If really Mac was the problem then Mac wouldn't have been previously praised for his writing in ME1 and ME2. The level of ignorance would still be there since no matter what writer was used some people would be upset based on ME3 being the end of Shepard's story arc. To be fair all of the "bad" writing cold have been done by Drew before he left when ME2 was completed.Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...
Blueprotoss wrote...
Insulting people and trying to start witch hunts won't work. If I was Mac then BSN would be a lot less ignorant and immature.Arcian wrote...
I'm starting to think Blueprotoss IS Mac Walters.
Nah I'm pretty sure the level of ingorance wouldn't change.
Mind you I base that on the quality of Mac's writing.
real reason the endings were poorly recieved
Débuté par
arial
, oct. 08 2012 08:44
#451
Posté 21 octobre 2012 - 04:58
Blueprotoss
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Retour en haut
#452
Posté 21 octobre 2012 - 04:59
The Spamming Troll
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^
what are you saying? the reason ME3 failed wasnt becsue mac and hudson locked themselves in a room and wrote the ending themselves with no peer revision? your saying its because drew wrote something in ME1 that made ME3 turn out to be nonsensical mess of writing it turned out to be?
argueing with you is impossible!
id rather just insult you too.
way easier. <3
what are you saying? the reason ME3 failed wasnt becsue mac and hudson locked themselves in a room and wrote the ending themselves with no peer revision? your saying its because drew wrote something in ME1 that made ME3 turn out to be nonsensical mess of writing it turned out to be?
Blueprotoss wrote...
i see logic isn't your friend and if you really want to "play" that game then its easy to insult people instead of talking about the actual topic.Paulomedi wrote...
Blueprotoss random quote generator:
To be fair, ...logical fallacies... because ...strawmen..., ...Ad hominen... ironic... opinions.
Fill the blanks!
argueing with you is impossible!
id rather just insult you too.
way easier. <3
Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 21 octobre 2012 - 05:05 .
#453
Posté 21 octobre 2012 - 05:00
Blueprotoss
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It is always easier to insult people because anyone can do it. Either way you don't want to hear facts or opposing opinions, which is why you would rather insult people then have a simple discussion.The Spamming Troll wrote...
Blueprotoss wrote...
I see logic isn't your friend and if you really want to "play" that game then its easy to insult people instead of talking about the actual topic.
argueing with you is impossible!
id rather just insult you too.
way easier. <3
Modifié par Blueprotoss, 21 octobre 2012 - 05:02 .
#454
Posté 21 octobre 2012 - 05:04
Apocaleepse360
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There's over the top expectations, then there's standard expectations. ME3's ending met neither of them.
#455
Posté 21 octobre 2012 - 05:07
The Spamming Troll
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Blueprotoss wrote...
It is always easier to insult people because anyone can do it. Either way you don't want to hear facts or opposing opinions, which is why you would rather insult people then have a simple discussion.The Spamming Troll wrote...
Blueprotoss wrote...
I see logic isn't your friend and if you really want to "play" that game then its easy to insult people instead of talking about the actual topic.
argueing with you is impossible!
id rather just insult you too.
way easier. <3
argue with you is impossible.
its all i wanted to say.
#456
Posté 21 octobre 2012 - 05:12
3DandBeyond
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The real reason the endings were poorly received? They were poorly done.
ME1 and 2 set up the standard for how ME would treat story endings and ultimately the trilogy's ending. Action was needed during conflict resolution. As was logic and coherence. Not choices and stupidity. Contradiction and illogical contrived dialogue trumped up as logic. The hero needed to remain in character and carry the emotion which should be building, the tension should be almost overwhelming when the outcome is determined, not through some conversation between half-wits, but through action and real thought.
I'll say what I've always said, just imagine some sporting event that you like where your team has gotten to the championship-the Stanley Cup, the World Cup, the Super Bowl, the World Series, or whatever. And then in the last few moments of the game, some unknown person walks in with 3 buttons and says he's the real captain of the opposing team. He gives you the option of hitting a button and that will determine how much the opposing team will win by. This person stopped the action of the game, didn't allow your team to actually try and win on their own terms, and tries to make it seem like any choice will be a win for you, even though that's not really clear. Would this be fun?
And then imagine the only other option is to refuse to press a button but then no matter what your team tries to do they lose (always) and at some future time, someone else beats that opposing team based on what your team knows. Your team was never allowed to use what it knows and always loses.
And then, someone took pictures and you get to see a slide show of everyone being happy after the home team gives in to the opposing team.
ME1 and 2 set up the standard for how ME would treat story endings and ultimately the trilogy's ending. Action was needed during conflict resolution. As was logic and coherence. Not choices and stupidity. Contradiction and illogical contrived dialogue trumped up as logic. The hero needed to remain in character and carry the emotion which should be building, the tension should be almost overwhelming when the outcome is determined, not through some conversation between half-wits, but through action and real thought.
I'll say what I've always said, just imagine some sporting event that you like where your team has gotten to the championship-the Stanley Cup, the World Cup, the Super Bowl, the World Series, or whatever. And then in the last few moments of the game, some unknown person walks in with 3 buttons and says he's the real captain of the opposing team. He gives you the option of hitting a button and that will determine how much the opposing team will win by. This person stopped the action of the game, didn't allow your team to actually try and win on their own terms, and tries to make it seem like any choice will be a win for you, even though that's not really clear. Would this be fun?
And then imagine the only other option is to refuse to press a button but then no matter what your team tries to do they lose (always) and at some future time, someone else beats that opposing team based on what your team knows. Your team was never allowed to use what it knows and always loses.
And then, someone took pictures and you get to see a slide show of everyone being happy after the home team gives in to the opposing team.
#457
Posté 21 octobre 2012 - 05:43
Fingertrip
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Subjective opinion doesn't make it a fact.
#458
Posté 21 octobre 2012 - 05:47
ld1449
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Blueprotoss wrote...
If really Mac was the problem then Mac wouldn't have been previously praised for his writing in ME1 and ME2. The level of ignorance would still be there since no matter what writer was used some people would be upset based on ME3 being the end of Shepard's story arc. To be fair all of the "bad" writing cold have been done by Drew before he left when ME2 was completed.Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...
Blueprotoss wrote...
Insulting people and trying to start witch hunts won't work. If I was Mac then BSN would be a lot less ignorant and immature.Arcian wrote...
I'm starting to think Blueprotoss IS Mac Walters.
Nah I'm pretty sure the level of ingorance wouldn't change.
Mind you I base that on the quality of Mac's writing.
Still yet to see a single citation on this so called praise you keep spewing about that Mac allegedly got for his work on ME1 OR his work on ME2 for that matter. Where he didn't touch Garrus or Wrex and was co pilot to Drew
#459
Posté 21 octobre 2012 - 05:51
Jere85
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The ending was poorly received because it was horrible. /thread.
#460
Posté 21 octobre 2012 - 05:57
Blueprotoss
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To be fair that statement is an opinion, which could be said about ME1 and ME2 as well.Apocaleepse360 wrote...
There's over the top expectations, then there's standard expectations. ME3's ending met neither of them.
Its not that hard to notice praise when it happens especially when ME1 and ME2 were originally released, which is ironic when Mac wrote for Wrex in ME1 and Garrus in ME2. Drew was just another writer on the team that happened to be the Lead Writer for ME1 and ME2. We still don't know how much Drew wrote for ME3 hence why its useless to lash out at Mac even when writing is subjective.ld1449 wrote...
Still yet to see a single citation on this so called praise you keep spewing about that Mac allegedly got for his work on ME1 OR his work on ME2 for that matter. Where he didn't touch Garrus or Wrex and was co pilot to Drew
Modifié par Blueprotoss, 21 octobre 2012 - 06:04 .
#461
Posté 21 octobre 2012 - 05:59
Blueprotoss
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A discussion is only impossible when the other doesn't what to discuss hence this is what you're doing.The Spamming Troll wrote...
Blueprotoss wrote...
It is always easier to insult people because anyone can do it. Either way you don't want to hear facts or opposing opinions, which is why you would rather insult people then have a simple discussion.The Spamming Troll wrote...
Blueprotoss wrote...
I see logic isn't your friend and if you really want to "play" that game then its easy to insult people instead of talking about the actual topic.
argueing with you is impossible!
id rather just insult you too.
way easier. <3
argue with you is impossible.
its all i wanted to say.
#462
Posté 21 octobre 2012 - 06:12
Blueprotoss
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Either way you put it thats still opinion.3DandBeyond wrote...
The real reason the endings were poorly received? They were poorly done.
Yet ME3 didn't contradict was occured in ME1 and ME2 while Shepard is still a hero.3DandBeyond wrote...
ME1 and 2 set up the standard for how ME would treat story endings and ultimately the trilogy's ending. Action was needed during conflict resolution. As was logic and coherence. Not choices and stupidity. Contradiction and illogical contrived dialogue trumped up as logic. The hero needed to remain in character and carry the emotion which should be building, the tension should be almost overwhelming when the outcome is determined, not through some conversation between half-wits, but through action and real thought.
Way too high expectations will always cause problems since biased was already established.3DandBeyond wrote...
I'll say what I've always said, just imagine some sporting event that you like where your team has gotten to the championship-the Stanley Cup, the World Cup, the Super Bowl, the World Series, or whatever. And then in the last few moments of the game, some unknown person walks in with 3 buttons and says he's the real captain of the opposing team. He gives you the option of hitting a button and that will determine how much the opposing team will win by. This person stopped the action of the game, didn't allow your team to actually try and win on their own terms, and tries to make it seem like any choice will be a win for you, even though that's not really clear. Would this be fun?
Either way nothing isn't free of sacrafice and from the beginning ME has used that.3DandBeyond wrote...
And then imagine the only other option is to refuse to press a button but then no matter what your team tries to do they lose (always) and at some future time, someone else beats that opposing team based on what your team knows. Your team was never allowed to use what it knows and always loses.
Some people will always get mad and that can't be prevented even if they get what they want. Its odd that slideshows would be bashed like this based on how frequently its used in a lot of old school RPGs and some modern games varying from genre to genre.3DandBeyond wrote...
And then, someone took pictures and you get to see a slide show of everyone being happy after the home team gives in to the opposing team.
#463
Posté 21 octobre 2012 - 06:36
Apocaleepse360
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Of course it's my opinion. I'm not one for adding "in my opinion" at the end of everything I say, because I just don't think it's necessary. At the end of the day, everything that we say that isn't a fact is our opinion.Blueprotoss wrote...
To be fair that statement is an opinion, which could be said about ME1 and ME2 as well.Apocaleepse360 wrote...
There's over the top expectations, then there's standard expectations. ME3's ending met neither of them.
#464
Posté 21 octobre 2012 - 07:23
Blueprotoss
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There's nothing with this and its nice that people can have a simple discussion on BSN. I wish more and more people would treat opinion as opinion.Apocaleepse360 wrote...
Of course it's my opinion. I'm not one for adding "in my opinion" at the end of everything I say, because I just don't think it's necessary. At the end of the day, everything that we say that isn't a fact is our opinion.Blueprotoss wrote...
To be fair that statement is an opinion, which could be said about ME1 and ME2 as well.Apocaleepse360 wrote...
There's over the top expectations, then there's standard expectations. ME3's ending met neither of them.
Modifié par Blueprotoss, 21 octobre 2012 - 07:24 .
#465
Posté 21 octobre 2012 - 07:24
The Spamming Troll
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Blueprotoss wrote...
A discussion is only impossible when the other doesn't what to discuss hence this is what you're doing.The Spamming Troll wrote...
Blueprotoss wrote...
It is always easier to insult people because anyone can do it. Either way you don't want to hear facts or opposing opinions, which is why you would rather insult people then have a simple discussion.The Spamming Troll wrote...
Blueprotoss wrote...
I see logic isn't your friend and if you really want to "play" that game then its easy to insult people instead of talking about the actual topic.
argueing with you is impossible!
id rather just insult you too.
way easier. <3
argue with you is impossible.
its all i wanted to say.
sure, lets not derail this topic with a non-discusion argueing about the facts of our own head canon.
#466
Posté 21 octobre 2012 - 07:27
Blueprotoss
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If thats the case then all of your comments would be on topic, which all of them are far from being on topic because insulting people doesn't count.The Spamming Troll wrote...
sure, lets not derail this topic with a non-discusion argueing about the facts of our own head canon.
Modifié par Blueprotoss, 21 octobre 2012 - 07:27 .
#467
Guest_magnetite_*
Posté 21 octobre 2012 - 08:11
Guest_magnetite_*
Guest_magnetite_*
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Game wasn't designed to be perfect in every way. We don't live in a utopia.
#468
Posté 22 octobre 2012 - 12:58
The Spamming Troll
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Blueprotoss wrote...
If thats the case then all of your comments would be on topic, which all of them are far from being on topic because insulting people doesn't count.The Spamming Troll wrote...
sure, lets not derail this topic with a non-discusion argueing about the facts of our own head canon.
what are we even talking about?
Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 22 octobre 2012 - 12:58 .
#469
Posté 22 octobre 2012 - 03:15
Blueprotoss
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Yep and nobody should expect the impossibe goal that perfection is especially when opinion is involved.magnetite wrote...
Game wasn't designed to be perfect in every way. We don't live in a utopia.
#470
Posté 22 octobre 2012 - 03:36
Maxster_
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And not only the ending, half of ME3 horrible.Jere85 wrote...
The ending was poorly received because it was horrible. /thread.
#471
Guest_Paulomedi_*
Posté 22 octobre 2012 - 04:08
Guest_Paulomedi_*
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I love the lack of bosses, because they are too video-gamey.
I love to get lectured by a 6-year-boy-persona with perfect logic.
I love to see a coup d'etat on the noses of the most powerful fleets of the galaxy, leaded by a space-ninja with Roxx00rz glasses.
In fact, I love battling against him, since he smashes the ground for no apparent reason, providing me cover to shoot him. It would be very, very lame if he fought running and dodging, like an actual ninja that he pretends to be (wut?).
This battle against the space ninja is so good! It can never be improved, like perhaps, letting me fight alone... just with melee attacks. This system was implemented to be situational, it must not have a moment to shine!
Ohhh I'm so much in love with this game...
I love to get lectured by a 6-year-boy-persona with perfect logic.
I love to see a coup d'etat on the noses of the most powerful fleets of the galaxy, leaded by a space-ninja with Roxx00rz glasses.
In fact, I love battling against him, since he smashes the ground for no apparent reason, providing me cover to shoot him. It would be very, very lame if he fought running and dodging, like an actual ninja that he pretends to be (wut?).
This battle against the space ninja is so good! It can never be improved, like perhaps, letting me fight alone... just with melee attacks. This system was implemented to be situational, it must not have a moment to shine!
Ohhh I'm so much in love with this game...
#472
Posté 22 octobre 2012 - 04:30
Grubas
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Blueprotoss wrote...
Yep and nobody should expect the impossibe goal that perfection is especially when opinion is involved.
Can someone translate please? Im not a native speaker...
#473
Posté 22 octobre 2012 - 06:58
locsphere
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I don't agree, I had very reasonable and open minded expectations. The let down came with claims of not getting and ABC ending... And then having to choose between an ABC ending. All Deus Machina.
The claim of a possability of 16 different endings would have been fine with 6 heck even 4 endings but the smae cut scene with different colors? Come on man. Thats just half a... Well you know.
Seeing my choices mean nothing when I was told for three games they would play out in the final conflict and none of them even being in the cut scene.
I think we should have been at least able to run around after the battle and talk t everyone. If I died due to bad choices thats fine too. But at least the CHOICE was there. At least the different ending of it being good, Neutral, bad , or worse. were no where in sight.
Sure there would have been people unhaapy, but a pole taken right here on Bioware said 90% of people hated it. There fans were called entitled by IGN, who oh yeah has an employee in the game and the EA hopped on that band wagon. BioWare implied we were Too Stupid to get it. So yeah... We hold them to their claims and we're unreasonable with unreasonable expectations.
The claim of a possability of 16 different endings would have been fine with 6 heck even 4 endings but the smae cut scene with different colors? Come on man. Thats just half a... Well you know.
Seeing my choices mean nothing when I was told for three games they would play out in the final conflict and none of them even being in the cut scene.
I think we should have been at least able to run around after the battle and talk t everyone. If I died due to bad choices thats fine too. But at least the CHOICE was there. At least the different ending of it being good, Neutral, bad , or worse. were no where in sight.
Sure there would have been people unhaapy, but a pole taken right here on Bioware said 90% of people hated it. There fans were called entitled by IGN, who oh yeah has an employee in the game and the EA hopped on that band wagon. BioWare implied we were Too Stupid to get it. So yeah... We hold them to their claims and we're unreasonable with unreasonable expectations.
#474
Posté 22 octobre 2012 - 08:15
SirLugash
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I didn't play the SP part of the demo (in order to avoid spoilers) so I had no expectations at all.
In the end I disliked the endings because of (Deus Ex Machina)² and lack of Harbinger.
Simple as that.
A lot of potential was wasted in my opinion, in ME3 and DLC also.
In the end I disliked the endings because of (Deus Ex Machina)² and lack of Harbinger.
Simple as that.
A lot of potential was wasted in my opinion, in ME3 and DLC also.
Modifié par SirLugash, 22 octobre 2012 - 08:15 .
#475
Posté 22 octobre 2012 - 08:56
rekn2
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copy/pasted this because it fits here too
the ending upset people because of its poor structure. you dont introduce an antagonist 3 minutes before the ending....why did they introduce the collectors at all in me2?
anyone with any education will tell you this. it has nothing to do with art or the anyones "feelings".
bad writing is bad writing, period. its like the more i read bsn the more i realize the "laws or rules of writing" are taken as some kind of fascist/dictatorship regime to some people. its a science. writing has laws, hard and true structures so that the writer can communicate what hes envisioned. when these are broken the plot etc makes no sense at all.
this isnt open for discussion or interpretation. these laws have been in effect for thousands of years
the ending upset people because of its poor structure. you dont introduce an antagonist 3 minutes before the ending....why did they introduce the collectors at all in me2?
anyone with any education will tell you this. it has nothing to do with art or the anyones "feelings".
bad writing is bad writing, period. its like the more i read bsn the more i realize the "laws or rules of writing" are taken as some kind of fascist/dictatorship regime to some people. its a science. writing has laws, hard and true structures so that the writer can communicate what hes envisioned. when these are broken the plot etc makes no sense at all.
this isnt open for discussion or interpretation. these laws have been in effect for thousands of years
