1304 réponses à ce sujet

[masster blaster]

Yet they would want Shepard/ YOU to kill the Reapers, not save them. We ALL know that everyone wanted to kill the Reapers, yet I am speaking the truth. What Anderson say to Shepard if you were going to pick Synthesis.

" Shepard no. Don't we have to kill the Reapers now." And you would deni everyone vegance on the Reapers.

They killed Shepard in ME2, they blow up the SR1, they killed Pressly, and 19 of Shepard's crew memebers, and they went after Shepard's old friends. To hell with the Reapers. You think only for what you want, and not what everyone else wants.

If you were to ask them what the galaxy would want, I say the would say " Kill the Reapers." No matter how hard I try to tell you, you are not going to listen, and you know what I am okay with that.

[masster blaster]

I have lord. And you made your choice to side with them. You wanted the Reapers to live because of EDI, and the Geth.

Did you ever think about Arrival. Either way weather you are Paragon, or not in the end 300,000 Batarians die. That's on Shepard. That's genocied, even though Paragon Shepard tried to stop it, it didn't work.

[Reorte]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Why not? Kill all humans and then clone one from the remains and you've got humans again. Rebuild the geth and you've got the geth again. You'll have lost all the personality and possibly culture and knowledge, depending upon whether it was recorded somewhere separately or not and that's a big loss but it's not the loss of an entire species.

Without it, that species is lost as a people, forever.  The loss is not something that can be recovered.

Without that knowledge, the geth are something else entirely

The species is still there, the culture is lost. No different from starting up a bunch of humans entirely separated and with no knowledge of the existance of other humans. They're still human, even if culturally they'd probably wind up completely different from any we know.

Modifié par Reorte, 09 octobre 2012 - 01:00 .

[Heimdall]

masster blaster wrote...

Yet they would want Shepard/ YOU to kill the Reapers, not save them. We ALL know that everyone wanted to kill the Reapers, yet I am speaking the truth. What Anderson say to Shepard if you were going to pick Synthesis.

" Shepard no. Don't we have to kill the Reapers now." And you would deni everyone vegance on the Reapers.

They killed Shepard in ME2, they blow up the SR1, they killed Pressly, and 19 of Shepard's crew memebers, and they went after Shepard's old friends. To hell with the Reapers. You think only for what you want, and not what everyone else wants.

If you were to ask them what the galaxy would want, I say the would say " Kill the Reapers." No matter how hard I try to tell you, you are not going to listen, and you know what I am okay with that.

What everyone wants is for the threat to them and their loved ones to be ended.  I am not some vengeful spirit.  My goal is to save lives, killing Reapers was only ever a means to that goal.  Yes, I would deny them vengeance when the alternative is killing my friends.

You think your petty vengeance is worth more than the lives of the geth?  An entire race lost forever?  Some posters actually have a good reason for choosing destroy, they think it's the safest bet to killing the reapers, and I can respect that, but vengeance is selfish by its nature.

You, child, have my contempt.

[masster blaster]

Legion didn't want Synthesis. He wanted his people to Become TRUE AI's like EDI was. EDI liked that Shepard made her feel alive, and so did Joker. EDI says the Reapers are repulsive, yet EDI says in Synthesis, that the Reapers are their friends.

I say you not only reworte the galaxys DNA, but their personalitys, and in ME2 if you rewrite the Geth Heritacs your squad sasy you killed them. Even though their bodys are still there, you killed the machian that it once was, and that is why I hate synthesis because that's what you do.
Javik, and the Leviathans would NEVER be friends with the Reapers and yet in Synthesis they don't take action. They are not themselfs anymore, and you know that.

[Iconoclaste]

Don't be afraid of the unknown, Masster!

[Heimdall]

Reorte wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Why not? Kill all humans and then clone one from the remains and you've got humans again. Rebuild the geth and you've got the geth again. You'll have lost all the personality and possibly culture and knowledge, depending upon whether it was recorded somewhere separately or not and that's a big loss but it's not the loss of an entire species.

Without it, that species is lost as a people, forever.  The loss is not something that can be recovered.

Without that knowledge, the geth are something else entirely

The species is still there, the culture is lost. No different from starting up a bunch of humans entirely separated and with no knowledge of the existance of other humans. They're still human, even if culturally they'd probably wind up completely different from any we know.

The biological continuity is irrelevant.

The species we know would be lost forever.  In its place we'd have only the aspect of humanity.  These "geth" would not be the same species that fought for freedom in the morning war and has persisted in an independant civilization for three centuries.

Besides, I'm not certain anyone has besides the geth has sufficient understanding of geth code to reconstruct it exactly.

[wantedman dan]

knightnblu wrote...

I stopped reading responses to my position when they essentially boil down to "I reject your reality and substitute my own" and nebulous claims to a relativistic ethical reality. The first is self explanatory, the second is only slightly more interesting. You claim ethical relativity, but that begs the question relative to what? Funny how that slipped your scathing intellectual attack isn't it? Further you presume to know ethics, but seem shockingly ignorant of Mill and Bentham and their utilitarianism. You can look that up on Wikipedia later. Also you apparently have never studied formal logic or you wouldn't have fallen prey to the fallacy of the ad hominem.
 
Nice try for an amateur though.

I when stupid people use impressive phraseology and intellectually stimulating word choice to hide their utter lack of substantive argument. I'm well aware of the fact that I insulted you (hence why it was so obvious).

Furthermore, your inferences are blissfully ignorant, against both me and my argument (Re: Categorical vs. Relativistic). Your grasp of logic, despite chastising me for the very same, is mediocre at best--you might want to check your own arguments for logical fallacies before panicking about others.

I'm guessing you're midway through a 100-level Ethics course in your college's philosophy department, or you've recently been introduced to the major. I am going through the former, personally. I have a basic comprehension of a few main ethical ideologies. It's nothing to be ashamed of; what is, however, is your desperate grab at relevance and superiority over an internet forum spewing a) what your professor stated earlier this semester and ignoring that ethics are completely relative to the person who holds it.

I remember when I argued like this. It was freshman year and I thought I knew everything.

Modifié par wantedman dan, 09 octobre 2012 - 01:11 .

[masster blaster]

Lord as was Saren's right. To save him, and the galaxy.

TIM to save humanity.

All the people that were Indoctrinated said they did this to protect the galaxy, and their races, yet we know they were infulenced to say it.

And in the end most of them killed themselfs because they were wrong. Yet your are doing the same thing they were doing. You brush Saren aside like he didn't want Synthesis, but he did.

[masster blaster]

Oh so it's okay for the Reapers to live, but not have the cycles have peace.

If you say the Reapers are being controled, then would they REALLY want to live as a monster that killed, and harvested Trillions of races in EACH cycle? No. Was it right for you to Bring back to life ALL the husk back to life. No they needed to die. I would never let anyone live like that. The Reapers needed to die and that is all.

[Heimdall]

masster blaster wrote...

Legion didn't want Synthesis. He wanted his people to Become TRUE AI's like EDI was. EDI liked that Shepard made her feel alive, and so did Joker. EDI says the Reapers are repulsive, yet EDI says in Synthesis, that the Reapers are their friends.

I say you not only reworte the galaxys DNA, but their personalitys, and in ME2 if you rewrite the Geth Heritacs your squad sasy you killed them. Even though their bodys are still there, you killed the machian that it once was, and that is why I hate synthesis because that's what you do.
Javik, and the Leviathans would NEVER be friends with the Reapers and yet in Synthesis they don't take action. They are not themselfs anymore, and you know that.

Legion was not afraid to use something simply because of its origins and he was willing to die to get that advantage to all his kind.  EDI dissaproves of what the Reapers do, not simply for existing, as do I.

What you say is not fact.  Synthesis does not change the mind.  It has never been proven so, and it does not have to in order achieve its goals.

We don't know what Javik and the Leviathans do in synthesis.  Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. 

Declarative statements are not an argument, child.

[Reorte]

Lord Aesir wrote...
]The biological continuity is irrelevant.

If you're going to use the word "species" it is not because the definition of the word is entirely to do with the biology. All the stuff that would be lost, as completely tragic as that would be, is nothing to do with the definition of species.

Besides, I'm not certain anyone has besides the geth has sufficient understanding of geth code to reconstruct it exactly.

The quarians could presuambly rebuild them as they were when they rebelled. They probably wouldn't be able to rebuild them as they were at the end (or even just before the Reaper upgrades).

[Iconoclaste]

masster blaster wrote...

Lord as was Saren's right. To save him, and the galaxy.

TIM to save humanity.

All the people that were Indoctrinated said they did this to protect the galaxy, and their races, yet we know they were infulenced to say it.

And in the end most of them killed themselfs because they were wrong. Yet your are doing the same thing they were doing. You brush Saren aside like he didn't want Synthesis, but he did.

In fact, this is like trying to separate innocent from guilty : usually, just looking skin deep they will all say "I'm innocent!", so this will not be the way to proceed. May TIM or Saren wish or "fake" to wish for the good of humanity, only the outcomes could establish it true or false.

Try to imagine the worst man to exist : should we dispatch him because of what he has done up to now?

Until his last hour has come, no one can tell if his whole existence will have been in vain. An incommensurable sacrifice can be performed by the ultimate moron, and this could save all. Who are we to judge and condemn?

This "TIM and Saren" comparison is unrelated to what the Crucible may or may not do.

[masster blaster]

You see and that is why I hate synthesis. You think you know that what you got is for real, if the day were to come that you were wrong, I want to to think about this child, and beg for your forgivness, and say I am sorry. Also hey at least I don't FoRCE people to get along with the Reapers. You say I foreced the Geth, and EDI to die, Well I say your forced Everyone to get along with the Reapers, and if you say well they choosed to, well The Geht, and EDI choosed to fight the Reapers at ALL const.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

masster blaster wrote...

I have lord. And you made your choice to side with them. You wanted the Reapers to live because of EDI, and the Geth.

Did you ever think about Arrival. Either way weather you are Paragon, or not in the end 300,000 Batarians die. That's on Shepard. That's genocied, even though Paragon Shepard tried to stop it, it didn't work.

I didn't do Arrival. Hackett sent the 103rd Marines in to do that. I told Hackett I was busy.

[Heimdall]

masster blaster wrote...

Lord as was Saren's right. To save him, and the galaxy.

TIM to save humanity.

All the people that were Indoctrinated said they did this to protect the galaxy, and their races, yet we know they were infulenced to say it.

And in the end most of them killed themselfs because they were wrong. Yet your are doing the same thing they were doing. You brush Saren aside like he didn't want Synthesis, but he did.

Legion was not.  He did what he did to save his people.  Are you saying he was indoctrinated?  No, Legion undestood that Reaper advancement was not without merit.  Thanix cannon?  Reaper tech based.  Once the Reaper AI upgrades came coupled with Reaper control.  Legion de-coupled them.  How can you not see this parallel?  It stares you in the face.

Once control was linked to the Reapers through TIM.  It has been de-coupled.  Once Saren argued for a false synthesis that bears no resemblance to the one presented besides the sale's pitch.  It has been de-coupled.

And yes, Legion died, the price of ascension on our own terms instead of the Reapers. 

[Obadiah]

Thread's getting a lil personal isn't it.

[Heimdall]

Reorte wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...
]The biological continuity is irrelevant.

If you're going to use the word "species" it is not because the definition of the word is entirely to do with the biology. All the stuff that would be lost, as completely tragic as that would be, is nothing to do with the definition of species.

Besides, I'm not certain anyone has besides the geth has sufficient understanding of geth code to reconstruct it exactly.

The quarians could presuambly rebuild them as they were when they rebelled. They probably wouldn't be able to rebuild them as they were at the end (or even just before the Reaper upgrades).

That's what I mean.  The geth as they were are lost for good

[wantedman dan]

Obadiah wrote...

Thread's getting a lil personal isn't it.

I have no problem offending the sensibilities of internet tough-guys.

[Heimdall]

Obadiah wrote...

Thread's getting a lil personal isn't it.

Masster takes this matter seriously

[Iconoclaste]

masster blaster wrote...

You see and that is why I hate synthesis. You think you know that what you got is for real, if the day were to come that you were wrong, I want to to think about this child, and beg for your forgivness, and say I am sorry. Also hey at least I don't FoRCE people to get along with the Reapers. You say I foreced the Geth, and EDI to die, Well I say your forced Everyone to get along with the Reapers, and if you say well they choosed to, well The Geht, and EDI choosed to fight the Reapers at ALL const.

Enemies can be forgiven. The heretic Geth can be forgiven, why not the Reapers? In present times, when war is over, it's over, and everyone's happy. Usually. Why not the same in the future?

[Heimdall]

masster blaster wrote...

You see and that is why I hate synthesis. You think you know that what you got is for real, if the day were to come that you were wrong, I want to to think about this child, and beg for your forgivness, and say I am sorry. Also hey at least I don't FoRCE people to get along with the Reapers. You say I foreced the Geth, and EDI to die, Well I say your forced Everyone to get along with the Reapers, and if you say well they choosed to, well The Geht, and EDI choosed to fight the Reapers at ALL const.

Wow, I'm impressed you managed to spell at all in this outpouring of impotent rage

If the day comes that I am proven wrong, I will be wrong and you will still be a silly child with a juvenile revenge fixation.  I rather doubt it though.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 09 octobre 2012 - 01:29 .

[HiddenInWar]

Yate wrote...

Define a soul then get back to me.

I know I'm really really late to answering your query, but to me, a soul is a collective manifestation of your consciousness. But the definition is up to anyone really 

[Kildin_of_the_Volus]

To the OP:

You are wrong, and you make numerous false assertions.

That is all.

[drayfish]

BatmanTurian wrote...

All war is inhumane and all life is shades of grey. Welcome to reality.

BatmanTurian wrote...

Well.... yes, you can be emo about it or realize the positives, that you saved billions or trillions of people and the countless others who are not yet born, and that you have the gratitude of all of those people.

I have rarely seen such ugly semantic gymnastics as I am seeing in some of the posts on this thread...

'Well we didn't build the Crucible, we only used it...' (even though there were other options available)

'Hey, the Geth were just collateral damage, like leaving a dog behind on a car ride, or losing someone in a hurricane...' (except that you did not stir the hurricane into being, and did not knowingly target the man and every other member of his race for destruction)

'It's like a nuke going off in a country, and you don't know what races are in there...' (except that you know precisely who is targeted here, and it is in no way random: it is a race of beings, and you have other options)

'And, you know, the Geth weren't really, like alive anyway, they're like i-Pods...' (except for all those times they revealed themselves to be autonomous, self-aware beings, and themselves stated that they were alive ...unlike your i-Pod)

'And they brought it on themselves by uploading Reaper code - I mean, what were they thinking?' (because they clearly asked to be massacred by seeking individuality, and trying to be more human)

'And what if the Geth aren't dead anyway...' (even though it is clearly stated they are, we do not see them again after the blast, and, oh yeah, you are apparently happy enough to believe everything else that the Catalyst says)

'Hey, it's all just fiction anyway; they're just pixels and game code...' (so then why does it matter to you what their deaths are called?)

I find this all extraordinarily shocking, and frankly rather cowardly - particularly repeatedly calling anyone who wants to show the dead the respect they deserve by acknowledging their slaughter appropriately an 'emo'. ...I mean, seriously.

Genocide is part of the price of Destroy. You may not want to do it; you may be disgusted by it; but it is the fee you have to pay to get this ending. Just like people who pick Synthesis have to be aware that they are mutating people against their will (presumably for a greater good); just like the people who pick Control have to accept the arrogance of Shepard thinking she can do what no other character ever before has been able to do.  People who picked Destroy have to accept that genocide is part of the bargain.  Because it is.

It's genocide.

Your issue is with Bioware - not the English language.

You weighed up the value of certain forms of life and picked one race over another. You had other options but you picked genocide. And hiding behind excuses only belittles the price that you were meant to be paying for your 'bittersweet' ending.

Again: your issue is with Bioware and the farcical philosophical 'debate' they chose to ham-fistedly Frankenstein's monster into their narrative.

They are the ones who made Shepard a war-criminal for the 'greater good'.