689 réponses à ce sujet

[Blueprotoss]

IReuven wrote...

I made too many post like these, too many long replies.
THE LINE MUST BE DRAWN HERE! So I will keep it short.

The endings were poorly recieved cause they SUCK A MAJOR DICK. End of story.
In both meanings.

If the endings were "poorly recieved" then the endings would have been completely redone instead of being explained.

deatharmonic wrote...

I take issue with this because I did a whole BSc degree in Psychology, not just a few classes and if there's anything at all you should take away from Psychology its that you CANNOT reduce human behaviour down to a single factor. Which is what you've done in the OP by stating the reaction to the endings was based on expectation, totally ignoring a plethora of other factors. Personally I can't comprehend why anyone (even those who haven't studied psychology) would be so reductive. In fact its a major criticism of a lot of past research; that researchers have attempted to attribute behaviour to a singular cause. 

The reaction to the endings stem from numerous reasons and for each person those reasons could be totally different from the next persons. I can't say expectation didn't play a part for some people, it may well have. However, for me I know it didn't. 

To be fair some people did have way too high expectations for ME3 that "killed" their experience just like thinking ME3 was the last ME installment and thinking the endings would be completely unique based on the choices in Shepard's trilogy.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 11 octobre 2012 - 02:09 .

[hiraeth]

 the real reason the ending was poorly-received is because it wasn't this

[blueumi]

MassEffectFShep wrote...

 the real reason the ending was poorly-received is because it wasn't this

thank you this is the best i'm glad I watched this

[Blueprotoss]

Paulomedi wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

No, I'm pretty sure the ending was poorly-received because it was awful.

Narrative Breakup;

Forced Symbolism;

Deus Ex Machina in disguise;

Introducing a new character 15 min previous to the ending of a +100hrs narrative;

I can go on...

If a Reaper leader was "forced" symbolism in ME1 then the Reapers and the Geth were "forced" symboism in both ME1 and ME2. 

[RogueBot]

Yeah, that's why everyone hated The Dark Knight Rises. It was simply too overhyped and crumbled under our expectations!

(Yes, that is sarcasm, TDKR was obviously well-received.) Seriously, terrible logic OP. Sometimes things are just bad and you should accept it instead of blaming those not associated with its creation.

Modifié par RogueBot, 11 octobre 2012 - 03:18 .

[rapscallioness]

The thing that actually irritates and concerns me the most about the whole Ending Debacle is not even the actual endings. Not anymore.I'm ready to leave that whole thing behind. Like a bad day. I want to move on.

There are some ppl that thought the ending was just fine. Or even loved it. But there were far too many fans that did not like it, and did not like it with a passion. Far too many for it to be a fluke.

What keeps me lingering in this state of discontent is actually BW's responses to these complaints. I know. I know. They did release the EC which I really liked. For me, the EC helped quite a bit.

But in various interviews and things like that, it feels like they've been rather dismissive. Either we didn't understand it; the internet just got everyone riled up; unrealistic expectations; and oh, yeah---we're having a hard time letting go of our Shepard's. Lol.

Not once have they veered anywhere near the idea, or statement, that maybe...just maybe..they screwed up. This is what irritates me. Like a splinter. It's like, as a woman, when you point something out/complain/take issue....you're an "hysterical female".

That's what this feels like to me except instead of being labeled an hysterical female, we're labeled hysterical fans. Not once taking ownership of the crud they put out with that ending. And regardless of the themes, it was poorly put together and poorly presented.

This also concerns me because if they think they did good, and we're just being unreasonable, then they might try to do something like that again...

You know what, BW, I believe you do have artistic vision and integrity. I say that sincerely. And the fans expect you to live up to it. And they will call you out when you don't.

The original ending to ME3 was clearly beneath BW's capabilities. The fans damn well know this, too.

So, I mean, BW--you can pour whatever Kool-Aid you want down the throats of those game journo's. But the fans are the ones that are gonna tell you what time of night it really is.

[Blueprotoss]

RogueBot wrote...

Yeah, that's why everyone hated The Dark Knight Rises. It was simply too overhyped and crumbled under our expectations!

(Yes, that is sarcasm, TDKR was obviously well-received.) Seriously, terrible logic OP. Sometimes things are just bad and you should accept it instead of blaming those not associated with its creation.

Ironically some people did hate the Dark Knight Rises because they thought it was overhyped and wasn't up to their way too high expectations.

[TheShogunOfHarlem]

Blueprotoss wrote...

IReuven wrote...

I made too many post like these, too many long replies.
THE LINE MUST BE DRAWN HERE! So I will keep it short.

The endings were poorly recieved cause they SUCK A MAJOR DICK. End of story.
In both meanings.

If the endings were "poorly recieved" then the endings would have been completely redone instead of being explained.

You do realize that very few companies are that accomidating to consumers. Why from the perspective of a company that values short term success want to lose face and admit that their practices are counter-productive to success in the long term?

They don't care what people think about the ending it's all about short term profit that EA can get from MP.

Modifié par TheShogunOfHarlem, 11 octobre 2012 - 03:43 .

[Blueprotoss]

rapscallioness wrote...

The thing that actually irritates and concerns me the most about the whole Ending Debacle is not even the actual endings. Not anymore.I'm ready to leave that whole thing behind. Like a bad day. I want to move on.

There are some ppl that thought the ending was just fine. Or even loved it. But there were far too many fans that did not like it, and did not like it with a passion. Far too many for it to be a fluke.

What keeps me lingering in this state of discontent is actually BW's responses to these complaints. I know. I know. They did release the EC which I really liked. For me, the EC helped quite a bit.

But in various interviews and things like that, it feels like they've been rather dismissive. Either we didn't understand it; the internet just got everyone riled up; unrealistic expectations; and oh, yeah---we're having a hard time letting go of our Shepard's. Lol.

Not once have they veered anywhere near the idea, or statement, that maybe...just maybe..they screwed up. This is what irritates me. Like a splinter. It's like, as a woman, when you point something out/complain/take issue....you're an "hysterical female".

That's what this feels like to me except instead of being labeled an hysterical female, we're labeled hysterical fans. Not once taking ownership of the crud they put out with that ending. And regardless of the themes, it was poorly put together and poorly presented.

This also concerns me because if they think they did good, and we're just being unreasonable, then they might try to do something like that again...

You know what, BW, I believe you do have artistic vision and integrity. I say that sincerely. And the fans expect you to live up to it. And they will call you out when you don't.

The original ending to ME3 was clearly beneath BW's capabilities. The fans damn well know this, too.

So, I mean, BW--you can pour whatever Kool-Aid you want down the throats of those game journo's. But the fans are the ones that are gonna tell you what time of night it really is.

Some of the "fans" have always been way too critical about Bioware games and this year has shown us that a lot of games without Bioware being involved had a small crazy reaction from a small grroup of fans.  Some people wanted too much and had their expectations way too high, which means a perfect opportunity for a disappointment to occur like what Resident Evil 4, Final Fantasy 12, and Fallout 3 have previously done.

[Blueprotoss]

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

IReuven wrote...

I made too many post like these, too many long replies.
THE LINE MUST BE DRAWN HERE! So I will keep it short.

The endings were poorly recieved cause they SUCK A MAJOR DICK. End of story.
In both meanings.

If the endings were "poorly recieved" then the endings would have been completely redone instead of being explained.

You do realize that very few companies are that accomidating to consumers. Why from the perspective of a company that values short term success want to lose face and admit that their practices are counter-productive to success in the long term?

They don't care what people think about the ending it's all about short term profit that EA can get from MP.

EC was being produced before the small amount of rage appeared, but ironically there was a small amount of rage with ME1 and ME2.  Creating a video game RPG trilogy that spanned over 5 years is far from a short term investment especially with what Bioware put into the ME series.  Ironically the MP in ME3 was Bioware's idea even when Bioware pitched a MP only ME game done by another Bioware studio that wasn't currently working on a ME project.

[TheShogunOfHarlem]

Blueprotoss wrote...

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

IReuven wrote...

I made too many post like these, too many long replies.
THE LINE MUST BE DRAWN HERE! So I will keep it short.

The endings were poorly recieved cause they SUCK A MAJOR DICK. End of story.
In both meanings.

If the endings were "poorly recieved" then the endings would have been completely redone instead of being explained.

You do realize that very few companies are that accomidating to consumers. Why from the perspective of a company that values short term success want to lose face and admit that their practices are counter-productive to success in the long term?

They don't care what people think about the ending it's all about short term profit that EA can get from MP.

EC was being produced before the small amount of rage appeared, but ironically there was a small amount of rage with ME1 and ME2.  Creating a video game RPG trilogy that spanned over 5 years is far from a short term investment especially with what Bioware put into the ME series.  Ironically the MP in ME3 was Bioware's idea even when Bioware pitched a MP only ME game done by another Bioware studio that wasn't currently working on a ME project.

Small amount of rage? You serious? I lurked the forums since 2007 and saw nothing remotely resembling this at all.

The EC was actually EA/Bioware's second reaction to the backlash. Their first was defending their product. SP DLC was temporariliy postponed due to the wrok in the EC. 

You miss the point completely. Short term for EA not Bioware. (ME1 was not under EA) Generally EA, like any company who has a shortsighted business practice only concerns themselves with short term profit and maximizing that goal will put out substandard products and market the hell out of it like it is the second coming. They will also appeal to the LCD and attempt to put out a product that they deem will have mass appeal. It's what Hollywood has been doing for decades with films, specifically sequels. EA taking over only meant that they could milk the ME IP for more short term gain and not care about consumer demand at all.

If you buy that Bioware always wanted to put MP into a ME game fine, I don't. EA has been forcing MP and online gaming for some time. Frank Gibeau has been stating that EA preferres to put MP in all of their games and has been stating that SP is dead.

[PinkysPain]

Mac worked for Bioware ... if EA pushed through MP then all I can say is thank you EA.

[Kastrenzo]

Never make anything good because you will never be able to live up to expectations the next time you make something.

I still stand by that ME3 was a great game with a few speedbumps, Like Kai Leng Plot armor, Tali Face BS, Etc. It was just the last 15 minutes that were a turd. EC Made it better, but didn't fix the game completley.

[RogueBot]

Blueprotoss wrote...

RogueBot wrote...

Yeah, that's why everyone hated The Dark Knight Rises. It was simply too overhyped and crumbled under our expectations!

(Yes, that is sarcasm, TDKR was obviously well-received.) Seriously, terrible logic OP. Sometimes things are just bad and you should accept it instead of blaming those not associated with its creation.

Ironically some people did hate the Dark Knight Rises because they thought it was overhyped and wasn't up to their way too high expectations.

I'm sure some people didn't like it because there weren't enough bat-nipples. Nothing's going to be liked by everyone. But generally speaking, TDKR was very well-received, unlike ME3's ending, Superman 64, the movie Gigli, etc.

[Cashmoney007]

rapscallioness wrote...

The thing that actually irritates and concerns me the most about the whole Ending Debacle is not even the actual endings. Not anymore.I'm ready to leave that whole thing behind. Like a bad day. I want to move on.

There are some ppl that thought the ending was just fine. Or even loved it. But there were far too many fans that did not like it, and did not like it with a passion. Far too many for it to be a fluke.

What keeps me lingering in this state of discontent is actually BW's responses to these complaints. I know. I know. They did release the EC which I really liked. For me, the EC helped quite a bit.

But in various interviews and things like that, it feels like they've been rather dismissive. Either we didn't understand it; the internet just got everyone riled up; unrealistic expectations; and oh, yeah---we're having a hard time letting go of our Shepard's. Lol.

Not once have they veered anywhere near the idea, or statement, that maybe...just maybe..they screwed up. This is what irritates me. Like a splinter. It's like, as a woman, when you point something out/complain/take issue....you're an "hysterical female".

That's what this feels like to me except instead of being labeled an hysterical female, we're labeled hysterical fans. Not once taking ownership of the crud they put out with that ending. And regardless of the themes, it was poorly put together and poorly presented.

This also concerns me because if they think they did good, and we're just being unreasonable, then they might try to do something like that again...

You know what, BW, I believe you do have artistic vision and integrity. I say that sincerely. And the fans expect you to live up to it. And they will call you out when you don't.

The original ending to ME3 was clearly beneath BW's capabilities. The fans damn well know this, too.

So, I mean, BW--you can pour whatever Kool-Aid you want down the throats of those game journo's. But the fans are the ones that are gonna tell you what time of night it really is.

I agree with this as well.  Not every fan was a nut running around going to the FTC and having petitions and so on.  There is criticism in ME3 that makes sense.  But I am sure a lot of fans could have gotten over the other issues in the game if the ending were done well.  The only ending I cared about was going to be destroy and even after the EC it was still going to be destroy the reapers.  You have people still say to others that make very good points about the game that they don't understand it?  What is there to understand?  I still think the game is good and still like the multiplayer.  But I still can't replay ME3 yet until I see a DLC that I want to get to actually make the game fun again in single player.  I can still go back and play ME1 and ME2.  Bioware on theses forums have even said that they would embrace the community more here if things were constructive.  I personally would be happy to have a healthy talk with them about this game.  I don't know if that would happen but would be nice.    

[Ratimir]

Blueprotoss wrote...

[If the endings were "poorly recieved" then the endings would have been completely redone instead of being explained.

If?

Are you seriously claiming that you don't think the endings were poorly received?

Seriously?

[deatharmonic]

Blueprotoss wrote...

deatharmonic wrote...

I take issue with this because I did a whole BSc degree in Psychology, not just a few classes and if there's anything at all you should take away from Psychology its that you CANNOT reduce human behaviour down to a single factor. Which is what you've done in the OP by stating the reaction to the endings was based on expectation, totally ignoring a plethora of other factors. Personally I can't comprehend why anyone (even those who haven't studied psychology) would be so reductive. In fact its a major criticism of a lot of past research; that researchers have attempted to attribute behaviour to a singular cause. 

The reaction to the endings stem from numerous reasons and for each person those reasons could be totally different from the next persons. I can't say expectation didn't play a part for some people, it may well have. However, for me I know it didn't.

 

To be fair some people did have way too high expectations for ME3 that "killed" their experience just like thinking ME3 was the last ME installment and thinking the endings would be completely unique based on the choices in Shepard's trilogy.

Thats pretty much what I said in the bold & underlined bit. Of course it played a role for some people, but the OP is treating expectation as the only factor influencing people's perceptions; which is wrong because there are numerous other factors at play.

[arial]

you all are taking my post completely out of context.

I am not putting the blame completely on the fans, nor am i putting it completely on Bioware.

Both groups are at fault.

[deatharmonic]

arial wrote...

you all are taking my post completely out of context.

I am not putting the blame completely on the fans, nor am i putting it completely on Bioware.

Both groups are at fault.

arial wrote...

 The real reason the ending(s) were poorly recieved is quite simple.

since the day ME3 was anounced, people started speculating on what features it would have, how the story would progress, etc.

It came to the state where No game could realisticly match what fans expected.

When the game finally came out, and it could not live up to what people were sure it would be, people looked for every possible reason to blame for their dissatisfaction.

This is your OP, no blame is attributed to Bioware. People's expectations is the only thing you mention as the reason behind why the endings were poorly recieved.

[arial]

deatharmonic wrote...

arial wrote...

you all are taking my post completely out of context.

I am not putting the blame completely on the fans, nor am i putting it completely on Bioware.

Both groups are at fault.

arial wrote...

 The real reason the ending(s) were poorly recieved is quite simple.

since the day ME3 was anounced, people started speculating on what features it would have, how the story would progress, etc.

It came to the state where No game could realisticly match what fans expected.

When the game finally came out, and it could not live up to what people were sure it would be, people looked for every possible reason to blame for their dissatisfaction.

This is your OP, no blame is attributed to Bioware. People's expectations is the only thing you mention as the reason behind why the endings were poorly recieved.

absence of proof is not proof of absence.

Just because I did not mention Bioware, does not mean I do not partially blame them.

[Zazzerka]

Then you probably should've mentioned that in your OP.

[Ratimir]

Your post said "the real reason". Not "one of the reasons". Not even "the main reason", but "the real reason".

Implicitly, you are blaming only the fans. If that was not your intent, then I suggest you think more carefully about your phrasing in the future.

[arial]

Ratimir wrote...

Your post said "the real reason". Not "one of the reasons". Not even "the main reason", but "the real reason".

Implicitly, you are blaming only the fans. If that was not your intent, then I suggest you think more carefully about your phrasing in the future.

multiple things can be "real".

[Ratimir]

That would make it "A real reason", not "THE real reason".