quickly get stressful.

Suppose you can basically do everything if you keep swapping NPCs, but I like to stick with NPCs when I first settle for some, and that also has the added benefit of making future playthrough more unique as I then have something to do that haven't been done before. Read somewhere that Jan was a hoot to have for example, but given he's an Illusionist/Thief and I am one too, it wouldn't make any sense to include him now.

I quite like that combo btw. Always fun to use magic, and to be able to backstab now and then and go searching for traps and loot is fun too. Basically the most fun parts of the game rolled into one character. And being a gnome gets you the shorty bonus, plus the added spell per level from mage specialisation. I've played way too little of BG in general to know the ins & out and pros & cons of all the classes and various combinations, but it sounds like a pretty strong build to me. And more importantly, it's a fun build to play.

[ussnorway]

Pangaea wrote...

Suppose you can basically do everything if you keep swapping NPCs,

Don't kick the Bard when you first get him or you will lose the quest forever and IME Mazzys' two quests are the most buggy.

[Pangaea]

Think somebody mentioned Time Stop earlier...

Oooooof!!

Rubbed a Lich the wrong way by disturbing his resting place in the Bridge district. Being virtually out of (useful) spells at the time didn't exactly help us, and he and his summoned f®iends raped us nastily. The Lich itself actually got down to Badly Injured, but I think it was all due to the damage it took from whipping Keldorn asunder, as his sword has a backfire effect.

At some point the whole screen turned grey and we couldn't move, while he did his nasty things. So that's time stop... Tough!

Maybe Breach would have helped, but I'm not going back there and mucking with his sarcophagus for quite a while.

[Matuse]

Liches are one of the more challenging opponents you will find. A common tactic for other mages who use protection from magic weapons is to switch to normal weapons...but liches are naturally immune to that, so it doesn't work.

Best things for liches:
1) A time stop of your own
2) A 20+ cleric using turn undead
3) A cleric (better, two) casting Sunray or False Dawn
4) The (Improved) Mace of Disruption
5) Scrolls of protection from undead
6) Thief traps. You can make a lich pop the second its circle turns red.
7) Tactics! Polymorph someone into a mustard jelly, and they get 100% magic resistance. Send that person in alone (but with protection from evil, or you get horked by pit fiends), and the lich will waste a prodigious amount of time and magic while being totally unable to harm you. Keep the rest of the party out of sight.

[Pangaea]

Don't have any normal weapons any more, except arrows, which didn't do anything. I see time stop is level 9 and I won't get that before level 18, so that's far into the future. Polymorph self sounds like a good bet. It isn't considered cheese?

Not going to try that battle again for a long time anyway, as he just ripped us asunder. Not really done anything on the graveyard, but apart from some places on the Bridge, we're starting to run out of missions in the city. I'm thinking it may be time to start moving out. But first I intend to go underground and have a look for those blind fools again. Hopefully I don't run into another Lich down there.

[morbidest2]

Pangaea wrote...

Maybe Breach would have helped, but I'm not going back there and mucking with his sarcophagus for quite a while.

Unfortunately, Liches are only effected by lev 6, or higher, mage spells - need Pierce, not Breach. And a few really nasty ones can only be hit by +4 weapons. Some battles are better saved for Chapter 6.
The first time you play BG2 can be a humbling experience, and it pays to remember the Monty Python battle cry:
"Run away, run away!"
  

Modifié par morbidest2, 14 octobre 2012 - 06:30 .

[Pangaea]

Indeed!

Managed to kill the mage Mekrath and set free Haer Dalis -- I thought. Soon after we're fighting a load of bounty hunters, and one of those nasty pricks keep killing us with finger of death and disintegrate. There is simply nothing I can do about that unless very lucky.

It's what is pretty frustrating about this game, because you simply cannot go into these tough fights and expect to win. You have to lose a few times, figure out what spells they use, then figure out how to counter those. Go back to rest and memorise the right ones, then go back to the battle spot and hope it works out *this* time. Rince and repeat.

In times like this I miss BG1.

[morbidest2]

You could turn right, instead of left, on leaving Mekrath's foyer and save that battle for latter when you are stronger. Or your PC and Aerie could try using some Area Effect spells (poison gas, fireballs,webs, etc.) to try to even the odds. Melf's minute meteors are also useful against magic users. Or your PC could go invisible and do some scouting in the sewer dungeon and see what the dangers are. In general, magic is just as important in BG2 as muscle, which makes it a more balanced game than BG1.

[Abraham_uk]

I've played

Fighter/Mage/Cleric in Baldur's Gate 1.
and

Cleric/Mage in Baldur's Gate 2.

I still don't get what turning undead actually does, other than force a choir to "arrrrr" in a sinister manner.



Also Yoshimo isn't any old Thief, he is a Bountyhunter.
What is the difference between Bountyhunter and the Fighter/Thief dual class?
Also is there areally any point in dual classing Bountyhunter with Fighter?

[Pangaea]

Think I've already done the battle you refer to. There was a group of 5-6 mages roughly NW in the sewers. I bumped into those very early on, and managed to kill them, although we lost Minsc (revived) and Anomen (rat food).

This was when we jumped through a portal after talking to the lass in the 'play' location in the cellar of an Inn. Think I'll refrain from jumping after them, go and rest, and try to go into the old tunnels in the sewers. Then maybe head out of the city after that.

There is still the graveyard, but I fear what meets me there so not going to do it (now).

[morbidest2]

Abraham_uk wrote...

I've played

Fighter/Mage/Cleric in Baldur's Gate 1.
and

Cleric/Mage in Baldur's Gate 2.

I still don't get what turning undead actually does, other than force a choir to "arrrrr" in a sinister manner.



Also Yoshimo isn't any old Thief, he is a Bountyhunter.
What is the difference between Bountyhunter and the Fighter/Thief dual class?
Also is there areally any point in dual classing Bountyhunter with Fighter?

A bountyhunter specializes in creating traps. But you have to really know the game well before you know where it makes sense to put them, since you can't do it in the presense of enemies. You would have to invisibly scout ahead, spy on your enemies, go back and set your traps, go visible and lure the opposition to chase you into the ambush you've prepared. A BH pays penalties in his other thiefly skills, including backstabbing. Since Yoshi doesn't have super strength and can't wear metal armor he isn't a good fighter. Since his backstabbing skills are inferior, he's not good at going invisible, going behind an enemy, and trying to kill them with one blow. Any multi class will grow very slowly in a large party, since each of his classes gets only 1/12th of the party's XPs from kills. If you are addicted to multi-classes, try Swashbuckler. He is like a F/T, but as a single class character gets promoted at normal speed.
Your Undead question was already answered on your other posting. But didn't you see the result in the underground temple at the end of BG1, when a cleric could kill dozens of skeltons in one round? In BG2 the Undead are tougher in BG1, so it doesn't really become a powerful weapon until towards after the first half of the game. But an evil cleric like Viconia can turn the weaker undead and make them allies to use against stronger undead. All of a sudden your party of 6 can be a party of 12, and give you lots of cannon fodder to shelter your main party members.
The beauty of BG2 is that there are often a dozen different ways to kill your enemies. What makes it tough is that you only learn through trial and lots of reloading which methods best suit your playing style. And it pays to carefully read the manual - paper or electronic - to get the basic facts.

[Matuse]

The problem you are encountering with turn undead is that you are doing it with a multiclass cleric. Level matters a LOT, and you have half of what you should by being multi.

Pure clerics can walk into a group of undead and they all explode into chunks instantly. In one of my old games I had Viconia wear a helm of opposite alignment, and I didn't do one of the quest series until very late in the game, when Viccy was about level 24. Well, one of the encounters scales up sufficiently that I got 3 liches in one cluster. At least, I did for about a half second. The entire screen blew into chunks once her turn kicked in. No combination of spell shields, simulacrums, spell immunities, or anything else will defend them against it. KABOOM. The only thing it doesn't work on is Bodhi. In fact, it can be TOO effective, because it will blow up friendly ghosts as well. Use with care in the Temple Ruins.

And Pangea- Death Ward (level 4 cleric/druid spell) will provide total immunity to Finger of Death, Death Spell, Power Word: Kill, Wail Of The Banshee, and Symbol: Death. It also turns off the insta-kill component of Disintegrate. I believe you still take some damage, but your character doesn't turn into a pile of ash.

Modifié par Matuse, 15 octobre 2012 - 04:36 .

[Pangaea]

Sounds like I better memorise Death Ward then. Would be great if it was party based, but one is better than none.

Gave up on that "jump through portal" encounter yesterday, and quickly gave up on the Unseeing Eye business too. Barely got out of the room where I talked to some chap that wanted the first half of a powerful weapon before we got obliterated by some guys. Well, 1 or 2 of us died at least, and I didn't want to think about what came next. That coffin scared me plenty

We headed out to de Arnise's hold instead, getting ambushed on the way. Everything mostly went okay, and my PC even backstabbed some trolls and yuan ti either instantly to death or very close. The Hulks were nasty as hell, though. Had gotten a fair bit of extra healing potions going, but this encounter meant Minsc and Keldorn went through them like a kid through candy on a Saturday evening.

Have cleared the hold and killed the boss downstairs, but there is still a door I can't open (before it's repaired) and one piece of the flail hasn't been found either. Will have another look around today and see if I have missed something obvious. Usually go through containers and such systematically, but you never know.

Oh, and that clay and iron golem were impossible to hurt. After a couple of futile attempts I gave up trying to grab the bow-item in the middle.

On the above post, it sounds like pure clerics are very powerful. Can understand why you suggested Anomen or Viconia now. Shame there isn't a half-decent pure good cleric then, because Anomen was way too much of a pain in the arse for me to have around, and Viconia is evil. The game should be possible to beat without such metagaming though - I hope - so will continue with my current group of Illusionist/Thief PC, Minsc, Keldorn, Jaheira, Aerie and Yoshimo. The latter doesn't really pull his weight all that well, but he seems useful storywise, and his throwing traps have made a couple of battles easier (like on top of the one of the Inns in Waukeen's).

Have finally gotten a familiar and put him in my inventory. HP increased a little, so that was nice.

Not too keen on fighting all these mages and whatnot that destroy us as easily as folding paper, so the trolls in that hold were much more pleasant.