289 réponses à ce sujet

[Epique Phael767]

Flies_by_Handles wrote...

Just yesterday I saw a Pyro roll backwards to avoid a warp ball.

He rolled.

Him and his giant fuel tank.

One has to wonder why we cannot grap them over edges if the reasoning is that they are too heavy.

So we have agile flamethrowers, another geth weapon that stunlocks you among all of the cheap crap the Geth have thrown at us for the past six months. Along with the stunlock, what I find extremely aggravating is rocket trooper behavior. Not just their penchant for shooting 2 or 3 rockets at once, but their penchant for aggressively walking towards you, clubbing you in the face, and then firing off rockets. If a Nemesis behaved in similar manner we'd all laugh at the absurdity of it. Why does a long-range enemy become so damn effective at close-range? What's the drawback?

It's lousy AI design.

Most of MP is lousy AI design.

[Schnuez1]

just 2 things imho

- double/tripple rockets
- hunters shooting when stuned/frozen/stasis

these are the moments I start having problems with my blood pressure
seeing geth+hydra/condor I immediatley quit lobby, allways!

[tonydaazntiger319]

I just hate how the geth eney types all have something annoying about them.
Primes: the drone will stagger you now plus they have multiple turrets everywhere that are difficult to see
Pyros: Longer range for their attack than what you actually see
Hunters: STUN LOCKING plus being able to do so while staggered/in stasis/when they're not supposed to be able to
Rocket Troopers: Shooting multiple rockets that CURVE
Normal Troopers are whatever

[78stonewobble]

Epique Phael767 wrote...
Most of MP is lousy AI design.

Well L4D(s) had it easy. Zombies are not really supposed to seem intelligent. 

Modifié par 78stonewobble, 08 octobre 2012 - 08:36 .

[oO Stryfe Oo]

BuckshotSamurai wrote...

Chris, there are three major issues with Geth that make them unplayable many of us.

1. Pyros: apparently so heavy a Krogan can't pull them over low cover and smash thier face into an oily pulp, yet we cant hear them approach. Then of course you just instantly die because damage of the flamethrower has you down to 2 bars of health before you know you are on fire but its already too late to kill them or get away. The fire damage and animation need to be the same since we can't feel the heat.


2. Hunters: Their Cloak makes them immune to all melee attacks which is a huge problem for characters with less mobility. Being cloaked shouldn't mean incorporeal (SP?) as is the case when a pissed of Krogan runs directly at them but pass right through the Hunter (Imake same point with Cerberus smoke). Also the Hunters should not be able to fire while affected by any power that renders enemies helpless (Stasis/Carnage with EVO 3/Submiion Net/Singularity/Pull).

3. Primes: Its all about the "Pets". The Prime is already a TANK with the most feared weapon (Pulse Cannon) and has by far the most deadly and fear support in Hunters/Pyros/Rocket Troopers; so why does he need 3 turrets that drop your shields in a single burst and now a Seek & Stagger attack drone? This is overkill and not even slightly fun to deal with.


Overall the difficulty of the Geth is set to Cheap instead of Challenging. I don't want it to be easy, I want a worthy challenge. None of us like going around a corner and having zero chance because a cloaked hunter staggers you while a pyro burns you out. All we ask is that we be able to defend ourselves so that we can use creative tactics to defeat these demons rather than sitting behind cover spamming two powers for 33 minutes at a time.

I don't know if the Geth changes were made to stop/slow farming but to most of us that is what it feels like. Sadly it doesn't and won't affect them. It only affects those of us who like to mix up strategis and adapt on the fly, and there are waaaaaaay more of us than there are of them.

I agree with everything but the third point. Primes, as boss units without a OHKO, need to be somewhat stronger than the Atlas & Banshee.  There's a post further below the one that I quoted that does a great job at summarizing the Geth's real problem; their mid-tier units work together a little too well for their cheapness to be allowed to slide. Rocket troopers lay covering fire for Geth Pyros, who slowly advance to get players out of cover. Geth Hunters take advantage of the players focus on the Pyros and converge quickly onto a target. I've noticed that, when in groups, they tend to all target the same player.

Once the Geth's cheapness (double/triple rockets, shoot while stasis'd, etc.) are fixed, the geth will once again become laughable. A simple damage buff/nerf will not be enough to fix them. BW knows this, hence the Bomber, who may  solve all of our problems. If it doesn't, the the Geth will need some sort of AI buff. For example;

• Have the Geth Hunters attempt a flanking maneuver (similar to the phantom) instead of making a beeline for players.
  
  
• Give the Pyro some sort of audio cue, like the Nemesis and Phantom have, to let players know there is one nearby/remind players they are on the battlefield.
  
  
• Have geth in the Primes vicinity recieve Hunter mode, or some sort of bonus. The Prime is, after all, a hub unit.
  
  
• Have Trooper units stay near the Prime more often than not, in order to recieve said bonus.

I don't think anyone here has a problem defeating them. Fighting them just feels like work, which is not something you want in a game. After thinking about the synergies of the mid-tier units, the Geth could become a formidable force without the cheapness, which is why I think BW is so hesitant to make changes to them.

Modifié par oO Stryfe Oo, 08 octobre 2012 - 08:42 .

[CitizenThom]

I think the upgrade of the Geth Primes means that the other troops can be dialed down a bit.

Stun lock should be greatly reduced. You should be able to run to nearby cover. Maybe make the stunlock only affect attacks, but not rolls, dodges or running. Or maybe do it the other way around.

The Prime's Turrets and Drones should have a cooldown timer and a proximity limitation on casting. (A prime can set a turret, and walk away, but can only set a turret within a certian range of their current position). I would even say that the Prime's combined Defensive and Offensive Drones is sufficient to make the Prime balanced with other factions' bosses now. Get rid of the Turrets altogether.

Modifié par CitizenThom, 08 octobre 2012 - 08:42 .

[oO Stryfe Oo]

CitizenThom wrote...

I think the upgrade of the Geth Primes means that the other troops can be dialed down a bit.

Stun lock should be greatly reduced. You should be able to run to nearby cover. Maybe make the stunlock only affect attacks, but not rolls, dodges or running. Or maybe do it the other way around.

The Prime's Turrets and Drones should have a cooldown timer and a proximity limitation on casting. (A prime can set a turret, and walk away, but can only set a turret within a certian range of their current position). I would even say that the Prime's combined Defensive and Offensive Drones is sufficient to make the Prime balanced with other factions' bosses now. Get rid of the Turrets altogether.

Never underestimate the all-powerful Sync Kill ability. It is the biggest contributor to failed matches. Other bosses have this ability, Primes don't. The only thing stopping you from salvaging a wave 9 wipe is how much medi-gel you're willing to use.

....well, that and how many Pyros/Hunters are standing near your unconcious body.

[billy the squid]

Chris Schanche wrote...

We're listening. We've made a few comments lately that we are aware that Geth are not the most fun right now, and that we're planning adjustments but haven't decided what those will be yet.

 That is at least something. The problem with the Geth was that to try and prevent the farming they were given huge buffs, all it succeeded in doing was to push more people to develop ways to camp/ farm the geth because they became phenominaly irritating to deal with normally.

So the buffs really failed in their goal to reduce farming as the farmers went unaffected and camping at choke points became the next most effective tactic.

My biggest issues with Geth were the overabundance of stunlocks with Hunters, the huge range of Pyros beyond the animation, the very high fire rate of rockets/ stunlocking and the fact they can go through walls and the general excessive bufffs to HP and shields.

Now if there are grenadiers included with the new DLC then certainly it would make FBW farming harder as a single grenade over the counter sends players running. But to balance things slightly in the face of this, namely tone down the range of the pyro flamethrower, especially now they can't be grabbed. Tone down the stunlock and ability of Hunters to fire when staggered (possibly the mist frustrating and irritating move done so far) and either slightly decrease rate of fire or stun lock on the rockets, but not both


Maybe the decrease shields/ HP slightly I'm not sure on this, especially if the previous 4 points on stunlock, flamer range and firing while staggered etc. are addressed. Then it might not be a good thing

Primes, I think are okay, they should give you pause and if caught in the open stun you letting theother geth get the jump on you. Maybe give the characters like Krogan, Turians and Batarians a slight resistance to the stun from their weapons.

The Geth are not really difficult they're just frustrating to play against, it being tedious getting stunlocked into oblivion by magically firing Hunters and Rocket troops

Modifié par billy the squid, 08 octobre 2012 - 09:11 .

[Epique Phael767]

oO Stryfe Oo wrote...

CitizenThom wrote...

I think the upgrade of the Geth Primes means that the other troops can be dialed down a bit.

Stun lock should be greatly reduced. You should be able to run to nearby cover. Maybe make the stunlock only affect attacks, but not rolls, dodges or running. Or maybe do it the other way around.

The Prime's Turrets and Drones should have a cooldown timer and a proximity limitation on casting. (A prime can set a turret, and walk away, but can only set a turret within a certian range of their current position). I would even say that the Prime's combined Defensive and Offensive Drones is sufficient to make the Prime balanced with other factions' bosses now. Get rid of the Turrets altogether.

Never underestimate the all-powerful Sync Kill ability. It is the biggest contributor to failed matches. Other bosses have this ability, Primes don't. The only thing stopping you from salvaging a wave 9 wipe is how much medi-gel you're willing to use.

....well, that and how many Pyros/Hunters are standing near your unconcious body.

No, stunlock is. stunlock is even more disempowering than sync-kills and I made a good arguement for it in the OP. Enemies don't sync-kill you if they aren't close, geth stunlock you all the time.

[whateverman7]

the only things about the geth that suck are: the rockets and prime shots tracking you around corners, no matter what; and the endless reaching pyro flame......if those get fixed (especially the pyro flame...it burns you and it wont be near you), and the geth will be fine,,,,yea, a lot of the other things suck, but they can be worked with

[Xeraphas]

The Geth pyro can be powerful but long range too? And why do pyros do so much damage in one shot or one second when it takes the Vorcha flamer, a similar skill, several seconds to wither down enemy health? Should the geth pyro not work similarly to the vorcha flamer? Shouldn't it have short range and damage over time? Most of the time the Pyro is not even using his flame thrower when I or a team mate gets shot by one which makes it seem like the pyros wield two weapons that are not compatible with one another. Who would put a gun in the same barrel or the same proximity as a flame thrower? The chances of you blowing yourself up would be enormous.

[Syrus101]

Flies_by_Handles wrote...

Just yesterday I saw a Pyro roll backwards to avoid a warp ball.

He rolled.

Him and his giant fuel tank.

One has to wonder why we cannot grap them over edges if the reasoning is that they are too heavy.

.

probably the same reason why Turians can cover swap(roll) and cant evade:P

[The JoeMan]

The JoeMan wrote...

I played a game of Geth Gold last night with a Batarian Soldier. It was my first time since the patch which reduces stun locks and it was noticibly less frustrating. That didn't make it "fun" mind you, just less frustrating. All of my issues with the Geth are centered around getting stunned. Losing control of your character is never fun.

Just finished a Geth Gold with a Turian Soldier.  I haven't come so close to throwing my controller through the TV in a LONG time.

[Moress]

the only thing that I feel really needs changing is the prime...now that the drone can hit and stun - probably as it should have all along - they need a teeny bit of tweeking. I'd suggest only letting them have only one turret up at once, or give them a bit of a cooldown before they can recast.

a reduction or removal of the pulse cannon's stun would be neat too.

All other geth however, are survivable. Sure, I'd LOVE to see rocket trooper multi-fire go away, but hunters are no issue. if you pay attention at all you can see them coming a mile off, and pyros...they're short range, even if they overshoot their animation. Put a smart choke on your shotguns, and everything else can handle them without much more than aim, even if you turn a very unlucky corner.

~editted for spelling and grammar

Modifié par Moress, 08 octobre 2012 - 09:35 .

[ParthianShotX]

If I didn't know better, I'd say that the Get do eat. Their favorite seems to be Quarian Barbecue. My Quarian . . .

[Eelectrica]

With the drone working, I think they can afford to lose one prime in wave 10 gold. Bringing it back to 2 primes on the field.

[Big_Choppa]

Here are my thoughts.

Troopers - Seems to be working fine

Rocket Troopers - Multiple rocket machinegun of stunlocking death. That's annoying and needs to be fixed.

Hunter - Stunlocking lightspeed fast stealth jackass. Not only do they stun lock the hell out of people, they are fast, targeting for them with powers and melee is really iffy, and they have the added bonus of firing at you sometimes while they are stunned, frozen, etc. Probably the second most annoying for me.

Pyro - The only problem I have with them is that I'm getting hit by them even though the flame itself is not hitting me. Just reduce the range to match the animation.

Prime - Holy nutballs (thanks Handsome Jack) these things are horrible. Stunlocking cannons that home on you, a stunning combat drone, and TWO geth turrets they can hurl through walls. These things are horrible.

[Killateral DMG]

They are so OP only because Bioware kept buffing them due to everyone abusing them on FBW, even though buffing them doesn't increase the difficulty of FBW, just the time it takes. It ruins it for everyone doing U/U who happen to get the geth.

[oO Stryfe Oo]

Epique Phael767 wrote...

oO Stryfe Oo wrote...

CitizenThom wrote...

I think the upgrade of the Geth Primes means that the other troops can be dialed down a bit.

Stun lock should be greatly reduced. You should be able to run to nearby cover. Maybe make the stunlock only affect attacks, but not rolls, dodges or running. Or maybe do it the other way around.

The Prime's Turrets and Drones should have a cooldown timer and a proximity limitation on casting. (A prime can set a turret, and walk away, but can only set a turret within a certian range of their current position). I would even say that the Prime's combined Defensive and Offensive Drones is sufficient to make the Prime balanced with other factions' bosses now. Get rid of the Turrets altogether.

Never underestimate the all-powerful Sync Kill ability. It is the biggest contributor to failed matches. Other bosses have this ability, Primes don't. The only thing stopping you from salvaging a wave 9 wipe is how much medi-gel you're willing to use.

....well, that and how many Pyros/Hunters are standing near your unconcious body.

No, stunlock is. stunlock is even more disempowering than sync-kills and I made a good arguement for it in the OP. Enemies don't sync-kill you if they aren't close, geth stunlock you all the time.

I'll admit that what you underlined in my post is based off my own experiences, but stunlock, while annoying, isn't as much of a gamebreaker as sync kills. You can at least medi-gel later after you've been stunlocked to hell. If even one of your teammates is OHKO'd on Platinum, the wave gets noticeably harder. If two go down, you've just about lost, especially in the later waves. Way I see it, just as distance is a countermeasure for Sync kills, so too is cover/stun-resistant classes a counter for stunlock. Perhaps you should try using cover a little more. There's wisdom in adapting to an enemies tactics, and I'd hate for Geth to become too similar to other factions. Stunlock needs to stay.

[78stonewobble]

*just pondering what his gethgineer could do with 4 turrets that he can deploy through walls*

...


Besides spying on the neighbours...

[Epique Phael767]

lightsnow13 wrote...

OK! Important one --- Very freakin important

Hunter shotguns should NOT be able to get through N7 sentinel shield with the ease in which they are able to now. No WAY should it be so easy for them. Point blank, right at my shield, yet somehow it goes right on through.

Out of all the issues, this one I find the most annoying. My shield could have saved me so many times if it worked.

[DarklighterFreak]

My only problem are these nasty triple barreled rocket launchers, should be banned for rocket glitching.

[Epique Phael767]

oO Stryfe Oo wrote...

Epique Phael767 wrote...

oO Stryfe Oo wrote...

CitizenThom wrote...

I think the upgrade of the Geth Primes means that the other troops can be dialed down a bit.

Stun lock should be greatly reduced. You should be able to run to nearby cover. Maybe make the stunlock only affect attacks, but not rolls, dodges or running. Or maybe do it the other way around.

The Prime's Turrets and Drones should have a cooldown timer and a proximity limitation on casting. (A prime can set a turret, and walk away, but can only set a turret within a certian range of their current position). I would even say that the Prime's combined Defensive and Offensive Drones is sufficient to make the Prime balanced with other factions' bosses now. Get rid of the Turrets altogether.

Never underestimate the all-powerful Sync Kill ability. It is the biggest contributor to failed matches. Other bosses have this ability, Primes don't. The only thing stopping you from salvaging a wave 9 wipe is how much medi-gel you're willing to use.

....well, that and how many Pyros/Hunters are standing near your unconcious body.

No, stunlock is. stunlock is even more disempowering than sync-kills and I made a good arguement for it in the OP. Enemies don't sync-kill you if they aren't close, geth stunlock you all the time.

I'll admit that what you underlined in my post is based off my own experiences, but stunlock, while annoying, isn't as much of a gamebreaker as sync kills. You can at least medi-gel later after you've been stunlocked to hell. If even one of your teammates is OHKO'd on Platinum, the wave gets noticeably harder. If two go down, you've just about lost, especially in the later waves. Way I see it, just as distance is a countermeasure for Sync kills, so too is cover/stun-resistant classes a counter for stunlock. Perhaps you should try using cover a little more. There's wisdom in adapting to an enemies tactics, and I'd hate for Geth to become too similar to other factions. Stunlock needs to stay.

While I do respect you opinion on OHKOs, at least when sync-killed if you do gel you can run and get away most of the time, with stunlock you are rooted to the same position and when your teammates come to rez you, they have to overcome stunlock as well with a time limit that being stunned takes a considerable amount out of. On the issue of staying in cover, half the time a turret spawns behind you, or a hunter bum-rushes around it forcing you out and back into the danger zone. OHKOs are a danger to the team by the loss of a teammate, but stunlock is more dangeorous because of the risk to everyone. As I said earlier in this post, when someone can be revived, the team tries to save the downed person, but by doing so, they unknowingly jeopardize themselves to the same fate. OHKO enemies have to be close to sync-kill, the geth don't. OHKO enemies only target one player at a time, the geth don't. OHKOs must me done by the enemies boss units, all geth can stunlock except for troopers and pyros. The two are unbalanced because the geths is just as deadly and more versatile, unbalancing the two, in my opinion.

Modifié par Epique Phael767, 08 octobre 2012 - 10:30 .