21 réponses à ce sujet

[Argetfalcon]

 I just hope Bioware learned from their mistake

[Sable Rhapsody]

If a game has a slow middle section, some people get bored, but plenty plow through it. If the beginning's a little subpar, not everyone continues playing. But if the ending is unsatisfactory, there's a s***storm of epic proportions. That's the lesson I pulled out of ME3.

That being said, DA3 doesn't have to resolve anything it doesn't want to. It's not the last game of a trilogy. It's not the end to anyone's story the way ME3 was.

[AlanC9]

What, precisely, is is that they're supposed to have learned?

Modifié par AlanC9, 09 octobre 2012 - 05:59 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

AlanC9 wrote...

What, precisely, is is that they're supposed to have learned?

People get more upset over an unfulfilling ending than they would over a shoddy beginning or middle.

It's not just limited to games.  Endings are important in all sorts of storytelling.  

[AlanC9]

OK, but what makes an ending "unfulfilling"?

[Iakus]

Warning! Warning! Question is loaded! Back away from the question and find a responsible adult!

[scootermcgaffin]

AlanC9 wrote...

OK, but what makes an ending "unfulfilling"?

"I don't like it."

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

Warning! Warning! Question is loaded! Back away from the question and find a responsible adult!

Heh. Look, I'm just pointing out that the topic is content-free so far. "Don't make an ending that people don't like" is all I'm getting, and that isn't much of a plan of action.

[Adanu]

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Warning! Warning! Question is loaded! Back away from the question and find a responsible adult!

Heh. Look, I'm just pointing out that the topic is content-free so far. "Don't make an ending that people don't like" is all I'm getting, and that isn't much of a plan of action.

Trust me when I say you don't want to start this debate here. The ME3 forums had a firestorm for MONTHS over their ending and nothing ever got resolved.

[Sable Rhapsody]

AlanC9 wrote...

OK, but what makes an ending "unfulfilling"?

OK, I'll try to tackle this in a meaningful fashion without setting everyone off.

A lot of the complaints around the ME3 endings revolved around two things--the lack of closure for Shepard's teammates, friends, and to a certain extent the galaxy at large; and the sudden change in plot direction during the last twenty minutes or so.  The EC and Leviathan to a large extent fixed the lack of closure, and even added in plot context for the Catalyst.  But retroactively adding stuff in isn't quite the same as having it in the first place.

Closure and plot consistency are things that Dragon Age 3 can attempt to reasonably tackle.  Other complaints around the ME3 endings stemmed from the tone of the endings or the plot itself.  Those IMO are impossible to resolve in a way that makes everyone happy--the writers write what they want, pretty much.  What they CAN do is provide an ending that comes with plenty of foreshadowing across the game, and gives us closure for the consequences of our actions, on our party members and on the world of Thedas itself.  That would probably be good enough for most gamers.

This is, of course, assuming DA3 isn't another cliffhanger lead-in to the next game.  In that case, dangling plot threads and open-endedness are to be expected.  It's just that for the conclusion of a trilogy, the original version of the ME3 ending didn't always feel "conclusive."

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 09 octobre 2012 - 07:02 .

[Maria Caliban]

AlanC9 wrote...

OK, but what makes an ending "unfulfilling"?

And this is where the thread just plunged into a giant abyss of troll and ****posting.

[Dagr88]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
This is, of course, assuming DA3 isn't another cliffhanger lead-in to the next game.  In that case, dangling plot threads and open-endedness are to be expected.

It was implied several times that "if we want to destroy our world, we can". From this we can assume that it's possible that in DA3 there will some world/lore changing phenomenon. If that really happens I hope that it will be "activated" not at the end of the game (3 years long cliffhanger) but around 80% completion of the game. And hopefully it won't be some BOOM, but slow, yet noticeable process.

"Dangling plot threads" idea is great, specially if we can't solve ALL the problems that antagonists created during DA3.

Example: antagonist - organization with 10 evil masters
In DA3 is implied that we know the number; we must kill 6 of them (main plot); we can kill 1-2 more if we "sacrifice" something; 2-3 are only seen/mentioned and left for post ending DLC as main/secondary villains. Maybe one of our previous companions are hunting them, so there is a possibility for big/sensible cameo.

P.S. I do enjoy Awakening size DLCs.

Modifié par Dagr88, 09 octobre 2012 - 09:03 .

[Gileadan]

"Then the inquisitor disappeared, possibly forever! Or at least until post-campaign DLC was released."

[Dirgegun]

Mass Effect and Dragon Age have completely different writing teams, just sayin'...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

In my opinion, Bioware has made no mistake. Keep up the good work Bioware.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Dirgegun wrote...

Mass Effect and Dragon Age have completely different writing teams, just sayin'...

It's not as though they live in vacuum sealed bubbles or something.  They probably talk.  DA2 used and tweaked the dialogue wheel concept from Mass Effect.

[silentspec111]

This is the part where i honestly think DAO did right and ME3 did wrong. At the end of DAO as everyone here knows the warden has an option of a small chat with every companion. It helped give him/her and through the Warden us the small satisfaction of knowing where our companions were going or what they would be doing. It also gave the PC choices of what he would want to do. In short it gave closure. I can always think my Human Nobel Warden stayed back at Ferelden (with Leliana for some time b4 she was called to do a favor for the chantry) and helped Alaister and the Wardens to rebuild. Same goes for other origins.


I am not saying that ME3 should have done exactly the same thing. But an option of knowing what happened to the Squad mates or Shep(if he/she is alive) would have been nice. Just knowing what they will do in the immediate future would have given us a closure. The rest we could imagine like we did with our Wardens.

The main draw of Bioware games are their stories, the Companions/Squadmates and the PC's interaction with them. The fact that we played and had an option to influencing and being a part of so much of their lives. Then suddenly the game ends and all those interaction all the convos dont come to fruition. We never find out what happened to them how Shep influenced them. The ending thus felt abrupt and sudden. This is the fact that riled a lot of people.

I personally loved ME3 and am ok with the endings as they are now. But I can also see why so many have a problem with it. Furthermore I am hopeful and optimistic that the endings od DA3 will be in the same veins of DAO and even if its not the case I have faith in Mr.Gaider and the writing team to still give us an excellent ending.

Modifié par silentspec111, 09 octobre 2012 - 08:03 .

[Dirgegun]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Dirgegun wrote...

Mass Effect and Dragon Age have completely different writing teams, just sayin'...

It's not as though they live in vacuum sealed bubbles or something.  They probably talk.  DA2 used and tweaked the dialogue wheel concept from Mass Effect.

I didn't say they do, but Mass Effect and Dragon Age are still two completely different games with two completely different writing teams. I doubt we have to worry about the Dragon Age team borrowing how the Mass Effect ending was done.  

[Sable Rhapsody]

Dirgegun wrote...
I doubt we have to worry about the Dragon Age team borrowing how the Mass Effect ending was done.  

I don't think we do.  I just wanted to address why a lot of fans were so upset about ME3.  And I hope DA3 will be suitably awesome.

[Little Princess Peach]

AlanC9 wrote...

OK, but what makes an ending "unfulfilling"?

for me it would be having non of the plot holes answerd.

[KiwiQuiche]

Let's all step away from the ending thread, alright?

[Sable Rhapsody]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Let's all step away from the ending thread, alright?

They're like hot potatoes.  But hey, it's still civil at the end of page 1.  That's a start