83 réponses à ce sujet

[Zjarcal]

Aedolon wrote...

Flambrose wrote...

Writing all of this up, I decided perhaps I haven't been playing to FQE's strengths enough. I took that cruddy CSMGV off of her and got rid of the Acolyte, and I did pretty well with Talon X. Phantoms are definitely her worst nightmare.. I didn't notice I was hosting before going into a Cerberus game, and dat DR they get is just yr08932yrh0983q2yrh089. This is why I value GE with GPS so much. I make an effort to hunt every single Phantom on the map with him.

If you like GPS, you might want to try it on FQE. It's not a bad combo at all.

Works great on her indeed. Well, on host anyway...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Talon is a good weapon on her too, though the Acolyte is great if paired with a high DPS gun as well. 

Talon is imo the best weapon for her if taking only one gun.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 18 janvier 2013 - 08:45 .

[LemurFromTheId]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Talon is a good weapon on her too, though the Acolyte is great if paired with a high DPS gun as well.

Good to hear you're coming to appreciate her strengths more. MQE is just about the best engineer (great debuff, great grenades, great techsplosions) so its hard to shine next to him.

Acolyte.. the crutch weapon for scrubs.

[Zero132132]

HolyAvenger wrote...

The reason people "stuff" high DPS weapons on her is that her powers are suited to high DPS weapons, and not for power spam. The debuff from CB is better and better the more damage your weapons do.

Haha...CC is markedly less valuable than single target DPS at the highest difficulty levels.

In Platinum, yes. Gold, no. In Platinum, it's basically just boss spam. There aren't really crowds to control. I think the difference is, a lot of people think "CC" means not doing damage to enemies. CC, to me, means doing decent AoE damage to a number of enemies (as opposed to high single-target damage). I mean, there's AoE debuffs as well and stagger and stuff, but the basic difference is that you deal with groups rather than single bosses. Most bosses on the field at any time on Gold is 3. You still have hefty armored targets on plenty of waves, but with most enemy types, having the ability to deal good AoE damage is valuable against mooks, and lacking against bosses.

Builds that I have that are spec'd for killing groups of small enemies do great on Gold. They kinda suck on Platinum, but people massively underestimate CC on Gold. I think so, at least. Area reave + CGs will kill most non-bosses in a spawn.

[T41rdEye]

Beelzebubs wrote...

FQE is a great class to play, it was a good class even before cryo/incinerate was "fixed". It really doesn't need buffs.

[HolyAvenger]

Aedolon wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Talon is a good weapon on her too, though the Acolyte is great if paired with a high DPS gun as well.

Good to hear you're coming to appreciate her strengths more. MQE is just about the best engineer (great debuff, great grenades, great techsplosions) so its hard to shine next to him.

Acolyte.. the crutch weapon for scrubs.

 

Says the man advocating the use of a Claymoar on her<_

[HolyAvenger]

Zero132132 wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

The reason people "stuff" high DPS weapons on her is that her powers are suited to high DPS weapons, and not for power spam. The debuff from CB is better and better the more damage your weapons do.

Haha...CC is markedly less valuable than single target DPS at the highest difficulty levels.

In Platinum, yes. Gold, no. In Platinum, it's basically just boss spam. There aren't really crowds to control. I think the difference is, a lot of people think "CC" means not doing damage to enemies. CC, to me, means doing decent AoE damage to a number of enemies (as opposed to high single-target damage). I mean, there's AoE debuffs as well and stagger and stuff, but the basic difference is that you deal with groups rather than single bosses. Most bosses on the field at any time on Gold is 3. You still have hefty armored targets on plenty of waves, but with most enemy types, having the ability to deal good AoE damage is valuable against mooks, and lacking against bosses.

Builds that I have that are spec'd for killing groups of small enemies do great on Gold. They kinda suck on Platinum, but people massively underestimate CC on Gold. I think so, at least. Area reave + CGs will kill most non-bosses in a spawn.

 


Then you're using a different definition of CC than most  people. Crowd control and AoE nuking/damage (Reave and CG) are not the same thing. When people say CC they mean exactly that...low damage powers that stop enemies from moving around like Stasis, Singularity and chain Overload.

[Zero132132]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Then you're using a different definition of CC than most  people. Crowd control and AoE nuking/damage (Reave and CG) are not the same thing. When people say CC they mean exactly that...low damage powers that stop enemies from moving around like Stasis, Singularity and chain Overload.

I still think that stuff's useful on Gold too. I only do 4 ranks in her turret, and it's purely for the shock that stuns nearby mooks. Doesn't kill them, just buys you a second to line up a few shots.

Truthfully, though, I agree. Killing enemies is better than delaying them. The only value in the kind of CC you're talking about is making enemies easier to kill. Cryo blast is good for the debuff. Incinerate is decent damage against armored targets. With her, I usually use Disruptor ammo so that I can take down shields easier and also do TBs for AoE stagger (we all know that ammo primed combo detonations are pretty weak as far as damage goes), so that's still a kind of crowd control.

I guess my question is, what actually counts as crowd control in this game? Stasis might be the only power in the game that's purely for stopping enemies (Pull actually has a damage evolution that I take, so I use it to kill, and singularity and chain overload both do damage on their own). Everything else deals damage or debuffs as well, doesn't it?

Modifié par Zero132132, 18 janvier 2013 - 09:16 .

[Flambrose]

Crowd control doesn't necessarily include doing good damage to a group, but killing groups effectively does the same thing. CG + Reave nuking is a form of crowd control because it thins crowds. Same with Arc Grenade + Incinerate. Overload does less damage, but it still strips shields like a champ with neural shock, easily as valuable if not moreso than the debuff provided by CB against smaller enemies.

Every use of Chain OL on my GE means one enemy is dead and another is stunned. Practically instantly too. Charge GPS -> OL -> immediately release charge -> dead Phantom/Marauder/etc.

As for GPS on FQE, I'd only use it if I was playing Cerberus, and probably only if I were hosting. Talon is just too good to pass up for its shield stripping and headshot damage.

Modifié par Flambrose, 18 janvier 2013 - 09:38 .

[LemurFromTheId]

Zero132132 wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Then you're using a different definition of CC than most  people. Crowd control and AoE nuking/damage (Reave and CG) are not the same thing. When people say CC they mean exactly that...low damage powers that stop enemies from moving around like Stasis, Singularity and chain Overload.

I still think that stuff's useful on Gold too. I only do 4 ranks in her turret, and it's purely for the shock that stuns nearby mooks. Doesn't kill them, just buys you a second to line up a few shots.

Yeah, rank 4 turret is what I use too, ranks 5 & 6 are a waste of points at the moment, IMHO.

Zero132132 wrote...

Truthfully, though, I agree. Killing enemies is better than delaying them. The only value in the kind of CC you're talking about is making enemies easier to kill. Cryo blast is good for the debuff. Incinerate is decent damage against armored targets. With her, I usually use Disruptor ammo so that I can take down shields easier and also do TBs for AoE stagger (we all know that ammo primed combo detonations are pretty weak as far as damage goes), so that's still a kind of crowd control.

I think that's the key that really makes CC worthwhile. That's why I like stasis: anything that can be put into stasis can be killed with one headshot, and making that headshot becomes somewhat easier when the target stops moving...

That said, I do like drones and decoys and find them far from useless, but I wouldn't choose them if I were to create the ultimate kit for Platinum.

Zero132132 wrote...

I guess my question is, what actually counts as crowd control in this game? Stasis might be the only power in the game that's purely for stopping enemies (Pull actually has a damage evolution that I take, so I use it to kill, and singularity and chain overload both do damage on their own). Everything else deals damage or debuffs as well, doesn't it?

I'd say anything that hinders the enemies' ability to shoot at you is CC. Pure damage is not generally considered CC, even if it ouright kills them, thus preventing them from shooting you.