107 réponses à ce sujet

[Epsilon330]

Each faction has its own "Boss/Elite Mook". These units are often heavily protected, and posses unique abilities. I'm sure you are all familiar with the "Goddamn Ninja on Speed!" Cerberus Phantom. I'm also sure that all of you have been killed by a Phantom at least a couple of times.
Only when I started to compare the Phantom to other Boss Units did I notice that they are, well, too well protected against, well, everything.
Let's compare Strengths and Weaknesses, shall we?

REAPERS:
Banshee:
-Extremely durable
-Can cover large amounts of distance quickly
-Hard to hit due to teleport-spam
-AOE attack
-Weak melee
-Weak ranged attack
-Impervious to physics-based Biotic attacks
-Insta-killl
-Magnet Hands

Brute:
-Tough
-Slow, but capable of charging
-Powerful melee
-No ranged attack
-Hard to miss
-Insta-kill

Ravager:
-Somewhat durable
-Slow
-No melee
-Extremely powerful ranged attack
-Can spawn Swarmers
-Leaves hazard on death
-Easy to hit

GETH
Prime:
-Slow
-Powerful ranged attack
-Weak melee
-Extremely durable
-Can spawn Drone, Turret
-Often travels in packs on higher difficulties
-AOE attack on death
-Capable of stunlock
-Easy to hit

CERBERUS:
ATLAS Mech:
-Slow
-Extremely powerful ranged attack
-Weak melee
-Can deploy Smoke/Frag grenades
-Extremely durable
-AOE attack on death
-Can be "healed" by enemy Engineers
-Easy to hit
-Insta-kill

And now...

Phantom:
-Agile
-Capable of cloaking
-Extremely powerful ranged attack
-Extremely powerful melee
-Can block any power whatsoever
-Insane damage reduction when flipping
-Hard to hit when moving
-Moves a lot
-Insta-kill (with higher rate than other units, bar the Banshee)
-Travels in packs
-Somewhat durable
-Vulnerable to powers when Barrier is dropped, firearms when blocking powers
-Above-average AI

Each Boss Unit has a weakness that can be easily exploited, and there is usually a tradeoff between melee and ranged attack power. There is no such tradeoff on the Phantom. If you get too close, you're dead. If you try to run, you're dead. If you take cover, she'll flank you, and , you guessed it - you're dead.

What I propose is not extravagent, nor weak. I have but a small number of ideas to balance the Phantom. Not all are intended to go at once. Maybe just one or two.

-Reduce ranged attack damage
-Make them grabbable
-Reduce damage reduction while flipping by a small margin
-Power-block serves to reduce damage taken, not a full block (physics-based Biotic powers are still blocked)

TL/DR: See above.

Any thoughts?

[Iggister]

That's why they are unleashing the Dragoon, so now Cerberus will have three enemies for you to fear which will dilute the angst against Phantoms. (Phantom, Turret, Dragoon)

[Cyonan]

You never mentioned that the Phantom is the only unarmoured target on that list. That makes it the only thing on that list that can be hit with Stasis, Submission Net, and a whole bunch of CC once her barriers are down.

Also while I am not strictly against nerfing the Phantom, there does need to be consideration in that the rest of Cerberus isn't all that amazing at killing you. I do hope that the Dragoon can fill this role so that the poor girl can take a bit of a rest.

[Blind2Society]

I just thing they should loose their damage reduction. They already have everything else.

[An English Gamer]

MasterReefa wrote...

Meh. There are so many ways to kill phantoms now all my classes can take care of them. A few of my favorites are explosive blades + heavy melee, stasis + hurricane clip to the face, and my favorite sticking her with 50 scorpion pellets and watch her squirm.

I teach her to love by hugging her with my Kroguards forehead. 

But do remove the 90% DR while they're flipping. Making more difficult shots less rewarding is cheap and stupid.

Modifié par An English Gamer, 07 octobre 2012 - 08:46 .

[TheEldrazi]

The phantom can't block energy drain or snap freeze, ever. A couple others as well can get through her bubble. ( I think flamer is one of them.)

All I know is if I play any vanguard, or if I play the paladin I can cut through phantoms like assault troopers.

[Heggy]

Phantoms have very low health and barrier, compared to the other units you have listed. There are ways to take them down very easily. For example, a single overload/energy drain plus a charged Geth Plasma Shotgun shot with warp ammo will immediately down a Gold Phantom, and if it doesn't she'll be staggered and easily hit with another GPS shot. Tech armour explosions will also stagger then, biotic charge will stagger them, Reegars tear them to shreds, Acolyte + Singularity/Pull, stasis and headshot, etc.

Modifié par Heggy, 07 octobre 2012 - 08:47 .

[-tzi]

Also consider this: Every instakill move involves the enemy picking you up and crushing or impaling you.. except Phantom. Once you're grabbed by an Atlas/Brute/Banshee, it's easy to understand not being able to flee. However, Phantom by no means should possess enough strength to hold an angry Krogan in place while she turns around to deliver her fatal stab. I think its unfair to be locked into the position. I'd rather they just initiated their killing blow and if the player is careless and fail to react (=flee), they die.

[Tenkawa]

Acolyte. Or what I did on gold yesterday... novaguard... Nova, charge, shoot when they are on the ground trying to get up, or just nova/charge again when they get up.

If you are fast and dodge back pretty quick it works against a pair of them too.

[danielius]

thats why the first question that comes up when building a class: how does it handle phantoms

[przemko877]

Phantom can be staggered/immobilized by some powers and weapons.

[oO Stryfe Oo]

Phantom's low health are what separate them from Elite Boss units. They can be taken out swiftly with certain classes, and rendered useless with powers like Stasis. I agree that they're extremely deadly, but I don't know about nerfing them. Perhaps when the Dragoon is released, my mind will change.

[CitizenThom]

Ravagers can actually move pretty fast to get into a flanking position I've noticed.

At the same time, Phantoms, yes they move fast, yes they have the bubble. But those two things play against each other. You use powers on her to get her to stop and bubble, then you open weapons fire on her. You use powers on her to get her to bubble so that you can land that finishing heavy melee on her. When you attack a phantom, use your weapons and your powers, and she'll be caught trying to choose between two poisons. When you need to escape her... use powers on her and you get a moment to make a hasty retreat when she bubbles.

[Uchimura]

My only problem with Phantom balance is that there're way too many at a time in later gold waves. Drop it by 1 and it won't be so ridiculous.

[CitizenThom]

danielius wrote...

thats why the first question that comes up when building a class: how does it handle phantoms

and when choosing weapons, "How am I going to deal with Guardians?" I skipped AP mod on a round yesterday, and for some reason the mail slotting was not working... I can only figure there was some lag involved?

[danielius]

I wouldn´t mind if their deadlyness from ranged attacks would be nerft a bit.

[CitizenThom]

Air Quotes wrote...

The damage reduction from hit scan weapons is ridiculous (75% and no flipping needed). The damage, accuracy and range of the palm blaster is ridiculous too.

I'd like all boss units to get an accuracy debuff at long range. The only ones that are reasonable to be accurate from a distance are the Atlas missle, the Prime Drone Incinerate, and the Banshee Warp ball.

[TheJtav]

Just equip a scorpion with ULM and damage mods to stunlock those damn phantoms, THEN hit them with your powers.

Oh. and aim for the ground not directly at them or there barrier will absorb the damage.

[Virgil Sweetlove]

Here we go again.
If you play platinum 10 times, you will find them easy to kill in gold

[Finlandiaprkl]

In my opinion, ranged attack damage should be reduced by 50%. This already would make them much more balanced.

[danielius]

CitizenThom wrote...

danielius wrote...

thats why the first question that comes up when building a class: how does it handle phantoms

and when choosing weapons,

Sure. For me the weapen is part of the class creation.