210 réponses à ce sujet

[J.C. Blade]

EntropicAngel wrote...

J.C. Blade wrote...

Up to ten years of freedom, at least five good people who have been trying to help him up to this point and he is still suck in a rundown mansion, raiding the vine cellar, gmabling and wenting out his fustrations on any nearby mage in the group.  People who do not want to be helpped do not deserve to be helped.

At least Anders has the excusse of actually being possesed by an immortal being of absolutes.

Five good people? I'm curious who.

Raiding the wine cellar? Really? he's living in the house. Don't recall gambling. Point for venting frustration.

But I would reply really the same thing I did before. It's difficult to understand psychological pain and difficulty unless you've been through it yourself. I'm not saying his actions are okay, but I'm saying I can empathize.

Like Jack in ME2.

Aveline, Donnic, Varric, Isabella, Hawke, even Merrill try to help him in their own way, perhaps not a perfect way but they tried, offered at least, and it is the best kind of help he'll get in that world. One of the banters also mentions that he is a regular with Donnic and Varric for card games, and that he is losing enough money to ask Hawke for a loan. It might be all in good humour, but if they played for potato chips instead of gold I'd be more accepting of that.

Jack found both purpose and place in her life, in less than six months after Shepard left no less.

Modifié par J.C. Blade, 08 octobre 2012 - 07:41 .

[mousestalker]

Monkeys are fundamentally evil. They look like they are fun and all, but if you look at how interact with each other and with humans, it never ends well. Basically they're all jealous that we're the top primate and rotten lousy little jerks that they are they are never going to forgive us for that fact. Every primate in the world other than humans are plotting against us. Do not believe that pro-gorilla propaganda. They are the worst of the lot. All of the troubles in Zaire, Rwanda and Burundi were started by secret gorilla forces.

We've all seen 'Planet of the Apes'. The evidence is right there. If we don't put down the monkey rebellion, if we don't nip the ape revolt in the bud, we'll only have trouble later on. I say the Vietnamese have the right idea. What isn't human is either gets us food or is food. If we don't put orangutan brain soup on the menu, our children will wind up growing the furry monsters bananas for generations to come.

[congealeddgtllvr]

Melca36 wrote... 
I think his viciousness towards Merrill was the reason I came to dislike him. 

If you take Anders on Merrill's Act 3 quest he tells her the world is an infinitely worse place with her in it instead of Marethari and that she should have died instead of the Keeper, or something like that.  

[Wifflebottom]

I dislike Fenris because he was like Jack in ME2, a jerk until you used Hawke's soul healing genitals. Most of his interactions with Hawke are written like "Oh he's such a tortured soul, I must fix him!" or "Slavery is bad, mages are bad, I hate other elves, and everything is bad."
I tried being nice but then I accidentally took the slave girl and he got really mad, then I realized it's fun to ****** of Fenris.

[Wulfram]

To be fair, Fenris wouldn't have money problems if Hawke wasn't a greedy pig who hogged all the loot.

Seriously, you live in a mansion while leaving the people who helped you amass your fortune to live in a slum, or to squat. WTH Hawke?

[Rpgfantasyplayer]

I just want to know why he never cleaned up the dead bodies. Didn't those start to stink after a while?

[Realmzmaster]

EntropicAngel wrote...

J.C. Blade wrote...

Up to ten years of freedom, at least five good people who have been trying to help him up to this point and he is still suck in a rundown mansion, raiding the vine cellar, gmabling and wenting out his fustrations on any nearby mage in the group.  People who do not want to be helpped do not deserve to be helped.

At least Anders has the excusse of actually being possesed by an immortal being of absolutes.

Five good people? I'm curious who.

Raiding the wine cellar? Really? he's living in the house. Don't recall gambling. Point for venting frustration.

But I would reply really the same thing I did before. It's difficult to understand psychological pain and difficulty unless you've been through it yourself. I'm not saying his actions are okay, but I'm saying I can empathize.

Like Jack in ME2.

Fenris play Diamondback with Donnic. If you have Varric in the party he mentions the gambling when  this banter comes up with Aveline.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 08 octobre 2012 - 07:53 .

[Fox In The Box]

mousestalker wrote...

Monkeys are fundamentally evil. They look like they are fun and all, but if you look at how interact with each other and with humans, it never ends well. Basically they're all jealous that we're the top primate and rotten lousy little jerks that they are they are never going to forgive us for that fact. Every primate in the world other than humans are plotting against us. Do not believe that pro-gorilla propaganda. They are the worst of the lot. All of the troubles in Zaire, Rwanda and Burundi were started by secret gorilla forces.

We've all seen 'Planet of the Apes'. The evidence is right there. If we don't put down the monkey rebellion, if we don't nip the ape revolt in the bud, we'll only have trouble later on. I say the Vietnamese have the right idea. What isn't human is either gets us food or is food. If we don't put orangutan brain soup on the menu, our children will wind up growing the furry monsters bananas for generations to come.

"Does this primate have a soul," the macaque asked, eyes wide and tail twitching.
"No," came the answer as it was kicked off a cliff.

[J.C. Blade]

EntropicAngel wrote...

And, good point about Jack, but that's directly because of Shepard's actions--he essentially picks Jack up and places her in a new life. Hawke and Fenris were more like peers--Hawke doesn't seem to affect them very much. Outside of Merrill, 'course.

However it begun in the end Jack chose to let go of her anger and move on, she could have chosen otherwise. Fenris didn't let go. But he still chose to come to Hawke with all his problems. Moreso, be blamed an entire group of people for what one had done to him, his hatred didn't go down even after his long awaited death.

That is what I don't like about Fenris. His inability to let go and hold tight to that bottled anger despite the decade that had gone by, and his expectation that Hawke will just accept it like it's just another quirk of his personality.

And all of this felt even worse if Hawke happened to be a mage.

Modifié par J.C. Blade, 08 octobre 2012 - 08:00 .

[MillKill]

I like him a great deal. I especially enjoyed that he played such a vital role in the game's story: Reinforcing the Mage/Templar conflict from an Anti-Mage view. If we didn't have someone to remind us of just how bad Mage freedom is, Templar viewpoints may have rung hollow. Fenris served to show that, while the Templars might be harsh, they have very good reasons for what they do. He did a great deal to undo the huge bias towards mages that players may have acquired in Origins. He did for me, at least.

I think that most of the hate for him comes from:

1) The people that hate DA2 as a whole so much that they feel the desire to hate every individual element

2) The people complaining about bisexuals

3) The people who are completely pro-mage

4) Those who hate his character design as too "Anime."

He ended up being one of my favorite characters in the game for his ability to actually make me think about a complex issue from another angle and change my mind accordingly. Plus, I found him to be my useful party member in combat. A 2H Warrior with the best aspects of Templars, Berserkers, and Reavers? Sign me up!

[Dutchess]

J.C. Blade wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

And, good point about Jack, but that's directly because of Shepard's actions--he essentially picks Jack up and places her in a new life. Hawke and Fenris were more like peers--Hawke doesn't seem to affect them very much. Outside of Merrill, 'course.

However it begun in the end Jack chose to let go of her anger and on, she could have chosen otherwise. Fenris didn't let go. But he still chose to come to Hawke with all his problems. Moreso, be blamed an entire group of people for what one had done to him, his hatred didn't go down even after his long awaited death.

That is what I don't like about Fenris. His inability to let go and hold tight to that bottled anger despite the decade that had gone by, and his expectation that Hawke will just accept it like it's just another quirk of his personality.

And all of this felt even worse if Hawke happened to be a mage.

Fenris can't let go because Danarius is still alive all that time. He says it in the conversation when Hawke visits him for
the first time: "I tried to leave my past behind, but it won't stay there". How can you move on when the person that is responsible for the pain and misery in your life is still hunting you? After A Bitter Pill he tells Hawke he tries to let go of his anger, but that the hate is too strong after everything that's been done to him.
Only when Danarius is finally dead, he can really look forward instead of over his shoulder. 

That he can learn to trust and even love a mage Hawke proves he does not blindly hate all mages. They just need to prove themselves to him, show him they are different than the magisters he knows. He is mean to Merrill because she is a bloodmage. She is foolishly using the magic that is used to commit terrible crimes, thing he has witnessed. She is an example of what is in his eyes a weak mage, using power that should not be used, dealing with demons to get what she wants. Is he right to call her a monster? Probably not, but all other blood mages he has seen are monsters, so I can at least imagine where he's coming from.

I guess this would count as justifying everything Fenris does as a fan, but my point is that I can see how his behavior can be justified. I find it understandable, and if you actually listen to him when he speaks, especially when taking him to the Gallows for the first time, you can see he is not irrational in his mistrust. He is not blind in his hatred. He can argue about his point of view and provide arguments to support it. 

[Melca36]

MillKill wrote...

I like him a great deal. I especially enjoyed that he played such a vital role in the game's story: Reinforcing the Mage/Templar conflict from an Anti-Mage view. If we didn't have someone to remind us of just how bad Mage freedom is, Templar viewpoints may have rung hollow. Fenris served to show that, while the Templars might be harsh, they have very good reasons for what they do. He did a great deal to undo the huge bias towards mages that players may have acquired in Origins. He did for me, at least.

I think that most of the hate for him comes from:

1) The people that hate DA2 as a whole so much that they feel the desire to hate every individual element

2) The people complaining about bisexuals

3) The people who are completely pro-mage

4) Those who hate his character design as too "Anime."

He ended up being one of my favorite characters in the game for his ability to actually make me think about a complex issue from another angle and change my mind accordingly. Plus, I found him to be my useful party member in combat. A 2H Warrior with the best aspects of Templars, Berserkers, and Reavers? Sign me up!

I actually gave DA2 a 7/10. I have no problem with bisexual romances at all. And yes while I do prefer mages, that was not the issue.

I just did not like him and alot of the fandom into him really put down people who don't consider him a favorite.

I will admit though that I love Isabela and how she gets him to loosen up at the end. And it makes me laugh to see his fans whine about the Isabela/Fenris dialogue.

[SafetyShattered]

EntropicAngel wrote...

I have no idea where all the fenris hate comes from.

Fenris does not whine at all.

Fenris had lyrium burnt into his skin. Imagine the most painful thing you can, then imagine ten times that.


If literally every line out of Fenris' mouth had been about his torture he would not have been whining.

This. I actually really like Fenris. He was one of my favorite characters.

[legbamel]

A couple of points on why I think some of the Fenris hate is misguided:
Fenris hates on Merrill for the same reason Anders does. She's a blood mage who spends ten years telling everyone they're wrong about blood magic only to prove them right. Are they mean? Yup. Does she listen to anyone, no matter the tack they take? Nope.

Fenris hates the Alienage and, less so, the Dalish in part out of disappointment. I think he had these ideas about what it would be like to be a free elf and the reality was bitterly disappointing to him. Could he have dealt with it better? Yup. But he didn't have the social skills to do so.

Denarius was still hunting Fenris for most of the game. How would you feel knowing that your freedom could be so fleeting that an ambush in a dark alley any night might take you back to the man who stole your memory?

One of my favorite things about Fenris is how surprised he is when Hawke is nice to him. He hates on everything, himself no less than anyone else.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Dude's a hypocrite and determined to be unhappy, he's the only bioware companion I actually dislike.

[Melca36]

tgail73 wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

I have no idea where all the fenris hate comes from.

Fenris does not whine at all.

Fenris had lyrium burnt into his skin. Imagine the most painful thing you can, then imagine ten times that.


If literally every line out of Fenris' mouth had been about his torture he would not have been whining.

So you think it was alright of him to be vicious to Merrill? 

Yes, because it was Merril.

Ok I didn't care for her but I just found that so mean.   Its the same way I couldnt sell Fenris back to Danarius.

I do have a heart.    One time I didn't have enough Friendship points with Fenris even after I killed Danarius, he still tried to kill me at the end of the game.

[Pelle6666]

Never cared about Fenris, the only time I like him was in the end when I convinced him to fight for the mages.
looks at Hawk, looks down, looks at Meredith "I have changed my mind human." Walks over to the other side. XD