Modifié par DarkseidXIII, 08 octobre 2012 - 06:16 .
More geth hate. Bioware Is listening, so post your thoughts.
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Epique Phael767
, oct. 08 2012 03:10
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#101
Posté 08 octobre 2012 - 06:12
DarkseidXIII
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To Bioware, stop geth hunters from firing while staggered, rocket troopers from double firing rockets, pyros are armored, you should be able to hear them coming. Stop Primes from throwing turrets through walls and limit them to one. These changes are necessary to make them less "cheap". These are no brainers. To community, play better, fixes aren't instant.
Retour en haut
#102
Posté 08 octobre 2012 - 06:26
polymphus
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Goddam power goddam dodges. It seems like 10% of powers at non-geth get dodged and 75% fired at geth get dodged. Sometimes it doesn't even make sense- they'll be in a corner, I'll curve a power so they can't dodge it and they'll hop further against the wall -not actually moving- and the ability somehow misses.
I hope you weren't planning to use anything with a moving projectile.
I hope you weren't planning to use anything with a moving projectile.
#103
Posté 08 octobre 2012 - 06:40
ElementL09
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DarkseidXIII wrote...
To Bioware, stop geth hunters from firing while staggered, rocket troopers from double firing rockets, pyros are armored, you should be able to hear them coming. Stop Primes from throwing turrets through walls and limit them to one. These changes are necessary to make them less "cheap". These are no brainers. To community, play better, fixes aren't instant.
The ones I highlighted are the ones I really want addressed as well.
#104
Posté 08 octobre 2012 - 06:40
N7 Whiskey
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Chris, there are three major issues with Geth that make them unplayable many of us.
1. Pyros: apparently so heavy a Krogan can't pull them over low cover and smash thier face into an oily pulp, yet we cant hear them approach. Then of course you just instantly die because damage of the flamethrower has you down to 2 bars of health before you know you are on fire but its already too late to kill them or get away. The fire damage and animation need to be the same since we can't feel the heat.
2. Hunters: Their Cloak makes them immune to all melee attacks which is a huge problem for characters with less mobility. Being cloaked shouldn't mean incorporeal (SP?) as is the case when a pissed of Krogan runs directly at them but pass right through the Hunter (Imake same point with Cerberus smoke). Also the Hunters should not be able to fire while affected by any power that renders enemies helpless (Stasis/Carnage with EVO 3/Submiion Net/Singularity/Pull).
3. Primes: Its all about the "Pets". The Prime is already a TANK with the most feared weapon (Pulse Cannon) and has by far the most deadly and fear support in Hunters/Pyros/Rocket Troopers; so why does he need 3 turrets that drop your shields in a single burst and now a Seek & Stagger attack drone? This is overkill and not even slightly fun to deal with.
Overall the difficulty of the Geth is set to Cheap instead of Challenging. I don't want it to be easy, I want a worthy challenge. None of us like going around a corner and having zero chance because a cloaked hunter staggers you while a pyro burns you out. All we ask is that we be able to defend ourselves so that we can use creative tactics to defeat these demons rather than sitting behind cover spamming two powers for 33 minutes at a time.
I don't know if the Geth changes were made to stop/slow farming but to most of us that is what it feels like. Sadly it doesn't and won't affect them. It only affects those of us who like to mix up strategis and adapt on the fly, and there are waaaaaaay more of us than there are of them.
1. Pyros: apparently so heavy a Krogan can't pull them over low cover and smash thier face into an oily pulp, yet we cant hear them approach. Then of course you just instantly die because damage of the flamethrower has you down to 2 bars of health before you know you are on fire but its already too late to kill them or get away. The fire damage and animation need to be the same since we can't feel the heat.
2. Hunters: Their Cloak makes them immune to all melee attacks which is a huge problem for characters with less mobility. Being cloaked shouldn't mean incorporeal (SP?) as is the case when a pissed of Krogan runs directly at them but pass right through the Hunter (Imake same point with Cerberus smoke). Also the Hunters should not be able to fire while affected by any power that renders enemies helpless (Stasis/Carnage with EVO 3/Submiion Net/Singularity/Pull).
3. Primes: Its all about the "Pets". The Prime is already a TANK with the most feared weapon (Pulse Cannon) and has by far the most deadly and fear support in Hunters/Pyros/Rocket Troopers; so why does he need 3 turrets that drop your shields in a single burst and now a Seek & Stagger attack drone? This is overkill and not even slightly fun to deal with.
Overall the difficulty of the Geth is set to Cheap instead of Challenging. I don't want it to be easy, I want a worthy challenge. None of us like going around a corner and having zero chance because a cloaked hunter staggers you while a pyro burns you out. All we ask is that we be able to defend ourselves so that we can use creative tactics to defeat these demons rather than sitting behind cover spamming two powers for 33 minutes at a time.
I don't know if the Geth changes were made to stop/slow farming but to most of us that is what it feels like. Sadly it doesn't and won't affect them. It only affects those of us who like to mix up strategis and adapt on the fly, and there are waaaaaaay more of us than there are of them.
#105
Guest_lightsnow13_*
Posté 08 octobre 2012 - 06:46
Guest_lightsnow13_*
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I never knew there was such a HUGE issue with the geth. I mean, I never liked them. Ever. But they still feel pretty much the same to me - maybe slightly harder..but pretty much the same.
With that said, I would totally love to see the whole geth turret/no cooldown thing be addressed. Staggers..lets just not get staggered as much and I'd be fine. Everything pretty much staggers. Rockets to the face, shotguns to the face, missiles to the face. Couldn't we just tone it down a tad..
With that said, I would totally love to see the whole geth turret/no cooldown thing be addressed. Staggers..lets just not get staggered as much and I'd be fine. Everything pretty much staggers. Rockets to the face, shotguns to the face, missiles to the face. Couldn't we just tone it down a tad..
#106
Posté 08 octobre 2012 - 06:48
Star fury
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thatdude90210 wrote...
Of course they are listening, that's why they added more stunlock.
#107
Posté 08 octobre 2012 - 06:49
Tacoking85
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"What did the hunter say to the rocket trooper after being nerfed?"
"I'm gethin outta here!"
It's been a long day
"I'm gethin outta here!"
It's been a long day
#108
Posté 08 octobre 2012 - 06:54
Shepard VI
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Geth are difficult? I wasn't aware...
#109
Posté 08 octobre 2012 - 06:54
Lynx7725
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For the benefit of Bioware Devs, here's some thoughts about the Geth.
I play mostly on Bronze, and even there, Geth is something rather... annoying.. tiresome... irritating to fight against. Geth is reputedly in lore to be perhaps the best heavy infantry force and it does show so at least in Bronze. The primary source of this, IMO, is the Geth mid-tier units.
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One key factor is that the Geth mid-tier units has very good synergistic tendencies. Rocket Troopers to provide quick cover fire for other units. Pyros closes the range under rocket fire to use cover-ignoring weapons. Hunters use their speed and cloak to flank and infiltrate enemy positions. Take away any one element and the synergy drops tremendously. The trio just covers the bases a bit too well for anything other than the use of overwhelming firepower to work.
Suggestion: Lower the RoF of the Rocket Troopers, shorten the range of Pyros, lower the shield strength of Hunters. The former makes Geth infantry advances less threatening, the middle gives a bit more respite to the relentless Geth advance, and the third gives better chances to remove the cloaking ability.
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Another factor is the Geth do not panic as readily as other forces. Being synthetic, that is perhaps understandable as electronic platform need not worry so much about being set on fire or warped. Moreover, mid-tier Geth all have some form of protection, either in shields or armour; some powers are simply ignored when shielded or armoured, this makes taking down mid-tiers more difficult. Pyros in particular is pretty bad, as it has both shields and armour. Only the Atlas has this, and that's a hunking huge target. No other mid-tier boss has this (Engineer, Nemesis, Guardians, nope; Ravager, Brute, nope.)
In addition, Geth seems to have a better dodge rate than other units. Reaper noticably don't dodge. Cerberus do, but at a less rate. All this adds up. It takes noticable longer to reduce the Geth mid-tiers; even with the fuel tank vulnerability of the Pyro, relying on that to kill Pyros takes too long. Every second you leave a mid-tier Geth alive is to invite pain.
Suggestion: Reduce dodge rate? Maybe make Pyro armoured only, with higher armour health to compensate. The Pyro is an armoured assault unit, while it does make sense to tech up and shield a unit like this, the combination is particularly galling.
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Finally, a problem I see is that the basic Geth trooper and the high end Geth Prime is noticeably... not great. Geth troopers are dangerous in numbers, but without grenades, not really capable of digging entrenched players out -- both Cerberus and Reapers can use grenades to move players out from cover. Without some form of threat or knockback ability, Geth Troopers are not very noticeable (unless you're floored, then you get very concerned when Troopers race to stomp you.
Geth Prime, on the other hand, is.... bland. Yes, its cannon is annoying, but I put a wall between me and him and that's it. The turret is annoying, but can be handled. The Ball is just giving me XP. I get excited to see the Prime because he's 1000+XP worth when, not if, I take it down.
Suggestion: IF the mid-tiers are reduced, then the Geth Troopers should be upgraded a bit. Maybe some sort of EMP grenade -- knockback is a bit overkill. Perhaps a smoke analog.
Geth Prime should be upgraded to befit its "hub" status. Its presence on the map should buff Geth units, in a way that is visible. Perhaps a visual effect to all Geth in bonus range (ominous red glow, maybe?), with a mechanical effect of better accuracy, better detection, better detection comms. This presumes a downgrade of the mid-tier, such that the Geth Prime's presence would improve their performance. This play to the in-lore part about Geth getting smarter as more of them get into network range -- a Geth Prime is a hub unit, other Geth units linked into it should get better/ smarter. Gives me a reason to quickly nuke a Prime into its constituent parts.
My 2 credits.
I play mostly on Bronze, and even there, Geth is something rather... annoying.. tiresome... irritating to fight against. Geth is reputedly in lore to be perhaps the best heavy infantry force and it does show so at least in Bronze. The primary source of this, IMO, is the Geth mid-tier units.
----------------
One key factor is that the Geth mid-tier units has very good synergistic tendencies. Rocket Troopers to provide quick cover fire for other units. Pyros closes the range under rocket fire to use cover-ignoring weapons. Hunters use their speed and cloak to flank and infiltrate enemy positions. Take away any one element and the synergy drops tremendously. The trio just covers the bases a bit too well for anything other than the use of overwhelming firepower to work.
Suggestion: Lower the RoF of the Rocket Troopers, shorten the range of Pyros, lower the shield strength of Hunters. The former makes Geth infantry advances less threatening, the middle gives a bit more respite to the relentless Geth advance, and the third gives better chances to remove the cloaking ability.
----------------
Another factor is the Geth do not panic as readily as other forces. Being synthetic, that is perhaps understandable as electronic platform need not worry so much about being set on fire or warped. Moreover, mid-tier Geth all have some form of protection, either in shields or armour; some powers are simply ignored when shielded or armoured, this makes taking down mid-tiers more difficult. Pyros in particular is pretty bad, as it has both shields and armour. Only the Atlas has this, and that's a hunking huge target. No other mid-tier boss has this (Engineer, Nemesis, Guardians, nope; Ravager, Brute, nope.)
In addition, Geth seems to have a better dodge rate than other units. Reaper noticably don't dodge. Cerberus do, but at a less rate. All this adds up. It takes noticable longer to reduce the Geth mid-tiers; even with the fuel tank vulnerability of the Pyro, relying on that to kill Pyros takes too long. Every second you leave a mid-tier Geth alive is to invite pain.
Suggestion: Reduce dodge rate? Maybe make Pyro armoured only, with higher armour health to compensate. The Pyro is an armoured assault unit, while it does make sense to tech up and shield a unit like this, the combination is particularly galling.
----------------
Finally, a problem I see is that the basic Geth trooper and the high end Geth Prime is noticeably... not great. Geth troopers are dangerous in numbers, but without grenades, not really capable of digging entrenched players out -- both Cerberus and Reapers can use grenades to move players out from cover. Without some form of threat or knockback ability, Geth Troopers are not very noticeable (unless you're floored, then you get very concerned when Troopers race to stomp you.
Geth Prime, on the other hand, is.... bland. Yes, its cannon is annoying, but I put a wall between me and him and that's it. The turret is annoying, but can be handled. The Ball is just giving me XP. I get excited to see the Prime because he's 1000+XP worth when, not if, I take it down.
Suggestion: IF the mid-tiers are reduced, then the Geth Troopers should be upgraded a bit. Maybe some sort of EMP grenade -- knockback is a bit overkill. Perhaps a smoke analog.
Geth Prime should be upgraded to befit its "hub" status. Its presence on the map should buff Geth units, in a way that is visible. Perhaps a visual effect to all Geth in bonus range (ominous red glow, maybe?), with a mechanical effect of better accuracy, better detection, better detection comms. This presumes a downgrade of the mid-tier, such that the Geth Prime's presence would improve their performance. This play to the in-lore part about Geth getting smarter as more of them get into network range -- a Geth Prime is a hub unit, other Geth units linked into it should get better/ smarter. Gives me a reason to quickly nuke a Prime into its constituent parts.
My 2 credits.
#110
Posté 08 octobre 2012 - 06:55
rtbh99
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Tacoking85 wrote...
"What did the hunter say to the rocket trooper after being nerfed?"
"I'm gethin outta here!"
It's been a long day
2 hunters, a pyro and a prime walk into a bar
the bar gets stunlocked
#111
Posté 08 octobre 2012 - 06:56
Rifneno
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rtbh99 wrote...
Tacoking85 wrote...
"What did the hunter say to the rocket trooper after being nerfed?"
"I'm gethin outta here!"
It's been a long day
2 hunters, a pyro and a prime walk into a bar
the bar gets stunlocked
10/10.
#112
Posté 08 octobre 2012 - 07:00
sobit
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I actually don't find the Geth that overpowered. But I have to admit that in a Geth match, I would camp a lot more than in a Reaper/Cerberus match.The ranged attacks of the Geth are so obtrusive and just insane. Some things that irritate me:
- The Geth Prime shots home in. I feel it would be a huge improvement if they would just go straight, so you can dodge them, effectively decreasing the Primes ranged pushy-ness.
- When a geth hunter breaks from cloak to attack, in most cases someone is going to die. Of course it's a good substitute for a sync kill, but why don't you just give him a oneshot kill gun, instead of one that needs 3 shots, which all are going to hit anyway. Just decrease the ROF, so one can react between the shots/staggers.
Other than that, I think you did a good job with the geth. I don't know if it's intentional, but they just have the strongest ranged attacks, and that forces you to camp/stay in cover very much.
- The Geth Prime shots home in. I feel it would be a huge improvement if they would just go straight, so you can dodge them, effectively decreasing the Primes ranged pushy-ness.
- When a geth hunter breaks from cloak to attack, in most cases someone is going to die. Of course it's a good substitute for a sync kill, but why don't you just give him a oneshot kill gun, instead of one that needs 3 shots, which all are going to hit anyway. Just decrease the ROF, so one can react between the shots/staggers.
Other than that, I think you did a good job with the geth. I don't know if it's intentional, but they just have the strongest ranged attacks, and that forces you to camp/stay in cover very much.
Modifié par sobit, 08 octobre 2012 - 07:11 .
#113
Posté 08 octobre 2012 - 07:01
mbergeron468
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IndoctrinatedSpectre wrote...
Geth are difficult? I wasn't aware...
This. The geth do have some cheap attacks, but they are handled easily with energy drain and overload and disruptor ammo rips through them. They are not any more difficult then the other two factions and there is no sync kill to worry about.
#114
Posté 08 octobre 2012 - 07:06
Lynx7725
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It's ok if you know you are going to fight against Geth. I agree that if you do know, you can prep adequately against them and it's noticably easier.mbergeron468 wrote...
IndoctrinatedSpectre wrote...
Geth are difficult? I wasn't aware...
This. The geth do have some cheap attacks, but they are handled easily with energy drain and overload and disruptor ammo rips through them. They are not any more difficult then the other two factions and there is no sync kill to worry about.
However, random PUG with random enemy ending up with Geth can be tiresome.
#115
Posté 08 octobre 2012 - 07:10
rtbh99
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Lynx7725 wrote...
It's ok if you know you are going to fight against Geth. I agree that if you do know, you can prep adequately against them and it's noticably easier.mbergeron468 wrote...
IndoctrinatedSpectre wrote...
Geth are difficult? I wasn't aware...
This. The geth do have some cheap attacks, but they are handled easily with energy drain and overload and disruptor ammo rips through them. They are not any more difficult then the other two factions and there is no sync kill to worry about.
However, random PUG with random enemy ending up with Geth can be tiresome.
fun fact: if you are in a u/u lobby and someone has chosen to play as a fury, you will have a 100% chance to fight the geth and can plan accordingly
#116
Posté 08 octobre 2012 - 07:24
36812180234
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Well, I personally hate only Phantoms. How I am supposed to kill them when my cobras are over is still a mystery for me. All the other foes are fun.
#117
Posté 08 octobre 2012 - 07:24
Big Jack Shepard
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BuckshotSamurai wrote...
Chris, there are three major issues with Geth that make them unplayable many of us.
1. Pyros: apparently so heavy a Krogan can't pull them over low cover and smash thier face into an oily pulp, yet we cant hear them approach. Then of course you just instantly die because damage of the flamethrower has you down to 2 bars of health before you know you are on fire but its already too late to kill them or get away. The fire damage and animation need to be the same since we can't feel the heat.
2. Hunters: Their Cloak makes them immune to all melee attacks which is a huge problem for characters with less mobility. Being cloaked shouldn't mean incorporeal (SP?) as is the case when a pissed of Krogan runs directly at them but pass right through the Hunter (Imake same point with Cerberus smoke). Also the Hunters should not be able to fire while affected by any power that renders enemies helpless (Stasis/Carnage with EVO 3/Submiion Net/Singularity/Pull).
3. Primes: Its all about the "Pets". The Prime is already a TANK with the most feared weapon (Pulse Cannon) and has by far the most deadly and fear support in Hunters/Pyros/Rocket Troopers; so why does he need 3 turrets that drop your shields in a single burst and now a Seek & Stagger attack drone? This is overkill and not even slightly fun to deal with.
Overall the difficulty of the Geth is set to Cheap instead of Challenging. I don't want it to be easy, I want a worthy challenge. None of us like going around a corner and having zero chance because a cloaked hunter staggers you while a pyro burns you out. All we ask is that we be able to defend ourselves so that we can use creative tactics to defeat these demons rather than sitting behind cover spamming two powers for 33 minutes at a time.
I don't know if the Geth changes were made to stop/slow farming but to most of us that is what it feels like. Sadly it doesn't and won't affect them. It only affects those of us who like to mix up strategis and adapt on the fly, and there are waaaaaaay more of us than there are of them.
I was just about to say this.
Ninja'd!
#118
Posté 08 octobre 2012 - 07:27
mbergeron468
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rtbh99 wrote...
Lynx7725 wrote...
It's ok if you know you are going to fight against Geth. I agree that if you do know, you can prep adequately against them and it's noticably easier.mbergeron468 wrote...
IndoctrinatedSpectre wrote...
Geth are difficult? I wasn't aware...
This. The geth do have some cheap attacks, but they are handled easily with energy drain and overload and disruptor ammo rips through them. They are not any more difficult then the other two factions and there is no sync kill to worry about.
However, random PUG with random enemy ending up with Geth can be tiresome.
fun fact: if you are in a u/u lobby and someone has chosen to play as a fury, you will have a 100% chance to fight the geth and can plan accordingly
Even if it is unknown and you don't have any powers that are the best for geth they are still an easy opponent. The prime is the only thing that may cause problems and that is from the craz amount of turrets it spawns and now the drone can stun with AoE.
#119
Posté 08 octobre 2012 - 07:29
Big Jack Shepard
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IndoctrinatedSpectre wrote...
Geth are difficult? I wasn't aware...
Well then, you might want to take your head out of...uh...
#120
Posté 08 octobre 2012 - 07:34
snarf001
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Common problems I found with the Geth before and after patch are:
Shooting through walls and around corners before they are visible. I had this happened again recently and wanted to make sure it wasn't lag based so I stood behind a wall for around 30 secs and a prime on the other side across the map tried to shoot me, some shots hit the wall but some went through.
Primes deploying turrets out of their line of sight
All units can still shoot at you even while they are stunned or knocked back
Rocket Troopers firing mulitple rockets at once
Geth have an constant target lock on you and leaving cover for a split second, shots that they could have fired actually hits you. Primes and Rocket Troopers are the biggest offenders.
While enemy stuns is a good thing but it happens too often to the point of chaining. It needs to be curbed down a little.
If these things were remedied and replaced with a larger pool of health/armour/shileds or something to give them an edge, I would consider geth to be fun to play against.
Shooting through walls and around corners before they are visible. I had this happened again recently and wanted to make sure it wasn't lag based so I stood behind a wall for around 30 secs and a prime on the other side across the map tried to shoot me, some shots hit the wall but some went through.
Primes deploying turrets out of their line of sight
All units can still shoot at you even while they are stunned or knocked back
Rocket Troopers firing mulitple rockets at once
Geth have an constant target lock on you and leaving cover for a split second, shots that they could have fired actually hits you. Primes and Rocket Troopers are the biggest offenders.
While enemy stuns is a good thing but it happens too often to the point of chaining. It needs to be curbed down a little.
If these things were remedied and replaced with a larger pool of health/armour/shileds or something to give them an edge, I would consider geth to be fun to play against.
Modifié par snarf001, 08 octobre 2012 - 07:36 .
#121
Posté 08 octobre 2012 - 07:34
Roobz82
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mbergeron468 wrote...
IndoctrinatedSpectre wrote...
Geth are difficult? I wasn't aware...
This. The geth do have some cheap attacks, but they are handled easily with energy drain and overload and disruptor ammo rips through them. They are not any more difficult then the other two factions and there is no sync kill to worry about.
I find geth difficult. I mostly play U/U/S and so I can't spec for them. I'm not a super regular player (nor am I a superb player). IMO the farmers are getting punished for practicing a non-sporting meta-game. It is at bronze level that the difficulty increase is the most noticeable.
#122
Posté 08 octobre 2012 - 07:46
nbiscuitz
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to me, pyros are pretty much their instant kill unit. there is absolutely not enough time to run away. they are like throwing s**t at you and knock you unconcious with the smell. especially with the "awesome" p2p connection lag.
also bw if you are reading, can we please be invincible during the "getup" animation from being revived?
also bw if you are reading, can we please be invincible during the "getup" animation from being revived?
#123
Posté 08 octobre 2012 - 07:48
BiO
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Just revert Geth to their launch days status, while retaining Prime drone's Incinerate and pyros cant being grabbed. And, obviously, fix all the glitches like Geth Hunters shooting while staggered, immobile, and Rocket Troopers shooting several rockets at once.
Perhaps also nerf the range of the Prime cannon a little bit?
Perhaps also nerf the range of the Prime cannon a little bit?
Modifié par BiO_MaN, 08 octobre 2012 - 07:49 .
#124
Posté 08 octobre 2012 - 08:22
Badpanzer
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Primes should have a cooldown for throwing out turrets,Hunters should not have powers passing through them when cloaked and a good deal less stunlock all round thank you 
#125
Posté 08 octobre 2012 - 08:33
SMBTheExile
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Just a word for all you MP Gods out there - 'play better' doesn't really work, because there's so little opportunity to improve against Geth due to their cheapness giving all the units bar the trooper instakill in all but name and animation. Their cheating means it's virtually impossible to do anything but camp on Gold and above if you're not certain classes.
However, I don't necessarily think they need nerfing - My suggestion would be to fix the glaring cheats they have and see how it goes. I don't mind games being difficult at all, the bigger challenge the better, but it's disheartening to play when you know the odds are stacked against you regardless of your contribution.
Oh - and a big tank of liquid with a primer flame constantly lit MUST make some kind of sound.
However, I don't necessarily think they need nerfing - My suggestion would be to fix the glaring cheats they have and see how it goes. I don't mind games being difficult at all, the bigger challenge the better, but it's disheartening to play when you know the odds are stacked against you regardless of your contribution.
Oh - and a big tank of liquid with a primer flame constantly lit MUST make some kind of sound.
Modifié par SMBTheExile, 08 octobre 2012 - 08:35 .
