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Liberty to Customize Companions


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#1
Guest_Nizaris1_*

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In DA:O i can set up companions the way i want. I can set up Alistair to use two handed weapons with Two Handed talents and not a tank, Leliana as Duelist and not an Archer as a tank, Morrigan as support healer, even as a tank Arcane Warrior and so on. I have liberty to play as i like, to bring who to dicth out who,. I can leave Alistair at the camp all the time and set up anyone as a tank for example.

But in DA2 every companions have been set up, i can't customize them other than what they are set up to be

Bethany- healer and nuker
Anders- healer and nuker, healer mostly because specialized in healing
Fenris - two handed weapon warrior
Carver - two handed weapon warrior
Aveline - weapon and shield tank
Meril - nuker tank
Isabella - dual dagger dps
Varric - ranged support

this make DA2 is super boring after some playthroughs. Let say, you need a healer in the set up, Bethany is gone in Act 2, you may ditch out Anders leave you with no healer at all. So you may keep Anders despite you hate him just because you need a healer in the party. Similar with Aveline, you bring her around from begining of the game to the end just because you need a tank in the set up. That is boring.

Please bring back the liberty to customize companions in DA3

Modifié par Nizaris1, 08 octobre 2012 - 06:46 .


#2
Iakus

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I was able to turn Fenris into a useful tank (at least on normal difficulty) It's not as easy and not as good a tank as Aveline, of course. But if you pick the right talents, it can be done.

#3
themikefest

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the one thing that bothered me in DA2 is the lack of customizing armor for the companions
I liked it better in DAO

#4
hexaligned

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iakus wrote...

I was able to turn Fenris into a useful tank (at least on normal difficulty) It's not as easy and not as good a tank as Aveline, of course. But if you pick the right talents, it can be done.


He works fine as a tank on Nightmare as well.  In ranged heavy parties anyways.  Personaly I want them to get rid of classes all together, and just have stat/skill based leveling, but I've wanted that since before DAO.

#5
scootermcgaffin

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You can still customize. For example, Isabela can be dps or you can set her up to be a dodge tank or off tank. Same with Fenris. Varric can be ranged support or you can pump his attack speed and have him do great dps. Bethany can be nuker, healer, or supporter/controller.

#6
Guest_Nizaris1_*

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Of course you may set up to do whatever in DA2, but it is limited. Aveline will NEVER use two handed weapon, Varric will NEVER use daggers, Fenris will NEVER use a shiled, and so on...their potential is limited

In DA:O Leliana may use a shiled, Alistair may use daggers, Zevran may use bow, Morrigan or Wayne may wear armor sword and shield, and so on...their potential are unlimited.

#7
Potato Cat

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I liked that some characters had some talent trees missing. Made them more special in my eyes. My only problem was that Merrill was unable to be a healer. Gameplay wise, for the same reason OP mentioned, but lore wise, she was Keeper Marethari's First and should probably know at least some healing skills because of that. If they do it for DA3, I'd like to see the basic talent tree, just with somethings added to make that companion's role stand out more, but still remain fairly free.

I'm fine with the weapons staying the same. Suits their character. You have to admit, Aveline is a Protector in every aspect of her personality so a sword/shield makes sense and Merrill with a two handed sword would quite frankly look ridiculous.

Varric weilds Bianca. END OF STORY

Modifié par Elfman, 08 octobre 2012 - 07:21 .


#8
Guest_Nizaris1_*

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why not open up every skill of the class and so we can customize our companions like DA:O. It is more fun and we can experiment with it. I think that is what making DA:O is loveable by fans. They still discussing builds for character and companions in DA:O forums. It have variety. Some prefer Leliana as Archer, some prefer her as dual wield rogue, some make her use shield and pure Rogue (fill up the whole Rogue talents), some make her a Bard/Assasin, some Bard/Duelist, some Bard/Ranger...see one character can be customized into many. In DA2 it is stiff.

#9
Sylvius the Mad

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I fully support this idea. It makes no sense at all that Fenris can't pick up a shield. After all, Sten could use a bow. The way DA2 worked is just another step in the wrong direction of having the PC and the other characters bound by different rules.

Also, I'd like it if the companions, when we meet them, have no talents pre-assigned, so we can set them up however we'd like. Sten makes an even better archer if you don't need to keep his 2H talents.

I modded this into both DAO and DA2, but I'd rather just have the option supported right out of the box. People who like the companions as they're designed can use them that way, but people who don't can change them. This is effectively what Obsidian is offering in the Adventurers' Hall for Project Eternity, but without the need of having actual different companions - we can use teh same companions in different ways.

There are so many aspects of DA2 that I hope were result of the short development schedule. The restrictive companion designs is one of them.

#10
daaaav

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Whilst I won't say that it didn't irritate me when companions were set up with completely useless talents in DAO... Morrigans shapeshifting and Zevrans lockpicking fail as examples, I actually liked Varric weilding Bianca and the way that each characters style and outfit reflected their personalities in DA2.

I don't understand why people need to customise everything about companions as in DAO and in my opinion, some of the characters identity is lost when you do. For example, none of the mage outfits really suited Morrigan and I honestly could not bring myself to put helmets on anyone but warriors!

Perhaps we could have a few outfits per character and an updgrade system that would let us tweak them to suit our playstyles.

#11
XCelfa

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I understand about the healer situation... I tried to ditch Anders while I was gaining Friendship with Fenris and it was awful. It would have been nice to be able to give Merrill one [just one] healing spell :c

#12
MillKill

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So long as they come with no ability or talent points preassigned, I'd be fine with DA2's system.

#13
Guest_Nizaris1_*

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Whilst I won't say that it didn't irritate me when companions were set up with completely useless talents in DAO... Morrigans shapeshifting and Zevrans lockpicking fail as examples, I actually liked Varric weilding Bianca and the way that each characters style and outfit reflected their personalities in DA2.

I don't understand why people need to customise everything about companions as in DAO and in my opinion, some of the characters identity is lost when you do. For example, none of the mage outfits really suited Morrigan and I honestly could not bring myself to put helmets on anyone but warriors!

Perhaps we could have a few outfits per character and an updgrade system that would let us tweak them to suit our playstyles.


You say Zevran lockpicking is failed, but if you ask Zevran why we need him he say "i can pick lock", so where is the basis saying it is a fail? Rogues can pick lock even without lockpicking talents, those talents just add bonus.

Character identity is not lost in my opinion, it being enriched. In fact I don't understand why Varric cannot use other than Bianca, Fenris cannot use one handed sword and so on. That is restriction.

In DA:O, Alistair identity is not lost using two handed weapon, there are Templars who use two handed weapons and in DA2 Templars using bow and daggers as well. Sten identity is not lost using bow, in DA2 there is a proof of Qunari bow existence. Mages can't wear armor? There is Arcane Warriors who wear armor, and the Warden who teach specialization after learn it from a spirit, even he/she is not a mage.

Morrigan outfit? I make her wear my apperentice Circle Mage robe or Enchanter robe for the illusion of she disguised as Circle Mage who follow a Grey Warden and not an apostate. In some play throughs i make her wear armor as Arcane warrior, for the illusion that she is a part of rare Grey Warden gang who specialize in combat magic. So the Templars or anyone (other than Circle Tower) failed to see her as an apostate. That is role-playing.

Modifié par Nizaris1, 09 octobre 2012 - 05:11 .


#14
Realmzmaster

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I do not know if it is part of the lore, but no Kossith uses a shield or bow. When you meet Sten he has lost a two handed weapon and most of his talents lie in that area. Each character comes with their own backstory which is why certain talents are already assigned, The longer you took to recruit the companion the more talents and skills were already assigned.

The point behind this could be that certain skills and talents were learned before you meet them. The companions are not a blank slate.
You looking for full party creation and that will not happen in Bioware games unless you recruit them early. Each companion has their weapon of choice. Sebastian comes with the backstory that he was not good at sword play to much getting hit he says. So his grandfather suggested the bow..

No Bioware game from BG1 to now has let the gamer choose the race or class of the companion or what skills and talents they have. They probably never will.
Bioware has never done a full party creation game.
The closest they have come to allowing complete assignment of skills was with Talis in MoTA.

I have no problem with the skill trees assigned in DA2. I worked within the system and found ways to best utilize my companions, but that it the way I roleplay. YMMV.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 09 octobre 2012 - 05:26 .


#15
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DA2 system is boring to replay. When i want to replay, i want to see different thing, i want to see Fenris use shield, Aveline use bow, and so on. I played DA:O countless of times with different companion settings. I play DA2 only several time, less than 10 times, and each time i see the very same thing, BORING

despite what you say, the player can set to meet the companions early, skip fast level up, i mean level up slowly and so the companions have less skills when we meet them. I am not sure there is any mod that re-spec companions

#16
cJohnOne

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Yes and No. Archers are different than Dual wielding Rogues so having them be more seperate is a good thing in my opinion. But are Warriors different or should they be able to choose their weapons?

Why shouldn't warriors be able to be sucky bowmen if they want to be but I think they should be very bad at bowing.

#17
Zanallen

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I am fine with the companions having preassigned skills or locking out trees if it fits that companion's backstory. I think it makes them more of their own character rather than meat puppets that follow the PC around. Hell, I'd be fine if Bioware took it all the way and didn't allow you to customize the companion's abilities but instead had them learn certain skills and boost certain abilities on their own.

#18
Maria Caliban

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Nizaris1 wrote...

Please bring back the liberty to customize companions in DA3


Not going to happen.

#19
daaaav

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Nizaris1 wrote...


You say Zevran lockpicking is failed, but if you ask Zevran why we need him he say "i can pick lock", so where is the basis saying it is a fail? Rogues can pick lock even without lockpicking talents, those talents just add bonus.

Character identity is not lost in my opinion, it being enriched. In fact I don't understand why Varric cannot use other than Bianca, Fenris cannot use one handed sword and so on. That is restriction.

In DA:O, Alistair identity is not lost using two handed weapon, there are Templars who use two handed weapons and in DA2 Templars using bow and daggers as well. Sten identity is not lost using bow, in DA2 there is a proof of Qunari bow existence. Mages can't wear armor? There is Arcane Warriors who wear armor, and the Warden who teach specialization after learn it from a spirit, even he/she is not a mage.

Morrigan outfit? I make her wear my apperentice Circle Mage robe or Enchanter robe for the illusion of she disguised as Circle Mage who follow a Grey Warden and not an apostate. In some play throughs i make her wear armor as Arcane warrior, for the illusion that she is a part of rare Grey Warden gang who specialize in combat magic. So the Templars or anyone (other than Circle Tower) failed to see her as an apostate. That is role-playing.


Not sure what to tell you...

You say enriched, I say replaced. It sounds like you prefer games like Skyrim or Fallout where companion characters are little more than blank slates for you to project whatever you want! There's nothing wrong with that, but it's not for Bioware characters.

Varric and Sten both OBSESS over their weapons and Morrigan hates circle mages. To me it feels jarring to be able to make characters ignore their natures... If I had my way then companions would be MORE confrontational with the warden when they don't agree with him.

Modifié par daaaav, 09 octobre 2012 - 07:15 .


#20
Guest_Nizaris1_*

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In DA:O i can make my Rogue use dagger and small shield, i can't do it in DA2. That is bad.


Varric and Sten both OBSESS over their weapons and Morrigan hates circle mage


I obsses with my guitar, but doesn't mean i don't want to play other instruments, i can play many instruments i tell you, but i obssessed with guitar playing. I hate USA foreign policy, doesn't mean i hate Americans, doesn't mean i don't want to eat at KFC at all.

In Morrigan case, if it is a need for her to wear Circle Mage robe she must wear it for my role-play purpose. My Warden don't want a problem from the ignorant peoples who fear apostate or from wandering Templars. So she must wear Circle Mage robe even if she hate it.

In Fort Drakon, Morrigan wear Chantry robe and disguise as a priest with leliana, no problem.

Modifié par Nizaris1, 09 octobre 2012 - 08:55 .


#21
Xewaka

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There are two ways to approach companion characterization. One is to restrict them so that they cannot step outside of the "comfort zone" the creators have assigned them, essentially removing the player from the equation. The other is through additions and tradeoffs, so that the characterization of the companion exists not to the exclusion of everything else but rather gently nudging the player towards the intended design. One is the stick, the other is the carrot.

Needless to say, I find that additions and tradeoffs work much better than limitations and option removals. Let's take a look at, say, Minsc. He's a Rashemen Berserker. However, when Baldur's Gate came out, the Barbarian class wasn't conceptualized yet. So they took a Ranger (man of the wilderness), added the berserker skill to him, and then switched the third quickbar slot for a attack and damage bonus (boo). So with an addition (berserker skill) and a tradeoff (quickslot for bonuses) Minsc went from generic Ranger to the loonie we all grew fond of. This is characterization through mechanics done right. You may say "but his initial weapon skill is spent in Greatsword!"; that, however, doesn't keep him from learning different skills. We're nudged in a direction with him, but it is not mandatory we keep that path. Within the confines of his class (Ranger), we can have him turn into whatever we need, as long as we accept it is not the intended direction of the character.

Let's compare with Aveline. Aveline is a soldier, and later a watchwoman. Through her life, she's been a protector. She has her own specialization tree (Guardian) that replaces the regular Warrior Specializations, and her personal specialization tree focuses on defence. So far, so good: we have a tradeoff that nudges us in the intended character direction. Then, for no feasible reason, she's stolen the capability to learn to use two-handed weapons. We're being restricted in a nonsensical way, for the sake of the character: This is characterization through mechanics done wrong. Had Aveline retained the ability to wield greatswords and her defender tree, I wouldn't have any complain about her: A tradeoff that nudges the player to develop the character in the intended direction is a fine way to add companion characterization through mechanics, without limiting player options.

Through all this discussion, there is something people are clearly forgetting: That a player is given the option to build a character agaisnt its typecasting doesn't automatically destroy the character for every player ever. If you want to keep the character mechanically consistent with its concept, it is in the player's power to do so. To force other players to play the game an specific way because it bothers you that an option exists is petty, when we've already stablished that the option exisiting does not damage characterization. Again: characterization is not lost because a player has the power to develop a companion in a direction different from intended. Nothing is lost in allowing more options, and we gain the opportunity to try new things. It baffles me that people oppose this.

Modifié par Xewaka, 09 octobre 2012 - 11:14 .


#22
wright1978

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Firstly i'll say that i liked the iconic looks of DA2 companions and i appreciated the companion specific skill tree each companion had. However i do agree that characters within classes should have access to skill trees within that class. Disappointed me that Merrill was excluded from healing tree and sword and shield tree was restricted to Aveline etc.

#23
cJohnOne

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From a Realistic point of view Double Dagger Warriors don't make any sense. They should use full size weapons.

I think I like restricting weapons in some cases but why shouldn't a rogue use a shield if he wants to?

Is it too diffcult to impliment weapon choices into the game? They were in the game before. Why not have them now?

#24
Fallstar

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The re-specialization mod is one of my favourites. I think we should be able to re-assign all talent, attribute and skill points when we acquire a companion, but also have an auto level function for those who don't want to go into as much detail. Zevran is a prime example of a character who is perfectly poised to fulfill a melee DPS a role, but is hampered by his pre-selected talents in the vanilla game. It's even worse with him because you need to complete at least one of the 4 major plots before you can acquire him, so you're guaranteed to have leveled up quite a bit already.

I also fully support the removal of class restrictions on items for both the PC and companions, except possibly in the case of mage's staves. I'm not sure if you need to be a mage to use one of those or not in DA. That a rogue can't pick up a shield, or a warrior an extra weapon, is ridiculous and limiting.

As well as the removal of race and origin choice, in DA2 they cut the number of weapon specializations for warriors in half. They seriously need to revert some of these restrictions.

#25
hoorayforicecream

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Xewaka wrote...

Through all this discussion, there is something people are clearly forgetting: That a player is given the option to build a character agaisnt its typecasting doesn't automatically destroy the character for every player ever. If you want to keep the character mechanically consistent with its concept, it is in the player's power to do so. To force other players to play the game an specific way because it bothers you that an option exists is petty, when we've already stablished that the option exisiting does not damage characterization. Again: characterization is not lost because a player has the power to develop a companion in a direction different from intended. Nothing is lost in allowing more options, and we gain the opportunity to try new things. It baffles me that people oppose this.


I disagree. Look at someone like Varric. Varric loves Bianca. He really loves Bianca. He has many lines of dialogue and story beats dedicated to how much he cares about Bianca. Bianca is an integral part of his character. Allowing the player to make Varric a dual dagger-wielding rogue like Isabela while he continues to talk about how much he loves Bianca would instantly kill any sense of immersion for many players. Allowing the player to remove Bianca would severely hamper the ability of the developers to tell Varric's story.

You say that nothing is lost, but I think that you're wrong. There's definitely a tradeoff involved.