169 réponses à ce sujet

[redBadger14]

Someone should make a thread keeping a running tally of Volus threads made in total.

Whiner tears are delicious btw

[JaimasOfRaxis]

OneTrueShot wrote...

Not like I didn't give you guys months to prepare for the butthurt, but did you all believe me? Nooooooo...Everyone shun the prophet that had already predicted several occurences in MP.

Maybe next time people will re-think themselves before failing to sacrifice strawberry milk and cookies in OTS's honor. Also, remember this?



...I hope one of you picks up that phone, because OTS FRICKIN' CALLED IT.

[DESTRAUDO]

Rifneno wrote...

DamonD7 wrote...

Hey, when hell is coming to the entire universe, everyone's gotta get out there with a gun

I, for one, will support our new volus overlords if they are indeed going to be in the MP. All-Volus teams in particular would be awesome.

Naturally they'd fight back when attacked.  The objection isn't that they would just sit back and die, it's that they're not capable of doing the kinds of missions we do in MP.  We play the best of the best.  Krogan battlemasters, asari justicars, salarian STG, N7s, we've got the biggest badasses in the galaxy and our missions are designed around giving them a major challenge.  MP missions require more than just being able to pull a trigger.

darthnick427 wrote...

I can smell their *Ffssssssttt* GREATNESS!

I can smell their greatness alright.  It smells like shortly after Taco Bell night on Tuchanka.

You say that we play the best of the best, and that no volus could meet that expectation and thus, cannot be part of the MP experience. 

And yet how do the vorcha fit with this best of the best analogy. 

'Many vorcha are employed as cannon-fodder troops in gangs such as the Blood Pack, where their inexperience further shortens their brief lifespans.'

Much like the volus, there is no mention of them meeting any of the requirements that would set them out as suitable for special operations. Quite the contrary. Being able to follow a simple retreat command is treated like it is a pretty big deal. So, so far aw we know, the best of the best they are not.

' 'The Void Devils, a fighter group with vorcha pilots trained by humans and turians, fought hard during the battle for Heshtok and maintained the discipline to retreat, a notable accomplishment.''

Of course, they are not a homogenous race. They have exceptional individuals and those individuals earned the chance to be part of the teams in multiplayer. I see no reason to deny exceptional volus the same oppertunity. 


On the subject of science in mass effect. You are right, but so is the person you criticized and implied had no knowledge of science. Science in mass effect is a veneer of accuracy glued to a ball of nonsense, which you  basically admit to.  That ball is element zero, and rather than just being the basis of ftl , it is the basis of pretty much every tech in mass effect, meaning everything from the weapons to shields to biotics and even artificial gravity is hokum. And that is ok because it is hokum without which the game would not exist. There are exceptions yes, like the quantum entanglement communicator, but they are exceptions to the rule. 

Don't get me wrong. I love the effort bioware went to with the scientific shell. By encasing element zero in a shell of 95 percent solid science they allow you to very happily suspend disbelief, but it does not change the fact that under every major piece of tech in mass effect are the words 'space magic'. And just as every other sci fi franchise uses their space magic to get around current science problems ( heisenberg compensators come to mind) mass effect uses element zero to get around theirs. As such, when that guy said that science did not matter in mass effect, they were dead right, because there is nothing that the devs would ever want to do in the universe, that they would choose not to do because of current science.   

As such, when i am told the volus cannot fight because of sayyyy exploding suits, i can tell you, WITH ABSOLUTE CONFIDENCE  that there is no science problem that you can throw at the devs, that they cannot solve by applying the following formula.

X generates a mass effect field, which is manipulated by Y , using material Z  = problem solved. 



On a side note. While i can understand that you have a lot of passion for mass effect, and that is no bad thing, your passion is sliding you into bouts of insulting people, which is a bad thing, because if you push too far with it someone will in a fit of spite report the various posts where you insult them. My understanding is someone was already banned in the last few days over their posts in volus threads. One is too many. Especially over something so meaningless.  

 

 

Modifié par DESTRAUDO, 08 octobre 2012 - 03:31 .

[mrcanada]

They're likely fakes.

[UpirNoir]

DESTRAUDO wrote...

You say that we play the best of the best, and that no volus could meet that expectation and thus, cannot be part of the MP experience. 

And yet how do the vorcha fit with this best of the best analogy. 

'Many vorcha are employed as cannon-fodder troops in gangs such as the Blood Pack, where their inexperience further shortens their brief lifespans.'

Much like the volus, there is no mention of them meeting any of the requirements that would set them out as suitable for special operations. Quite the contrary. Being able to follow a simple retreat command is treated like it is a pretty big deal. So, so far aw we know, the best of the best they are not.

' 'The Void Devils, a fighter group with vorcha pilots trained by humans and turians, fought hard during the battle for Heshtok and maintained the discipline to retreat, a notable accomplishment.''

Of course, they are not a homogenous race. They have exceptional individuals and those individuals earned the chance to be part of the teams in multiplayer. I see no reason to deny exceptional volus the same oppertunity.

There is a fundamental difference though. The Vorcha are known (set up by the games) as being a violent, fighting people. Shepard has encountered them as enemies, and (possibly) recruited them for the war effort (Blood Pack). They are warriors. The Volus are not.

[Blarg]

 I've said this before but...OP, you've got some catching up to do.

[GhostShadow115]

Why am I on another one of these threads...?

Oh... yeah Rifneno making arguments and others trying to counter it, and the general madness that comes with these kinds of threads in which both sides say that the other side is butt hurt...

Sheogorath Approves.

[The Aesthetic Ghant]

OneTrueShot wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

OneTrueShot wrote...

jpraelster93 wrote...

OneTrueShot wrote...

Not like I didn't give you guys months to prepare for the butthurt, but did you all believe me? Nooooooo...Everyone shun the prophet that had already predicted several occurences in MP.

You arent a prophet your just lucky and this time your wrong you dope

Ahahaha! Ah...Ahahaha!

Wait, you're serious, aren't you?

I love that gif. It NEVER gets old.

Me too. 

Skyyjohn is the man.

[VaultingFrog]

DESTRAUDO wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

DamonD7 wrote...

Hey, when hell is coming to the entire universe, everyone's gotta get out there with a gun

I, for one, will support our new volus overlords if they are indeed going to be in the MP. All-Volus teams in particular would be awesome.

Naturally they'd fight back when attacked.  The objection isn't that they would just sit back and die, it's that they're not capable of doing the kinds of missions we do in MP.  We play the best of the best.  Krogan battlemasters, asari justicars, salarian STG, N7s, we've got the biggest badasses in the galaxy and our missions are designed around giving them a major challenge.  MP missions require more than just being able to pull a trigger.

darthnick427 wrote...

I can smell their *Ffssssssttt* GREATNESS!

I can smell their greatness alright.  It smells like shortly after Taco Bell night on Tuchanka.

You say that we play the best of the best, and that no volus could meet that expectation and thus, cannot be part of the MP experience. 

And yet how do the vorcha fit with this best of the best analogy. 

'Many vorcha are employed as cannon-fodder troops in gangs such as the Blood Pack, where their inexperience further shortens their brief lifespans.'

Much like the volus, there is no mention of them meeting any of the requirements that would set them out as suitable for special operations. Quite the contrary. Being able to follow a simple retreat command is treated like it is a pretty big deal. So, so far aw we know, the best of the best they are not.

' 'The Void Devils, a fighter group with vorcha pilots trained by humans and turians, fought hard during the battle for Heshtok and maintained the discipline to retreat, a notable accomplishment.''

Of course, they are not a homogenous race. They have exceptional individuals and those individuals earned the chance to be part of the teams in multiplayer. I see no reason to deny exceptional volus the same oppertunity. 


On the subject of science in mass effect. You are right, but so is the person you criticized and implied had no knowledge of science. Science in mass effect is a veneer of accuracy glued to a ball of nonsense, which you  basically admit to.  That ball is element zero, and rather than just being the basis of ftl , it is the basis of pretty much every tech in mass effect, meaning everything from the weapons to shields to biotics and even artificial gravity is hokum. And that is ok because it is hokum without which the game would not exist. There are exceptions yes, like the quantum entanglement communicator, but they are exceptions to the rule. 

Don't get me wrong. I love the effort bioware went to with the scientific shell. By encasing element zero in a shell of 95 percent solid science they allow you to very happily suspend disbelief, but it does not change the fact that under every major piece of tech in mass effect are the words 'space magic'. And just as every other sci fi franchise uses their space magic to get around current science problems ( heisenberg compensators come to mind) mass effect uses element zero to get around theirs. As such, when that guy said that science did not matter in mass effect, they were dead right, because there is nothing that the devs would ever want to do in the universe, that they would choose not to do because of current science.   

As such, when i am told the volus cannot fight because of sayyyy exploding suits, i can tell you, WITH ABSOLUTE CONFIDENCE  that there is no science problem that you can throw at the devs, that they cannot solve by applying the following formula.

X generates a mass effect field, which is manipulated by Y , using material Z  = problem solved. 



On a side note. While i can understand that you have a lot of passion for mass effect, and that is no bad thing, your passion is sliding you into bouts of insulting people, which is a bad thing, because if you push too far with it someone will in a fit of spite report the various posts where you insult them. My understanding is someone was already banned in the last few days over their posts in volus threads. One is too many. Especially over something so meaningless.  

There is a huge difference between the Volus and the Vorcha. Yes the Vorcha are not particularly bright nor are "tame" by any standards. However that does not negate the fact that they are more than combat capable. They are able to go into heavy fighting and come out alive again.

Sure they are used in mass numbers by the Blood Pack, but there is a reason for that. They fight by attrition. They are also probably the most adaptable species in the ME universe. They are, or at least can be, immune to toxins and or viruses/plauges. They regenerate at a rate that is nigh unheard of out side of Krogan. Their bodies adapt to which ever environment they are in, IE high gravity world means denser muscles, bone structure...ect. They thrive in harsh conditions where other species would be destroyed.

That is, at least to me, the supreme reason why they are included in MP. They are killers and survivers. The Volus on the other hand are not either of those things.

The Volus require a highly pressurize environment to keep their bodies from basically exploding. Plus they require an atmosphere that most species can not survive in, hence the environment suits. These are severe limitations. A single puncture to the suit would more that likely spell the doom of that particular Volus. And yes you could argue that the Quarrians wear suits too however they are fundimentally different from the Volus suits. They are not pressurized and they are able to breath a standard atmospheric mix of elements along with the other races (all be it filtered for clean air). Their issue is their immune system which they work around by being able to seal off parts of their suit in case of a rupture and are flooded with anti-biotics to combat infection. A Volus suit could surely be modified to include section seals but they would be next to useless because you have already lost pressure in the suit and the Volus if not dead already would be in a slow decompression and the exposed tissue would be lost for certain. Not to mention the rest of their bodies quite possibly going pop in their suits.

If that were not enough to disqualify them from combat their physical limitations would. Physically they are not able to handle even the weakest biotics. It took huge doses of M-X3 to even get a tiny biotic ability out of his smelliness. So that combat buff is basically out the window unless your planning on poisoning them too. Tech, sure they could be hackers and whatnot with those three clawed mechanical hands so I could give them that. But physically they are not sturdy. They just are not durable enough. Whats worse is that they move slowly. Mechanical enhancement can only go so far on a organic form before the organic parts just cannot keep up. And thats what I see happening to the Volus if they tried to do that with them. Their little legs wouldnt be up to the stress of moving that rapidly and frequently. And quite honestly I doubt they pack much of a punch when they do try to hit somebody as their arms are about as short as their legs.

Its not that I hate them, I just can not fathom any reasonable way for them to be combat capable in MP. Against their own kind even they preferd bombing runs to physical conflict. They are like a piece of one puzzle trying to fit into a different puzzle than the one it came from. It just doesnt work to me.

The only, and I stress only in my opinion, way I could ever see them being in MP is with a mech suit similar to the Atlas and I just dont see players getting an option like that ever. It would nulify all weapons, abilities and gear for the most part. And would more than likely be too unwieldy to be of much use other than blocking a hallway with its bulk.

Yes its my opinion. Yes you can think differently. I got no problem with that. But if it does happen I think that Bioware just wasted toon slots for species much more valuable.

[DESTRAUDO]

UpirNoir wrote...

DESTRAUDO wrote...

You say that we play the best of the best, and that no volus could meet that expectation and thus, cannot be part of the MP experience. 

And yet how do the vorcha fit with this best of the best analogy. 

'Many vorcha are employed as cannon-fodder troops in gangs such as the Blood Pack, where their inexperience further shortens their brief lifespans.'

Much like the volus, there is no mention of them meeting any of the requirements that would set them out as suitable for special operations. Quite the contrary. Being able to follow a simple retreat command is treated like it is a pretty big deal. So, so far aw we know, the best of the best they are not.

' 'The Void Devils, a fighter group with vorcha pilots trained by humans and turians, fought hard during the battle for Heshtok and maintained the discipline to retreat, a notable accomplishment.''

Of course, they are not a homogenous race. They have exceptional individuals and those individuals earned the chance to be part of the teams in multiplayer. I see no reason to deny exceptional volus the same oppertunity.

There is a fundamental difference though. The Vorcha are known (set up by the games) as being a violent, fighting people. Shepard has encountered them as enemies, and (possibly) recruited them for the war effort (Blood Pack). They are warriors. The Volus are not.

The argument it was responding to was excluding volus because they were not 'the best of the best' material.

In terms of your argument, whatever the codex says about their psychology, in game volus are shown to have a range of negative emotion which would lead to violence and the need to prevent it/control it. The fact that the ones we have seen are incompetent say as much about the volus in combat as conrad verner says about us. We also know the volus supply troops to the turians. Auxiliaries or not, they are troops, they are soldiers. They are warriors. Are they potentially weaker than their human equivelant. Maybe. But that invalidates them about as much as the krogans physical superiority invalidates the worth of human soldiers. The reason that previous posters fell back to the 'best of the best' argument is because the volus being incapable of combat in lore has already been dismissed via codex entries. 

Modifié par DESTRAUDO, 08 octobre 2012 - 04:19 .

[DESTRAUDO]

VaultingFrog wrote...

DESTRAUDO wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

DamonD7 wrote...

Hey, when hell is coming to the entire universe, everyone's gotta get out there with a gun

I, for one, will support our new volus overlords if they are indeed going to be in the MP. All-Volus teams in particular would be awesome.

Naturally they'd fight back when attacked.  The objection isn't that they would just sit back and die, it's that they're not capable of doing the kinds of missions we do in MP.  We play the best of the best.  Krogan battlemasters, asari justicars, salarian STG, N7s, we've got the biggest badasses in the galaxy and our missions are designed around giving them a major challenge.  MP missions require more than just being able to pull a trigger.

darthnick427 wrote...

I can smell their *Ffssssssttt* GREATNESS!

I can smell their greatness alright.  It smells like shortly after Taco Bell night on Tuchanka.

You say that we play the best of the best, and that no volus could meet that expectation and thus, cannot be part of the MP experience. 

And yet how do the vorcha fit with this best of the best analogy. 

'Many vorcha are employed as cannon-fodder troops in gangs such as the Blood Pack, where their inexperience further shortens their brief lifespans.'

Much like the volus, there is no mention of them meeting any of the requirements that would set them out as suitable for special operations. Quite the contrary. Being able to follow a simple retreat command is treated like it is a pretty big deal. So, so far aw we know, the best of the best they are not.

' 'The Void Devils, a fighter group with vorcha pilots trained by humans and turians, fought hard during the battle for Heshtok and maintained the discipline to retreat, a notable accomplishment.''

Of course, they are not a homogenous race. They have exceptional individuals and those individuals earned the chance to be part of the teams in multiplayer. I see no reason to deny exceptional volus the same oppertunity. 


On the subject of science in mass effect. You are right, but so is the person you criticized and implied had no knowledge of science. Science in mass effect is a veneer of accuracy glued to a ball of nonsense, which you  basically admit to.  That ball is element zero, and rather than just being the basis of ftl , it is the basis of pretty much every tech in mass effect, meaning everything from the weapons to shields to biotics and even artificial gravity is hokum. And that is ok because it is hokum without which the game would not exist. There are exceptions yes, like the quantum entanglement communicator, but they are exceptions to the rule. 

Don't get me wrong. I love the effort bioware went to with the scientific shell. By encasing element zero in a shell of 95 percent solid science they allow you to very happily suspend disbelief, but it does not change the fact that under every major piece of tech in mass effect are the words 'space magic'. And just as every other sci fi franchise uses their space magic to get around current science problems ( heisenberg compensators come to mind) mass effect uses element zero to get around theirs. As such, when that guy said that science did not matter in mass effect, they were dead right, because there is nothing that the devs would ever want to do in the universe, that they would choose not to do because of current science.   

As such, when i am told the volus cannot fight because of sayyyy exploding suits, i can tell you, WITH ABSOLUTE CONFIDENCE  that there is no science problem that you can throw at the devs, that they cannot solve by applying the following formula.

X generates a mass effect field, which is manipulated by Y , using material Z  = problem solved. 



On a side note. While i can understand that you have a lot of passion for mass effect, and that is no bad thing, your passion is sliding you into bouts of insulting people, which is a bad thing, because if you push too far with it someone will in a fit of spite report the various posts where you insult them. My understanding is someone was already banned in the last few days over their posts in volus threads. One is too many. Especially over something so meaningless.  

There is a huge difference between the Volus and the Vorcha. Yes the Vorcha are not particularly bright nor are "tame" by any standards. However that does not negate the fact that they are more than combat capable. They are able to go into heavy fighting and come out alive again.

Sure they are used in mass numbers by the Blood Pack, but there is a reason for that. They fight by attrition. They are also probably the most adaptable species in the ME universe. They are, or at least can be, immune to toxins and or viruses/plauges. They regenerate at a rate that is nigh unheard of out side of Krogan. Their bodies adapt to which ever environment they are in, IE high gravity world means denser muscles, bone structure...ect. They thrive in harsh conditions where other species would be destroyed.

That is, at least to me, the supreme reason why they are included in MP. They are killers and survivers. The Volus on the other hand are not either of those things.

The Volus require a highly pressurize environment to keep their bodies from basically exploding. Plus they require an atmosphere that most species can not survive in, hence the environment suits. These are severe limitations. A single puncture to the suit would more that likely spell the doom of that particular Volus. And yes you could argue that the Quarrians wear suits too however they are fundimentally different from the Volus suits. They are not pressurized and they are able to breath a standard atmospheric mix of elements along with the other races (all be it filtered for clean air). Their issue is their immune system which they work around by being able to seal off parts of their suit in case of a rupture and are flooded with anti-biotics to combat infection. A Volus suit could surely be modified to include section seals but they would be next to useless because you have already lost pressure in the suit and the Volus if not dead already would be in a slow decompression and the exposed tissue would be lost for certain. Not to mention the rest of their bodies quite possibly going pop in their suits.

If that were not enough to disqualify them from combat their physical limitations would. Physically they are not able to handle even the weakest biotics. It took huge doses of M-X3 to even get a tiny biotic ability out of his smelliness. So that combat buff is basically out the window unless your planning on poisoning them too. Tech, sure they could be hackers and whatnot with those three clawed mechanical hands so I could give them that. But physically they are not sturdy. They just are not durable enough. Whats worse is that they move slowly. Mechanical enhancement can only go so far on a organic form before the organic parts just cannot keep up. And thats what I see happening to the Volus if they tried to do that with them. Their little legs wouldnt be up to the stress of moving that rapidly and frequently. And quite honestly I doubt they pack much of a punch when they do try to hit somebody as their arms are about as short as their legs.

Its not that I hate them, I just can not fathom any reasonable way for them to be combat capable in MP. Against their own kind even they preferd bombing runs to physical conflict. They are like a piece of one puzzle trying to fit into a different puzzle than the one it came from. It just doesnt work to me.

The only, and I stress only in my opinion, way I could ever see them being in MP is with a mech suit similar to the Atlas and I just dont see players getting an option like that ever. It would nulify all weapons, abilities and gear for the most part. And would more than likely be too unwieldy to be of much use other than blocking a hallway with its bulk.

Yes its my opinion. Yes you can think differently. I got no problem with that. But if it does happen I think that Bioware just wasted toon slots for species much more valuable.

I think i addressed most of your points in a previous post to someone else. In terms of biotics, you reference a single case with a character who had no previous biotic experience or aptitude.  You joke of poisioning them, yet is that not exactly what the illusive man did to us when he arranged several explosions of element zero on or near human colonies. The result was many many birth defects, and some biotic kids. As such biotics clearly dont take for everyone, and not everyone is cut out to be a biotic. Krogan, salarian and turian biotics are extremely rare according to lore, but you would not judge the biotic ability of any of these races off of one bumbling fool with no actual biotic ability to speak of.  By the same token, i cannot judge the volus to be terrible biotics on the basis of one drugged up goofball, only that volus have the capacity to be biotics.  

Modifié par DESTRAUDO, 08 octobre 2012 - 04:15 .

[Rudest]

The war rages on

[A Wild Snorlax]

Schneidend wrote...

The tears of the anti-volus players are delicious.

^^ This. Cry moar ''lore'' nerds, a great wind is coming.

[UpirNoir]

DESTRAUDO wrote...
The argument it was responding to was excluding volus because they were not 'the best of the best' material.

In terms of your argument, whatever the codex says about their psychology, in game volus are shown to have a range of negative emotion which would lead to violence and the need to prevent it/control it. The fact that the ones we have seen are incompetent say as much about the volus in combat as conrad verner says about us. We also know the volus supply troops to the turians. Auxiliaries or not, they are troops, they are soldiers. They are warriors. Are they potentially weaker than their human equivelant. Maybe. But that invalidates them about as much as the krogans physical superiority invalidates the worth of human soldiers. The reason that previous posters fell back to the 'best of the best' argument is because the volus being incapable of combat in lore has already been dismissed via codex entries. 

First of all there is a fundamental disagreement. I have yet to see a codex entry the dismisses the claim, that they are not fit to fight as frontline groundsoldiers. And no, the part about the auxiliary troops does not dismiss this claim in any way.
Second: Yes they might have warriors. At least at some point in their history they probably solved conflicts in a violent way. But they did this on Irune, in their home environment, and fighting each other (a hamster can beat another hamster in combat, but a human will just step on them). So, they might have warriors, that might even be able to stand their ground facing reaper forces, but that is on Irune where they don't need their pressure suits. Maybe outside of theses suits they are capable little furballs that can bite and claw or shoot acid fluids from their asses, who knows. But the mp missions don't take place on Irune, but on planets/in environments where they would die instantly without their suits/as soon as their suits are ruptured. Just like Hanar can be a fearsome foes inside of a body of water, but are more or less harmless (even if very strong --> ask Zaeed about that ), slow and by the looks of it "soft" Jellyfish on land.

Modifié par UpirNoir, 08 octobre 2012 - 04:43 .

[VaultingFrog]

DESTRAUDO wrote...

I think i addressed most of your points in a previous post to someone else. In terms of biotics, you reference a single case with a character who had no previous biotic experience or aptitude.  You joke of poisioning them, yet is that not exactly what the illusive man did when he arranged several explosions of element zero on or near human colonies. The result was many many birth defects, and some biotic kids. As such biotics clearly dont take for everyone, and not everyone is cut out to be a biotic. Krogan, salarian and turian biotics are extremely rare according to lore, but you would not judge the biotic ability of any of these races off of one bumbling fool with no actual biotic ability to speak of.  By the same token, i cannot judge the volus to be terrible biotics on the basis of one drugged up goofball, only that volus have the capacity to be biotics.  

Sigh..... here we go again....

No you did not address the inherent physical disabilities of the Volus to me nor anybody else. Giving them element zero wouldnt solve a bloody thing. A suit rupture is a suit rupture, no ifs ands or buts about it. Once that rupture takes place there is no going back and for the Volus it is nigh a death sentence due to their physical requirements. Mass Effect fields can not replace an atmosphere after it has been breached. This isnt Star Trek with their emergency force fields that hold in atmosphere and whatnot. Their pressurized atmosphere will begin venting and continue to vent until the hole has been patched. During which the organic tissues under their suit will begin to rupture, causing massive blood loss, organ failure, loss of mobility...ect until finally death. Sealing down around the hole wouldnt prevent tissue loss as the pressure with in their own bodies would force their organs through the point of least resistance, aka the breach in their suit. You can seal around the surface all you want but once the skin is exposed it will explode as it decompresses and the rest of the body will follow suit due to there being a path of least resistance.

And as I stated previously, mechanical assistance can only to so much for an organic body before the body is unable to perform said tasks with upgrades due to strain. The Volus physically are just not able to take that kind of strain. Their limbs are short/stubby and would have to artifically be lengthend and strengthen for any successful mechanical assistance of long periods of time or for high intensity short bursts. As this just wont happen their physical form is a huge reason why they should not ever be introduced into combat.

And yes I do judge the Volus on that particular biotic because as a whole race they have near 0% biotic potental. That particular Volus had to have some latent biotic potential for that chemical to even work and even after massive doses of it he still could bairly produce a single "warp, pull, throw" sphere which shortly after launched fizzled out with out reaching the target. The chemical used on him is reported to significantly increase biotic ability with one dose and is compounded with subsequent doses. If that doesnt tell you something about the inherent traits of the Volus and their biotic potential I dont know what will.

You mention Krogan as being rare biotics. Sure they are considered rare to see however those that are biotics are extremely powerful ones. Just like humans. Biotics in humans is not common either, heck I would say its rare for them too yet it is already a viable combat aid with out the need of chemical enhancement. Salarians have few biotics this is true and forgo that for technical expertiese. But I have no doubt that they have some significanly powerful biotics. In fact Mordin was slated to be a biotic in ME2 but was switched due to having too many biotics already. Again it is a viable combat tool before any chemical enhancement. The only drawback to biotics is needing an amp which helps focus their powers easier. And with the demonstrated biotic skill of the Volus (or lack there of) there is simply no reason for them to have amps other than to sell them to others.

You state that every species has the "ability" to be a biotic. This is true (with the exception of the Geth) however it varies from species to species on how much potential they have biotically. I have no doubt that there are a very very very very very very very very scarce few biotic Volus out there but their potential is still far less than Humans, Salarians, Krogan, Turians and Asari.

Quarrians dont use biotics for the most part and they have no reason to. They are tech experts which makes up for their lack of powerful biotics. I would put them in the same boat as the Volus when it comes to biotic potential. The Vorcha are a mystery to me in biotic potential. I would think they would have great potential however due to their lack of focus they dont exploit it like the other species. And having a short life span probably doesnt help. That being said, due to their adaptiveness I have no doubt they would be able to be strong biotics in a short amount of time.

And no I didnt joke about the poisoning. That is literally what that chemical does in multiple doses. Why else do you think the Eclipse Sisters were ticked and Von? And it is no joke when TIM commited those actions on human colonies. The fact remains however that even with out TIMs forced intigration into higher biotics, human biotics were being born naturally before hand and were already showing great potential. It was an inevitable course of evolution for humanity as a whole after being intoduced to element zero.

Now lets talk about their center of gravity. Having their stubby limbs and their spherical bodies their center of gravity isnt exactly stable. A relatively light shove is more than enough to knock a Volus off balance. I am not sure how you could not see this as a fault in combat....

As it stands the Volus dont have the physical capabilities required to perform in combat at the level we see in MP. They simply dont. I dont know how much more blunt I can be about it. Unless they get outside assistence (such as mechanical upgrades) they are about as useful as wet tissue paper  in combat.

[RNG God]

[VaultingFrog]

SalvationThroughDestruction wrote...

I wish I could do this but I got sucked in dammit.

[DESTRAUDO]

VaultingFrog wrote...

DESTRAUDO wrote...

I think i addressed most of your points in a previous post to someone else. In terms of biotics, you reference a single case with a character who had no previous biotic experience or aptitude.  You joke of poisioning them, yet is that not exactly what the illusive man did when he arranged several explosions of element zero on or near human colonies. The result was many many birth defects, and some biotic kids. As such biotics clearly dont take for everyone, and not everyone is cut out to be a biotic. Krogan, salarian and turian biotics are extremely rare according to lore, but you would not judge the biotic ability of any of these races off of one bumbling fool with no actual biotic ability to speak of.  By the same token, i cannot judge the volus to be terrible biotics on the basis of one drugged up goofball, only that volus have the capacity to be biotics.  

Sigh..... here we go again....

No you did not address the inherent physical disabilities of the Volus to me nor anybody else. Giving them element zero wouldnt solve a bloody thing. A suit rupture is a suit rupture, no ifs ands or buts about it. Once that rupture takes place there is no going back and for the Volus it is nigh a death sentence due to their physical requirements. Mass Effect fields can not replace an atmosphere after it has been breached. This isnt Star Trek with their emergency force fields that hold in atmosphere and whatnot. Their pressurized atmosphere will begin venting and continue to vent until the hole has been patched. During which the organic tissues under their suit will begin to rupture, causing massive blood loss, organ failure, loss of mobility...ect until finally death. Sealing down around the hole wouldnt prevent tissue loss as the pressure with in their own bodies would force their organs through the point of least resistance, aka the breach in their suit. You can seal around the surface all you want but once the skin is exposed it will explode as it decompresses and the rest of the body will follow suit due to there being a path of least resistance.

And as I stated previously, mechanical assistance can only to so much for an organic body before the body is unable to perform said tasks with upgrades due to strain. The Volus physically are just not able to take that kind of strain. Their limbs are short/stubby and would have to artifically be lengthend and strengthen for any successful mechanical assistance of long periods of time or for high intensity short bursts. As this just wont happen their physical form is a huge reason why they should not ever be introduced into combat.

And yes I do judge the Volus on that particular biotic because as a whole race they have near 0% biotic potental. That particular Volus had to have some latent biotic potential for that chemical to even work and even after massive doses of it he still could bairly produce a single "warp, pull, throw" sphere which shortly after launched fizzled out with out reaching the target. The chemical used on him is reported to significantly increase biotic ability with one dose and is compounded with subsequent doses. If that doesnt tell you something about the inherent traits of the Volus and their biotic potential I dont know what will.

You mention Krogan as being rare biotics. Sure they are considered rare to see however those that are biotics are extremely powerful ones. Just like humans. Biotics in humans is not common either, heck I would say its rare for them too yet it is already a viable combat aid with out the need of chemical enhancement. Salarians have few biotics this is true and forgo that for technical expertiese. But I have no doubt that they have some significanly powerful biotics. In fact Mordin was slated to be a biotic in ME2 but was switched due to having too many biotics already. Again it is a viable combat tool before any chemical enhancement. The only drawback to biotics is needing an amp which helps focus their powers easier. And with the demonstrated biotic skill of the Volus (or lack there of) there is simply no reason for them to have amps other than to sell them to others.

You state that every species has the "ability" to be a biotic. This is true (with the exception of the Geth) however it varies from species to species on how much potential they have biotically. I have no doubt that there are a very very very very very very very very scarce few biotic Volus out there but their potential is still far less than Humans, Salarians, Krogan, Turians and Asari.

Quarrians dont use biotics for the most part and they have no reason to. They are tech experts which makes up for their lack of powerful biotics. I would put them in the same boat as the Volus when it comes to biotic potential. The Vorcha are a mystery to me in biotic potential. I would think they would have great potential however due to their lack of focus they dont exploit it like the other species. And having a short life span probably doesnt help. That being said, due to their adaptiveness I have no doubt they would be able to be strong biotics in a short amount of time.

And no I didnt joke about the poisoning. That is literally what that chemical does in multiple doses. Why else do you think the Eclipse Sisters were ticked and Von? And it is no joke when TIM commited those actions on human colonies. The fact remains however that even with out TIMs forced intigration into higher biotics, human biotics were being born naturally before hand and were already showing great potential. It was an inevitable course of evolution for humanity as a whole after being intoduced to element zero.

Now lets talk about their center of gravity. Having their stubby limbs and their spherical bodies their center of gravity isnt exactly stable. A relatively light shove is more than enough to knock a Volus off balance. I am not sure how you could not see this as a fault in combat....

As it stands the Volus dont have the physical capabilities required to perform in combat at the level we see in MP. They simply dont. I dont know how much more blunt I can be about it. Unless they get outside assistence (such as mechanical upgrades) they are about as useful as wet tissue paper  in combat.

So to sum up your arguments.

A suit rupture is a suit rupture and that is that, and element zero would not make a bit of difference. But it can be and is placed into every other gap of the science in mass effect without complaint.  

This is not startrek with emergency forcefields to hold gasses in , and yet mass effect has force fields, both personal and large scale, which have been shown to serve the exact same function as the emergency forcefields used in star trek shuttle bays. Most recently leviathan had a great example. So that assertion is provably false.

In terms of explosive decompression, i would direct you to a great thread with actual science that lays waste to that claim.  social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/14384548/1

You declare the volus would require their legs to be strengthened , however this flies in the face of logic given their homeworld has a gravity of 1.5 g, meaning the volus's skeletal support structure is actually much stronger then a humans. It is humans who would require support on the volus world, not the other way around. 

You declare the volus as a race have 0 biotic potential, with 0 evidence from lore or otherwise to make such a sweeping generalisation. You then reverse this declaration in the next sentence by declaring that a volus had latent biotic potential awakened. You then take this volus as the benchmark for the potential of an entire race for no reason. I mean if he was pitched as a volus special project in biotics i would say something, but he was a crazy drug addict. There is absolutely no logical foundation for taking him as representative of anything except for himself. 

You then go on to explain how salarian krogan and turians biotics are extremely rare yet give assurances that they are super powerful. You even go on to speculate how vorcha could be extremely powerful biotics with absolutely no reason to do so, and at the same time and with the same level of logic, declare all the volus to be incapable and that said drug addict happened to be one of the super rare cases of full biotic potential in a species. This is a very selective set of leaps of faith you are willing to throw out for pretty much everyone bar the volus. 


However. There is another reason that your argument that volus have no biotic potential falls flat. That would be the fact that we are getting a volus adept and vanguard. That kind of seals the deal dont you think?

Similarly, given we are getting 4 volus classes dont you think that means the creators of the game, and the universe would fall on my side of this argument both in terms of biotics and volus combat capability? 
 

Modifié par DESTRAUDO, 08 octobre 2012 - 05:21 .

[oO Stryfe Oo]

Eelectrica wrote...

oO Stryfe Oo wrote...

Eelectrica wrote...

johnstreetmusic wrote...

Its not about lore for me its about sending a berbil to war with elite forces. Maybe they'll give him roller skates and a gun that shoots a spring loaded boxing glove to complete the ridiculousness.

*Yawn* so it is about 'lore'

Theeeeere you go. Bolded the important part, since you seem to be unable to read. Hope that makes it easier.

invalid. no  more  ridiculous than vorcha.

Vorcha don't have a stale, forum-wide joke about them mentioned in every thread they're in, do they? Yeah, they don't. Don't play dumb. Here, I've even made a shorter sentence within a sentence about the words you apparently still haven't read.

Edit: Was reading over the thread and forgot to mention a few things to back up my argument.

Vorcha are a bloodthirsty, violent people that regenerate health. This alone should be enough. Moving on.

Vorcha were enemies in Mass Effect 2. This proves that they are, whether you like it or not, combat capable. Keep in mind this is if the regeneration and natural violence doesn't do it for you. Volus have never been seen using a gun, not that they can't. There's a reason that they haven't been seen in-game though, and why it's silly to believe that they'd be holding said gun within the ranks of the other characters in MP. Rhifeno's post up there sums it up quite nicely, if you'll take a look at it (you won't).

The Vorcha in ME2 used flamethrowers. It appears BW wanted to adapt the flamethrower into MP without making it a weapon anyone could use. Thus, flamer.

A Volus Engineer is the only one that attempts to make some sense, so I'll concede that. The rest? Eh...not so much.

Look, yawn all you like, but I could go on. What arguments have you got (besides, "screw lore" or "Volus would be fun")? I'd love to hear them.

Modifié par oO Stryfe Oo, 09 octobre 2012 - 03:10 .

[MyChemicalBromance]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

We have Omega coming soon and rumors abound of a mysterious new race or subrace. Meanwhile dataminers found, in files that BW KNOWS we'll see, references to a race that's not fit for combat and doesn't use the standard skeleton that every other playable race does.

But yes, those of us who are unconvinced are just in denial. Morons.

If they are real *kssssh* I will remember this post *kssshhhh* and I will send it to you *kssssssh* every day *ksssssh* forever.

*ksssh* *ksssssh* *ksssh*