200 réponses à ce sujet

[XCelfa]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Weren't you reading my posts?

Dragon's Dogma.

There's female NPC's in that game who hate men and think they're inferior. I didn't have a problem with that. It's just a game.

Wow, Sten's comment offended you? Yet the tons of murdering, rape in The City Elf origin, killing and demonic possession of children (and potential slayings of them) didn't offend you? Again you're missing people's comments in your blind anger. Several people have even said how a male can be referenced (and how a male should be referenced too).

No one has brought up sexism so stop pretending to be persecuted.

If you think that I'm angry, maybe you need to leave your house more.

The fact that you don't think this is sexism, that you don't think any of these responding comments to my posts have been sexist at all, is evidence enough that this is going nowhere. You have your "lol silly woman has EMOTIONS" blinders on and you won't take anything I say seriously because you're getting defensive.

[Blessed Silence]

Henioo wrote...

What's more important, if the Origins return, I'd like to be able to look the part, and speak the part.

In DA:O there's barely any difference between genders, and little more for species. Like, my Dalish elf and human noble have exactly the same conversation option regarding topics like politics, religion, and so on.

So many times I wanted to say something fitting my character, but couldn't.

I actually wouldn't have minded more different responses based on my race than gender.  I mean, humans aren't supposed to like elves right?  At lease city ones I think.  So why isn't that portrayed?  Would have made sense in that fantasy setting (and given me more reason to show that person up for whatever reason).

But I just felt ... eh ... like "one of the guys" so to speak.  Not very immersive when I played an elf or dwarf.

And for me, I think having NPCs react to gender is fine.  But then it's is all personal preference.  Gonna bold that.  Because that seems to be the sticking point here.

EDIT:  And going to throw in I'm female, despite my sexy Admiral Hackett pic.  And I don't mind at all my female character being hit on .. why?  Cause it's a game.  A game where I could get a response to punch that guy or girl or .. whatever out for doing what they did.  Can't do that in real life!

What one person doesn't mind, another finds sexist.  So yeah no middle ground here I think.  *shrugs*

Modifié par Blessed Silence, 08 octobre 2012 - 11:29 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

XCelfa wrote...
It's not a high horse, merely a different horse. Not once have I stated that females are superior. And no, being a woman is not something you understand. 

I'm taking issue with a bunch of male gamers trying to dictate and remove one of my favorite aspects of a BW game: being treated like my gender doesn't matter. Apparently that is too radical an idea for the poster that hinted he wanted to be able to be flirted with and whatnot.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Fiacre wrote...
I'd also like to mention that I have no doubt that there are women that would appreciate more distinction between sexes, and I highly doubt it's a male only thing. Things are rarely quite so neatly divided, so maybe we shouldn't generalize quite so much.

*raises hand*

Yes, please, I would like NPCs to react to character choices like class, gender, race, major roleplaying choices, etc.  Also, I'm apparently a unicorn.  And a "male gamer trying to dictate and remove" elements of gameplay 

I love BSN 

[Eternal Phoenix]

XCelfa wrote...

If you think that I'm angry, maybe you need to leave your house more.

Maybe you should take your own advice because it seems you don't know how the real world works. It isn't like the magical and wonderful land of BSN. That's for sure.

XCelfa wrote...
The fact that you don't think this is sexism, that you don't think any of these responding comments to my posts have been sexist at all, is evidence enough that this is going nowhere. You have your "lol silly woman has EMOTIONS" blinders on and you won't take anything I say seriously because you're getting defensive.

You're the one getting defensive (and aggressive) because you're misreading. You don't even know what sexism is. Several posters wanted a male character referenced too. I believe there have been a few female posters here as well who have agreed with the OP for wanting *both* genders referenced and not for flirting.

So men talk to women like they're "one of the lads" in real life do they? It's an observable fact that men treat male friends differently and vice versa. Like one of my earlier posts was getting at: some males might open up more to another male because they think of them as a "brother" whereas it will take them a little while longer to open up to a female character. That's not sexism and it happens in today's society still. Likewise I'm sure there's things that only women discuss with each other and exclude men from but I don't think you'd know about that...

[Felya87]

I remember in DA:O some characters referring to the Warden differently, sometimes even flirty. Like Teagan. For a moment, I thinked he was going to be a LI. And Jarvia, if the Warden is female, wanted to capture she to..."use" her on the street.

I like the fact that gender in DA aren't treated differently, but still, I'd like to see little difference from Male and Female character, or the difference would be just estetic. A male merchant who give a ring or something similar to a cute girl to win her as a costumer, or a woman barman who offres something to drink gratis for the handsome male costumer.
All little things, but effective to immersion and realism.

Oh, and I'm totally with the Qun and women thing. In DA2 The Arishok never see FHawke as a woman. Stan confronts the Warden in a almost infuriating conversation.

In DA3 maybe there could be some "sexism" for man too. Man can't have hight title (autside the templars) and can't make celebrations. If the Church is as important as it seems, I think that thing could be an issue in DA3. (or at least an occasion of confrontation)

little things, but just to recognizise that your character is a men or a woman.

and in the romance option, well...in DA2 Hawke's gender was almost irrilevant...so I'd like character only romancable for Female or only for Male. (no matter the gender)
not for sexism, I don't want to be targeted as one. I'd like to have male character only gay, or female character only lesbian, and one or two as bi. But I want only straigth character too. (possibly not like Sebastian. He still make me want to kill him. As LI and as character)
Just to have the input to restart a new character and a new romance.
another bonus replayability.

the more a character is limitated for class/race/gender, the more the player would like to restart the game creating a new character.

[Henioo]

Quicksilver26 wrote...
ok i have to ask have you ever played as a female human noble? cause right of the bat the mother makes comments about not wanting the girl to be a fight that she should marry the sister in law insists that in antiva proper women do not fight then at redcliffe the mayor dude makes a snide remark about being female at osterger the two grey warden who die make remarks about there not being many women in the grey wonder and they look down right uncomfortable about it Alister also makes some comments about it and Zavarin say more or less the same thing as the sister in law but he also say who cares what is proper or some such nonsense and when you meet howe aging he say something like the little pups all grown up and still playing at being a man i see. and there maybe more that i'm missing but my point is there was plenty of difference between the genders there is no need for any more of it

I didn't say there was no recognition for the gender in DA:O, coz there was some, and mostly it was by males to talk down to females.

I said there was some, I did. People seem to really like to misinterpret my message.

To elaborate, I would like some more of those things, but for both sexes. For example, robes sellers would talk to you differently if you're a woman (maybe offer jewelry or something), and wouldn't be as passionate if you were a man. There could also be small differences like sidequests, for women you gather ingredients or something, for mean you work at an anvil, or whatever.

But my main point was that the dialogue options were lacking in the race department. Like, I could never tell Leliana I believe in the Creators, or the Stone, nor could I tell Sten that I hate mages.

That was all that I meant. I only brought up the genders because the topic required it.

By no means I mean that women and men speak and think totally different. It was all about species.

Blessed Silence wrote...

I
actually wouldn't have minded more different responses based on my race
than gender.  I mean, humans aren't supposed to like elves right?  At
lease city ones I think.  So why isn't that portrayed?  Would have made
sense in that fantasy setting (and given me more reason to show that
person up for whatever reason).

Exactly what I meant.

Modifié par Henioo, 08 octobre 2012 - 11:37 .

[Maria Caliban]

Elton John is dead wrote...

"Which is good because women are the same gender as men and both should be viewed as the same."

This is the most bizarre strawman I've read today.

You know, I've read a lot of 'out there' feminist writings. Everything from menstrual blood being sacred and something we should paint with to elaborate theories on how to support a multi-generational society that's only women. Yet I have never heard anyone suggest that women are the same gender as men.

[FINE HERE]

XCelfa wrote...

Quicksilver26 wrote...

Zkyire wrote...

Quicksilver26 wrote...

FINE HERE wrote...

I agree completely. I hate games that give you the illusion that your character choice matter, especially with gender.
I posted somewhere before about a RPG I played where my female PC had 'seductive' hair, eyes, and voice. Then I went to talk to a quest giver who was known as a playboy by all the NPCs and he said absolutely nothing flirty or demeaning to my PC. He didn't even acknowledge that the PC was female. It took me out of the game completely.

huh  i think the lack of sexiesm is a good thing <_<

A man flirting with a woman is not sexism.

Jesus.

ok maybe i jump to sexism a bit too fast but the female pc is going to be as much a badass as the male why should i have some random guy hit on me cause I play woman if the male pc isn't going to be made in to a sexual  thing then the female shouldn't either i for one don't want sleazy random dudes or any sleazy people coming on to my female because someone in real life thinks that every girl in any game or any world should be hit on because they are a female 

^ this. All this. If I'm getting hit on when I take the subway, or in line at the grocery store, or heaven forbid in my driveway- what makes you think I wanna come home and roll a female character just so some npc can harrass my protagonist?

But I think what we're running into here is a good ol' case of "who is this game made for"? should they forego the opinions of women playing women characters or males playing female characters? I'm just sayin. Maybe the gender option is there for us, not you? What if I don't want to be treated any differently playing a video game than a dude would be? That's kind of my prerogative, isn't it?

First off, Hi, I'm a woman, too. We're not that rare.

Second off, I play games to escape reality, but that doesn't mean I escape because some sleeze hit on me while I was walking down the street. I wanna role play, which is what role playing games are for. If I choose a gender, I'm expecting it to have an impact on the story, MAYBE NOT getting hit on by every other male or female character, but at least something that makes it feel like 'oh, you picked female? Time to change the dialog!"

Third off, it's your prerogative to be offended or not offended by the character hitting on your PC, not whether or not the developer decided to put some creeps in. You're not being treated differently than male gamers, because if they choose to play a female THEY'D GET THE SAME EXACT RESULTS. It's not gonna scan you and say, "You're a woman? Every man will now call you '****!' Enjoy your game!"

[Sable Rhapsody]

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

I might rub my boobs on someone for a cookie.

I just... really like cookies, ok?

I'm not sure I'd do it for a cookie.  Maybe for some tasty chocolate bundt cake.  

[Quicksilver26]

for the record if my grender where to be spoken of in game i would want to be more oh look there is a awesome woman who fight so damn good i want to grow up and be just like her she is so amazing rather than someone be eww its a woman fighting get her away or oh wow it's a woman let's go try to get in her pants

[Henioo]

Quicksilver26 wrote...

for the record if my grender where to be spoken of in game i would want to be more oh look there is a awesome woman who fight so damn good i want to grow up and be just like her she is so amazing rather than someone be eww its a woman fighting get her away or oh wow it's a woman let's go try to get in her pants

Okay, that's weird.

You want women PCs to be glorified because they can fight, and not be bashed because they're women.

That doesn't make much sense. If a female warrior is to be praised for being a woman, it would have to be because women would usually actually not be great warriors.

And that is not the case in the DA universe. Both women and men are equally respected combat-wise.

Some men just deem themselves superior power-wise.

Modifié par Henioo, 08 octobre 2012 - 11:44 .

[Quicksilver26]

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

I might rub my boobs on someone for a cookie.

I just... really like cookies, ok?

*hand over a plate of freshly made cookies* 
  boobies?

[Sylvanpyxie]

Yes, please, I would like NPCs to react to character choices like class, gender, race, major roleplaying choices, etc.

Agreed, it would be great to see greater reactions based upon my gender, class and previous decisions I have made.

In terms of gender:

I loved Gilmore's admiration for my ability, I got some sort of smug satisfaction out of his admission that I was better than most men on the training field. I loved that I could shock my sister-in-law with my generally rowdy behaviour, and I got greater satisfaction when I ground Howe's face into the dirt when he commented on me "playing the man".

Similarly, I loved the City Elf origin in the same way. The guards claiming they would "make it quick" only to be crushed beneath my boot. The Guard Captain saying he'd "put me in my place" and my response, smug and arrogant, destroying him and his fellow guards.

There was a certain satisfaction in it, and I missed it a great deal in Dragon Age 2, especially when it's absence was obvious - Like the Arishok not commenting on a Warrior Woman.

However, gender differentiation is but one thing - Your class needs to be recognized more, nothing was worse than walking around Kirkwall as a Mage, only to be ignored by the majority of Templars as you cast spells right in front of their faces. This should really apply to specializations too, since Blood Magic is a pretty big thing.

In fact, choices were a big one in Dragon Age 2 too, considering you went around cleaning up everyone's messes and clearing out general riff-raff, you'd expect people to address your infamy. Especially since you had your own personal story teller spreading constant rumours about your ability, not to mention the fact you're contained to a single city, Hawke must have been Super Hero status by the start of Act2... Yet it's hardly mentioned until you reach "Champion" status.

More recognition of classes, genders and general infamy would be nice to have - Though i'm not holding my breath, since the different branches of conversation would require additional resources.

Sorry, that turned out to be longer than I expected.... *Runs away*

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 08 octobre 2012 - 11:50 .

[Quicksilver26]

Henioo wrote...

Quicksilver26 wrote...

for the record if my grender where to be spoken of in game i would want to be more oh look there is a awesome woman who fight so damn good i want to grow up and be just like her she is so amazing rather than someone be eww its a woman fighting get her away or oh wow it's a woman let's go try to get in her pants

Okay, that's weird.

You want women PCs to be glorified because they can fight, and not be bashed because they're women.

That doesn't make much sense. If a female warrior is to be praised for being a woman, it would have to be because women would usually actually not be great warriors.

And that is not the case in the DA universe. Both women and men are equally respected combat-wise.

Some men just deem themselves superior power-wise.

was thinking more along the lines of a little girl watching the warrior fight and being inspired by it and yes both women and men are equally respected combat-wise never siad they weren't my point is if it must be spoken of i rather it be something that would make me feel good then something that would make me feel bad well playing it

Modifié par Quicksilver26, 08 octobre 2012 - 11:52 .

[Vicious]

dudebro tears sustain me

While i admire the sentiment, what's a dudebro. I vacationed from the internet and now i see this all over BSN. [mass effect forums mostly]

[Quicksilver26]

Vicious wrote...

dudebro tears sustain me

While i admire the sentiment, what's a dudebro. I vacationed from the internet and now i see this all over BSN. [mass effect forums mostly]

it's a play on words i guss dude and brother = dudebro

[Darth Death]

If there was a significant difference, then some people will cry sexist.

[Sylvianus]

FINE HERE wrote...
First off, Hi, I'm a woman, too. We're not that rare.

Second off, I play games to escape reality, but that doesn't mean I escape because some sleeze hit on me while I was walking down the street. I wanna role play, which is what role playing games are for. If I choose a gender, I'm expecting it to have an impact on the story, MAYBE NOT getting hit on by every other male or female character, but at least something that makes it feel like 'oh, you picked female? Time to change the dialog!"

Third off, it's your prerogative to be offended or not offended by the character hitting on your PC, not whether or not the developer decided to put some creeps in. You're not being treated differently than male gamers, because if they choose to play a female THEY'D GET THE SAME EXACT RESULTS. It's not gonna scan you and say, "You're a woman? Every man will now call you '****!' Enjoy your game!"

Thank you for being sane.

Obviously, that has nothing to do with sexism, Really, I will begin to consider this word as bull**** if it is used everyday for anything irrelevant.

I liked that in DAO there were a few  ( You people didn't seem offended ) differences ( and please don't tell me there weren't, I finished twice this game lately ) which make me feel that my choice to choose a male or female mattered, and affected the world around me a bit. ( like the origins ) I don't see the point to give exactly the same dialogue everywhere, exactly the same lines during all the game, as if nobody noticed what was the gender I chose, who was before his eyes.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 09 octobre 2012 - 12:19 .

[hexaligned]

Vicious wrote...

dudebro tears sustain me

While i admire the sentiment, what's a dudebro. I vacationed from the internet and now i see this all over BSN. [mass effect forums mostly]

A combination of "dude" and "bro" I guess.  First I've seen it, hopefully I will never see it again.

[Dirgegun]

XCelfa wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

XCelfa wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

XCelfa wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

Definitely but it's not going to happen because Bioware is too scared to offend.
"I don't want my female character being treated differently or even referred to as a woman. Women are men too."
Not on my world. Having a character reference the PC's gender isn't sexism of any kind.

"Dragon Age 2 referenced the PC's gender though!"

Not as much as Origins which is why not many people remember. The City Elf origin in Origins was a prime example of just one part in Origins where gender is referenced and even impacts the game. Add more stuff like that if races aren't returning otherwise there's really no difference between genders other than aesthetic differences.

"Which is good because women are the same gender as men and both should be viewed as the same."

Not really. If I want an RPG where your choice of gender doesn't matter then I'd play the countless RPG's on the market with this "feature." In a game boasting that customization choice matters I'd expect to see some reference at least.

Mass Effect 2 boasted that the gameplay experience is different as each gender but it's not. Your gender only influenced who you could romance and now that's gone from Bioware games because everyone is PC-sexual or bisexual (take your pick).

The Qunari don't view women as warriors. Having The Arishocker make a note of this to a female Hawke would have added to the narrative and supported the lore. Origins had this with Sten and I'm putting it down to rushed development time with DA2 for the reason it was excluded. So even if only Qunari recognize gender, I'll be happy.

/rubs temples

The Arishok did initially refuse combat with Hawke if Isabela didn't return with the tome and if Hawke was female. If Fenris was in your party, he spoke their jibberish and eventually the Arishok was convinced to fight.

Yet he never initially mentioned it when a female Hawke was working for him and killing things and people. But again; I think I'll put that down to rushed development.

I think if he wasn't even concerned enough about Hawke to learn his/her name until Act II, gender mattered little to him. In his eyes, Hawke was just a puny human anyway. I'm glad that he took more issue with her humanity than with her sex. Because if he took greater issue with her sex, well... that would just make a female protagonist seem... subhuman, now wouldn't it?

Nope. Qunari culture says women shouldn't have the same positions as men and vice versa. Sten couldn't get his head around a female Warden being, well, female and I swear I remember him doubting if she was female in the first place which was quite funny actually rather than offensive and sexist.

Actually I got rather taken aback that he said something like that. Tell me... when is your masculinity in question when you play video games? I bet it never is. I'd pop off at anyone that dare say I'm any less feminine because of my line of work [which ironically not a typically feminine line of work, might I add].

Don't assume from your male perspective that things shouldn't be offensive from a female perspective. If you haven't lived it, you don't have much context to go off of.

Female. Have had people say I'm not feminine enough for my gender because of the person I am. Still found Sten's line hilarious.

I suoppse I'm just not as touchy about the subject as others are, especially when someone is speaking from a cultural perspective. I can hate someone who is actually a bullheaded sexist. I can't hate someone who views my gender differently because their cultural background differs from mine. 

[Eveangaline]

To be honest, I like not being treated differently for being a girl

[DialupToaster]

Quicksilver26 wrote...

ok maybe i jump to sexism a bit too fast but the female pc is going to be as much a badass as the male why should i have some random guy hit on me cause I play woman if the male pc isn't going to be made in to a sexual  thing then the female shouldn't either i for one don't want sleazy random dudes or any sleazy people coming on to my female because someone in real life thinks that every girl in any game or any world should be hit on because they are a female 

I agree with this statement, why must only the women get objectified in games? My male PC should be a massive chick magnet with them all relentlessly fliting with me throughout the game! 

Modifié par randomchasegurney, 09 octobre 2012 - 01:41 .

[Dhiro]

randomchasegurney wrote...

Quicksilver26 wrote...

ok maybe i jump to sexism a bit too fast but the female pc is going to be as much a badass as the male why should i have some random guy hit on me cause I play woman if the male pc isn't going to be made in to a sexual  thing then the female shouldn't either i for one don't want sleazy random dudes or any sleazy people coming on to my female because someone in real life thinks that every girl in any game or any world should be hit on because they are a female 

I agree with this statement, why must only the women get objectified in games? My male PC should be a massive chick magnet with them all relentlessly fliting with me throughout the game! 

That... isn't the same thing at all.