Dr_Extrem wrote...
it is not about rebuilding - its about mass murderering a whole sentient species in the first place.
i highly doubt, that the quarians would ever try to rebuild the geth .. the first time they did it, the geth nearly whiped them out.
Modifié par BatmanTurian, 08 octobre 2012 - 11:57 .
Oh, please. You know what happens when he doesn't upload the code? They all die.BatmanTurian wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
You use the word crime as if it has some meaning beyond a legally recognized wrongdoing. An atrocity does not require legal recognition to be an atrocity.Aaleel wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
Annihilating an entire sentient race, allies no less, is heinous no matter what way you spin it. What your doing is rationalizing away just how bad it is through semantics.Aaleel wrote...
Kabooooom wrote...
You did not commit genocide on the citizens of whatever country you used it in, you just didn't I'm sorry. What you did was not a war crime.
This was analogous to using the atomic bombs. A similar situation, but no one can question the moral ramifications of that choice. Whether you call it genocide, or mass murder of innocents, or a war crime - whatever you want to call it, it doesn't matter. You are killing people to save a greater number of people.
The problem is, as Taboo pointed out and as I pointed out earlier in this discussion, people are trying to rationalize away responsibility. And that's kind of missing the point.
People are not trying to rationalize responsibility. Shepard did it, just like he/she flew the asteroid in the relay. Shepard is responsible for thsose deaths and has to live with it. People are saying that what they did does not constitute a heinous WAR CRIME.
No one said it wasn't bad. Like I said in my other post Shepard did it and has to live with it. But what Shepard did wasn't a crime.
When the reapers first came through Hackett sacrificed an entire fleet to allow the others to escape and live on to fight another day. Judging by this thread Hackett committed a crime and murdered these people.
I'd say the difference is that Hackett didn't point a gun at that fleet and fire, nor was that fleet the entirety of a species.
All of which is beside the point, because, through Shepard's knowing and deliberate action, a friendly sentient race that had only begun to explore its potential as individual thinking beings was made extinct.
Let's not forget part of the responsibility is on the Geth themselves and specifically Legion. He uploaded the Reaper code, so he doomed his own race. Instead of taking the short road and looking for a solution, they made a quick shortcut and it ended up biting them in the @**
Lord Aesir wrote...
You use the word crime as if it has some meaning beyond a legally recognized wrongdoing. An atrocity does not require legal recognition to be an atrocity.
I'd say the difference is that Hackett didn't point a gun at that fleet and fire, nor was that fleet the entirety of a species.
All of which is beside the point, because, through Shepard's knowing and deliberate action, a friendly sentient race that had only begun to explore its potential as individual thinking beings was made extinct.
Using "emo" to put down the moral issue doesn't say much for your maturity.BatmanTurian wrote...
Either way they can be rebuilt so it's not extinction when we're talking about synthetics. Stop being emo about it.
Lord Aesir wrote...
Oh, please. You know what happens when he doesn't upload the code? They all die.BatmanTurian wrote...
Let's not forget part of the responsibility is on the Geth themselves and specifically Legion. He uploaded the Reaper code, so he doomed his own race. Instead of taking the short road and looking for a solution, they made a quick shortcut and it ended up biting them in the @**
Oh, please. You know what happens when he doesn't upload the code? They all die.
Lord Aesir wrote...
Using "emo" to put down the moral issue doesn't say much for your maturity.BatmanTurian wrote...
Either way they can be rebuilt so it's not extinction when we're talking about synthetics. Stop being emo about it.
MegaSovereign wrote...
Oh, please. You know what happens when he doesn't upload the code? They all die.
Uh yea, over a false dilemma Bioware created. Legion could have easily waited to see if Shepard could get the Quarians to back off before he uploaded the code.
Modifié par Rip504, 09 octobre 2012 - 12:02 .
MegaSovereign wrote...
Oh, please. You know what happens when he doesn't upload the code? They all die.
Uh yea, over a false dilemma Bioware created. Legion could have easily waited to see if Shepard could get the Quarians to back off before he uploaded the code.
Rip504 wrote...
Also where do people get this "Innocent" ally line?
The Geth have been hostile for 300+ years of their 300+ year existence. Even on Rannoch the Geth are willing to kill the Quarians after being freed from the Reapers. Before they chose to help the Reapers commit the Genocide of every sentient race in the Galaxy,be it synthetic or organic.
BatmanTurian wrote...
Dr_Extrem wrote...
it is not about rebuilding - its about mass murderering a whole sentient species in the first place.
i highly doubt, that the quarians would ever try to rebuild the geth .. the first time they did it, the geth nearly whiped them out.
Either way they can be rebuilt so it's not extinction when we're talking about synthetics. Stop being emo about it.
dirtdiver32318 wrote...
Haha being emo I can not say that I have ever heard that one before.
When you think of it if they could rebuild the mass relays why would they just not build the geth and EDI all over again. there was peace between both of them why not just re build them as well.. Seems like a simple solution I'd say. Just sayin'
BatmanTurian wrote...
Rip504 wrote...
Also where do people get this "Innocent" ally line?
The Geth have been hostile for 300+ years of their 300+ year existence. Even on Rannoch the Geth are willing to kill the Quarians after being freed from the Reapers. Before they chose to help the Reapers commit the Genocide of every sentient race in the Galaxy,be it synthetic or organic.
technically not true. The Geth didn't go after the Quarians and only became hostile when Sovereign interfered and created the Heretics by altering their code.
Dr_Extrem wrote...
BatmanTurian wrote...
Dr_Extrem wrote...
it is not about rebuilding - its about mass murderering a whole sentient species in the first place.
i highly doubt, that the quarians would ever try to rebuild the geth .. the first time they did it, the geth nearly whiped them out.
Either way they can be rebuilt so it's not extinction when we're talking about synthetics. Stop being emo about it.
lets play a mindgame:
if a criminal kills the person you love most, it is not murder, if your loved one can be cloned out of his/her remains?
so the criminal would not have to pay for the crime as well, because the damage can be undone?
your arguments made me sick - i am out.
Aaleel wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
You use the word crime as if it has some meaning beyond a legally recognized wrongdoing. An atrocity does not require legal recognition to be an atrocity.
I'd say the difference is that Hackett didn't point a gun at that fleet and fire, nor was that fleet the entirety of a species.
All of which is beside the point, because, through Shepard's knowing and deliberate action, a friendly sentient race that had only begun to explore its potential as individual thinking beings was made extinct.
You knowingly upon the word of the enemy who is about to die and has every reason to lie?
And Genocide has nothing to do with the number but everything to do with the intent. You can commit genocide on five thousand, five hundred thousand, five million, or every single member of the race.
And saying well the person didn;t actually fire the gun is no different than what you're accusing other people here of doing.
Some of the Geth did these things but not all. It's not completely cut-and-dry.Rip504 wrote...
BatmanTurian wrote...
Rip504 wrote...
Also where do people get this "Innocent" ally line?
The Geth have been hostile for 300+ years of their 300+ year existence. Even on Rannoch the Geth are willing to kill the Quarians after being freed from the Reapers. Before they chose to help the Reapers commit the Genocide of every sentient race in the Galaxy,be it synthetic or organic.
technically not true. The Geth didn't go after the Quarians and only became hostile when Sovereign interfered and created the Heretics by altering their code.
So the Geth did not have an uprising on Rannoch in which they killed Billions? Can you prove the Heretics have existed for 300+ years? Were the Geth not willing to help the Reapers destroy all life in the name of their own survival?
Were you the one touching on realism and consequences earlier?BatmanTurian wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
Using "emo" to put down the moral issue doesn't say much for your maturity.BatmanTurian wrote...
Either way they can be rebuilt so it's not extinction when we're talking about synthetics. Stop being emo about it.
Navel gazing about having to kill a fictional synthetic race because the writers force you to if you want to destroy the Reapers doesn't help things either.
Lord Aesir wrote...
Were you the one touching on realism and consequences earlier?BatmanTurian wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
Using "emo" to put down the moral issue doesn't say much for your maturity.BatmanTurian wrote...
Either way they can be rebuilt so it's not extinction when we're talking about synthetics. Stop being emo about it.
Navel gazing about having to kill a fictional synthetic race because the writers force you to if you want to destroy the Reapers doesn't help things either.
Not really, if the geth are still considered synthetic life without the upgrades, Destroy could still kill them regardless.BatmanTurian wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
Oh, please. You know what happens when he doesn't upload the code? They all die.BatmanTurian wrote...
Let's not forget part of the responsibility is on the Geth themselves and specifically Legion. He uploaded the Reaper code, so he doomed his own race. Instead of taking the short road and looking for a solution, they made a quick shortcut and it ended up biting them in the @**
Regardless, what I'm saying is undeniable.
Lord Aesir wrote...
Not really, if the geth are still considered synthetic life without the upgrades, Destroy could still kill them regardless.BatmanTurian wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
Oh, please. You know what happens when he doesn't upload the code? They all die.BatmanTurian wrote...
Let's not forget part of the responsibility is on the Geth themselves and specifically Legion. He uploaded the Reaper code, so he doomed his own race. Instead of taking the short road and looking for a solution, they made a quick shortcut and it ended up biting them in the @**
Regardless, what I'm saying is undeniable.
Lord Aesir wrote...
Aaleel wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
You use the word crime as if it has some meaning beyond a legally recognized wrongdoing. An atrocity does not require legal recognition to be an atrocity.
I'd say the difference is that Hackett didn't point a gun at that fleet and fire, nor was that fleet the entirety of a species.
All of which is beside the point, because, through Shepard's knowing and deliberate action, a friendly sentient race that had only begun to explore its potential as individual thinking beings was made extinct.
You knowingly upon the word of the enemy who is about to die and has every reason to lie?
And Genocide has nothing to do with the number but everything to do with the intent. You can commit genocide on five thousand, five hundred thousand, five million, or every single member of the race.
And saying well the person didn;t actually fire the gun is no different than what you're accusing other people here of doing.
Don't fall back on the "He could be lying!" business. If we can't accept what the Catalyst says as truthful, there's no reason to believe that Destroy will kill the Reapers.
Shepard's intent was to annhilate all synthetics to kill the reapers. Which involves destroying an entire friendly species. If Shepard knew about the consequences of his actions and took those actions, he intended those consequences to occur. Whether or not he liked those consequences is beside the point. I don't really care what word you want to stick to it. You're still hiding behind semantics
Shepard pulled the trigger himself so I'm afraid you're mistaken.
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