689 réponses à ce sujet

[Maxster_]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Yeah, yeah. Minor details they are.
Retarded intro with retarded characters?
Reaper chase minigame which completely broken the lore?
Crucible, which is mocking of science, engineering and common sense?
Udina betrays himself?
Priority:earth that is one big plothole, filled with slightly lesser plotholes?

It seems to me, that you have no idea what sci-fi is, what story is, what lore is(especially for scifi) and why work of fiction in scifi genre should be believeable, and why characters should have motive.

I'm not even saying about nonsensical and absurd bullcrap, which ending is.

Minor details are minor just like how semantics is the reason you're upset.  Either way if you were a sci-fi fan then you won't be going crazy here just like how "plot holes" in ME3 would have to be present in ME1 and ME2 to be reasonable.

Maxster_ wrote...

iakus wrote...

Paulomedi wrote...

And where they failed at most:

Suspension of disbelief. Lose it, and any form of fiction work/narrative utterly fails.

ME1 and 2 have their problems, but their narrative never suffers from this.

Heck I'd been warning about that since ME2's Project Lazarus. 

Loss of narrative coherence.
ME2 was nowhere near that, even with terminator.

Two wrongs don't make a right and its ironic when something happens in ME3 its wrong while its okay in ME2.

Minor things like entire plot point, or major parts of gameplay.
Crucible, which is goal of the entire game, is minor to this game.

Okay, you are clearly incapable to bring any arguments, and you can't prove your obviously false assertion. No problem, most of eaware defenders are like that. With a few exceptions.

Here is picture for you.
Yo dawg with EC and leviathans included. Enjoy.

Modifié par Maxster_, 11 octobre 2012 - 05:03 .

[Blueprotoss]

Maxster_ wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Minor details are minor just like how semantics is the reason you're upset.  Either way if you were a sci-fi fan then you won't be going crazy here just like how "plot holes" in ME3 would have to be present in ME1 and ME2 to be reasonable.

Two wrongs don't make a right and its ironic when something happens in ME3 its wrong while its okay in ME2.

Minor things like entire plot point, or major parts of gameplay.
Crucible, which is goal of the entire game, is minor to this game.

Okay, you are clearly incapable to bring any arguments, and you can't prove your obviously false assertion. No problem, most of eaware defenders are like that. With a few exceptions.

Here is picture for you.
Yo dawg with EC and leviathans included. Enjoy.

It saddens me when some people have to resort to ad hominems to prove their "point" even when that shows a lose of credability.

Maxster_ wrote...

Ithurael wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Loss of narrative coherence.
ME2 was nowhere near that, even with terminator.

And at best the EC barley patches up that loss. smudboy - though I must say he can go a bit too in detail - tore the evac scene apart in addition to the rest of the EC.

EC patches nothing. Teleporting Normandy, deserting Joker and retarded Harbringer actually shattered even more.

It sounds like you haven't played the EC even when Joker wouldn't have left Shepard without a good reason and Harbinger doesn't want to kill Shepard.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 11 octobre 2012 - 05:10 .

[Maxster_]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Minor details are minor just like how semantics is the reason you're upset.  Either way if you were a sci-fi fan then you won't be going crazy here just like how "plot holes" in ME3 would have to be present in ME1 and ME2 to be reasonable.

Two wrongs don't make a right and its ironic when something happens in ME3 its wrong while its okay in ME2.

Minor things like entire plot point, or major parts of gameplay.
Crucible, which is goal of the entire game, is minor to this game.

Okay, you are clearly incapable to bring any arguments, and you can't prove your obviously false assertion. No problem, most of eaware defenders are like that. With a few exceptions.

Here is picture for you.
Yo dawg with EC and leviathans included. Enjoy.

It saddens me when some people have to resort to ad hominems to prove their "point" even when that shows a lose of credability.

You sadden yourself? You are on the road to your salvation

EC patches nothing. Teleporting Normandy, deserting Joker and retarded
Harbringer actually shattered even more.

It sounds like you
haven't played the EC even when Joker wouldn't have left Shepard without
a good reason and Harbinger doesn't want to kill Shepard.

It saddens me that you have no idea what chain of command is.

Modifié par Maxster_, 11 octobre 2012 - 05:12 .

[Ratimir]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Ratimir wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

[If the endings were "poorly recieved" then the endings would have been completely redone instead of being explained.

If?

Are you seriously claiming that you don't think the endings were poorly received?

Seriously?

The endings didn't receive that much hate especially when you look at the small outrages with Dark Souls, Diablo 3, Zelda: Skyward Sword, Street Fighter x Tekken, RE: ORC, Dragon's Dogma, Hitman: Absolution, and the Tomb Raider reboot are to name a few that have occured this year.

Not just a river in egypt.

[hiraeth]

Ratimir wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

[If the endings were "poorly recieved" then the endings would have been completely redone instead of being explained.

If?

Are you seriously claiming that you don't think the endings were poorly received?

Seriously?

is the release of the EC not proof in and of itself that the endings were poorly received? i don't see many other games this year releasing extended cuts for their endings...

[The Spamming Troll]

Ratimir wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

[If the endings were "poorly recieved" then the endings would have been completely redone instead of being explained.

If?

Are you seriously claiming that you don't think the endings were poorly received?

Seriously?

this.

blueprotos, your dissilusionaly dillusional.

blueprotos and dremman999 are the ultimate definition of a bioware fan.

[Ridwan]

I think after 14 pages of people calling the thread starter out on his BS should be enough.

[Grubas]

Ohgodinheaven one does not simply argue with bluetoss. Its not possible. Hes got his opinion, and nothing you say will change it. Accept it. And ignore.

[Ithurael]

Paulomedi wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Ratimir wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

[If the endings were "poorly recieved" then the endings would have been completely redone instead of being explained.

If?

Are you seriously claiming that you don't think the endings were poorly received?

Seriously?

this.

blueprotos, your dissilusionaly dillusional.

blueprotos and dremman999 are the ultimate definition of a bioware fan.

I tend to think they like playing devil's advocate. It's rather funny to see them squirm with nonarguments.

Everyone has to be somewhere!

:wizard:

[Subject M]

arial wrote...

 The real reason the ending(s) were poorly recieved is quite simple.

since the day ME3 was anounced, people started speculating on what features it would have, how the story would progress, etc.

It came to the state where No game could realisticly match what fans expected.

When the game finally came out, and it could not live up to what people were sure it would be, people looked for every possible reason to blame for their dissatisfaction.

The real reason , if you allow me to simplify it, was that the ending (as both in ME3 -as-a-whole and ME3s ending) did not reflect the journey (ME1>ME2).

This is the single most important reason why it "failed" and perhaps the most important lesson Bioware, or any other game-story maker should learn.

Modifié par Subject M, 11 octobre 2012 - 08:41 .

[eddieoctane]

The "real reason" is, and has always been, an amalgamation of reasons. The attempts to force an emotional connection to Earth and the child. Overhyped press releases. Day one DLC. Retroactive foreshadowing. The temporal disconnect between the highest point of gameplay difficulty and actual plot resolution by 10-15 minutes. The sudden shift in central theme of the series in the closing moments. The relationship between Allers and IGN. "Perfect" scores coming from people who later admitted to not actually playing the game or being familiar with the series that are then used as a defense by BioWare. Claiming the game as an art piece after backlash begins and in spite of never being originally marketed as such. The list goes on and on. ME3 was fraught with problems. Some are tolerable in isolation. Some are more significant. Under the combined weight, however, ME3 failed.

I'm curious to see how well the Trilogy pack is received. I think it should have the option of playing without the EC content, though, just to give a real experience of the trilogy without any addons. Realistically, though, this won't be possible. Though this does dismiss the "game is incomplete on disc" argument against some IT variants, as BioWare would be confirming that exact fact.

[AlanC9]

How did day one DLC make the ending poorly received? Are people that butthurt by the concept?

[Peranor]

Grubas wrote...

Ohgodinheaven one does not simply argue with bluetoss. Its not possible. Hes got his opinion, and nothing you say will change it. Accept it. And ignore.

Don't forget that he also decides your opinion 
In fact he knows your opinions better then you do yourself.

Modifié par anorling, 11 octobre 2012 - 09:50 .

[jstme]

Real reasons why ME3 endings were poorly recieved is because they were poorly written and executed plus publishers did not want to be more poor by giving developers more time.

[Lunch Box1912]

I don’t think it was so much that the game didn’t live up to expectations; the whole game lived up to its expectations until the last ten minutes.  How does a game deliver for 90% and then not for 10% I think you need to look at the writing process of the last ten minutes and then the writing process of the rest of the game. There were major differences in how each was handled. There’s a much deeper issue there than not living up to the hype.

Please see…

a) http://pikigeek.com/...t-name-release/

Controversy  (at bottom of page)

c) http://www.forbes.co...lc-controversy/

[CaIIisto]

Whenever I hear that story of Casey and Mac locking themselves away in a room to write ME3's ending, I always think of this...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem

...and then realize that realistically, give a monkey a typewriter and you're going to get pages of garbage.....

Modifié par Bester76, 11 octobre 2012 - 11:43 .

[Lunch Box1912]

Bester76 wrote...

Whenever I hear that story of Casey and Mac locking themselves away in a room to write ME3's ending, I always think of this...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem

...and then realize that realistically, give a monkey a typewriter and you're going to get pages of garbage.....

The article I provided states the"Takyris” comments may or may not be true. Disregarding the "Takyris" article just play the game again, the difference between the writing, the story structure throughout the entirety of the game and the last ten minutes is not of the same ilk. It’s plain as night and day, basic fundamentals of writing vanish in the last ten minutes.

Whether one buy’s what the monkeys are typing or not you can’t deny the breakdown of basic writing 101. Apparently Biowares monkey did not type enough to get the Shakespearean quality of ending that could live up to the rest of the game…. Maybe they should give him another banana and see what comes out next?

http://www.writersdi...f-novel-endings

Modifié par Lunch Box1912, 12 octobre 2012 - 01:15 .

[LanceSolous13]

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

I don’t think it was so much that the game didn’t live up to expectations; the whole game lived up to its expectations until the last ten minutes.  How does a game deliver for 90% and then not for 10% I think you need to look at the writing process of the last ten minutes and then the writing process of the rest of the game. There were major differences in how each was handled. There’s a much deeper issue there than not living up to the hype.

My Thane!mancer would like to have a word with you.

Honestly, a vast majority of the game didn't get close to my rather reasonable expectations.

And what did get good focus or goot scenes... were things that I didn't eperience through things like Romance Options and ete.

Look at the ME2 romances in ME3; Jack, Miranda, Thane, Jacob, Tali, Garrus. They really aren't that great. Garrus gets the closest but lacks scenes for it. Jacob and Thane are it a tie for last place on pure Character Assassination.

ME3 is the opposite of DAII. ME1, ME2, and DA:O all put perfect focus on what they should have focused on and are great games for that. DAII lacks focus and heart and general point to its story. ME3 focused on things it shouldn't have focused on (Origins of the Reapers, Starchild) and then neglected to focus on other things, such as characters, choices, narrative cohearence, and et, such as the Rachni.

While playing the game for, around the 9th time, I constantly find myself wondering how someone at Bioware can look at Thane, Jacob, Miranda, Jack, Kasumi, Zaeed, Ashley, Kaidan, Samara, and Cerberus, the Illusive Man, and Kai Leng, and counless others and think "Yeah! We did these characters/plots justice!"

No. You didn't. You intoduced 12 characters in the second game of the series for us to fall in love with (in some cases. litterally), and then sideline them into obscurity to the point that their presence makes absolutely no difference what so ever on the game's plot.

This is not the fan's fault.

This is Bioware doing 10+10=2 when it should have been 20.

[Lunch Box1912]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

I don’t think it was so much that the game didn’t live up to expectations; the whole game lived up to its expectations until the last ten minutes.  How does a game deliver for 90% and then not for 10% I think you need to look at the writing process of the last ten minutes and then the writing process of the rest of the game. There were major differences in how each was handled. There’s a much deeper issue there than not living up to the hype.

My Thane!mancer would like to have a word with you.

Honestly, a vast majority of the game didn't get close to my rather reasonable expectations.

And what did get good focus or goot scenes... were things that I didn't eperience through things like Romance Options and ete.

Look at the ME2 romances in ME3; Jack, Miranda, Thane, Jacob, Tali, Garrus. They really aren't that great. Garrus gets the closest but lacks scenes for it. Jacob and Thane are it a tie for last place on pure Character Assassination.

ME3 is the opposite of DAII. ME1, ME2, and DA:O all put perfect focus on what they should have focused on and are great games for that. DAII lacks focus and heart and general point to its story. ME3 focused on things it shouldn't have focused on (Origins of the Reapers, Starchild) and then neglected to focus on other things, such as characters, choices, narrative cohearence, and et, such as the Rachni.

While playing the game for, around the 9th time, I constantly find myself wondering how someone at Bioware can look at Thane, Jacob, Miranda, Jack, Kasumi, Zaeed, Ashley, Kaidan, Samara, and Cerberus, the Illusive Man, and Kai Leng, and counless others and think "Yeah! We did these characters/plots justice!"

No. You didn't. You intoduced 12 characters in the second game of the series for us to fall in love with (in some cases. litterally), and then sideline them into obscurity to the point that their presence makes absolutely no difference what so ever on the game's plot.

This is not the fan's fault.

This is Bioware doing 10+10=2 when it should have been 20.

I am speaking more on the terms of overall story structure and lore. I think at the end of the day you still have to remember that the third installment is supposed to be more about resolving the central conflict “The Reapers”  rather than building deeper characters. Lore and narrative coherence was pretty decent for me right up until the Beam.  

Modifié par Lunch Box1912, 12 octobre 2012 - 01:38 .

[BearlyHere]

Biosman wrote...

the starchild should have been a KEEPER, that would have made an awesome twist, and kept with the lore of the game, i don't know why BW didn't go with that. But the synthesis end is too starmagic it could never have worked, control and destroy would have sufficed, both with Shep surviving. but whichever choice he made, there had to be a final showdown with Harbinger (post DLC after Leviathan) where shep learns how to defeat a Alpha Reaper (which cannot be controlled) single handed.

Bioware should have employed me

I have expected something about the Keepers since that Salarian asks Shep to scan 25 of them in ME1. I don't think I ever did find them all in any of my games, but I never bothered to look it up either. Then in 3 when Shep rides the space magic express beam up into the Citadel and one of the first things we see besides piles of corpses is a Keeper, and I thought, 'This is it!" But no, we got ten minutes of tedious exposition by a completely new character, a choose your suicide ABC option, and a "Buy moar DLC!" screen. I hadn't wanted to believe what I was hearing about the WTF at the end, but there it was, and the EC did little to fix that. 

[Wayning_Star]

BearlyHere wrote...

Biosman wrote...

the starchild should have been a KEEPER, that would have made an awesome twist, and kept with the lore of the game, i don't know why BW didn't go with that. But the synthesis end is too starmagic it could never have worked, control and destroy would have sufficed, both with Shep surviving. but whichever choice he made, there had to be a final showdown with Harbinger (post DLC after Leviathan) where shep learns how to defeat a Alpha Reaper (which cannot be controlled) single handed.

Bioware should have employed me

I have expected something about the Keepers since that Salarian asks Shep to scan 25 of them in ME1. I don't think I ever did find them all in any of my games, but I never bothered to look it up either. Then in 3 when Shep rides the space magic express beam up into the Citadel and one of the first things we see besides piles of corpses is a Keeper, and I thought, 'This is it!" But no, we got ten minutes of tedious exposition by a completely new character, a choose your suicide ABC option, and a "Buy moar DLC!" screen. I hadn't wanted to believe what I was hearing about the WTF at the end, but there it was, and the EC did little to fix that. 

but that's the real problem..there isn't an ABC ending, or even a D on there for the heck of it. None of the choices are easy peasy, nor easily understood.

ON the the keepers thing, I totally agree, they should've been explored more, but then we, as story readers into our version of event, cannot see everything within the story. The catalyst didn't really surprize me at all. I didnt expect it, but it didn't really have all that shock value. Someone/something had to have the leash on the reapers, as the crucible was the culmination of Sheps 'go fors'. His boss told Shep to find a way to destroy the reapers, or do something to stop them from destroying earth/humanity. The best bet were the crucible, from all concerned. It being a big radio booster, was a bit of a curiousity, but not all that mysterious. Not nears as mysterious as those friggen keepers..who are everywhere and run everything and exactly NOTHING is known about them. I hate to think that they're just not important at all in the story. That would shock me some..lol

[LanceSolous13]

Lunch Box1912 wrote...
I am speaking more on the terms of overall story structure and lore. I think at the end of the day you still have to remember that the third installment is supposed to be more about resolving the central conflict “The Reapers”  rather than building deeper characters. Lore and narrative coherence was pretty decent for me right up until the Beam.  

I would disagree entirely. The story structure is extremely linear, more linear than Dragon Age II was. I may also remind you about the fact that Mass Effect 2 was about the Collectors yet still remains to have emotion, narrative cohearence, and keep its focus on what it should.

On top of that, The Reapers were never that DEEP of antagonists. Most of the series' conflict came from the other species fighting about other issues and then the Reapers. With a build up of "You cannot comprehend them" and "Your victory comes in defeating them, not in understanding them", Nothing any writer comes up with is going to live up to that. They were Lovecraftian for a reason; They were never ment to be explained.

There were a lot of narrative issues.

For starters, What the hell was the point of Arrival? Its entire plot reason was to give us more time to ready the galaxy and... We sit on our asses for 6 months so the sacrafice of the Bahhak System is for naught?

Another issue is that, in the first 20 mins, The game makes no attempt to explain really anything that's going on. Its even worse if you're a new player. Who is Anderson? What's Cerberus? What's a Mass Relay? What are the Reapers? Who is this Kaidan/Ashley character? The questions never get any form of explination.

Moving on from that, so many characters get assassinated and forgotten that it makes it painful for me to consider Mass Effect 2 my favorite game when the end rseult is this. Thane, Why are you onlu discussing your illness? Miranda, Why aren't you coming with me on the ship that just might be one of the safer places in the galaxy? Legion, You said last game that the Geth refused to accept the Reaper's Gifts and... Now you instantly want to keep their gifts? Excuse me?

I would also like to point out how random and confusing and pointless the Citadel Coup was. It has no reason for existance. Cerberus, in ME2, didn't have the man power to do something like that. Hell, No one in ME3 should have that kind of man power. How they're suddenly able to take control of the Citadel is never explained. And what were they going to do with the Council had they gotten them? None of this is explained at all.

Now, Don't even get me started on Kai Leng and the rest of Cerberus...

[Blueprotoss]

Maxster_ wrote...
It saddens me that you have no idea what chain of command is.

How is that when Hackett out ranks Shepard and Joker.

[Blueprotoss]

MassEffectFShep wrote...

is the release of the EC not proof in and of itself that the endings were poorly received? i don't see many other games this year releasing extended cuts for their endings...

Thats a strawman in itself since the EC didn't remake the endings just like what happened in Red Alert 2: Yuri's Revenge, Fallout 3, Final Fantasy 13-2, and Asura's Wrath to name a few.

The Spamming Troll wrote...

this.

blueprotos, your dissilusionaly dillusional.

blueprotos and dremman999 are the ultimate definition of a bioware fan.

I see that you're still resorting to ad hominems still and its ironic when you're calling me a fanboy when the only Bioware series that I chave played as a whole is ME.