239 réponses à ce sujet

[Melca36]

StElmo wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

John Epler wrote...

Saying 'I wasn't a fan of Merrill' is okay.

Saying 'if you romanced her you're probably a pedophile', or at least heavily implying that - not okay.

So let's not do it.

Oh but you see Mr. Epler, it'll never stop! Anyone that romances Merrill must be one. They can't possibly like her for her intelligence, or her wit that goes unnoticed, or for being a badass adorable. Nope, it's because we're pedophiles.

*Sigh* 

I can't even begin to fathom how many times I've seen posters say such things.

garrusfan19 wrote...

Anyone agree

Yeah... I disagree. Vehemently.

As someone still playing DA2 for the first time (act 2 atm), I wasn't aware so many people were making such absurd claims such as this.

Typical gamers, they'll get all upset if a character isn't a buxom, dirty, sex obsessed pirate - because "that is what all mature women must act like".

Meanwhile, half of them are playing dead or alive and think THAT is okay... because the boobs override the dubiously young character faces.... or they are buying into dubious, creepy "anime" culture because "oh thats okay because it is the culture - we can like that!"

Sometimes I hate the gaming community.

I said it before and I'll say it again, my first impression of Merrill was a 23 year old elf with her head in the clouds, with a layered and endearing personality type - who wasn't "helpless", simply uninformed and could also kick some major ass if she needed to.

**** shaming Isabela I see.

Typical. 

If you opened your mind you would see there is so much more to her. I suggest you read the comic as well. 

[ThisIsZad]

Merrill was cute and wonderful!!

What does pedophilia have to do with her...,
ARGHHHH so many atheist haters!!!

May the Dread Wolf bite you all! lol

Modifié par ThisIsZad, 08 octobre 2012 - 08:47 .

[StElmo]

Melca36 wrote...

StElmo wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

John Epler wrote...

Saying 'I wasn't a fan of Merrill' is okay.

Saying 'if you romanced her you're probably a pedophile', or at least heavily implying that - not okay.

So let's not do it.

Oh but you see Mr. Epler, it'll never stop! Anyone that romances Merrill must be one. They can't possibly like her for her intelligence, or her wit that goes unnoticed, or for being a badass adorable. Nope, it's because we're pedophiles.

*Sigh* 

I can't even begin to fathom how many times I've seen posters say such things.

garrusfan19 wrote...

Anyone agree

Yeah... I disagree. Vehemently.

As someone still playing DA2 for the first time (act 2 atm), I wasn't aware so many people were making such absurd claims such as this.

Typical gamers, they'll get all upset if a character isn't a buxom, dirty, sex obsessed pirate - because "that is what all mature women must act like".

Meanwhile, half of them are playing dead or alive and think THAT is okay... because the boobs override the dubiously young character faces.... or they are buying into dubious, creepy "anime" culture because "oh thats okay because it is the culture - we can like that!"

Sometimes I hate the gaming community.

I said it before and I'll say it again, my first impression of Merrill was a 23 year old elf with her head in the clouds, with a layered and endearing personality type - who wasn't "helpless", simply uninformed and could also kick some major ass if she needed to.

**** shaming Isabela I see.

Typical. 

If you opened your mind you would see there is so much more to her. I suggest you read the comic as well. 

Don't be absurd, I am not, **** shaming anyone. I know there is more to isabella, but that is not to say others see her that way.

My point is, it's funny how nobody who wants to look into the depth of a character hates merril but loves isabella?

Why? Because at face value, maybe shallow people are drawn to the apparent shallowness of isabella? Eh?

See:

StElmo wrote...

Fox In The Box wrote...


Is "dirty, sex obsessed pirate" really all you see in Isabela?

Still
playing the game, but no. However, if people can't see the depth in
Merrill, I imagine that is what they see in Isabella - given how shallow
they view the game characters.

Also, how dare you call me a **** shamer, I am shaming those who only see ANY of the characters at face value. Get your prioroties right.

Modifié par StElmo, 08 octobre 2012 - 08:52 .

[LobselVith8]

jennamarae wrote...

Had Marethari not intervened, Merrill may very well have ended up freeing the demon herself because she is that far gone when it comes to that mirror and thinks of nothing but restoring it in an effort to reclaim the lost history of her people.

Actually, Merrill tells an aggressive Hawke that she has no intention of releasing Audacity, who is sundered from the Fade and trapped in a totem by ancient, powerful magic. She also didn't free Audacity for several years, instead relying on information she extrapolated from the shard and the lore she studied about the Eluvian. She only turned to Audacity to learn blood magic, and even then she didn't let Audacity free from its prison.

jennamarae wrote...

When you first meet her she tells you that demons are just spirits and that it's not their fault they are what they are.

Merrill isn't Andrastian, so she doesn't believe that spirits are Children of the Maker, or that demons are spirits who turned their back on Him and embody different sins according to Andrastian lore; she is Dalish, and believes they are all spirits in the Beyond (the Dalish word for the Fade). She also acknowledges that all spirits are dangerous.

[Orian Tabris]

StElmo wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

StElmo wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

John Epler wrote...

Saying 'I wasn't a fan of Merrill' is okay.

Saying 'if you romanced her you're probably a pedophile', or at least heavily implying that - not okay.

So let's not do it.

Oh but you see Mr. Epler, it'll never stop! Anyone that romances Merrill must be one. They can't possibly like her for her intelligence, or her wit that goes unnoticed, or for being a badass adorable. Nope, it's because we're pedophiles.

*Sigh* 

I can't even begin to fathom how many times I've seen posters say such things.

garrusfan19 wrote...

Anyone agree

Yeah... I disagree. Vehemently.

As someone still playing DA2 for the first time (act 2 atm), I wasn't aware so many people were making such absurd claims such as this.

Typical gamers, they'll get all upset if a character isn't a buxom, dirty, sex obsessed pirate - because "that is what all mature women must act like".

Meanwhile, half of them are playing dead or alive and think THAT is okay... because the boobs override the dubiously young character faces.... or they are buying into dubious, creepy "anime" culture because "oh thats okay because it is the culture - we can like that!"

Sometimes I hate the gaming community.

I said it before and I'll say it again, my first impression of Merrill was a 23 year old elf with her head in the clouds, with a layered and endearing personality type - who wasn't "helpless", simply uninformed and could also kick some major ass if she needed to.

**** shaming Isabela I see.

Typical. 

If you opened your mind you would see there is so much more to her. I suggest you read the comic as well. 

Don't be absurd, I am not, **** shaming anyone. I know there is more to isabella, but that is not to say others see her that way.

My point is, it's funny how nobody who wants to look into the depth of a character hates merril but loves isabella?

Why? Because at face value, maybe shallow people are drawn to the apparent shallowness of isabella? Eh?

Oh, there are people who hate both Izzy and Merri. They can be found in various locations of the BSN, usually hiding in a corner rocking constantly saying "BioWare is ruined. BioWare is ruined."

[StElmo]

Orian Tabris wrote...

StElmo wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

StElmo wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

John Epler wrote...

Saying 'I wasn't a fan of Merrill' is okay.

Saying 'if you romanced her you're probably a pedophile', or at least heavily implying that - not okay.

So let's not do it.

Oh but you see Mr. Epler, it'll never stop! Anyone that romances Merrill must be one. They can't possibly like her for her intelligence, or her wit that goes unnoticed, or for being a badass adorable. Nope, it's because we're pedophiles.

*Sigh* 

I can't even begin to fathom how many times I've seen posters say such things.

garrusfan19 wrote...

Anyone agree

Yeah... I disagree. Vehemently.

As someone still playing DA2 for the first time (act 2 atm), I wasn't aware so many people were making such absurd claims such as this.

Typical gamers, they'll get all upset if a character isn't a buxom, dirty, sex obsessed pirate - because "that is what all mature women must act like".

Meanwhile, half of them are playing dead or alive and think THAT is okay... because the boobs override the dubiously young character faces.... or they are buying into dubious, creepy "anime" culture because "oh thats okay because it is the culture - we can like that!"

Sometimes I hate the gaming community.

I said it before and I'll say it again, my first impression of Merrill was a 23 year old elf with her head in the clouds, with a layered and endearing personality type - who wasn't "helpless", simply uninformed and could also kick some major ass if she needed to.

**** shaming Isabela I see.

Typical. 

If you opened your mind you would see there is so much more to her. I suggest you read the comic as well. 

Don't be absurd, I am not, **** shaming anyone. I know there is more to isabella, but that is not to say others see her that way.

My point is, it's funny how nobody who wants to look into the depth of a character hates merril but loves isabella?

Why? Because at face value, maybe shallow people are drawn to the apparent shallowness of isabella? Eh?

Oh, there are people who hate both Izzy and Merri. They can be found in various locations of the BSN, usually hiding in a corner rocking constantly saying "BioWare is ruined. BioWare is ruined."

): Well that too.

But people who love Isabella but hate Merrill/think she is a child etc., I can't help but think they are only able to see a characters face-value traits.

With isabella it is a sexy lady

With merrill it is a naive, oblivious elf.

Neither is true, but I imagine lots of people would gravitate towards the sexy lady first if all they were to do was judge characters based on face value.

If you actually paid attention to the depth of all the characters there would be an even split between all of them.

[jennamarae]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Actually, Merrill tells an aggressive Hawke that she has no intention of releasing Audacity, who is sundered from the Fade and trapped in a totem by ancient, powerful magic. She also didn't free Audacity for several years, instead relying on information she extrapolated from the shard and the lore she studied about the Eluvian. She only turned to Audacity to learn blood magic, and even then she didn't let Audacity free from its prison.

And what have two games taught us about demons and magic? Nothing is free; everything has a price when a demon is involved. She never tells Hawke, that I'm aware of, what she trades the demon for knowledge. What we know of demons doesn't show that they are benevolent creatures who will teach mages out of the goodness of their hearts. She hadn't set it free yet, but we don't know that she never would have if she were desperate enough to restore that mirror.

Merrill isn't Andrastian, so she doesn't believe that spirits are Children of the Maker, or that demons are spirits who turned their back on Him and embody different sins according to Andrastian lore; she is Dalish, and believes they are all spirits in the Beyond (the Dalish word for the Fade). She also acknowledges that all spirits are dangerous.

That doesn't really have anything to do with whether some spirits are benevolent while others are sneaky, conniving and evil. She may not have used the same terms due to not following the Chantry's teachings, but I highly doubt that Dalish mages are just taught to contact spirits willy nilly. Marethari warning her away from the mirror and preventing her from having further contact with the demon by releasing it herself is a pretty good indication that the Dalish are aware of demons and their dangers regardless of what name they call them by.

That Merrill would ignore the advice of someone many times her age because she thinks she can handle it regardless of the dangers is the very definition of being naive. Marathari kept the Dalish warden alive long enough to join the wardens and go through the joining despite the nature of the taint, I'm pretty sure she knows her way around magic and spirits much better than Merrill, and even she tells Merrill that she's being foolish.

[mousestalker]

I liked both Isabela and Merrill. The only companion I really didn't much care for was Sebastian and that was due to his lack of interaction for a good part of the game. I suspect I would have liked him better if given a broader opportunity to get to know him.

Just because you like cucumbers doesn't mean you also don't like eggplant. Both can be tasty.

[StElmo]

tgail73 wrote...

StElmo wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

**** shaming Isabela I see.

Typical. 

If you opened your mind you would see there is so much more to her. I suggest you read the comic as well. 

Also, how dare you call me a **** shamer, I am shaming those who only see ANY of the characters at face value. Get your prioroties right.

Wow, you really don't like people disagreeing with your opinion.

No I really don't like people trying to label me as a misogynist or a **** shamer or any other type of prejorative term, I am a very progressive equal rights type of person and it makes me sad when people start assuming the wrong things.

I don't mind if people don't like merrill, but if their opinion is based on a very narrow view of her character, then that is a plain lack of information. Not my fault pointing it out upsets other people for being wrong about their initial observations and refuse to delve any deeper.

Also, I don't have a problem with any of the DA2 characters - even if I don't like Anders or Fenris, why should I whine about it on BSN?

Modifié par StElmo, 08 octobre 2012 - 09:15 .

[Sleepingviking]

Aw, but i actually liked Merril. And she was the only proper female LI in DA:2.

[LobselVith8]

jennamarae wrote...

Nothing is free; everything has a price when a demon is involved.

Except for The Warden coercing the Desire Demon to leave Connor alone, and giving him something in exchange for sparing her life. As well as Hawke using the Profane Abomination and the Sloth Demon to obtain information about the Deep Roads and Feynriel's situation respectively, and then destroying them after he obtains the information without it costing him anything. And, as you might recall, Audacity is sundered from the Fade and trapped in a totem; it isn't in a position to force Merrill to do anything.

jennamarae wrote...

That doesn't really have anything to do with whether some spirits are benevolent while others are sneaky.

Merrill believes all spirits are dangerous, because there's no such thing as a good spirit. The fact that you think the Dalish adhere to the Andrastian perception of Spirits and Demon confounds me as well; they clearly don't.

Furthermore, Merrill successfully cleanses the shard of the taint, which is why she isn't corrupted like the elves in the Elven Ruins were by the remaining shards of the Eluvian. The fact that Keeper Marethari jumped from one baseless conclusion to another doesn't really make me think that she was correct about the Eluvian, especially when Merrill actually conducted thorough research about the topic.

jennamarae wrote...

That Merrill would ignore the advice of someone many times her age because she thinks she can handle it regardless of the dangers is the very definition of being naive.

You mean the Keeper who poisoned the entire clan against Merrill (which lead to the death of Pol), who warned no one that she was letting a demon loose, allowed the clan to stay close by while she forced Merrill and Hawke to kill her, and took no precautions to make certain that no one would be endangered by her actions? Yeah, you'll have to excuse me if her age doesn't automatically qualify her as someone I should trust, especially after doing one asinine move after another.

[Fiacre]

LobselVith8 wrote...

jennamarae wrote...

That Merrill would ignore the advice of someone many times her age because she thinks she can handle it regardless of the dangers is the very definition of being naive.

You mean the Keeper who poisoned the entire clan against Merrill (which lead to the death of Pol), who warned no one that she was letting a demon loose, allowed the clan to stay close by while she forced Merrill and Hawke to kill her, and took no precautions to make certain that no one would be endangered by her actions? Yeah, you'll have to excuse me if her age doesn't automatically qualify her as someone I should trust, especially after doing one asinine move after another.

Apart from this, I also find it odd that that that would qualify as naive rather than arrogant. I think, at times, Merrill can be arrogant in her dealings with spirits, not naive, but I certainly don't think she's incompetent -- and she's neither naive nor arrogant enough to go and face Audacity on her own and instead asks for Hawke to come with her and help.


Personally, I never saw her as all that childlike and she definitely knows what sex is. Her Act 2 romance scene is actually my favourite one.

[Han Shot First]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Agreed.

She looked like a 12 year old boy and acted like one as well. The 'achievement' for her romance should have been called The Sandusky.



Anyone who romanced Merrill is bad and should feel bad.

I don't see why you think Merrill is a child. Is it because she refuses to be passive about the plight of her people? Is it because she studied the lore on the Eluvian and extrapolated information from the shard? Is it because she thought an invaluable piece of technology was worth preserving, when the entire premise of the Dalish is to preserve elven culture, history, and knowledge?

Merrill was an adult, and an ambitious person who wanted to overturn centuries of a dwindling culture to irrevocably change the People for the better.

It is because she acts so ridiculously naive throughout the entire game that she comes across as childlike. That she was given a character design that makes her look like a 12 year old just made it worse.

Considering both her appearance and her personality, a romance with her is disturbing.

She is easily the worst LI Bioware ever created in any of its games.

[StElmo]

tgail73 wrote...

StElmo wrote...

No I really don't like people trying to label me as a misogynist or a **** shamer or any other type of prejorative term, I am a very progressive equal rights type of person and it makes me sad when people start assuming the wrong things.

I don't mind if people don't like merrill, but if their opinion is based on a very narrow view of her character, then that is a plain lack of information. Not my fault pointing it out upsets other people for being wrong about their initial observations and refuse to delve any deeper.

Also, I don't have a problem with any of the DA2 characters - even if I don't like Anders or Fenris, why should I whine about it on BSN?

They aren't whining,

I disagree. They are whining - you are allowed to choose your companions in DA no one is getting shoehorned into a using a character they don't like so I don't think they have any right to complain. As you said, people have different opinions on the characters and provided no character takes precedent, I honestly don't see the problem nor the need to complain.

Modifié par StElmo, 08 octobre 2012 - 09:38 .

[Fiacre]

Han Shot First wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Agreed.

She looked like a 12 year old boy and acted like one as well. The 'achievement' for her romance should have been called The Sandusky.



Anyone who romanced Merrill is bad and should feel bad.

I don't see why you think Merrill is a child. Is it because she refuses to be passive about the plight of her people? Is it because she studied the lore on the Eluvian and extrapolated information from the shard? Is it because she thought an invaluable piece of technology was worth preserving, when the entire premise of the Dalish is to preserve elven culture, history, and knowledge?

Merrill was an adult, and an ambitious person who wanted to overturn centuries of a dwindling culture to irrevocably change the People for the better.

It is because she acts so ridiculously naive throughout the entire game that she comes across as childlike. That she was given a character design that makes her look like a 12 year old just made it worse.

Considering both her appearance and her personality, a romance with her is disturbing.

She is easily the worst LI Bioware ever created in any of its games.

She isn't "ridiculously naive" -- sure, she has her head in the clouds sometimes, but a lot of her "naive" comments see, to be dry wit to me. Her dealings with demons aren't naive either -- if anything she's arrogant.

She also doesn't look like twelve. The only thing that makes her somewhat young looking are the big eyes, and that's a new elf trait for the redesign, and even then she doesn't look nowhere near twelve.

And that she's the worst LI... is merely your opinion. I certainly won't feel bad for romancing an intelligent, adult woman who happens to like making outlandish comments and has big eyes. She's certainly more mature than a lot of people I know...

[StElmo]

Han Shot First wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Agreed.

She looked like a 12 year old boy and acted like one as well. The 'achievement' for her romance should have been called The Sandusky.



Anyone who romanced Merrill is bad and should feel bad.

I don't see why you think Merrill is a child. Is it because she refuses to be passive about the plight of her people? Is it because she studied the lore on the Eluvian and extrapolated information from the shard? Is it because she thought an invaluable piece of technology was worth preserving, when the entire premise of the Dalish is to preserve elven culture, history, and knowledge?

Merrill was an adult, and an ambitious person who wanted to overturn centuries of a dwindling culture to irrevocably change the People for the better.

It is because she acts so ridiculously naive throughout the entire game that she comes across as childlike. That she was given a character design that makes her look like a 12 year old just made it worse.

Considering both her appearance and her personality, a romance with her is disturbing.

She is easily the worst LI Bioware ever created in any of its games.

Thats wierd, I thought she was about 23 when I met her in DA2.

The VO is about 34 years old.

She has adult face tatoos (apparently only adults have tats)

She doesn't get any older over the years of time of the game, essentially implying she is already mature when you meet here and that is simply her personality traits.

I haven't finished DA2 yet, but people tell me Hawke doesn't trick her into the sex, or anything seedy like that.

Dialogue in game actually shows she is a more layered and mature character than at face value.

BW confirmed she is an adult based on her being the same age as the warden in DA:O

...

Oh wait you're trolling? My mistake, please continue... all people that like merrill are DEFINITELY pedos, or are going to become pedos. I mean, nobody could possibly have reasoned she was an adult from their own assessment could they?

Modifié par StElmo, 08 octobre 2012 - 09:44 .

[LobselVith8]

Han Shot First wrote...

It is because she acts so ridiculously naive throughout the entire game that she comes across as childlike.

Like when she constructed an Eluvian based on her study of the lore and information she extrapolated from the shard? Her desire to reverse centuries of poverty and turmoil for elves across the continent? Or when she could tell of a templar recruit was possessed through her knowledge of magic? Or when she explained how she doesn't share Anders' religious views when it comes to Spirits and Demons? Perhaps it's her dry humor?

[General User]

StElmo wrote...

I disagree. They are whining - you are allowed to choose your companions in DA no one is getting shoehorned into a using a character they don't like so I don't think they have any right to complain. As you said, people have different opinions on the characters and provided no character takes precedent, I honestly don't see the problem nor the need to complain.

I remember that with Isabela and Sebastian you can just never talk to them, and with Fenris you can actually tell him to get lost.  How do you get rid of Merrill?

[Han Shot First]

To be clear, I know Merrill is an adult.

However she neither looks or acts like one. She looks and acts childlike. So for me, that makes the whole concept of romancing her a little disgusting. It would feel like taking advantage of someone with a developmental disorder.

[StElmo]

General User wrote...

StElmo wrote...

I disagree. They are whining - you are allowed to choose your companions in DA no one is getting shoehorned into a using a character they don't like so I don't think they have any right to complain. As you said, people have different opinions on the characters and provided no character takes precedent, I honestly don't see the problem nor the need to complain.

I remember that with Isabela and Sebastian you can just never talk to them, and with Fenris you can actually tell him to get lost.  How do you get rid of Merrill?

No idea, but you don't have to use her in your squad, so get over it.

[Han Shot First]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

She is easily the worst LI Bioware ever created in any of its games.

Wrong.

I concede defeat.

How could I have forgotten about Snookie Allers?!

Ok, Merrill is the second worst LI Bioware ever created.

[Sleepingviking]

I find Snookie Allers to be worst, followed by Isabella and then Wrex.

I disagree with your assertment, but then again i have a sweetspot for sweet girls.