82 réponses à ce sujet

[Malaia]

 I know that arch demons are dragons, but are all dragons demons? 

 Appreciate anyone that can answer as I know the sacred ashes dragon doesn't have to die. 

[Lotion Soronarr]

who knows?



We really know little of the archdemons. Apparently they are not regular dragons, but it's merely a form. Frankly, since all Archdemons so far appeared as dragons, I really belive that that's what they actually look like.

Mayhaps they are just very special dragons. Dragon abominations?

Your guess is as good as mine.

[Hoylander]

I don't think it's a demon. The High Dragon up there is an optional fight, you don't need to kill if for the main story. But it's a fun fight and drops some nice items.

[Ulrik the Slayer]

Its just a dragon, doing what dragons do: protecting its hoard, which happens to be near the temple you have to go to.



It can't help that the stupid Cult decided to worship it.

[Malaia]

LOL, well it's not important to gameplay, but it is to my fanfiction story. My character would feel bad for the slaughter of an animal that is no danger to anyone...but she'd kick the hell outta a demon (well, she'd send Alistair to do it, while hiding behind him).

[Sabriana]

If the PC doesn't kill it, it destroys Andraste's ashes, and does some general mayhem up there. I do think it's evil, but not in the "I'll destroy everything in my path", but evil in "what and how can I manipulate to get the best possible solution for me." I think that's why it allows the cultists around. After all, they make good servants.



So do I think it's evil. Oh yes, but very, very smart.

[Malaia]

AHA great answer Sabriana...that's what I needed to know!

[Ulrik the Slayer]

Sabriana wrote...

If the PC doesn't kill it, it destroys Andraste's ashes, and does some general mayhem up there. I do think it's evil, but not in the "I'll destroy everything in my path", but evil in "what and how can I manipulate to get the best possible solution for me." I think that's why it allows the cultists around. After all, they make good servants.

So do I think it's evil. Oh yes, but very, very smart.

Actually, the High Dragon doesn't destroy the temple and the ashes - the battles it fights against the  various pilgrimages and expeditions of people wanting to see the urn is what ultimately destroys the temple in the end. If the people would've left his/her home alone, it wouldn't have destroyed the temple.

Modifié par Ulrik the Slayer, 29 décembre 2009 - 12:05 .

[Malaia]

So if you kill brother geneviti or dont' bring him..is it okay then? I've never let it live in 11 playthroughs =/

[Taritu]

Malaia wrote...

So if you kill brother geneviti or dont' bring him..is it okay then? I've never let it live in 11 playthroughs =/

I let it live once, and I didn't take Genitivi.  The ashes disappeared, as I recall, nothing about battles with the dragon or temples being destroyed.

[AntiChri5]

It is a Dragon. You are a Hero. Whenever a Dragon and a Hero meets one of two things happen:



1: The Hero slays the Dragon. This is almost a law in fantasy. Although, if the Hero sucks, sometimes the Dragon Slays the Hero.



2: The Hero Rides the Dragon. Sometimes the Hero and the Dragon reach an understanding and become ally's. This is fun.



Frankly though you are not a hero untill you kill a Dragon. Till then your just some schmuck with a Sword/Staff/Bow/Dagger (take your pick)

[Malaia]

Thanks for the replies...I guess that's another unclear moment in the game lol. My poor character is confused. She's sick of killing!

[Layn]

Malaia wrote...

 I know that arch demons are dragons, but are all dragons demons? 

 Appreciate anyone that can answer as I know the sacred ashes dragon doesn't have to die. 

all archdemons are old gods, all old gods are (afaik) uber dragons or something. BUT! not all dragons are old gods and not all old gods are archdemons (although the darkspawn are trying their best at turning all archdemons into old gods).
What i mean, Dragons aren't necessarily evil and dragon!Andraste didn't do anything evil. She just lived there as the deity of the Haven people.

i killed her, even though i had no particular reason to, i just wanted to kill a dragon.
oh also i got awesome armor from her scales

[BroBear Berbil]

Malaia wrote...

LOL, well it's not important to gameplay, but it is to my fanfiction story. My character would feel bad for the slaughter of an animal that is no danger to anyone...but she'd kick the hell outta a demon (well, she'd send Alistair to do it, while hiding behind him).

Dragons and demons are not related. Demons are spirits that reside in the fade that are generally associated with negative emotions. I'm not sure why they chose the name Archdemon to describe the tainted old gods.

I bolded that part of your post because the codex does talk about presumably this very dragon and its destructive history.

The current Age was not meant to be the Dragon Age. Throughout the
last months of the Blessed Age, the Chantry was preparing to declare
the Sun Age, named for the symbol of the Orlesian Empire, which at that
time sprawled over much of the south of Thedas and controlled both
Ferelden and what is now Nevarra. It was to be a celebration of
Orlesian imperial glory.

But as the rebellion in Ferelden reached a head and the
Battle of River Dane was about to begin, a peculiar event occurred: a
rampage, the rising of a dreaded high dragon. Dragons had been thought
practically extinct since the days of the Nevarran dragon hunts, and
they say that to see this great beast rise form the Frostbacks was both
majestic and terrifying. As the rampage began and the high dragon
decimated the countryside in its search for food, the elderly Divine
Faustine II abruptly declared the Dragon Age.

Some say the Divine was declaring support for Orlais in the
battle against Ferelden, since the dragon is an element of the Dufayel
family heraldry of King Meghren, the so-called Usurper King of
Ferelden. Be that as it may, the high dragon's rampage turned towards
the Orlesian side of the Frostback Mountains, killing hundreds and
sending thousands more fleeing to the northern coast. The Fereldan
rebels won the Battle of River Dane, ultimately securing their
independence.

Many thus think that the Dragon Age will come to represent a time of
violent and dramatic change for all of Thedas. It remains to be seen.

Codex - Thedas Calendar (Culture and History)

[Bratinov]

I think it's just a trained beast with limited intelligence... havent read much of the codex yet.

[Damar Stiehl]

She's not a demon (and yes, it's a she - her mates are drakes that you fight in the caverns). She is, however, a rather pissed-off and intelligent beast, who successfully subverted the "cult of Andraste" to her will.

It's too bad you don't get an option to talk to her - it would be interesting if she offered you to throw your lot in with the Reavers.

There is also a codex entry somewhere mentioning that there were so many dragon cults around at one point that there is no way that dragons are just mindless animals, because then there would be no point in worshipping them.

Modifié par Damar Stiehl, 29 décembre 2009 - 03:16 .

[Sabriana]

True enough, it depends on your point of view. The ruin wasn't the dragon's home, it was dedicated to Andraste. The dragon came and some of Kolgrin's ancestors decided to worship the dragon instead. It remains open to debate who had the greater right to claim it 'home'.

In my view, the dragon is evil, because it seems a drop of its blood will destroy Andraste's ashes. It had a good life up there with all the cultist catering to its every whim. I guess I'd be po'd to if someone came along and ruined my great set-up.

It's just the overall feeling I got when my PC encountered it, it was very creepy. I also remember some of the things the guardian said about the cultist choosing the dragon as an object of worship.that gave me pause. I wish I could remember the words, but there you have it. Maybe I should start another game? It's as good an excuse as any.

I seem to recall hearing/reading in one of my epilogues that the ashes were fouled and the temple destroyed by the dragon. But don't press me for proof. I've got none.

[Suron]

The Old Gods were Dragons worshiped by Tevinter.



There are SEVEN of them..SEVEN..



There are still other Dragons..even High Dragons..but they are NOT Old Gods.



Only Old Gods are sought out by the Darkspawn to corrupt into Archdemons.



An Archdemon is an Old God corrupted by the Taint.



The Old Gods that have yet to be found are NOT Archdemons..as they're NOT corrupted yet.



So is the High Dragon at the Urn Temple evil? who knows...good/evil probably has no meaning for a Dragon as it's just an animal..



However the High Dragon is NOT an Old God NOR a/an (Arch)Demon

[paneerakbari]

Historically, the Tevinter Imperium worshiped dragons as gods. Doubtless many actual demons would love to get their hands on that kind of physical presence.



It was Tevinter mages that became the first darkspawn, or so the Chantry teaches. It stands to reason that the Tevinter mages would have revered dragons as deities, and logic would suggest that the Archdemons' form over the ages is a direct result of this worship.



What is troubling to me is that the first darkspawn were able to so easily amass a Horde. We are told in-game multiple times that the Archdemon is an old god that the darkspawn have uncovered and now it leads them. We are also told that the blood of thousands of slaves was used to fuel the Tevinter attempts to enter the Golden City, and that once the mages reached the Golden City they were cast back to the world from the now-corrupted Black City.



I suspect that this is partially true, but that a couple of very important facts have been distorted. Tevinter mages stormed the Golden City through blood magic: the souls of the slain slaves were used as a bridge, in the Fade, to reach the Golden City. Once there, the mages seized control of the Golden City, but it reflected their corruption and became the Black City.



The darkspawn emerge in the world because of this, and their original numbers consist of the slaves that were sacrificed. The leaders of the darkspawn Hordes consist of the mages that started the mess originally. Here's the important part, though: the Archdemons are not dragons, nor are they natives of the Fade come into the world, they are Tevinter archmagi attempting to retake the world. They gather their power and, using the blood spilled in combat, eventually assume a body fitting their pride: a dragon.



Returning to the topic, Dragon Andraste is probably not inherently evil. Truly, I doubt anything in the DA world could be absolutely categorized as evil. She is a powerful creature, though, and that power is quite likely to be exploited for personal gain.

[Malaia]

Ok..so sacred urn dragon bad? Kill it, lest it wreak havoc upon the earth?

Or

Sacred urn dragon neutral unless you ****** it off?

or

Sacred Urn dragon just nothing special, kill it for loot, but it won't have any lasting effects if it lives?



---- I could quite possibly be more confused now than when I started this thread oO.

On the other hand my character is a ditz mage with extraordinary healing powers and an astonishing streak of spinelessness.



I guess if my story can be a sequence of contradictions...so can Bioware's.

[Asante81]

Well, the codex entry about dragons tells you that high dragons are all female and that their life circles involve a massive slaughter/hunt of food every 100 years to prepare the hatching of a new batch of offspring. If you define that hunt as "evil" because the dragons kills countless numbers of cattle and, I guess, humans too, then don't worry. If your character would define that as something natural like "eating and being eaten", then most likely he/she would have a problem with killing a "soon-to-be-mommy-dragon"...

[Wompoo]

It is Lassie with an attitude problem... kill it, it make good armor.

[Marso40]

Depends on your definition of 'evil'. Blow Kolgrim's horn, or ring the gong and see if the Dragon is willing to live and let live.

Hint: Apply some Greater Warmth Balm before you do it.

Actually, the best reason to whack the dragon is its hoard. Wars are expensive, and need to be funded. In order to properly tax that dragon you have to kill it. Maybe there's an object lesson in there somewhere.

Modifié par Marso40, 29 décembre 2009 - 04:14 .

[Dark83]

Seriously though, it's going to slaughter everything nearby every hundred years or so, spawning more dragons that'll eventually do the same thing. If you consider that a part of the natural cycle and thus ok, then note that defending your territory and people is also a part of the natural cycle, and thus it is ok to kill it. If you consider the dragon an unacceptable threat, then it's ok to kill it too.

Just kill it.

[Malaia]

Consider it slashed, bashed and flambee'd - but don't let Alistair cook it =(. *shudders at gray pasty things floating in milky water*