Jamie9 wrote...
Subject M wrote...
I dont think anyone will object overly much to someone answering a clear and present genocidal threat with equal force in defensive response - if there is no option to deconstruct the threat in any other way.
But even then it's an extremely regrettable outcome - just look at Shiala's reaction to the Thorian's demise. She's thankful to be freed from it's control, but at the same time mourns the loss of a unique species.
Modifié par Allison_Lightning, 08 octobre 2012 - 02:51 .
If your weapon wiped out the entire ethnicity worldwide as a side effect it still would be genocide. That ethnicity is still dead no matter what scenario you paint. You activated the weapon fully knowing the effect it would have, it's still deliberate.Aaleel wrote...
Greylycantrope wrote...
It's collateral genocide actually, you still hit the switch that killed them knowing exactly that would happend when you hit it. What you intended when you built the crucible is irrelevent, you shot that tube with full knowlegde of what would happen to the Geth as a result of you shooting the tube.
No it's not.
Say aliens attacked the Earth tomorrow and were centralized in one place. Then say the people of the world made a weapon that would kill them but it had a chance to wipe out whatever area it was in.
If you use it you did not commit genocide on Germans, French, Americans or the citizens of whatever country you happened to deploy it in. You made a sacrifice to ensure the continuity of the human race, or organics in the case of ME.
To compare it to genocide is absurd and ridiculous. Genocide your one and only purpose and desire is to kill the group of people you kill, and you have no other reason in doing what you're doing than to kill that group of people.
Not nearly the same thing. It's not genocide.
Modifié par Greylycantrope, 08 octobre 2012 - 02:54 .
jackkel dragon wrote...
AresKeith wrote...
Subject M wrote...
It was genocide because it was a deliberate action from Shepard to wipe out ALL synthetics to clear the galaxy from the Reapers. Even wiping out the Reapers alone would qualify as genocide if the term is extended to incorporate other sapient beings than humans.
I just wondered if the writers over at Bioware is sending us some kind of message here, that genocides sometimes is needed? It kinda is a possible moral of the story.
Well the Reapers are responsible for billions of years of Genocide, so thats kinda of Karma for them
Justify it however you'd like, genociding a group for genocide is still, by definition, genocide.
Huh. Thinking of it that way, it's becoming hard for me to sympathize with some characters in the ME universe. Both sides are waging genocidal war, it's just that one's more effective at it.
AresKeith wrote...
I know its still Genocide and its wrong for the Geth and EDI, but the Reapers themselves get no sympathy for what they've done. That's why I have a problem with Destroy.
Sometime you have to focus on who you can save. Not who you will lose.AresKeith wrote...
jackkel dragon wrote...
AresKeith wrote...
Subject M wrote...
It was genocide because it was a deliberate action from Shepard to wipe out ALL synthetics to clear the galaxy from the Reapers. Even wiping out the Reapers alone would qualify as genocide if the term is extended to incorporate other sapient beings than humans.
I just wondered if the writers over at Bioware is sending us some kind of message here, that genocides sometimes is needed? It kinda is a possible moral of the story.
Well the Reapers are responsible for billions of years of Genocide, so thats kinda of Karma for them
Justify it however you'd like, genociding a group for genocide is still, by definition, genocide.
Huh. Thinking of it that way, it's becoming hard for me to sympathize with some characters in the ME universe. Both sides are waging genocidal war, it's just that one's more effective at it.
I know its still Genocide and its wrong for the Geth and EDI, but the Reapers themselves get no sympathy for what they've done. That's why I have a problem with Destroy.
We do no what the state the reaper are in...They are machines doing what they are programed to do.Jamie9 wrote...
AresKeith wrote...
I know its still Genocide and its wrong for the Geth and EDI, but the Reapers themselves get no sympathy for what they've done. That's why I have a problem with Destroy.
We actually don't know what state the Reapers are in. If it's anything like Grayson's indoctrination, I most definitely can sympathise with the Reapers.
Jamie9 wrote...
AresKeith wrote...
I know its still Genocide and its wrong for the Geth and EDI, but the Reapers themselves get no sympathy for what they've done. That's why I have a problem with Destroy.
We actually don't know what state the Reapers are in. If it's anything like Grayson's indoctrination, I most definitely can sympathise with the Reapers.
But does it make it wrong to use that weapon if not using it means every being and race will die if you don't?Greylycantrope wrote...
If your weapon wiped out the entire ethnicity worldwide as a side effect it still would be genocide. That ethnicity is still dead no matter what scenario you paint. You activated the weapon fully knowing the effect it would have, it's still deliberate.Aaleel wrote...
Greylycantrope wrote...
It's collateral genocide actually, you still hit the switch that killed them knowing exactly that would happend when you hit it. What you intended when you built the crucible is irrelevent, you shot that tube with full knowlegde of what would happen to the Geth as a result of you shooting the tube.
No it's not.
Say aliens attacked the Earth tomorrow and were centralized in one place. Then say the people of the world made a weapon that would kill them but it had a chance to wipe out whatever area it was in.
If you use it you did not commit genocide on Germans, French, Americans or the citizens of whatever country you happened to deploy it in. You made a sacrifice to ensure the continuity of the human race, or organics in the case of ME.
To compare it to genocide is absurd and ridiculous. Genocide your one and only purpose and desire is to kill the group of people you kill, and you have no other reason in doing what you're doing than to kill that group of people.
Not nearly the same thing. It's not genocide.
Jade8aby88 wrote...
AlanC9 wrote...
Jade8aby88 wrote...
Yes..
How know that...... you?
Jace, dear, I didn't say I knew anything. I was asking how anyone else does, which you didn't answer. Did God Himself tell you? He doesn't talk to me much, probably because I've never seen much reason to believe in Him.
I've had no sleep in 24 hours and still I don't frick up like this...
Modifié par AlanC9, 08 octobre 2012 - 03:03 .
But after what is said by the leviathen we do know what's going on with the reapers. And the leviathen say they are machines doing what they are program to do.AresKeith wrote...
Jamie9 wrote...
AresKeith wrote...
I know its still Genocide and its wrong for the Geth and EDI, but the Reapers themselves get no sympathy for what they've done. That's why I have a problem with Destroy.
We actually don't know what state the Reapers are in. If it's anything like Grayson's indoctrination, I most definitely can sympathise with the Reapers.
After Sovereign, Harbinger, and that annoying Starchild nope I don't trust any of those monsters. And the fact that Mac tried to make them the misunderstood good guys at the end makes it worse
But your Shepard also had a way to do it with only the sacrifice of his/her humanity.Allison_Lightning wrote...
Countless cycles have lost every single race in the war against the Reapers. Each cycle has been trying and over millions of years, that is so many races. There will be new races in the future, both organic and synthetic.
They deserve to exist in their own unique manner and not to fear the Reapers culling them. At the end of the day sacrifice is pounded into you time and again. To get a pretty 'all races survive' you rip away the one surefire way to get rid of the Reapers once and for all.
If my Shepard's price for victory was the destruction of the world beneath her- Earth and her race, she would have done that for the galaxy. Those who existed, those who do and those yet to come.
AlanC9 wrote...
Jade8aby88 wrote...
AlanC9 wrote...
Jade8aby88 wrote...
Yes..
How know that...... you?
Jace, dear, I didn't say I knew anything. I was asking how anyone else does, which you didn't answer. Did God Himself tell you? He doesn't talk to me much, probably because I've never seen much reason to believe in Him.
I've had no sleep in 24 hours and still I don't frick up like this...
I'm awfully confused. How is "yes" supposed to be an answer to "you know that.... how"? You know that because yes?
That's a matter of opinion, I would say it's wrong but not everyone would see it that way. You are still commiting genocide, that part is not up for debate, wether it's justifiable is another matter.dreman9999 wrote...
But does it make it wrong to use that weapon if not using it means every being and race will die if you don't?Greylycantrope wrote...
If your weapon wiped out the entire ethnicity worldwide as a side effect it still would be genocide. That ethnicity is still dead no matter what scenario you paint. You activated the weapon fully knowing the effect it would have, it's still deliberate.Aaleel wrote...
Greylycantrope wrote...
It's collateral genocide actually, you still hit the switch that killed them knowing exactly that would happend when you hit it. What you intended when you built the crucible is irrelevent, you shot that tube with full knowlegde of what would happen to the Geth as a result of you shooting the tube.
No it's not.
Say aliens attacked the Earth tomorrow and were centralized in one place. Then say the people of the world made a weapon that would kill them but it had a chance to wipe out whatever area it was in.
If you use it you did not commit genocide on Germans, French, Americans or the citizens of whatever country you happened to deploy it in. You made a sacrifice to ensure the continuity of the human race, or organics in the case of ME.
To compare it to genocide is absurd and ridiculous. Genocide your one and only purpose and desire is to kill the group of people you kill, and you have no other reason in doing what you're doing than to kill that group of people.
Not nearly the same thing. It's not genocide.
Modifié par Greylycantrope, 08 octobre 2012 - 03:04 .
And what would happen if you took the offending programming away?dreman9999 wrote...
But after what is said by the leviathen we do know what's going on with the reapers. And the leviathen say they are machines doing what they are program to do.
Modifié par Jamie9, 08 octobre 2012 - 03:10 .
dreman9999 wrote...
But your Shepard also had a way to do it with only the sacrifice of his/her humanity.Allison_Lightning wrote...
Countless cycles have lost every single race in the war against the Reapers. Each cycle has been trying and over millions of years, that is so many races. There will be new races in the future, both organic and synthetic.
They deserve to exist in their own unique manner and not to fear the Reapers culling them. At the end of the day sacrifice is pounded into you time and again. To get a pretty 'all races survive' you rip away the one surefire way to get rid of the Reapers once and for all.
If my Shepard's price for victory was the destruction of the world beneath her- Earth and her race, she would have done that for the galaxy. Those who existed, those who do and those yet to come.
Allison_Lightning wrote...
That way the Reapers were still alive and still a potential threat. So, no, not okay.
Jamie9 wrote...
The Leviathans, the Krogan, the Geth and the Rachni are all identifiable threats...
It was actually in the Cerberus Daily News from ME2maia0407 wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
The ironic thing he is this is already possible in the ME u....
http://masseffect.wi...i/Virtual_Alien
Interesting. I learned something new. Was that in the books or comics?
Reaper are machines doing what they are programed to do. What ever threatthey many be is based on how the Shepard AI programs them. They are not going to attack anyone unless the shepard ai tells them to.Allison_Lightning wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
But your Shepard also had a way to do it with only the sacrifice of his/her humanity.Allison_Lightning wrote...
Countless cycles have lost every single race in the war against the Reapers. Each cycle has been trying and over millions of years, that is so many races. There will be new races in the future, both organic and synthetic.
They deserve to exist in their own unique manner and not to fear the Reapers culling them. At the end of the day sacrifice is pounded into you time and again. To get a pretty 'all races survive' you rip away the one surefire way to get rid of the Reapers once and for all.
If my Shepard's price for victory was the destruction of the world beneath her- Earth and her race, she would have done that for the galaxy. Those who existed, those who do and those yet to come.
That way the Reapers were still alive and still a potential threat. So, no, not okay.
ghost9191 wrote...
well if you side with the qurians then no, no it's not genocide. if not then it kinda sorta is . but to be fair it isn't the first time shep had to commit genocide to stop the reapers. Andddddd there is the small possibility that the geth don't get destroyed. no real evidence to say they do , only speculations
so it is and isn't genocide. in the end it is the sacrifice of millions to save trillions and end the war ., sad yes, mourn yes, but still a casualty of war. in war there are sacrifices ,
and also , it is the geths fault, they just needed to accept the reapers future rather then achieving it on their own terms , dumba*ses
The krogan will not be a theat as long a Wrex is in control and alive....That is not an absolute he will always live or stay in control.Allison_Lightning wrote...
Jamie9 wrote...
The Leviathans, the Krogan, the Geth and the Rachni are all identifiable threats...
Haven't played the first yet but okay. There are four Leviathans of which we can track, destoy their orbs,ect. Unless there's a whole hidden thousands or more (I'd cry unimagnative), we're good- they can't hide anymore and they're of depleted numbers.
The Krogan made a deal via Udnot Wrex in my game- so no, not a threat. And anyone who didn't cure the Genophage but tricked the race into fighting with Wreav, you probably just assured their extinction through depleted numbers. The Geth, still existing didn't want to destroy thier creators and the Rachni, if you saved the Queen are going to start a new peaceful race.
The Reapers were a vast fleet of destructive power, hellbent on their cycle. Like I said, cycles had died and sacrificed to destroy them and remove their threat forever. Whatever becomes of the galaxy is with the free will and freedom it hasn't seen in forever thanks to the cycles. I also believe we don't need M.A.D. to ensure a peaceful international community, because eventually someone will use a nuculear device and bring that about. However, at least a bomb or missile dosen't think 'I have to destroy organics with synthetics to protect organics from synthetics'
The geth would be killed by the crucible no matter what they did...It effects all tech.ghost9191 wrote...
and also , it is the geths fault, they just needed to accept the reapers future rather then achieving it on their own terms , dumba*ses
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