176 réponses à ce sujet

[synapsefire]

ParatrooperSean wrote...

VerySeed wrote...

synapsefire wrote...

Obviously I didn't bother to read the wall of text but does this guy confuse hiding behind counters with tactical play?

Think so.

Edit: Technically you can call it tactical play, just not smart/effective/fast tactical play.

Well, it's not fast because it is effective.

This makes no sense, lol. Would it not be more effective if it were faster?

[Eckswhyzed]

synapsefire wrote...

ParatrooperSean wrote...

VerySeed wrote...

synapsefire wrote...

Obviously I didn't bother to read the wall of text but does this guy confuse hiding behind counters with tactical play?

Think so.

Edit: Technically you can call it tactical play, just not smart/effective/fast tactical play.

Well, it's not fast because it is effective.

This makes no sense, lol. Would it not be more effective if it were faster?

Effective in the sense of "maximal credits given the skill/effort constraints of PUGs"

[Oz not Ozzy]

outsidefactor wrote...

Instead of a disincentive to farm it's just a stronger incentive to farm. And, each time the Geth are made harder, it will just make farming more AND MORE desirable, until they are so hard EVERYONE will have to farm, or fail, simply because there is no other tactic that will work.

www.youtube.com/watch

...and then you get the people like me, who are determined to show that no matter how much they try, I'm gonna demonstrate how futile their efforts are... and it's not like I need the credits any more!

However, I have noticed a significant drop in the calibre of players trying to farm FBW/G/G, particularly over the last few months. My theory is that it's partly due to balance changes cramping their ability to cope with gold matches on maps with less established tactics, but also due to the increasing amount of stuff that is available to unlock now. I imagine it must be quite daunting for a new player looking at the sheer amount of stuff available.... and I can't really blame them for wanting to make credits as quickly and easily as possible in order to unlock that weapon, character, gear, or whatever other piece of kit they really like the look of.

I wouldn't mind so much if so many of them didn't exhibit an apparent unwillingness to burn consumables of any kind whatsoever, especially rockets and medigel during objective waves.

EDIT:
Having just come from a session of playing a few U/U/G games with a friend and a couple of randoms, one of which turned out to be Geth on Vancouver that failed spectacularly, I would just like to reiterate the following points:

1. Playing Geth without 'farming' is getting ridiculously hard... largely due to the stupid amounts of stun lock from Primes, Hunters and missile glitchers Rocket Troopers.

2. Matches fail when half the players completely refuse to fire rockets and use medigel!

Modifié par Oz not Ozzy, 07 octobre 2012 - 02:15 .

[ParatrooperSean]

Annomander wrote...

You are confusing "tactical play" with "abusing the AI because you're too incompetent to beat the difficulty without using some pansy cop-out strategy".

Tactical play is nothing more than taking advantages of weaknesses in the AI. Your use of the word "abusing" is nothing more than a dysphemism.

[ParatrooperSean]

synapsefire wrote...

ParatrooperSean wrote...

VerySeed wrote...

synapsefire wrote...

Obviously I didn't bother to read the wall of text but does this guy confuse hiding behind counters with tactical play?

Think so.

Edit: Technically you can call it tactical play, just not smart/effective/fast tactical play.

Well, it's not fast because it is effective.

This makes no sense, lol. Would it not be more effective if it were faster?

Not necessarily, no. Effectiveness can only be measured with a specific goal in mind. If your goal is to be fast, then no. It's not effective.

If your goal is to maximize your chance of success using the fewest resources, then farming IS effective.

Modifié par ParatrooperSean, 07 octobre 2012 - 12:08 .

[Leonia]

Personally I hate wasting half an hour trying to find a "just right" lobby (or any lobby screen, really hate in-progress matches) only to be consistently dumped into the same map/enemy. You can't change the farmers or the non-farmers so what's the easiest solution to make everyone happy? Give us more search parametres.

Let us fine-tune who we want to play with. Sometimes I want to play with a full biotic squad or any map but Firebase White or any enemy but such and such (and this will be more common once we have a fourth faction). Maybe some days I don't mind a few in-progres matches. But give me the options up front instead of throwing me into a match and saying "good luck, hope it's what you wanted".

My biggest pet-peeve has always been wasting time trying to find a PUG that I actually want to play with, I could have spent that half-hour actually playing the game instead of sitting on load screens.

Modifié par leonia42, 07 octobre 2012 - 12:09 .

[Eckswhyzed]

ParatrooperSean wrote...

Annomander wrote...

You are confusing "tactical play" with "abusing the AI because you're too incompetent to beat the difficulty without using some pansy cop-out strategy".

Tactical play is nothing more than taking advantages of weaknesses in the AI. Your use of the word "abusing" is nothing more than a dysphemism.

A) Good point.
Thank you for teaching me a new word.
C) Obligatory mention of Volus.

Modifié par Eckswhyzed, 07 octobre 2012 - 12:09 .

[Heldarion]

Tactical players are fools, you should eat them. MWRAHAHAHAHHAAH

[78stonewobble]

Good LOOOORD how you frustrate me Leonard Hofstaedter...



If you want to play with specific map, enemy and difficulty settings (including the u/u/X) you MUST make your own lobby to be guaranteed those settings. PS: If your computer is too slow to host that is a problem on your end.



The firebase white geth gold tactic makes use of chokepoints, manipulation / exploitation of enemy spawns and the cover ability. Every me3 mp game ive played does that.

Do you rush/nade spam enemy spawns? Congratulations ... you exploited the fact that the ai spawns apart from you, in a bunch and vulnerable (perhaps even more unrealistic than any amount of camping).

The alternative to any of this is a deathdrome like map where there is no chokepoints, no cover and enemies spawn randomly all around the map.

[Oz not Ozzy]

Annomander wrote...

You are confusing "tactical play" with "abusing the AI because you're too incompetent to beat the difficulty without using one of many stratagies that exploit the nature of the game".

Fixed.

Spawn Manipulation, Camping, Grenade/Missile Spamming Spawns, Right Hand Advantage, Reload Cancelling....

There are many ways to exploit the mechanics of this (or any other) game in order to maximise your chances of survival. Just because camping in cover and waiting for the enemy to come to you doesn't suit your play style because you find it boring (or whatever) doesn't mean it's a "cop-out" any more than manipulating spawns and then spamming them with AoE attacks... or whatever tactic you personally find satisfying.

For every "pansy" cowering in cover because that's all they are capable of doing there's a "rambo" with a death wish charging into battle and getting themselves killed in the thick of the fray and then bleeding out wave after wave.

Just because some of us don't like to run and gun all the time, doesn't mean we're not capable of doing it when the situation warrants it.... we're just smart enough to realise that it's not always prudent to do so.

[Xetto]

Good post. Totally agree! 

[NCETRY]

Easiest way to find a U/U/G match is to creat one. Not that hard to do.

[RedJohn]

It depends on what you see as "tactical", for me tactical is effectiveness and effectiveness means kill faster and without too much noise, which means end a platinum game in -18 minutes, that also implies that sit down in a corner is non-productive and makes the game slow and with the time the team could get badly surrounded.

Tactical playing = kill fast.
Camping = not productive.

[Aiiro]

Tactical =/= farming. You can be tactical while farming. You can also be tactical while not farming. I don't care about farming or if people do it, just don't confuse the two terms.

[Ronnie Blastoff]

Tactical play requires people to pay attention, or at least display a small "essence" of what used to be common sense. Seems common sense now (at least in video games) is the be the dumbest moth^r ****er possible and jackasz everything up on purpose.

Anything that requires a thought process beyond cheese is to hard for the public, so they take the easiest route and fail. I just joined/left 3 games this morning with people camping in panic room FBG on GOLD! Last game I was on krogan invincible and just walked around melee/charging everything and pretended I was playing solo. Didn't even bother to raise them when all 3 of them got dropped in panic room.

[78stonewobble]

RedJohn wrote...

It depends on what you see as "tactical", for me tactical is effectiveness and effectiveness means kill faster and without too much noise, which means end a platinum game in -18 minutes, that also implies that sit down in a corner is non-productive and makes the game slow and with the time the team could get badly surrounded.

Tactical playing = kill fast.
Camping = not productive.

And you don't take advantage (*cough* exploit *cough*) of known enemy spawns, them spawning closely packed and cover (walls)?

Pretty much the same thing as campers do...



All I'm saying is... Have fun playing the game the way you want to but ffs let me have fun playing the way I want to.

It's like: "Oh my neighbour is having a barbeque in his garden... He's doing the barbequing wrong and the fun wrong. I'll look down on that and actually try to spoil it... Atleast a bit..."

[UnRestrikted]

I agree wholeheartedly with the OP. Unfortunately, most of the patrons on this forum don't care for posts of text. The generation of gifs and memes is upon us.

[Elindile]

Ronnie Blastoff wrote...

Tactical play requires people to pay attention, or at least display a small "essence" of what used to be common sense. Seems common sense now (at least in video games) is the be the dumbest moth^r ****er possible and jackasz everything up on purpose.

Anything that requires a thought process beyond cheese is to hard for the public, so they take the easiest route and fail. I just joined/left 3 games this morning with people camping in panic room FBG on GOLD! Last game I was on krogan invincible and just walked around melee/charging everything and pretended I was playing solo. Didn't even bother to raise them when all 3 of them got dropped in panic room.

thats just you being a bigot 

also learn your terms people dictionary.reference.com/browse/effective

im really dissapointed in responses to this thread

[Paigan]

Excellent point. I support it.

Just one thing: You're talking about strategy, not about tactics.
Tactics would be what to do in the middle of combat.
What you talk about, concearning what to do in the grand scheme (e.g. optimize income), is called strategy.

Also see:
Tactics on Wikipedia
"In common vernacular, "tactical" decisions are those made to achieve greatest immediate value and "strategic" decisions are those made to achieve the greatest overall value irrespective of immediate return."

As a side not: ironically, most of the "strategy games" today are actually more like "tactic games" (having much micromanagement to decide the battle no matter how stupid or establishedly monotone the strategy might be. E.g. Starcraft)

[spudspot]

NCETRY wrote...

Easiest way to find a U/U/G match is to creat one. Not that hard to do.

To be fair, that ain't an option for everyone. People tend to lag when I host, so I'll try to avoid that. 

However, I don't get the hate on farming either and I think the OP raises some good points. The funny thing about most people complaining is that they assume that people farm because they'd lack the skill to play the game "correctly". Then they also complain about not having enough randoms (or random lobbies) to play U/U/X with them. 

Quick question to you guys: Would you really like those people in your U/U/G(P) that turns out to be Condor vs. Geth?

I also feel absolutely no pity for people who are able to rage about all those evil farmers on the BSN but seem to be unable to build a working friendslist consisting of people from the BSN. Hey, the "S" stands for "social"*, there are plenty of ways to find people to regularly play with here, problem solved. 

The last time I had to play with randoms in the last 6 months was because I wanted to farm some credits for the upcoming dlc and some of my friends just can't stand that. But hey, I'm talking about 3 or 4 games in half a year, plus that feeling of superiority is almost guaranteed after a match, that ain't such a bad deal.

The game is much more fun with people you know anyway and I've met a nice bunch of nice people here, in fact I doubt I'd still be playing the game if it wasn't for all those funny moments with friends. 

So hey, why all the fuss? Because BW buffed the Geth due to farmers? I doubt it, they actually stated that they discount FBW data to decide whether or not to buff a faction.
 


*Yes I know, there are other interpretations for that letter, but still...

Modifié par spudspot, 07 octobre 2012 - 03:15 .

[Alijah Green]

your talking to a bunch of children so what else would you expect. they can't even bare to read over two paragraph. Most don't even know who Sun Tzu is nor would they care.

[KiraTsukasa]

That wall of text is so large that I'm going to tactically not read it.

[KiraTsukasa]

Alijah Green wrote...

your talking to a bunch of children so what else would you expect. they can't even bare to read over two paragraph. Most don't even know who Sun Tzu is nor would they care.

Not quite. I don't feel like reading a novel about someone ****ing about something that could be done in one or two lines.

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

Alijah Green wrote...

your talking to a bunch of children so what else would you expect. they can't even bare to read over two paragraph. Most don't even know who Sun Tzu is nor would they care.

Oh the irony.

[adamjmorgan]

It is immeasurably harder to play against Geth in the current meta unless using a "tactical" approach. You have to build a team specifically to counter them if you intend to play it as a "normal" match (roaming), which isn't fun in my opinion.

I greatly prefer to play U/U, but with Geth as they are currently that's just an exercise in frustration. So I'm forced to choose Cerb/Reapers, which is lame in my opinion. Once we get Collectors at least it will reduce the chance of Geth to 25%, which I guess is "better"?

The fact that fixing the Geth glitches is a "low priority bug" right now - straight from BW - is really, really frustrating. I think, to the player-base, the Geth bugs are an extremely high priority bug, especially now that they've fixed some of the more glaring issues like Vanguards flying to the moon.