352 réponses à ce sujet

[cronshaw]

I'm glad that people are looking into this.
But why cap the damage at all, especially when they raised the return % in a buff to begin with.
doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

[BridgeBurner]

corlist wrote...

Based on the test results I have so far, the damage bug has nothing to do with the damage cap.
First of all the damage returned is irrelevant to the amount of DR you have. BA, BA + cover, BA + heavy melee all returned the same damage.
For cannibals, damage returned on the first three difficulties were 320/660/160, which is nowhere near the 2000 damage cap.
According to predicted values, damage on gold should be double of bronze. Maybe they mixed it up and halved the damage instead?

160 damage for gold? Ahhh, that explains so much. I wonder whats causing the bug though.... -_^

[cronshaw]

corlist wrote...
Based on the test results I have so far, the damage bug has nothing to do with the damage cap.
First of all the damage returned is irrelevant to the amount of DR you have. BA, BA + cover, BA + heavy melee all returned the same damage.
For cannibals, damage returned on the first three difficulties were 320/660/160, which is nowhere near the 2000 damage cap.
According to predicted values, damage on gold should be double of bronze. Maybe they mixed it up and halved the damage instead?

I have to say if that is "working as intended" then specing for damage return is useless.
Hopefully this is a bug

[Cyonan]

Ran some tests myself. Blade Armour's thorns effect is bugged even on Bronze.

Assault Trooper Melee Damage Dealt - 263
Damage Reflected with 250% Blade Armour - 300 or 114.07% damage
Damage Reflected with 100% Blade Armour - 120 or 45.63% damage

120 * 2.5 = 300 - The +150% increased Thorns damage evolution does appear to be working normally.

Checked a Gold Assault Trooper real quick and it reflected 150 damage with a 250% Blade Armour, which matches up with 50% less damage in Gold that Corlist's test showed.

[BridgeBurner]

Cyonan wrote...

Ran some tests myself. Blade Armour's thorns effect is bugged even on Bronze.

Assault Trooper Melee Damage Dealt - 263
Damage Reflected with 250% Blade Armour - 300 or 114.07% damage
Damage Reflected with 100% Blade Armour - 120 or 45.63% damage

120 * 2.5 = 300 - The +150% increased Thorns damage evolution does appear to be working normally.

Checked a Gold Assault Trooper real quick and it reflected 150 damage with a 250% Blade Armour, which matches up with 50% less damage in Gold that Corlist's test showed.

Are you using the same kit as he is, or do you think power damage affects the damage returned?

That might explain why you're getting different results....

[Cyonan]

Annomander wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Ran some tests myself. Blade Armour's thorns effect is bugged even on Bronze.

Assault Trooper Melee Damage Dealt - 263
Damage Reflected with 250% Blade Armour - 300 or 114.07% damage
Damage Reflected with 100% Blade Armour - 120 or 45.63% damage

120 * 2.5 = 300 - The +150% increased Thorns damage evolution does appear to be working normally.

Checked a Gold Assault Trooper real quick and it reflected 150 damage with a 250% Blade Armour, which matches up with 50% less damage in Gold that Corlist's test showed.

Are you using the same kit as he is, or do you think power damage affects the damage returned?

That might explain why you're getting different results....

I ran quite a few tests involving both my Batarian Vanguard(17.5% Power Damage) and my Batarian Soldier(7.5% Power Damage). Blade Armour isn't taking from that I found from my tests.

What caused the variation is most likely that I used Assault Troopers and he used Cannibals.

[Mozts]

corlist wrote...

Tankcommander wrote...

Mozts wrote...

I think its a bug related to the cap(2000). I believe when the damage returned reaches the cap (or more) it doesn't do damage at all, instead of dealing 2000 damage.

I think you are on the money based on all my tests. Bronze and Silver melees returned nearly outright kill the troopers, but on gold the stronger melees do little to no damage at all. If the damage was not dealt if the cap was exceeeded, this would explain it.


That being said, it seems as if always a little damage is dealt, as I will occasionally get kills with BA on gold.

Based on the test results I have so far, the damage bug has nothing to do with the damage cap.
First of all the damage returned is irrelevant to the amount of DR you have. BA, BA + cover, BA + heavy melee all returned the same damage.
For cannibals, damage returned on the first three difficulties were 320/660/160, which is nowhere near the 2000 damage cap.
According to predicted values, damage on gold should be double of bronze. Maybe they mixed it up and halved the damage instead?

So, what are the predicted values? 160\\320\\660?

Are these values based on what exactly? Not questioning your source, but the BA mechanics. I'm interested in knowing how the Evo 4 works.

Edited:

Cyonan wrote...

Ran some tests myself. Blade Armour's thorns effect is bugged even on Bronze.

Assault Trooper Melee Damage Dealt - 263
Damage Reflected with 250% Blade Armour - 300 or 114.07% damage
Damage Reflected with 100% Blade Armour - 120 or 45.63% damage

120 * 2.5 = 300 - The +150% increased Thorns damage evolution does appear to be working normally.

Checked a Gold Assault Trooper real quick and it reflected 150 damage with a 250% Blade Armour, which matches up with 50% less damage in Gold that Corlist's test showed.

So the damage returned is just much less than it should be?  Plus it get 50% lower on Gold?

Phantoms attack will also be returned with 114,07% damage? Because they appear to be taking no damage whatsoever sometimes.

Edited 2.0: I think I got it:P

Thanks very much both of  you. Great intel.

Modifié par Mozts, 02 novembre 2012 - 03:04 .

[corlist]

 Blade armour mechanics

1: Damage returned is not related to the character's DR.
2: 250% melee damage return bonus does work.

Hopefully it's just another data bug that's similar to the combo damage bug.

Presuming the damage returned is the melee damage without cover bonus and DR.
Bronze 320 / 500, 36% less than expected
Silver 660 / 760, 14.2% less than expected
Gold 160 / 1000, 84% less than expected
Platinum 133.3333008 / 1200, 89% less than expected.

Actually the damages for gold and platinum are "as expected". Just that the bonus was being divided instead of being multiplied, causing the damage returned to be inversely proportional to the difficulty.

Enemy damage multipliers Source: http://social.biowar...7200/1#12857200
Bronze: 1.25x
Silver: 1.9x
Gold: 2.5x
Platinum: 3.0x

Melee (damage returned) (cannibal/geth trooper)
Bronze : Gold - 500 (320) : 1000 (160)
Bronze : Platinum - 500 (320) : 1200 (133.3333008)

-----

To avoid clutter from overly long posts, I will simply dump all retrieved test data from future tests into word and upload it.

Unformatted test data - Updated for platinum tests

Modifié par corlist, 02 novembre 2012 - 04:46 .

[Gamemako]

Hmm... this is interesting. Anyone care to test Plat to see what the return is there?

[corlist]

Gamemako wrote...

Hmm... this is interesting. Anyone care to test Plat to see what the return is there?

Assuming that Cyonan is not already in a middle of a plat geth test, I could do it?

[Vigilante1024]

Mozts wrote...

I think its a bug related to the cap(2000). I believe when the damage returned reaches the cap (or more) it doesn't do damage at all, instead of dealing 2000 damage.

Or it just rolls over at 2000 - like a maxed odometer - only dealing the remainder above 2k?

[corlist]

For geth troopers:
Bronze: 700 (out of cover) 500 (in cover) 400 (base)
Damage returned was 320 (800 with 250% return)

Platinum: 1680 (out of cover) 1200 (in cover)
Damage returned was 133.3333008 (333.333252 with 250% return)
That's about 41.67% damage of bronze, even less than gold.

[Kboombana]

Tagged for later reference, awaiting test results.

[uboat123]

How disappointing. I tried BA for the first time on Bat Guard and was underwhelmed by the results. I expected more being in the middle of 3 dragoons.

[Immortal Strife]

I tested Blade Armor a few months ago by whittling down a phantom to 1-3 bars of health ,and then proceeded to let her melee the hell out of me with her sword, not once did I kill her or even damage her- I gave up on Blade armor after that.

[Eelectrica]

Dragoons should just about be suiciding on BA. Which would be fun to watch.
Please fix bioware

[corlist]

Mozts wrote...

corlist wrote...


Based on the test results I have so far, the damage bug has nothing to do with the damage cap.
First of all the damage returned is irrelevant to the amount of DR you have. BA, BA + cover, BA + heavy melee all returned the same damage.
For cannibals, damage returned on the first three difficulties were 320/660/160, which is nowhere near the 2000 damage cap.
According to predicted values, damage on gold should be double of bronze. Maybe they mixed it up and halved the damage instead?

So, what are the predicted values? 160/320/660?

Are these values based on what exactly? Not questioning your source, but the BA mechanics. I'm interested in knowing how the Evo 4 works.

The problem is that nobody really knows how much damage they should be taking (We can only know from bioware what's the intended mechanic). The assumptions and observations are detailed here.

*Edit* and evo 4 +150% return does work and changes the return multiplier from 1x to 2.5x

Modifié par corlist, 02 novembre 2012 - 04:39 .

[Knight_Quack]

Whoa, you learn something new about the game everyday. Kudos for Cyonan, Corlist, Annomander & Co.

[corlist]

After poking around with the numbers a bit more, I found out that the damage return bug with gold and platinum seem to be because of a simple math error. The silver damage number is still wonky though.

The damage returned for both gold and platinum w.r.t bronze is inversely proportional instead of directly proportional. In other words, instead of multiplying the bonus, it was divided.

Details

Modifié par corlist, 02 novembre 2012 - 04:59 .

[Gamemako]

What's with the silver numbers?

//EDIT: Hah, ninja'd.

Modifié par Gamemako, 02 novembre 2012 - 04:52 .

[BridgeBurner]

corlist wrote...

After poking around with the numbers a bit more, I found out that the damage return bug with gold and platinum seem to be because of a simple math error. The silver damage number is still wonky though.

The damage returned for both gold and platinum w.r.t bronze is inversely proportional instead of directly proportional. In other words, instead of multiplying the bonus, it was divided.

Details.

Seriously? A simple maths error? I am not confuse. I am astound.

[corlist]

Gamemako wrote...

What's with the silver numbers?

//EDIT: Hah, ninja'd.

Silver is returning 2.0625x bronze damage when it should be 1.52x.

Melee damage(return)
500 (320), 760 (660), 1000 (160), 1200 (133.3333008)

[Gamemako]

corlist wrote...

Silver is returning 2.0625x bronze damage when it should be 1.52x.

Melee damage(return)
500 (320), 760 (660), 1000 (160), 1200 (133.3333008)

I can see that, I'm just wondering how the hell it got there. Based on the bug, we'd expect it to deal ~210.5, though. Why is it dealing 3.135000000000 times that...?

[corlist]

Gamemako wrote...

corlist wrote...

Silver is returning 2.0625x bronze damage when it should be 1.52x.

Melee damage(return)
500 (320), 760 (660), 1000 (160), 1200 (133.3333008)

I can see that, I'm just wondering how the hell it got there. Based on the bug, we'd expect it to deal ~210.5, though. Why is it dealing 3.135000000000 times that...?

I think we know that it's a waste of time trying to figure out magic multiplier(s) for that. Time for Bioware intervention.
In the meantime, enjoy your extra powerful blade armour on silver.

[BridgeBurner]

corlist wrote...

I think we know that it's a waste of time trying to figure out magic multiplier(s) for that. Time for Bioware intervention.
In the meantime, enjoy your extra powerful blade armour on silver.

Hopefully we can at least get them to recognise there is a problem, various people including myself have PM'd various overlords to no avail.