200 réponses à ce sujet

[JCAP]

 Let me explain:

In DA:O, the npc's treat you differently according to the sex that you chose, the most obvious example is Alistair, with a male warden he treated him like a comrade in arms, and with a female he was more "flirty". We could notice that difference not only in our companions, but in the others npc's too.

In DA II, male and female Hawke are treated very similarly, the only difference I remember now is when we meet that mercenary that help us enter the city (and during love scenes with the companions).

I know this might be a little silly, but every little detail helps making a great work (hopefully, DA III will be a masterpiece  ).

What do you think?

(sorry my English)

Modifié par JCAP, 08 octobre 2012 - 09:39 .

[mousestalker]

Choice of sex can have more weight. If you create a male character, he appears to weigh at least ten percent more than the female character for that race. This holds true in both DAO and DA2.

[JCAP]

mousestalker wrote...

Choice of sex can have more weight. If you create a male character, he appears to weigh at least ten percent more than the female character for that race. This holds true in both DAO and DA2.

ooohhh c'mon XD, in portuguese we use the same word for weight and burden, give me a discount...

[FINE HERE]

I agree completely. I hate games that give you the illusion that your character choice matter, especially with gender.
I posted somewhere before about a RPG I played where my female PC had 'seductive' hair, eyes, and voice. Then I went to talk to a quest giver who was known as a playboy by all the NPCs and he said absolutely nothing flirty or demeaning to my PC. He didn't even acknowledge that the PC was female. It took me out of the game completely.

[Battlebloodmage]

FINE HERE wrote...

I agree completely. I hate games that give you the illusion that your character choice matter, especially with gender.
I posted somewhere before about a RPG I played where my female PC had 'seductive' hair, eyes, and voice. Then I went to talk to a quest giver who was known as a playboy by all the NPCs and he said absolutely nothing flirty or demeaning to my PC. He didn't even acknowledge that the PC was female. It took me out of the game completely.

You forgot that the virgin apostate who will flirt with your character if you're female. The NPC also has different things to say like if you ask Anders moves in as a male, Hawke's uncle jokes that it's clear who's the female in the relationship while if you were a female, he will say that you are your mother's daughter. I like that there are variations, but I would prefer for the PC to be treated as equal regardless of gender.

Modifié par Battlebloodmage, 08 octobre 2012 - 09:28 .

[Maria Caliban]

mousestalker wrote...

Choice of sex can have more weight. If you create a male character, he appears to weigh at least ten percent more than the female character for that race. This holds true in both DAO and DA2.

In TOR, the tallest female body-type is the same height as the shorted male body type, and the heavy male body-type is about twice the size of the heavy female body-type.

I wasn't pleased.

[whykikyouwhy]

I quite enjoy that PC gender isn't much of a conversation/behavior trigger in the DA games. I like that my character is viewed by how (s)he acts and by what (s)he does than what (s)he happens to look like. It breaks things down to a common human/mortal level - that an assessment of a person is made by their merit, and how they conduct themselves.

[Firky]

JCAP wrote...

In DA:O, the npc's treat you differently according to the sex that you chose, the most obvious example is Alistair, with a male warden he treated him like a comrade in arms, and with a female he was more "flirty".

That's interesting. I'm not disputing it but I had exactly the opposite impression of Alistair. I played male first and always thought he was being borderline flirty (to the point where I guessed he was a female romance option around Lothering.)

I might have a squiz in the toolset and try to find proof either way ...

[highcastle]

FINE HERE wrote...

I agree completely. I hate games that give you the illusion that your character choice matter, especially with gender.
I posted somewhere before about a RPG I played where my female PC had 'seductive' hair, eyes, and voice. Then I went to talk to a quest giver who was known as a playboy by all the NPCs and he said absolutely nothing flirty or demeaning to my PC. He didn't even acknowledge that the PC was female. It took me out of the game completely.

See, those are exactly the sort of differences I don't want. Why should male PCs objectify a main character who--judging by past BioWare games--is probably walking around armed to the teeth and reputed to be a competent warrior, rogue, or mage. Come on. The gal can't get a bit of respect?

Seriously, though, I really don't want to see differences in how the genders are treated if it comes down to objectifying the female PC. Look at Vega in ME3. Every single dialogue had him calling femme Shep "Lola" and flirting with her even though she was a commanding officer. Or look at how Anders' romance varies wildly between m!Hawke and f!Hawke. With the latter we got lots of warnings about how Anders would hurt her. He didn't feel the need to give that same spiel to a male Hawke. 

[Fox In The Box]

Firky wrote...

That's interesting. I'm not disputing it but I had exactly the opposite impression of Alistair. I played male first and always thought he was being borderline flirty (to the point where I guessed he was a female romance option around Lothering.)

I might have a squiz in the toolset and try to find proof either way ...

The tension between him and my male PC seemed positively homoerotic at times, but it might have just been wishful thinking on my side.

[mesmerizedish]

I don't want gender to have any impact beyond allowing me to play the character I want to play.

[formaristarry]

The difference is still there in DA2, it's just handled more subtly. Instead of an npc outright saying, "You're a woman." like Jory and Daveth do in DAO, they sometimes just say different things depending on gender and don't point it out so obviously. Lirene has a different line when asking about Anders that depends on gender, so do a lot of the companions in non love scenes, like when meeting Isabela and you choose the sarcastic option. Vincento when you look at his wares, I'm sure there are other instances, but these are off the top of my head.

The only time I would've liked to have seen a major difference or blatant pointing out was with the Arishok and how he talks to you, since we learn in DAO from Sten how the Qunari view women's roles. Gender aside, I would've also liked it if he reacted in some way when he found out you're a mage.

Funny side note: When I did the Finding Nathaniel quest and Carver was with him as a grey warden, I was a female and he called me brother.

[Quicksilver26]

FINE HERE wrote...

I agree completely. I hate games that give you the illusion that your character choice matter, especially with gender.
I posted somewhere before about a RPG I played where my female PC had 'seductive' hair, eyes, and voice. Then I went to talk to a quest giver who was known as a playboy by all the NPCs and he said absolutely nothing flirty or demeaning to my PC. He didn't even acknowledge that the PC was female. It took me out of the game completely.

huh  i think the lack of sexiesm is a good thing <_<

[Sable Rhapsody]

OP, it's a good suggestion, but also a whole barrel of worms.

If you have differences in dialogue for female vs. male PCs, you'll get people crying sexist, no matter how innocuous the difference is.  If the dialogue's the same, it's clearly unrealistic.  What's a dev to do?

IMO the DA2 approach worked reasonably well, where the dialogue differences were present but more subtle.

[FINE HERE]

Quicksilver26 wrote...

FINE HERE wrote...

I agree completely. I hate games that give you the illusion that your character choice matter, especially with gender.
I posted somewhere before about a RPG I played where my female PC had 'seductive' hair, eyes, and voice. Then I went to talk to a quest giver who was known as a playboy by all the NPCs and he said absolutely nothing flirty or demeaning to my PC. He didn't even acknowledge that the PC was female. It took me out of the game completely.

huh  i think the lack of sexiesm is a good thing <_<

Don't get me wrong, I don't support sexism. There are jerks and people like that in the real world, so why couldn't they exist in a fantasy setting? Just because the game has a jerk spouting sexism nonsense doesn't mean its supporting it. I just want it to feel more like there's a difference and the game acknowledges my choice. There will always be people who just can't stop themselves from being sexist or racist. (It's okay to have characters who look down on elves as a race, but not for characters to demean women or men?)

As per my example, it was like this, "Really? You built this guy up as a jerk that uses women and hits on them relentlessly, yet he doesn't notice my female PC with all 'seductive' character creation choices?" Why built him up as that sort of a character if it doesn't effect his dialog or attitude towards my character?

If they would acknowledge genders in other ways, then great. I just want my choices to feel like they matter, including gender.

*Edited* How did I mix that up...?

Modifié par FINE HERE, 08 octobre 2012 - 10:32 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

FINE HERE wrote...
If they would acknowledge races in other ways, then great. I just want my choices to feel like they matter, including gender.

And besides, even if the genders were flipped (ie; your shirtless male PC walked up to a shameless flirt female NPC and got a sleazy response) the analogy still holds.  It's less about sexism and more about the fact that gender affects response.  And it should for both male and female PCs.  That IMO is a perfectly reasonable request, just one that's difficult to implement well.

[Zkyire]

Quicksilver26 wrote...

FINE HERE wrote...

I agree completely. I hate games that give you the illusion that your character choice matter, especially with gender.
I posted somewhere before about a RPG I played where my female PC had 'seductive' hair, eyes, and voice. Then I went to talk to a quest giver who was known as a playboy by all the NPCs and he said absolutely nothing flirty or demeaning to my PC. He didn't even acknowledge that the PC was female. It took me out of the game completely.

huh  i think the lack of sexiesm is a good thing <_<

A man flirting with a woman is not sexism.

Jesus.

[XCelfa]

I'm sorry, but one of the best things about Bioware games is that the NPCs rarely treat me any differently because I am female. Never change, BW. Never change.

To the bro above: maybe not, but if the advances are unwanted, it is harrassment.

Modifié par XCelfa, 08 octobre 2012 - 10:39 .

[Henioo]

What's more important, if the Origins return, I'd like to be able to look the part, and speak the part.

In DA:O there's barely any difference between genders, and little more for species. Like, my Dalish elf and human noble have exactly the same conversation option regarding topics like politics, religion, and so on.

So many times I wanted to say something fitting my character, but couldn't.

[XCelfa]

Henioo wrote...

What's more important, if the Origins return, I'd like to be able to look the part, and speak the part.

In DA:O there's barely any difference between genders, and little more for species. Like, my Dalish elf and human noble have exactly the same conversation option regarding topics like politics, religion, and so on.

So many times I wanted to say something fitting my character, but couldn't.

I am just dying to know: Are you female? Somehow I highly doubt it. I find that my gender has little influence on how I behave or speak in my daily life.

[Zkyire]

XCelfa wrote...

Henioo wrote...

What's more important, if the Origins return, I'd like to be able to look the part, and speak the part.

In DA:O there's barely any difference between genders, and little more for species. Like, my Dalish elf and human noble have exactly the same conversation option regarding topics like politics, religion, and so on.

So many times I wanted to say something fitting my character, but couldn't.

I am just dying to know: Are you female? Somehow I highly doubt it. I find that my gender has little influence on how I behave or speak in my daily life.

Your gender has little influence on how you behave or speak.. yet you conclude that the poster you quoted isn't female based on what he/she said.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Definitely but it's not going to happen because Bioware is too scared to offend.

"I don't want my female character being treated differently or even referred to as a woman. Women are men too."

Not on my world. Having a character reference the PC's gender isn't sexism of any kind.

"Dragon Age 2 referenced the PC's gender though!"

Not as much as Origins which is why not many people remember. The City Elf origin in Origins was a prime example of just one part in Origins where gender is referenced and even impacts the game. Add more stuff like that if races aren't returning otherwise there's really no difference between genders other than aesthetic differences.

"Which is good because women are the same gender as men and both should be viewed as the same."

Not really. If I want an RPG where your choice of gender doesn't matter then I'd play the countless RPG's on the market with this "feature." In a game boasting that customization choice matters I'd expect to see some reference at least.

Mass Effect 2 boasted that the gameplay experience is different as each gender but it's not. Your gender only influenced who you could romance and now that's gone from Bioware games because everyone is PC-sexual or bisexual (take your pick).

The Qunari don't view women as warriors. Having The Arishocker make a note of this to a female Hawke would have added to the narrative and supported the lore. Origins had this with Sten and I'm putting it down to rushed development time with DA2 for the reason it was excluded. So even if only Qunari recognize gender, I'll be happy.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 08 octobre 2012 - 10:53 .

[XCelfa]

Zkyire wrote...

XCelfa wrote...

Henioo wrote...

What's more important, if the Origins return, I'd like to be able to look the part, and speak the part.

In DA:O there's barely any difference between genders, and little more for species. Like, my Dalish elf and human noble have exactly the same conversation option regarding topics like politics, religion, and so on.

So many times I wanted to say something fitting my character, but couldn't.

I am just dying to know: Are you female? Somehow I highly doubt it. I find that my gender has little influence on how I behave or speak in my daily life.

Your gender has little influence on how you behave or speak.. yet you conclude that the poster you quoted isn't female based on what he/she said.

Only because s/he assumed that gender was like a ground-breaking decision maker for the way you act or talk. Women aren't mystical unicorns, we're flesh and blood human beings like everyone else. If I ask someone for a cookie, I won't rub my boobs on them to get it. KWIM?

Nice try, though.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

FINE HERE wrote...
If they would acknowledge races in other ways, then great. I just want my choices to feel like they matter, including gender.

And besides, even if the genders were flipped (ie; your shirtless male PC walked up to a shameless flirt female NPC and got a sleazy response) the analogy still holds.  It's less about sexism and more about the fact that gender affects response.  And it should for both male and female PCs.  That IMO is a perfectly reasonable request, just one that's difficult to implement well.

Exactly and I know the experience the other poster is referring to. Now imagine a scenario where there's a woman saying she hates and mistrusts all men and your character is male and she doesn't even reference that. That's just breaking the character of that NPC. Meanwhile she tells your character everything you ask which further breaks the story behind that character.

Dragon's Dogma was similar to recent Bioware games in terms of both genders being viewed the same but even so, gender impacted gameplay, certain items could only be worn by male or female characters and there were a group of female bandits who would refuse to speak to male characters and would become violent with them.

But in the magical world of BSN, acknowledgement of gender doesn't even exist so why should it in DA3?

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 08 octobre 2012 - 10:53 .

[XCelfa]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Definitely but it's not going to happen because Bioware is too scared to offend.
"I don't want my female character being treated differently or even referred to as a woman. Women are men too."
Not on my world. Having a character reference the PC's gender isn't sexism of any kind.

"Dragon Age 2 referenced the PC's gender though!"

Not as much as Origins which is why not many people remember. The City Elf origin in Origins was a prime example of just one part in Origins where gender is referenced and even impacts the game. Add more stuff like that if races aren't returning otherwise there's really no difference between genders other than aesthetic differences.

"Which is good because women are the same gender as men and both should be viewed as the same."

Not really. If I want an RPG where your choice of gender doesn't matter then I'd play the countless RPG's on the market with this "feature." In a game boasting that customization choice matters I'd expect to see some reference at least.

Mass Effect 2 boasted that the gameplay experience is different as each gender but it's not. Your gender only influenced who you could romance and now that's gone from Bioware games because everyone is PC-sexual or bisexual (take your pick).

The Qunari don't view women as warriors. Having The Arishocker make a note of this to a female Hawke would have added to the narrative and supported the lore. Origins had this with Sten and I'm putting it down to rushed development time with DA2 for the reason it was excluded. So even if only Qunari recognize gender, I'll be happy.

/rubs temples

The Arishok did initially refuse combat with Hawke if Isabela didn't return with the tome and if Hawke was female. If Fenris was in your party, he spoke their jibberish and eventually the Arishok was convinced to fight.

But in the magical world of BSN, acknowledgement of gender doesn't even exist so why should it in DA3?

Mmm, yesss... dudebro tears sustain me. Complain more about women being treated like people.. unnghhh I won't have to eat dinner at this rate.

Modifié par XCelfa, 08 octobre 2012 - 10:57 .