107 réponses à ce sujet

[Xeraphas]

I think the phantom should at least lose the sniper rifle hands.

[baralaiex]

Yeah, Phantom Invincibility Bubble is pretty ridiculous considering they have insanely high DPS and come in groups.

[Cyonan]

Air Quotes wrote...

The BS part is gonna be :

They add the Dragoon and leave Phantoms the same. 

At the very least they should make less Phantoms spawn.

Or maybe Cerberus waves will all just be 4 Phantoms 4 Dragoons.

Modifié par Cyonan, 07 octobre 2012 - 09:37 .

[Eckswhyzed]

Cyonan wrote...

Or maybe Cerberus waves will all just be 4 Phantoms 4 Dragoons.

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED

[Doni]

Phantoms are fine, except for their huge damage reduction when they dodge (which they do pretty much all the time). When they can stand 4 point blank Claymore shots from a human soldier while doing their flips, there's something wrong.

[V_Davion]

The phantoms are fine. Just get a AA, a N7 Paladin or a Batarian Sentinel if you are afraid of them

[HTTP 404]

I disagree, phantoms are fine. the bosses are fine.

[plain numbers]

You compare all the bosses from all factions while leaving out the most important variable: the factions themselves.

If you ner-- excuse me, balance phantoms, Cerberus is going to be the definition of a joke, cause them excluded, they already are a joke. Reapers and Geth don't rely on bosses exclusively to be challenging, whereas Cerberus do.

Denied. Phantoms are fine.

[billy the squid]

Epsilon330 wrote...

Each faction has its own "Boss/Elite Mook". These units are often heavily protected, and posses unique abilities. I'm sure you are all familiar with the "Goddamn Ninja on Speed!" Cerberus Phantom. I'm also sure that all of you have been killed by a Phantom at least a couple of times.
Only when I started to compare the Phantom to other Boss Units did I notice that they are, well, too well protected against, well, everything.
Let's compare Strengths and Weaknesses, shall we?

And now...

Phantom:
-Agile
-Capable of cloaking
-Extremely powerful ranged attack
-Extremely powerful melee
-Can block any power whatsoever
-Insane damage reduction when flipping
-Hard to hit when moving
-Moves a lot
-Insta-kill (with higher rate than other units, bar the Banshee)
-Travels in packs
-Somewhat durable
-Vulnerable to powers when Barrier is dropped, firearms when blocking powers
-Above-average AI

Each Boss Unit has a weakness that can be easily exploited, and there is usually a tradeoff between melee and ranged attack power. There is no such tradeoff on the Phantom. If you get too close, you're dead. If you try to run, you're dead. If you take cover, she'll flank you, and , you guessed it - you're dead.

...

Any thoughts?

-Capable of cloaking
So? They're not exactly hard to see. Aim at the middle of the shimmer and let rip.

-Extremely powerful ranged attack
Yeah and, same as a Banshee, Ravager or Atlas, just harder to spot when they fire. Plus Banshees are worse, considering if it hits it eats through your shields and HP as well

-Extremely powerful melee
Like the Brutes and Banshees so?

-Can block any power whatsoever
-Insane damage reduction when flipping
-Hard to hit when moving
-Moves a lot
They only move and dodge when they get close or start taking heavy fire. Have you seen what a cloaked Widow/Javelin round to the head, full barrier or not does? Their head explodes. Frankly, if they move a lot then they got too close and yeah you're in trouble because you weren't paying attention and got blindsided.

Considering when beyond a certain range they run straight at you, without bothering put up their barrier or even cloak at times. It's not difficult. Hell, they should be your number one target at that point they're bloody easy to deal with.

If you muck up. then back off and keep firing, find cover and then hit them again when they drop the barrier or stop flipping. When they're doing that they're not hitting you with the palm cannon O'doom so It's a good thing.

-Insta-kill (with higher rate than other units, bar the Banshee)
If they get that close, which they shouldn't. Plus they get staggered easily. I hit them with a prox mine when I'm running a Turian soldier then empty a Harrier clip into their face when they get staggered. And that's when I've messed up and failed to take them out at range.

-Travels in packs
On Gold or above, we all know it's boss spam on higher difficulties and end waves and we've all dealt with them before. So I'm not seeing your point. Whan i danger, rocket mobs, thats what they're for.

-Somewhat durable
No they're not, they're really not. Throw enough fire their way and they go down fast and get staggered easily.

-Vulnerable to powers when Barrier is dropped, firearms when blocking powers
-Above-average AI
As above, running from the spawn uncloaked or standing still for a couple of seconds, or taking cover with their head poking out the top is not what I call above average AI.

Major danger of the Phantom is the Barrier, and flipping damage reduction. Thus becoming so distracted you get overrun by everything else. A good pair of players can take out a Phantom easily while the rest of the team keeps the rest of the wave off you. Nerf that and they become like engineers and guardians k-ching easy target worth lots of points.

Modifié par billy the squid, 07 octobre 2012 - 09:58 .

[Nuranin]

i also believe they are fine...just attack them with anything which interrupts there attack:
- biotic jump
- stong close-quarter attack (the ones of paladin and slayer might be the best)
- large caliber weapons
- grenades
...
i don`t see the problem

i usually play a n7 slayer and for me everything i smore dangerous then a phantom...banshees are faster, stronger and make more damage, even geth hunter is more dangerous to me (because there are more of them),

Modifié par Nuranin, 07 octobre 2012 - 09:53 .

[ElementL09]

Their barriers are annoying, but it makes them sitting ducks. And there pretty flimsy too, my Destroyers heavy Melee can nock them off balance if they ever try to swipe at me.

[cronshaw]

Phantoms are perfect the way they are. Primes and Banshees are way more cheap and annoying

[Blind2Society]

Scruffaluphagus wrote...

except for their huge damage reduction when they dodge (which they do pretty much all the time). When they can stand 4 point blank Claymore shots from a human soldier while doing their flips, there's something wrong.

Very true. In my eyes, them flipping to make it harder to hit them makes sense but the damage reduction doesn't.

I also don't think their buble should block melee and I like the idea of palm blaster damage being based on range.

[Googleness]

stasis
reegar
flame thrower
'nades spam
submission net
etc...
=
Dead phantom.

[Apl_Juice]

I don't think they need a nerf.

Their shield comes at the cost of not being able to move, fire, or use their sword. There are plenty of guns even casters can carry that can kill them at that time, such as the Paladin, Talon, or Hurricane.

Their flip action is pretty much your cue to use your power, since they'll eat it as soon as they recover from it.

Their melee is a pain, but isn't a threat if you pay attention to your surroundings. Remember, Phantoms never approach you with their cloak; they only use it when their barriers drop to get away.

No one should ever be insta-killed other than Krogans, batarians, and Turians, since they can't roll away after the Phantom melee them.

Finally, Phantoms are scrawny and have a very low stagger resistance. Concussive Shot, the Falcon, Scorpion, and nearly every heavy melee can stagger them quite well.

They're a pain in groups, sure, but that's why you have a team.

[baldmop]

Phantoms are okay I think of the bosses brutes need a buff .

[Grunt_Platform]

The only thing I would change about Phantoms is their Phase Disruptor.

When a gang of 4 phantoms spawn in a single glob in later waves, having the misfortune to be anywhere near that is just asking to be shredded to seconds by the ranged attack of a melee unit. Usually not a problem, but hoo boy it's obnoxious, especially when their AI gets stuck on spamming it.

They are seriously more dangerous at mid-to-long range than in close combat.

[Zaidra]

Iggister wrote...

That's why they are unleashing the Dragoon, so now Cerberus will have three enemies for you to fear which will dilute the angst against Phantoms. (Phantom, Turret, Dragoon)

We don't know what a dragoon is yet, do we? It could be a pegasus with guns for all we know. 

If we have specifics on this, please show me where, cause I haven't seen any xD

In response to the OP: To be fair, you can shoot their swords and take away melee abilites. Also, when they're shielded, they can't attack.  
You just need to be smart when playing against them. Like the guide says, Cerberus is the most tactical force that will be thrown at you. 

[Apl_Juice]

Dragoons are the Phoenix guys that didn't defect to N7

[Zaidra]

baldmop wrote...

Phantoms are okay I think of the bosses brutes need a buff .

See that's the thing... I don't think Brutes are actually supposed to be bosses, but just another unit for the Reapers. Same as Ravager. Brutes are really easy to take down and really not that powerful unless you let them get close. Though they are big, I don't think they count as "bosses". If they were supposed to, i think they'd be better. 

[sartt]

Epsilon330 wrote...

Each faction has its own "Boss/Elite Mook". These units are often heavily protected, and posses unique abilities. I'm sure you are all familiar with the "Goddamn Ninja on Speed!" Cerberus Phantom. I'm also sure that all of you have been killed by a Phantom at least a couple of times.
Only when I started to compare the Phantom to other Boss Units did I notice that they are, well, too well protected against, well, everything.
Let's compare Strengths and Weaknesses, shall we?

REAPERS:
Banshee:
-Extremely durable
-Can cover large amounts of distance quickly
-Hard to hit due to teleport-spam
-AOE attack
-Weak melee
-Weak ranged attack
-Impervious to physics-based Biotic attacks
-Insta-killl
-Magnet Hands

Brute:
-Tough
-Slow, but capable of charging
-Powerful melee
-No ranged attack
-Hard to miss
-Insta-kill

Ravager:
-Somewhat durable
-Slow
-No melee
-Extremely powerful ranged attack
-Can spawn Swarmers
-Leaves hazard on death
-Easy to hit

GETH
Prime:
-Slow
-Powerful ranged attack
-Weak melee
-Extremely durable
-Can spawn Drone, Turret
-Often travels in packs on higher difficulties
-AOE attack on death
-Capable of stunlock
-Easy to hit

CERBERUS:
ATLAS Mech:
-Slow
-Extremely powerful ranged attack
-Weak melee
-Can deploy Smoke/Frag grenades
-Extremely durable
-AOE attack on death
-Can be "healed" by enemy Engineers
-Easy to hit
-Insta-kill

And now...

Phantom:
-Agile
-Capable of cloaking
-Extremely powerful ranged attack
-Extremely powerful melee
-Can block any power whatsoever
-Insane damage reduction when flipping
-Hard to hit when moving
-Moves a lot
-Insta-kill (with higher rate than other units, bar the Banshee)
-Travels in packs
-Somewhat durable
-Vulnerable to powers when Barrier is dropped, firearms when blocking powers
-Above-average AI

Each Boss Unit has a weakness that can be easily exploited, and there is usually a tradeoff between melee and ranged attack power. There is no such tradeoff on the Phantom. If you get too close, you're dead. If you try to run, you're dead. If you take cover, she'll flank you, and , you guessed it - you're dead.

What I propose is not extravagent, nor weak. I have but a small number of ideas to balance the Phantom. Not all are intended to go at once. Maybe just one or two.

-Reduce ranged attack damage
-Make them grabbable
-Reduce damage reduction while flipping by a small margin
-Power-block serves to reduce damage taken, not a full block (physics-based Biotic powers are still blocked)

TL/DR: See above.

Any thoughts?

Reaper Implants / Cerberus Implants / Alliance Black Op Gone Rogue / Female " FLEXABILTY "

NO GRAB FOR YOU.

[Zaidra]

Apl_J wrote...

Dragoons are the Phoenix guys that didn't defect to N7

Source please?


ah nvm- saw it in the trailer

Modifié par Zaidra, 07 octobre 2012 - 10:22 .

[Lord_Dweedle]

Ive never had issues with Phantoms really, Overload takes down their Barrier and then usually someone else would gun it to death...

they are only an issue, imo, when they have other enemys around for them to hide in.

throw up a drone to distract them is also another viable idea, drone splodes are helpful dealin with phantoms.

Modifié par Lord_Dweedle, 07 octobre 2012 - 10:27 .

[kipac]

Make phantoms grabbable? That's too much.