289 réponses à ce sujet

[Grunt_Platform]

With a thought about what could actually be done to balance the faction without requiring another patch (it's bad but I doubt it's bad enough to warrant the effort)...

EDIT: Actually, instead of telling you guys what to do, I'll just list my views:

• With their pets now fully functional, Geth Primes are some of the most punishing enemies in the game. The effect is pretty laughable on tight maps like Glacier, or when you can minimize their firing angles (like on White), but on most maps three Geth Primes feels like overkill.
• Geth Turrets are just way way too powerful for the level of warning they give. They can snipe through tiny holes, and kill players quickly. And if you kill one, it's replaced by another almost instantly.
• Geth Pyros would be fine but... if you're ever under fire from one when you don't have much health, you're pretty SOL, since they fire through cover, and have extreme range and damage. Feels like if nothing else, their damage can be tweaked some.
• Geth Hunters are fine 90% of the time. The issue is when you either get cornered by a gang of them, or snared by one while running from something else. Since it's damn near impossible to dodge their attacks, and stagger doesn't work, this usually means you're pinned in place and killed before you can even regain control.
• The geth attacks that can cause screen shake and stagger needs some heavy reconsidering. Even with moderate lag, they can completely remove player control without even hitting the player.

I would like the idea of the Geth Prime's health and wave cost being rebalanced to be a bit more of a fragile threat, but that's just the thought that hits me.

...And why does our version of the Geth Pulse Rifle have such pitiful DPS? It's outclassed by almost every other gun at its weight.

Modifié par EvanKester, 08 octobre 2012 - 09:07 .

[Samerandomscreennameidontcareabout]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Geth Infiltrator or Engineer using a GPR with Warp ammo, Targeting VI and Densified Ammunition will chew through infantry with it.

A GIJoe soloes Platinum with an automatic toothpick, If need be. This is not an argument. *rolleyes*

[klokked]

EvanKester wrote...

With a thought about what could actually be done to balance the faction without requiring another patch (it's bad but I doubt it's bad enough to warrant the effort)...

Geth Primes
They are massive massive threats now. Their pets and their weapons are among the most dangerous in the game. Since you can have three primes on the battlefield at once, and each one is a massively threatening damage sponge, they can easily overwhelm teams lacking hard counters to Primes.
- Reduce maximum number of Primes from 3 to 2 again.
- Reduce Prime Shields and Armor.
- Significantly reduce wave cost for Primes (60~80 range?).
- Either drastically expand the spawn interval for Geth Turrets, or reduce their damage.
- Combat drone is dangerous, but fine.
* Net result: Geth Primes stop trying to be the same as an Atlas, and mesh with the rest of the Geth strategy better. By being made more fragile, but also less expensive, Geth Primes become more similar to Phantoms and Ravagers: They're high priority targets, capable of wiping out teams on their own, but easily dispatched if targeted early.

Geth Hunter
Geth Hunters are actually almost fine, except when they attack in groups or snare an already injured player, who's forced to stand still while their controls stop working.. They're disproportionately threatening to mobile players, and their immunity to all crowd control is extremely obnoxious.
- Increase delay before and between shots.
- Reduce or remove stagger effect.

Geth Pyros
There's only two real problems with Pyros, and I only know for sure that one of them can be fixed without a patch:
- Reduce Pyro flamethrower damage.
- If possible, reduce range slightly and reduce damage less.

It's kind of sad. I know you guys put a lot of work into the geth faction, but some thing just went wrong. If the geth were working as they were apparently designed, they would be a really really fun faction to fight, but a series of bugs and strange interactions with lag has just made them tedious and unusually punishing.

...And since someone brought up the Geth Pulse Rifle. That thing needs a serious buff. When the geth enemies use it, it's a serious weapon. When we use it.. it's strictly inferior to almost every other alternative, even in its low weight class (contrast with: Hurricane, Hornet, Tempest, Carnifex, Arc Pistol etc...)

My biggest problem I have with Primes is their little turret. They throw it perfectly behind our cover and blast me in the ass, and the damage on those turrets is ludicrous.
Geth Hunters, as you said, have a BS stagger. Not only that but they can still shoot you when they're staggered. So. That's my beef.
Your suggestion for pyros is on the money. I'd also like for them to stop melting me through my cover. That'd be wonderful.
Those rocket troopers are pests. especially when, while lifted or in singularity or even staggered, they rapid-fire missiles with pin-point accuracy.

[78stonewobble]

Well yesterday I did a single unknown geth gold. Ended up with hydra. I think I was the only one who used any consumable thingymajiks.

It was quite hard for us (but we/i weren't that good). The others did screw up the spawns quite a bit. However better players should have an easier time (as it should be).

Hmm I tend to agree that pyros should make some sound. The flames should fit the animation. Hunters shouldn't fire while staggered and primeshots shouldn't curve as much.

I didn't really run into that stuff in my game but just from... well a logical maybe fairness perspective.

From my gethgineer perspective. My turret should have a better colour to distinguish it from the primes. Overload seems somewhat inconsistent in "stunning" and most annoyingly for me.

How hard it is to target the hunters with overload. If there is 1 hunter you just point and decloak him. If there is anything else on the screen the target reticle appears and it jumps to that.

It's not that I didn't see the hunter... Or that I didn't prioritise the hunter over the slow pyro or even that I didn't aim at the hunter. The game just didn't want me to hit him.

[Grunt_Platform]

klokked wrote...
My biggest problem I have with Primes is their little turret. They throw it perfectly behind our cover and blast me in the ass, and the damage on those turrets is ludicrous.
Geth Hunters, as you said, have a BS stagger. Not only that but they can still shoot you when they're staggered. So. That's my beef.
Your suggestion for pyros is on the money. I'd also like for them to stop melting me through my cover. That'd be wonderful.
Those rocket troopers are pests. especially when, while lifted or in singularity or even staggered, they rapid-fire missiles with pin-point accuracy.

Hah whups. I'd changed my mind about tossing those suggestions out like the Balance All the Things group (I'm sure I'll like BioWare's eventual solution...) ...I'm still rather fond of my Geth Prime idea 

I don't know if they can change Pyros firing through cover without a patch or not. It seems like it's just the angle they fire at relative ot the cover. If it did a bit less damag It'd be cool

I don't think anything can be done for Geth CC immunity without a major patch, so I just hope it can be designed around, by minimizing its occurrence. Reducing the firing rate of geth and rocket troopers, and increasing their aim delay might help.

Modifié par EvanKester, 08 octobre 2012 - 09:14 .

[banans_huligans]

I am really annoyed when hunters/rocket troopers fire when they should be staggered or affected by things like ed/ol/stasis etc..
And the prime curved shots :@

[Anduin The Grey]

I say fix the cheating Geth and then make 'em tougher, cheap as they are I like 'em

[Crusader75]

Primes should have a longer time between shots to give us a chance to get into cover. I find that once the first shot connects, I'm stunned for the follow-up 2 shots with absolutely no way to get into cover, which usually just means I'll be down for the count. Same thing happens when I get stun-locked by Hunters. Either remove the stun or reduce their ROF.

[Grotaiche]

A couple of suggestions as fixes (sorry if they have already been brought up) :

• Limit the Primes vision and/or range. They should not be able to shoot cross map on large maps like Giant, Rio or Hydra with the precision of a sniper with 3 stunning homing shots.
• Reduce the Pyros' range of fire.
• Hunters should be hittable with heavy melee while cloaked. Currently, it is impossible to heavy melee them when they are cloaked ; even if you seemingly hit them they just don't take any damage.
• Increase the Hunter's Tactical Cloak cooldown (this can be an alternative to previous point).
• Rocket Troopers should not be able to fire "from their ass" i.e. they should finish their turning/dodging/whatever animation BEFORE being allowed to fire.
• Also, Hunters should not be able to fire while incapacitated (e.g. Pulled, Singularity'd, Stasises, etc...)
• Rocket Troopers must not be able to shoot more than one rocket per shot i.e. fix the "multiple rockets" glitch.

Only then can we start talking about balancing other stuff like damage/health/stun force/etc...

Modifié par Grotaiche, 08 octobre 2012 - 09:19 .

[Quibii]

I actually had that happen yesterday, regarding the Rocker Trooper. It was aiming at my teammate, next thing I know, the rocket shoots out of it's shoulder and prepares me for the Pyro.

Geth Primes are not so bad to me. They're manageable, though difficult nonetheless. As mentioned before, the main problem with them is their infinite number of turrets and combat drones. It's not until I'm near death that I see the turret behind me. The combat drones mostly flush me out of cover, to give the Prime a target to shoot. I can live with the combat drone, but the turret is becoming more and more annoying.

I can't really make much of a valid argument against Rocket Troopers, other than their homing missiles. They're not really as much of a pain as other enemies, though. In my opinion, anyway.

Geth Pyros are a pain, almost as much as the Geth Hunter. For one, it's range isn't much to laugh at. Another thing is, which is the problem I have with it, is when it starts to burn you, I find my class moving slower, which gives the Pyro more time to light up my character like a Christmas tree. As someone else said, reducing the damage, or range would help a lot.

Now the main problem; Geth Hunters. Their damage, for one, is nothing to be messed with, taking down shields in two hits. It's even worse when they come from behind, since they'll take down your shields, then before you can either kill it, or run, there goes the shot, and you go down. If I had a nickel for everytime I was downed from that, I would be swimming in money. The stun lock is nothing less than hell on earth. At least, that's what most others seem to think. I have to agree with them, this time. Now if the stun lock was "weakened" in a way, such as the character merely flinching slightly, they might have a better chance to take it down before the third shot, because let's face it; The first two shots are near automatic.

Anyway, my ranting is finished. I can live with the Geth faction as it is, but as you can tell from the multiple threads, and contributors, the Geth are easily hated.

[Impulse and Compulse]

The Hunter annoy me the most, since energy drain seems to not work on them, as they often take my shields out right away, and then the next shot hits before I can get another shot off.

[HusarX]

Good thread but I don't think that BW is listening. There were 12987 "anti-geth-stunlock" threads before the patch. And what we've got in the patch ? A new Geth unit that can stunlock U - Prime's Troll Drone.

[nicethugbert]

The larger problem for me is the lack of options in this game. If Geth Cheese and Reaper Whine were 2 factions among many, or if there were more game modes, more options, then I would not care.

But as it stands right now, there is only cerberus worth playing.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 08 octobre 2012 - 09:30 .

[Witchfinder]

I keep saying this: dial them back a little, and give them grenades to winkle out the campers/farmers

[Misfiring]

Geth Rocket Trooper

- Easy. Give them Nemesis AI. Nemesis doesn't have double/triple shot problems. Rocket troopers should aim for one second before fire, just like Nemesis, except those missiles will track you so its deadlier.

Geth Hunter

- Again easy. Make them charge before every shot. This effectively reduce their ROF without making them inferior and useless. They'll still stun with every hit but now they have to charge first. Its easy to implement and it gets rid of the permanent stunlock problem. As for their GPS can fire when they're stunned, it goes for player's GPS too so its a mechanism problem. To fix it just use Acolyte's code on hunter's GPS so they can't shoot without charging first.

Geth Pyro

- They're mostly fine, just make everybody happy and reduce their range, and give them an actual magazine so they stop for a few seconds to reload, rather than a permanent, mobile flamethrower that locks you in cover forcing you to pray that someone come and kill it before a hunter comes. A small reduce in damage is also welcomed so you at least can do something before you die in Gold.

Geth Prime

- I think their attacks need to be reworked. A triple stun attack is just unfair. An Atlas does the same thing without the stun, which it uses periodically in the form of rocket. Yes the Atlas is tougher and has instant-kill and stomp, but how often do people see those? They're there mostly as wow factor to showcase their supremacy rather than giving them an unfair advantage, which is what happens for Geth Prime, especially now that they can stun more with the new stun drone.

- Permanent stun Primes and premanent stun Hunters are the very reason many players prefer to camp when fighting geth, because there's no other way to counter stuns. Thus, a rework for Prime attack is needed. Here's my suggestion: Make it fire 20 shots in rapid succession, each does little damage and without stun, then after it finishes, it can deploy those drones and/or starts charging a powerful AOE pulse that stuns (without the tracking since its AOE).

- This way, Primes no longer perma-stun players while making them no less deadly because 20 rapid fire shots will go through player shield and health gates, but without the stuns in the way players can actually escape or heal or dodge, rather than helplessly taking hits.

Hope my idea is helpful.

PS: I know this is out of topic but I hate Creberus Turrets the most, even more than prema-stuns. They're easily the most deadly enemy in the whole game.

Modifié par Misfiring, 08 octobre 2012 - 10:30 .

[sareth_65536]

Epique Phael767 wrote...
bursts that will curve around and through some walls

lag

Epique Phael767 wrote...
but they still ruin your games by using their infini-turrets. 

these turrets just create some pre-defined points in the map that you should try to avoid

Epique Phael767 wrote...
 They need a decreased clip-size 

wait, clip decrease? from 2 to 1, lol?

etm125 wrote...
 But the new drone stun-- wtf? 

starting from tuesday, I've been hit by this drone attack exactly three times through all the geth matches I had, and none of them were fbw. How does this can ruin anything?

[pantherdan]

Its a dose of reality. Use cover. "farm".

I don't fear Geth. I fear Phantoms and Banshees.

[Bleachrude]

Wow...so many people want easy mode...

Of course cerebus is popular...it's the EASIEST faction to beat. ...You're playing godmode unless there's multiple phantoms/turrets on the fields. Turning the rocket trooper into a Nemesis? Again, nemesis are a waste of the wave budget and the bloody basic assault trooper is deadlier.

[Barneyk]

Chris Schanche wrote...

We're listening. We've made a few comments lately that we are aware that Geth are not the most fun right now, and that we're planning adjustments but haven't decided what those will be yet.

I actually kinda like Geth, they are a bit annoying but in a good way.
There are some classes that just doesn't work against Geth I guess and that is what makes them so bad, but all the kits I usually use with them are doing just fine.

I am on PC, I don't know if that makes any difference?

[DAMASCUS_MAXIMUS]

From being the favorite whipping boys in ME3 MP, the Geth have "evolved" into the most despised enemy faction!
And I agree that the Geth stun-chaining and 2-rocket combos are annoyingly cheap.

Modifié par DAMASCUS_MAXIMUS, 08 octobre 2012 - 10:54 .

[Master Shiori]

Biggest problem with the Geth is the sheer amount of staggers they can throw your way. Pair up 2 Primes with combat drones out with 3 rocket troopers and watch the players struggle to simply move in any direction, let alone fight back.

Geth rocket troopers fire missiles like they're bullets from an SMG or an assault rifle with a guidance system to boot, so you cannot even dodge them. Oh, and they fact they don't even need to aim or reload makes it even worse.

Geth Pyros have bigger range than their animation shows and the fact you cannot even grab them from cover makes the whole thing ridiculous. And the funny thing is this doesn't stop farming at all. It just forces the players to adjust their tactics a bit.

Simply fixing some of these ridiculous bugs would go a long way to getting the Geth in line with the other factions.

[Induhvidual]

Sihmm wrote...
Part of the problem with Geth is that a select few classes/loadouts make them hilariously easy, but most classes have to fight them uphill in the rain.  Both ways.  Carrying a sack of rocks.  And no shoes.

Yeah, I feel this is very true. Just did a Gold run with some PUGs with the Krogan Sentinel. Landed on Geth and man were they a cake walk. 2 of the players didn't even really do anything. I only died when my ability to fire my weapon and use powers and grenades was disabled. I'm guessing this is a new Geth ability implemented in the patch to add some edge to the faction. Wasn't too big a problem, just a little bit annoying as I had to suicide and revive in order to regain firing/power usage.

Squishier classes however, will have a lot less fun with Geth. You're forced to play a bit more conservatively, especially if you don't bring in consummables (ie: Cyclonic IV). Loadout actually counts vs the Geth and even moreso in Platinum.

[Anduin The Grey]

DAMASCUS_MAXIMUS wrote...

From being the favorite whipping boys in ME3 MP, the Geth have "evolved" into the most despised enemy faction!
And I agree that the Geth stun-chaining and 2-rocket combos are annoyingly cheap.

Bioware are just trying to subliminally convince you to choose the Destroy Ending!

The constant stagger which the Geth can cause is annoying but I always try not to get that close to them as for the Rcoket troopers themselves, I dunno how they fire off those rockets in such quick succession but if you are a long range character always prioritise these over Hunters and Hunters over Pyros when engaging in long range.

Also, I'm guessing players that say they have less trouble with the Geth have much better equipement and more experience with the Geth than those that do have problems. Their aggression is by far the most predictable and if giving a Rocket Trooper the same AI as the Nemesis then I disagree, I don't want some twitchy Rocket Trooper who hides half the match forcing me to hunt the last one down searching every corner.

EDIT:
As an afterthought, Rocket Troopers would be much much harder if they had the Nemesis AI, these are relatively easy, slow moving mobs that do not often take cover, they are also quite weak, making them easy kills for most characters.

Modifié par Anduin The Grey, 08 octobre 2012 - 11:05 .