Aller au contenu

Photo

real reason the endings were poorly recieved


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
689 réponses à ce sujet

#651
drayfish

drayfish
  • Members
  • 1 211 messages

Tali-vas-normandy wrote...

Look Im gonna say this hoping someone at bioware or casey himself will ready this

Casey the ending you're idea was alright, but I feel that most of us gamers are not really ready for you're vision, some gamers are so used to just have stright up boss fights, and then an epic hero poses, that when anything new and altering comes along it becomes overwhelimg, you're vision might be more beneficial for future gamers then for us.

When you are brought up in a certain way taht's the only thing you can cope with mostly unless you adapt but I don't think the gaming industry is ready for that change yet.


I appreciate your sentiment, but I would not put it in the context of the fans failing Bioware.

Their 'vision' may well have worked - a vision of an equal, tolerant future: of synthesis validating all life, of destroy rebuilding from the ashes of what was lost; of control ushering in a brave new world (pun intentional) - but the way that it was employed was ghastly, and reveals a fundamental lacking of storytelling.

Why did these universe-altering changes have to me forced upon people unwillingly?  Why did Shepard have to visit unspeakable crimes against his own allies in order to 'do what needs to be done'?

Making synthesis an involuntary mutation of people against their will, rather than a choice that they can freely make, robs it of the poetry I assume it was going for.  Rather than a sign of rebirth, it is a sickening devolution - arrogantly wiping diversity from the universe. 

Likewise, they could have made destroy have a devastating blast radius would have given a hefty death toll, without further poisoning the result by forcing Shepard to commit an act of genocide that makes him/her a war criminal, proving him/herself to be willing to use the Reapers own tactics to win.

And having Shepard willing to believe what the Reaper King tells him about becoming the Uber-Reaper in Control is currently presented as intensely naive, considering that the Illusive Man was just killed, moments before, for believing precisely the same thing.  ...And that's leaving aside the whole becoming-an-unstoppable-totalitarian-god thing.

I'm making wild assumptions now, but to me this whole thing smacks of rushed, insular writing.  I feel like any editor, critic, or fellow writer would have been able to express and correct these concerns had the narrative gone through a proper peer-review process.

The fact that anyone thought that a heroic tale, defined by freedom and player choice, should end with an arbitrary moral compromise that reduces the protagonist to the enemy's errand boy and validates intolerance is mystifying.

#652
hiraeth

hiraeth
  • Members
  • 1 055 messages

Tali-vas-normandy wrote...

Look Im gonna say this hoping someone at bioware or casey himself will ready this

Casey the ending you're idea was alright, but I feel that most of us gamers are not really ready for you're vision, some gamers are so used to just have stright up boss fights, and then an epic hero poses, that when anything new and altering comes along it becomes overwhelimg, you're vision might be more beneficial for future gamers then for us.

When you are brought up in a certain way taht's the only thing you can cope with mostly unless you adapt but I don't think the gaming industry is ready for that change yet.



i mean, i suppose it's possible that some people are incapable of/unwilling to adapt to change, or incapable of/unwilling to accept novel ideas, or very resistant to any ending that doesn't fit the "hero's victorious journey" template. but that's only one aspect and it doesn't do justice to the complexity of the ending backlash. to reduce all of the narrative inconsistencies, plotholes, sudden changes in tone, etc. to "we weren't ready for casey's vision" is a bit ridiculous.

when you said, "brought up in a certain way" i wasn't sure if you meant upbringing as in personal upbringing ("how i was raised" and "my general experiences across my life") or video game upbringing ("my experiences with all the other video games i've played"). if it's the latter, then i don't really buy it because i think a lot of us have played games with non-traditional endings that didn't completely crash and burn like ME3's.

ultimately most of the complaints are related to in-game content/gameplay/story, not individual gamers' personality/ability to adapt to novel ideas. personally, there have been plenty of times when i've seen something totally new and non-traditional and i loved it...but in most of these cases, the novel ideas were appropriately introduced and executed well. 

#653
hiraeth

hiraeth
  • Members
  • 1 055 messages

drayfish wrote...

I appreciate your sentiment, but I would not put it in the context of the fans failing Bioware.

Their 'vision' may well have worked - a vision of an equal, tolerant future: of synthesis validating all life, of destroy rebuilding from the ashes of what was lost; of control ushering in a brave new world (pun intentional) - but the way that it was employed was ghastly, and reveals a fundamental lacking of storytelling.

...

I'm making wild assumptions now, but to me this whole thing smacks of rushed, insular writing.  I feel like any editor, critic, or fellow writer would have been able to express and correct these concerns had the narrative gone through a proper peer-review process.


agreed- to me it's more about the poor execution of the ideas, not the ideas themselves or the notion that the ideas were novel/non-traditional.

#654
ld1449

ld1449
  • Members
  • 2 254 messages

Tali-vas-normandy wrote...

Look Im gonna say this hoping someone at bioware or casey himself will ready this

Casey the ending you're idea was alright, but I feel that most of us gamers are not really ready for you're vision, some gamers are so used to just have stright up boss fights, and then an epic hero poses, that when anything new and altering comes along it becomes overwhelimg, you're vision might be more beneficial for future gamers then for us.

When you are brought up in a certain way taht's the only thing you can cope with mostly unless you adapt but I don't think the gaming industry is ready for that change yet.



Oh please.

<_<

The ending is little more than Casey ripping off of his favorite game from 2000.

Not ready for it? Unable to cope?

I don't know about you but I read and watch a hell of a lot more than games many with endings far more ambitious than this.

The ending isn't "controvertial" it isn't an inspiration for thought.

Its just bad, flat out bad, plagiarised from a much better game and implemented in one of the most shoddy ways immaginable.

It sucked before the EC, it sucks after the EC.

There was no vision. And there is nothing complex about it. Its a thief's work who was ever only as good as the people around him were.

Drew left, the narrative dirrector left, and all that remained were two best buds circle jerking eachother like they were gods gift to videogames.

Modifié par ld1449, 31 octobre 2012 - 08:49 .


#655
Guest_Fandango_*

Guest_Fandango_*
  • Guests
Image IPBnvm

Modifié par Fandango9641, 31 octobre 2012 - 10:40 .


#656
silverexile17s

silverexile17s
  • Members
  • 2 547 messages

drayfish wrote...

Tali-vas-normandy wrote...

Look Im gonna say this hoping someone at bioware or casey himself will ready this

Casey the ending you're idea was alright, but I feel that most of us gamers are not really ready for you're vision, some gamers are so used to just have stright up boss fights, and then an epic hero poses, that when anything new and altering comes along it becomes overwhelimg, you're vision might be more beneficial for future gamers then for us.

When you are brought up in a certain way taht's the only thing you can cope with mostly unless you adapt but I don't think the gaming industry is ready for that change yet.


I appreciate your sentiment, but I would not put it in the context of the fans failing Bioware.

Their 'vision' may well have worked - a vision of an equal, tolerant future: of synthesis validating all life, of destroy rebuilding from the ashes of what was lost; of control ushering in a brave new world (pun intentional) - but the way that it was employed was ghastly, and reveals a fundamental lacking of storytelling.

Why did these universe-altering changes have to me forced upon people unwillingly?  Why did Shepard have to visit unspeakable crimes against his own allies in order to 'do what needs to be done'?

Making synthesis an involuntary mutation of people against their will, rather than a choice that they can freely make, robs it of the poetry I assume it was going for.  Rather than a sign of rebirth, it is a sickening devolution - arrogantly wiping diversity from the universe. 

Likewise, they could have made destroy have a devastating blast radius would have given a hefty death toll, without further poisoning the result by forcing Shepard to commit an act of genocide that makes him/her a war criminal, proving him/herself to be willing to use the Reapers own tactics to win.

And having Shepard willing to believe what the Reaper King tells him about becoming the Uber-Reaper in Control is currently presented as intensely naive, considering that the Illusive Man was just killed, moments before, for believing precisely the same thing.  ...And that's leaving aside the whole becoming-an-unstoppable-totalitarian-god thing.

I'm making wild assumptions now, but to me this whole thing smacks of rushed, insular writing.  I feel like any editor, critic, or fellow writer would have been able to express and correct these concerns had the narrative gone through a proper peer-review process.

The fact that anyone thought that a heroic tale, defined by freedom and player choice, should end with an arbitrary moral compromise that reduces the protagonist to the enemy's errand boy and validates intolerance is mystifying.

I truly could not have expressed it better myself. These are the fundimental flaws that plauge the endings. The EC expanded on them, but the fundimental issues were left untouched. If they had been exicuted differently, like @MassEffectShep said, they could have been good, maybe even great. But as is, they are an insulting way to end the series.
Then there was that "Refuse" option. In instant lose that either FORCES you to go against everything you were fighting for, one way or another, or lose everything and watch everyone die.
That was, in laymens terms, a dick move I never thought I'd see from BioWare.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 01 novembre 2012 - 06:46 .


#657
silverexile17s

silverexile17s
  • Members
  • 2 547 messages

ld1449 wrote...

Tali-vas-normandy wrote...

Look Im gonna say this hoping someone at bioware or casey himself will ready this

Casey the ending you're idea was alright, but I feel that most of us gamers are not really ready for you're vision, some gamers are so used to just have stright up boss fights, and then an epic hero poses, that when anything new and altering comes along it becomes overwhelimg, you're vision might be more beneficial for future gamers then for us.

When you are brought up in a certain way taht's the only thing you can cope with mostly unless you adapt but I don't think the gaming industry is ready for that change yet.



Oh please.

<_<

The ending is little more than Casey ripping off of his favorite game from 2000.

Not ready for it? Unable to cope?

I don't know about you but I read and watch a hell of a lot more than games many with endings far more ambitious than this.

The ending isn't "controvertial" it isn't an inspiration for thought.

Its just bad, flat out bad, plagiarised from a much better game and implemented in one of the most shoddy ways immaginable.

It sucked before the EC, it sucks after the EC.

There was no vision. And there is nothing complex about it. Its a thief's work who was ever only as good as the people around him were.

Drew left, the narrative dirrector left, and all that remained were two best buds circle jerking eachother like they were gods gift to videogames.

Don't forget the co-founders leaving, saying they planed to retire since April...  during the uproar.

#658
obibenjedi

obibenjedi
  • Members
  • 69 messages

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Blueprotoss is the most hilarious guy on BSN.


Possibly if he's like 14 with no social life. If he's an adult needs to get a grip!-_-

#659
silverexile17s

silverexile17s
  • Members
  • 2 547 messages

obibenjedi wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Blueprotoss is the most hilarious guy on BSN.


Possibly if he's like 14 with no social life. If he's an adult needs to get a grip!-_-

In a post with me, he stated that he's been a fan of Star Wars for twenty years. So he's at least mid-twenties to early-thirties at the most.
Yet, despite clames of being a fan of Star Wars for so long, he thinks that Star Wars is multiple galaxies, instead of a galaxy broken up into seperat time periods, claiming that Republic Commando, Knights of the Old Republic, and The Force Unleashed all take place in seperate galaxies, despite the fact that the wookiee homeworld of Kashyyyk is in ALL three games.
HOW anyone could mistake the Timeline of the (single, one and ONLY) Star Wars Galaxy for a set of multiple galaxies is beyond me, if he's been a fan as long as he says.

#660
Eterna

Eterna
  • Members
  • 7 417 messages

obibenjedi wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Blueprotoss is the most hilarious guy on BSN.


Possibly if he's like 14 with no social life. If he's an adult needs to get a grip!-_-


Get over yourself. Stop being so condescending to him just becuse he has a different viewpoint. 

#661
obibenjedi

obibenjedi
  • Members
  • 69 messages
No not because of his view point, because he is obviously just out to argue and wined up people !

#662
Eterna

Eterna
  • Members
  • 7 417 messages

obibenjedi wrote...

No not because of his view point, because he is obviously just out to argue and wined up people !


Only because you give him the power to do so. 

#663
Guest_A Bethesda Fan_*

Guest_A Bethesda Fan_*
  • Guests

Eterna5 wrote...

obibenjedi wrote...

No not because of his view point, because he is obviously just out to argue and wined up people !


Only because you give him the power to do so. 


Eterna5 has a point, if you ignore his idiotic rantings instead you will be free.
Like me, I ignored him from since the first time I debated with him and I never looked back.
You can still post about him but just don't get involved in his craziness like some people.

#664
Guest_A Bethesda Fan_*

Guest_A Bethesda Fan_*
  • Guests

silverexile17s wrote...

obibenjedi wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Blueprotoss is the most hilarious guy on BSN.


Possibly if he's like 14 with no social life. If he's an adult needs to get a grip!-_-

In a post with me, he stated that he's been a fan of Star Wars for twenty years. So he's at least mid-twenties to early-thirties at the most.
Yet, despite clames of being a fan of Star Wars for so long, he thinks that Star Wars is multiple galaxies, instead of a galaxy broken up into seperat time periods, claiming that Republic Commando, Knights of the Old Republic, and The Force Unleashed all take place in seperate galaxies, despite the fact that the wookiee homeworld of Kashyyyk is in ALL three games.
HOW anyone could mistake the Timeline of the (single, one and ONLY) Star Wars Galaxy for a set of multiple galaxies is beyond me, if he's been a fan as long as he says.


Don't argue with him about that, he will probably dig a hole to china.

#665
Neizd

Neizd
  • Members
  • 859 messages
OP this is not a real reason. The reason is bad writting. The original ending just showed you Shepard choice without telling you what happened to your crew (even EC doesn't do this, you only get some slideshows and they don't explain everything). It wasn't that the hype for the game was to big. It's just that they failed.

#666
Blueprotoss

Blueprotoss
  • Members
  • 3 378 messages

MassEffectFShep wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

1. That's the POINT. It's NOT anger, it's dissapointment. After the high notes that ME2 and DA:O ended on, people expected to get a satisfying conclusion to the story they crafted for years. There was no warning that the ending would be SO damn bittersweet, that it woul nearly KILL the desire to replay, or import. At this point, they DO dislike the ending, but it's mostly because they are dissapointed. Sure, there is still anger in there, but it's the minroaty at this point.


Yet there is more anger then disappointment thats present here.  If it was really disappointment then you would have moved on already.


i disagree with this statement- the effects of disappointment can linger for a long time. i can recall several movies/games with endings that didn't anger or irritate me, just primarily disappointed me and/or didn't meet my expectations, and i still feel disappointed in them and could still go on long rants about why they disappointed me.

the reality of the situation is that it's probably a really complex mix of emotions that can't be dumbed down efficiently into one or two words or emotions.

Disappointment will always linger just like how some people have been angry at ME since Baldur's Gate 2 or ME1.  Everyone can't be pleased while some people shouldn't expect to like everything.

#667
Blueprotoss

Blueprotoss
  • Members
  • 3 378 messages

Da_old_Boss wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Da_old_Boss wrote...

Do you guys even remember what you were originally arguing about? 
Cuz now it looks like you're just insulting each other.

I'm not inslting anyone but I do know that he's way off topic, which surprising happens a lot on forums when some people have differing views and personal tastes.

But do you remember the topic at all?

Its easy to remember what the topic is when its at the top of the page and without insulting people.

#668
Blueprotoss

Blueprotoss
  • Members
  • 3 378 messages

A Bethesda Fan wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Only because you give him the power to do so. 


Eterna5 has a point, if you ignore his idiotic rantings instead you will be free.
Like me, I ignored him from since the first time I debated with him and I never looked back.
You can still post about him but just don't get involved in his craziness like some people.

Maybe you should practice what you preach because insulting people with different views and tastes whether its fact or opinion based is a bad idea.

A Bethesda Fan wrote...

Don't argue with him about that, he will probably dig a hole to china.

Yet I'm not angry at all.  Its too bad that some people don't want to talk. 

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 02 novembre 2012 - 12:04 .


#669
Grubas

Grubas
  • Members
  • 2 315 messages

arial wrote...

 The real reason the ending(s) were poorly recieved is quite simple.

since the day ME3 was anounced, people started speculating on what features it would have, how the story would progress, etc.

It came to the state where No game could realisticly match what fans expected.

When the game finally came out, and it could not live up to what people were sure it would be, people looked for every possible reason to blame for their dissatisfaction.

Heated discussions and unrealistic expectations are normal for a project of this magnitude. Just think of the costs.
 
Usually things get serious when developer fails to adress even the lowest expectations. When it comes to the endings i was underwhelmed on every possible level, gameplay even more then story.
Thus i think your single observation is not enough to explain why the endings have been poorly recieved.





 

#670
silverexile17s

silverexile17s
  • Members
  • 2 547 messages

A Bethesda Fan wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

obibenjedi wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Blueprotoss is the most hilarious guy on BSN.


Possibly if he's like 14 with no social life. If he's an adult needs to get a grip!-_-

In a post with me, he stated that he's been a fan of Star Wars for twenty years. So he's at least mid-twenties to early-thirties at the most.
Yet, despite clames of being a fan of Star Wars for so long, he thinks that Star Wars is multiple galaxies, instead of a galaxy broken up into seperat time periods, claiming that Republic Commando, Knights of the Old Republic, and The Force Unleashed all take place in seperate galaxies, despite the fact that the wookiee homeworld of Kashyyyk is in ALL three games.
HOW anyone could mistake the Timeline of the (single, one and ONLY) Star Wars Galaxy for a set of multiple galaxies is beyond me, if he's been a fan as long as he says.


Don't argue with him about that, he will probably dig a hole to china.

A thousand years too late for that advice.:whistle:

#671
silverexile17s

silverexile17s
  • Members
  • 2 547 messages

Blueprotoss wrote...

MassEffectFShep wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

1. That's the POINT. It's NOT anger, it's dissapointment. After the high notes that ME2 and DA:O ended on, people expected to get a satisfying conclusion to the story they crafted for years. There was no warning that the ending would be SO damn bittersweet, that it woul nearly KILL the desire to replay, or import. At this point, they DO dislike the ending, but it's mostly because they are dissapointed. Sure, there is still anger in there, but it's the minroaty at this point.


Yet there is more anger then disappointment thats present here.  If it was really disappointment then you would have moved on already.


i disagree with this statement- the effects of disappointment can linger for a long time. i can recall several movies/games with endings that didn't anger or irritate me, just primarily disappointed me and/or didn't meet my expectations, and i still feel disappointed in them and could still go on long rants about why they disappointed me.

the reality of the situation is that it's probably a really complex mix of emotions that can't be dumbed down efficiently into one or two words or emotions.

Disappointment will always linger just like how some people have been angry at ME since Baldur's Gate 2 or ME1.  Everyone can't be pleased while some people shouldn't expect to like everything.

But it's not anger at that. And I recall no anger to Baldur's Gate 2. It was a good game.
It's all dissapointment at this point. Not anger or hatrid.

#672
silverexile17s

silverexile17s
  • Members
  • 2 547 messages

Blueprotoss wrote...

Da_old_Boss wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Da_old_Boss wrote...

Do you guys even remember what you were originally arguing about? 
Cuz now it looks like you're just insulting each other.

I'm not inslting anyone but I do know that he's way off topic, which surprising happens a lot on forums when some people have differing views and personal tastes.

But do you remember the topic at all?

Its easy to remember what the topic is when its at the top of the page and without insulting people.

You didn't answer the question. What was the topic?

#673
silverexile17s

silverexile17s
  • Members
  • 2 547 messages

Blueprotoss wrote...

A Bethesda Fan wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Only because you give him the power to do so. 


Eterna5 has a point, if you ignore his idiotic rantings instead you will be free.
Like me, I ignored him from since the first time I debated with him and I never looked back.
You can still post about him but just don't get involved in his craziness like some people.

Maybe you should practice what you preach because insulting people with different views and tastes whether its fact or opinion based is a bad idea.

A Bethesda Fan wrote...

Don't argue with him about that, he will probably dig a hole to china.

Yet I'm not angry at all.  Its too bad that some people don't want to talk. 

1. That's what they were DOING. They were telling them not to get into these near-pointless fights with you as it wil just loop on forever.
2. Your consatnt accusations of strawmen, red herrings and lies discoruge any civil talks with you. You call everyone liers in all but name, just because you can't get them to believe in your "Logic."

Modifié par silverexile17s, 02 novembre 2012 - 08:52 .


#674
LiarasShield

LiarasShield
  • Members
  • 6 924 messages
Well the reason why me3s ending wasn't that good to alot of people has mainly to do with the misleading advertizements before release

#675
KingZayd

KingZayd
  • Members
  • 5 344 messages
the real reason is that the endings were poor and still are poor.