243 réponses à ce sujet

[Dhiro]

randomchasegurney wrote...

Why do we have threads like this? They only end in tears...

Seriously though, Its REPETITIVE.<_<

My issue with the DA2 system is because of the laziness it creates.

Fenris: Your a beautiful woman Hawke.
Hawke:... I'm a man.
Fenris: Wut?  




^Pretty much Da2 romances in a nutshell, please atleast have the dialogue be different. I hear it was done better in Me3 so let's have it like that...
I wouldn't know though....

Fenris never called my Hawke a woman. You may want to fill a bug report.

[HiddenInWar]

Zkyire wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

scootermcgaffin wrote...

A lot of words that really shouldn't be censored are censored. It's odd. Words that will be used in DA3 are censored on the board dedicated to the game. Makes no sense.

Dragon Age 3 is a mature rated game. You only have to be 13 to log onto the BioWare forums.

You can be any age and buy an M/18+ game.

ID checks are rarely if ever enforced.

Can I just say Zkyire, your profile picture is perfect?

[AlexWk31]

I actually liked the DA2's romances. I never romanced Anders but I liked that the writers gave him a backstory that involved "relations" with another man. I really hope they do something like that in DA3. The only problem I had with Zev was him talking about how much he loved this girl and all the women he's slept with. Fenris at least had Danarius!

[XCelfa]

Quicksilver26 wrote...

ok ok i have to say this once again personality PERSONALITY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SEXUALITY.
i'm a lesbian and i'm shy and quiet and i don't really like hanging out with people in real live
my step sister is lesbian is outgoing and loves to be around people
we are both gay and are personalities couldn't be more different if we tried

Thank you.

[HiddenInWar]

randomchasegurney wrote...

Why do we have threads like this? They only end in tears...

Seriously though, Its REPETITIVE.<_<

My issue with the DA2 system is because of the laziness it creates.

Fenris: Your a beautiful woman Hawke.
Hawke:... I'm a man.
Fenris: Wut?  




^Pretty much Da2 romances in a nutshell, please atleast have the dialogue be different. I hear it was done better in Me3 so let's have it like that...
I wouldn't know though....

 

All I was asking if there was any news on s/s. It wasn't my intention to create a multi-page thread, not that I'm complainging anyways  I enjoy talking about this. 

[DialupToaster]

Dhiro wrote...

randomchasegurney wrote...

Why do we have threads like this? They only end in tears...

Seriously though, Its REPETITIVE.<_<

My issue with the DA2 system is because of the laziness it creates.

Fenris: Your a beautiful woman Hawke.
Hawke:... I'm a man.
Fenris: Wut?  




^Pretty much Da2 romances in a nutshell, please atleast have the dialogue be different. I hear it was done better in Me3 so let's have it like that...
I wouldn't know though....

Fenris never called my Hawke a woman. You may want to fill a bug report.

I'm mocking the lack of change in dialogue, specifically the romance for some of the characters.

[HiddenInWar]

lxwkl21 wrote...

I actually liked the DA2's romances. I never romanced Anders but I liked that the writers gave him a backstory that involved "relations" with another man. I really hope they do something like that in DA3. The only problem I had with Zev was him talking about how much he loved this girl and all the women he's slept with. Fenris at least had Danarius!

 

Some of the dialouge is priceless 

[DialupToaster]

XCelfa wrote...

Quicksilver26 wrote...

Thank you.

Ok now I know you are specifically looking for threads that could potentially offend you so that you can start an argument about it. Wow, that is... Words can't describe this....

[Biotic Sage]

Quicksilver26 wrote...

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...
Homosexuality (if you want to talk about sexuality in black and
white terms like ****** and hetero) has always made up about 10% of the
population throughout history in pretty much every society.

And given that 10% is already quite generous, it would be completely unreasonable to expect to have even one homosexual companion. It is certainly fine to have homosexual companions in games now and then, but having at least one romanceable potentially lesbian and one romanceable potentially gay companion when there's about five romance-choices in total is ridiculous.

If a gay romance option fits a character, that's fine. If not, just leave it out. It would've been much better to make Anders a gay guy (and by that I mean exclusively gay) and Fenris exlusively heterosexual.

Realism is more important than pandering to a minority.

Ok where do i sart? Let's go with yes 10% of the REAL WORLD might gay but THEDAS is NOT THE REAL WORLD. Thedas is a say it with me now A FICTIONAL WORLD set in a fictional medieval times it DOES NOT have to reflect the way THIS  WORLD WORKS. We do not no how sexuality  is set up in THEDAS for all we know 10% of them are straight and the rest might by lgbt. My point is don't judge THEDAS by real world stuff cause it is NOT REAL ITS A DAMN FANTASY(oh and ps. sexuality has nothing to do with personality)

Sexuality has nothing to do with personality?  Where to even begin with this.  Sexuality is a huge aspect in terms of informing someone's personality.  I won't go into this too much, but take a basic human sexuality course and I think that will be sufficient to change your mind.

As to Thedas not being the real world: yes that is completely true.  However, the fantasy world of Thedas does not differ from any other fictional narrative.  In order to have a narrative, you need to have real human drama, regardless of whatever extra flourishes you want to throw on like "magic" or "elves" or "ogres."  The driving force in Thedas is real people.  Some can do magic, some are larger than life, but the appeal of fantasy is that we see real humanity operating under extra-real circumstances.  Sexual behavior is a part of human nature, and I don't see Bioware changing other aspects of human nature in Dragon Age so it wouldn't really make much sense to change the rules of sexuality, would it?  Like I said in my previous post regarding sexual behavior in Ancient Greece, society does inform sexuality to an extent, so there is definitely room for a slight to moderate increase of this approximate 10% or a slight to moderate decrease.  Since Thedas is much less sexist and much more sexually open than many societies in the real world, I could actually see a good portion of their population being bisexual or homosexual.  Only 10% being straight though would be quite a stretch though, very unlikely considering evolution and sexual reproduction.

[Biotic Sage]

AlexJK wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

[...] Sure there can be a bisexual character because in reality there are bisexual people, but that sexuality has to be a part of their character (Leliana and Zevran). Just like a character's heterosexuality has to be a part of their character (see Morrigan and Alistair). If a character is homosexual, that has to be a part of their character (e.g. Cortez). Anyway, I think we all get my point here.

[...] These are facts, and people who are specifically anti-gay, or worse, anti-individual liberty in general, need to learn to deal with these facts. While I won't hold my breath for this to happen, I think companies like Bioware and brave film writers/directors have the ability to broaden perspectives and foster tolerance.

Why does it make any difference if a character is hetero-, ******-, bi-, or hero-sexual in terms of the possible dialogue options recorded and encoded within game files? During any given playthrough of the game, the characters are either given a sexuality where appropriate for story purposes (Cortez, ******; Isabela, bi), or they are simply "available for romancing". I don't think there's any kind of agenda on Bioware's part (nor should there be), beyond creating interesting character backstories where they are needed, and making as many options avaiable to as many players as possible the rest of the time.

To suggest that the presence of a homosexual relationship option is in some way diluted by the fact that the same audio files and cinematics can also play as a heterosexual relationship... doesn't really hold as an argument, does it?

The argument is the meta-knowledge of the NPCs characterization.  Of course you can say that meta-knowledge does not technically count when you are purely roleplaying, but the fact of the matter is we cannot completely separate ourselves (the player) from the fact that we are ourselves roleplaying an in game PC; we (the player) are the true agent and are operating with our own knowledge, even though we pretend to only operate with the PC's knowledge when roleplaying. 

So when I have knowledge that Isabela is an open-minded, sexually adventurous individual, nothing clashes when I romance her with a male character in one playthrough and a female character in another.  Nothing is at odds with her character here; it would be weird if she DIDN'T hit on you because her intense sex drive is a huge part of her character.  On the other hand, for a gay character to be truly represented, that character needs to have a personality that matches up with the fact that he/she has lived his/her life as a gay man/woman.  If someone only is attracted to and has sex with women, that is a unique life experience that is going to influence his/her personality and viewpoints.  Of course your sex and sexuality doesn't completely inform who you are as a person, but these things cannot be disregarded when talking about identity.  So when the writers write a character and ALL of the lines and behaviors are the same EXCEPT that character's sexual behavior, that comes off as strange to me when I do multiple playthroughs.  Not only that, it's kind of...I don't want to say "insulting" because I feel that's too strong of a word...but it's kind of..."demonstating an incomplete understanding of sexuality and identity" that I feel is doing a disservice to the LGBT community.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 09 octobre 2012 - 05:37 .

[Mike_Neel]

I didn't have any problems with the DA2 romances. To me a character in a game like the dragon age series shouldn't be defined by their sexuality or even their attraction the playable character, and besides Isabella that was true for all characters.

To me they each had separate aspects of who they were that defined who they were and Isabella was the only one defined by her sexuality, and that was on purpose and deliberate.

It didn't matter to me because up until either I initiated or okayed a romance that was never a part of who they were.

[scootermcgaffin]

Biotic Sage wrote...

Sexuality has nothing to do with personality?  Where to even begin with this.  Sexuality is a huge aspect in terms of informing someone's personality.  I won't go into this too much, but take a basic human sexuality course and I think that will be sufficient to change your mind.

Now it's my turn: thank you.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Biotic Sage wrote...
Sexuality has nothing to do with personality?  Where to even begin with this.  Sexuality is a huge aspect in terms of informing someone's personality.  I won't go into this too much, but take a basic human sexuality course and I think that will be sufficient to change your mind.

I think the poster you quoted probably meant that sexuality is not INDICATIVE of personality.  No one in their right mind would argue that sexuality isn't part of who you are.  It's more that you can't extrapolate the rest of someone's personality solely from their sexuality any more than you can from race or ethnicity or gender.  Those things all contribute to personality, but they don't define every element of it.

[HiddenInWar]

scootermcgaffin wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

Sexuality has nothing to do with personality?  Where to even begin with this.  Sexuality is a huge aspect in terms of informing someone's personality.  I won't go into this too much, but take a basic human sexuality course and I think that will be sufficient to change your mind.

Now it's my turn: thank you.

I second this.

[Biotic Sage]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...
Sexuality has nothing to do with personality?  Where to even begin with this.  Sexuality is a huge aspect in terms of informing someone's personality.  I won't go into this too much, but take a basic human sexuality course and I think that will be sufficient to change your mind.

I think the poster you quoted probably meant that sexuality is not INDICATIVE of personality.  No one in their right mind would argue that sexuality isn't part of who you are.  It's more that you can't extrapolate the rest of someone's personality solely from their sexuality any more than you can from race or ethnicity or gender.  Those things all contribute to personality, but they don't define every element of it.

Very true, hopefully that's what the poster meant.  Although I taught high school students who thought that race did not contribute to one's identity at all.  Actually it was close to one out of every two students that made this assertion.  Shows what the false "colorblindness" model leads to, completely decontextualizing race from history, like we were all just born into a vacuum in the modern age and nothing that happened 200 or even 50 years ago is relevant to the social paradigm of today.  I'm sure less people would make that assertion about sexuality and identity, but you never know.  I'm rarely surprised by anything.  Anything you can think of, somewhere out there, there is someone who believes it.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 09 octobre 2012 - 07:21 .

[Maria Caliban]

Quicksilver26 wrote...

ok ok i have to say this once again personality PERSONALITY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SEXUALITY.

You're wrong.

[Thrillian]

All I have to say about this is that I liked the way they did it with DA2. I personally have never played a S/S romance but I would not wish to deny anyone enjoying the same romanceable companion that I do based on sexuality.

As an example: I did not like that a man playing a male character could not enjoy the Alistair romance as I did. I felt it needlessly excluded them.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Biotic Sage wrote...
Anything you can think of, somewhere out there, there is someone who believes it.

This is very true.  Sad, but true.

"I am a four hundred foot tall purple platypus bear with pink horns and silver wings."

[Biotic Sage]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...
Anything you can think of, somewhere out there, there is someone who believes it.

This is very true.  Sad, but true.

"I am a four hundred foot tall purple platypus bear with pink horns and silver wings."

And you, my friend, have just started a religion.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 09 octobre 2012 - 07:59 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

Biotic Sage wrote...

And you, my friend, have just started a religion.

ALL HAIL THE PLATYPUS BEAR!  Free, 100% factual readings of platypus-osity!  For $50 more, a session to bring you spiritually closer to the great platypus bear!  (Prices for subsequent sessions and platypus-levels may increase.)

(Sadly, I can't take credit for the line itself, but I can have fun and try to make a little money off it )

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 09 octobre 2012 - 08:02 .

[Kidd]

Biotic Sage wrote...

Very true, hopefully that's what the poster meant.  Although I taught high school students who thought that race did not contribute to one's identity at all.  Actually it was close to one out of every two students that made this assertion.  Shows what the false "colorblindness" model leads to, completely decontextualizing race from history, like we were all just born into a vacuum in the modern age and nothing that happened 200 or even 50 years ago is relevant to the social paradigm of today.

You have to remember though, as with colour as with sexual orientation, that you cannot really apply what is seen in our society onto Thedas.

Using myself as an example, I never had any issues in any way with my bisexuality growing up. As such I never got any of the "growing pains" some people have told me about. It's only lately that I've come to realise (and please don't take this to mean I live solely on BSN =D) some people actually have a problem with it - some more or less even believe it doesn't exist. I will likely react differently when faced with this issue than somebody who had a dramatic coming out process. Yet I'm only comparing two individuals within the very same country in the same period of time. We have far more in common than differentiate us - and I'd have far less in common with somebody from Thedas.

While we've had LGBT identities being talked about openly just in the past few decades, Thedas is not in the same climate on the topic at all.

[Sable Rhapsody]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...
While we've had LGBT identities being talked about openly just in the past few decades, Thedas is not in the same climate on the topic at all.

No, but I don't think the lack LGBT political and social discussion in Thedas has anything to do with lore.  It probably has more to do with the writers wanting to include more romance options for anyone while offending as few people as possible.  You're always going to offend someone by talking about something like sexuality in your game; the fact that some folks flip their s*** at the mere possibility of a gay or lesbian romance is proof enough.  I think given how nasty the discussion can get IRL, they wanted to steer well clear from as much of that as possible.

[Kidd]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

No, but I don't think the lack LGBT political and social discussion in Thedas has anything to do with lore.  It probably has more to do with the writers wanting to include more romance options for anyone while offending as few people as possible.  You're always going to offend someone by talking about something like sexuality in your game; the fact that some folks flip their s*** at the mere possibility of a gay or lesbian romance is proof enough.  I think given how nasty the discussion can get IRL, they wanted to steer well clear from as much of that as possible.

So basically, it does have to do with lore since the Word of God dictates the lore. The motives behind something being written don't matter within the context of the setting itself. There's lots of mature topics in Dragon Age being discussed through fantastic means and using fictional constructs.

[Sable Rhapsody]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...
So basically, it does have to do with lore since the Word of God dictates the lore. The motives behind something being written don't matter within the context of the setting itself. There's lots of mature topics in Dragon Age being discussed through fantastic means and using fictional constructs.

OK, now I'm confused.  The writers dictate the lore, but their intentions have nothing to do with it?  

There's just not much there in terms of social or political context.  Same-sex relationships are less common than heterosexual relationships in Thedas, generally looked upon as an oddity but nothing inherently wrong.  That's all we get, and even that I believe was from a writer's post here on the forums.  It CAN be a strong statement against intolerance if you take that attitude and juxtapose it with our real-world situation, but that's all I'm getting.

Not trying to argue here, just trying to understand what you're getting at 

[AlexJK]

Biotic Sage wrote...
[...] for a gay character to be truly represented, that character needs to have a personality that matches up with the fact that he/she has lived his/her life as a gay man/woman.  If someone only is attracted to and has sex with women, that is a unique life experience that is going to influence his/her personality and viewpoints.  Of course your sex and sexuality doesn't completely inform who you are as a person, but these things cannot be disregarded when talking about identity.  So when the writers write a character and ALL of the lines and behaviors are the same EXCEPT that character's sexual behavior, that comes off as strange to me when I do multiple playthroughs.  Not only that, it's kind of...I don't want to say "insulting" because I feel that's too strong of a word...but it's kind of..."demonstating an incomplete understanding of sexuality and identity" that I feel is doing a disservice to the LGBT community.

I've been staring at this comment for a while now trying to explain what I feel is wrong with it.

Ultimately I think it comes down to this: you are, or seem to be, asserting that a character's personality, viewpoints and identity will/should be noticeably different depending on their sexual orientation. I just can't agree with that. I don't think it matters that the lines are the same for an MM/MF/FF relationship, because the lines are well written enough that it works either way round. Yes, a compromise is made in game development terms in order to save resources in recording two sets of lines, but it doesn't fundamentally bother me that the lines are the same. If your meta-knowledge of this fact renders the relationship "strange" I'm not sure what the writers can really do about that...

I don't think this shows an incomplete understanding of sexuality and identity, I think that the writers decided quite deliberately to remove human 21st century politics from the romances as much as possible, and make them about love and relationships in Thedas instead.

Modifié par AlexJK, 09 octobre 2012 - 01:14 .