303 réponses à ce sujet

[Rudest]

Descy_ wrote...

So now that the conversation went to Twilight....

How about that Hitler?

He is building a base, on the moon!

<.<

I am out of debaty juices. Killing time by being needlessly confrontational for the win!

[ParatrooperSean]

Rebel_Raven wrote...

If you were a recruiter, and a, what 400lbs - 1 ton, mighty female Krogan walked up, slammed a claymore onto your desk, leaned in -real- close, looked you dead in the eyes, and wanted to sign up, would -you- say no?

I don't think they'd take "no" for an answer. Not even from another Krogan.

I was a recruiter. I would have said, "I'm sorry but you don't meet the hight and weight requirements as outlined in USAREC Reg 601-210" 

[Chi_Mangetsu]

Rudest wrote...

The Good: Women who genuinely love the culture. Love gaming. Who have sensible believable qualms. Wanting a few extra female avatars and representations in a multiplayer game? That is reasonable. Wanting to impact creativity in a positive light. Women who act in defense and out of love for gaming and their fellow gamer. Who embrace story, art, and just... Gaming. Simple as that!

The Bad: Women looking for a fight that isn't there, trying to superimpose their way as the right way, play queen bee, and control and dominate until the climate is completely their own, trying to fill disparities that don't exist, impact creative control in a negative biased light, seek attention. Run around screaming "IM A GIRL GAMER LOOK AT ME!" ....Gaming is not about personal control, or dominating your peers. It's about art. Creativity. And fun. Gaming is play.

I'm male and I think you're way off base and don't think it's asking too much to see more playable females representing in gaming. Where exactly do I fit into your paradigm? Not trying to start an argument, but it's really a strange position being stated that is sadly too common. And notfornothin, but the "My best friend is a girl gamer!" sounds a lot like, "My best friend is [insert race here]!"

ParatrooperSean wrote...

Just opened the thread for the first time. Found this one page 1.

It seriously should have ended it, but it didn't.

Thanks for the useless post. Really, you may as well have posted tl;dr.

Rudest wrote...

Change cannot be positive when it is afflicted on others!

Tell that to Anthony and Truman and Kennedy and King. I think they might have a difference of opinion.

[Chi_Mangetsu]

ParatrooperSean wrote...

Frankly I'm indifferent to the gender of the class I'm playing. I actually think it would be cool to have a male shadow striking ninja to choose from, another Kai Leng if you will. But I'm just as content to have a female version.

The Slayer IS Kai Leng. '''

[Ypiret]

Rebel_Raven wrote...

What's the unreasonable part?
What's misguided? o.O
That bit confuses me.

Yeah, I have a bit of hypocracy in me. I don't deny it. I'm not perfect.
I think that's universal among the human race, though.

Westerns do seem rather uptight on the subject... Wait, how the heck do you know i'm a westerner? 

The unreasonable part is that you're getting upset over not having 50/50 gender representation in a videogames targeted at men. It's like a man complaining about there being more female than male Babie dolls.

Misguided because... I don't know? I guess because you take all of this personaly or as an attack on your gender. Like the only reason you aren't seeing what you want is because everyone else believe women to be incompetant and whatnot. I guess I was just thinking of feminism in general when I wrote that part; if any of that stuff even falls in the category of misguided.

Also about the hypocracy thing, I just find it really hard to imagine you giving a crap if the problem was the other way around in this situation and males were the ones lacking whatever it is that you want. Which is the main problem I have with feminism; both genders are victims of gender roles but feminism only acknoledges one. I seriously can't understand why people just can't be egalitarian instead of categorizing who to give a damn about.

Also, you told me you're a westerner. We had a conversation when you were upset because you thought all the Earth female characters would suck and I told you to quit being Miss Negative Nancy

Modifié par Ypiret, 12 octobre 2012 - 04:38 .

[ParatrooperSean]

Chi_Mangetsu wrote...

Thanks for the useless post. Really, you may as well have posted tl;dr.

You finding it useless is the highest possible compliment that can be paid. So no, thank you.

[Rebel_Raven]

Descy_ wrote...

So now that the conversation went to Twilight....

How about that Hitler?

NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN!! *Beats on desk* lol

Broganisity wrote...

Rebel_Raven wrote...

If you were a recruiter, and a, what 400lbs - 1 ton, mighty female Krogan walked up, slammed a claymore onto your desk, leaned in -real- close, looked you dead in the eyes, and wanted to sign up, would -you- say no?

I don't think they'd take "no" for an answer. Not even from another Krogan.

...

I think if you wanna use the fictional world defense with mass effect, I think you're not gunna win that one.
Maybe if it were Modern Warfare, or Call of Duty, but Mass Effect? A virtual flagship for being one of the toughest women in the galaxy, and it not feeling out of place?

/agree, mostly

The Female Krogan do fight, devise tactics, and lead. I won't use the done-to-death Eve example because, well- it was done to death...Just like with what Mordin did with her (without the Maelon's data.)! We've known this since Mass Effect Two. Female Clan Leaders and all that.

We then learn (again from Wrex) that the infertile female krogan came up with the plan of running out into the wastes to lure the Reapers away from the fertile females..

While personally I think they would work in multiplayer (and actually provide a legitimate female tank class.), at the same time though I sincerely doubt the now fertile (or are they, Salarian-Lovers?) Female Krogan are going to line up to join a ragtag group of mercenaries, wannabe heroes and N7 Rejects. If anything they'd mix and mingle with the Krogan forces on Tuchanka to kick the Reapers off...and maybe pop a few litters out in the process. (I have a feeling saying that is going to get me a hailstorm of hate, but...life's funny that way. )

But really: the lack of variety amongst the female classes is off-putting. They are all largely in support/distant roles, with the vague exceptions of the Fury and Shadow, neither of them truly filling a 'CQC/Tank' role. The females that do are carbon copies (or vice versa, take your pick.) of their male equivalents, so its not exactly varied.

But now I feel like I"m just repeating my other post. So...yeah. In short: I feel the question of female characters in regard to Mass Effect Multiplayer is not the amount, but the variety.

Nah, no hate from me. But all the krogan forces are kinda rag tag mercenaries and stuff! lol 
I think they'd spread out, and fight on all fronts to help ensure victory, personally, but they would certainly have the majority around their homeworld.

Also, female krogans out number male krogans, and we see how common male krogans are in multiplayer. I think they, too are genophage afflicted.

The part after "But really" really drives the point home!

It's not just that, however! We missed out on a Female Soldier opportunity in a matched set of Male/Female Quarian Marksmen.
A more modernly made female weapon's platform that's durable is also long missing from the variety.

[Rudest]

Chi_Mangetsu wrote...

Rudest wrote...

The Good: Women who genuinely love the culture. Love gaming. Who have sensible believable qualms. Wanting a few extra female avatars and representations in a multiplayer game? That is reasonable. Wanting to impact creativity in a positive light. Women who act in defense and out of love for gaming and their fellow gamer. Who embrace story, art, and just... Gaming. Simple as that!

The Bad: Women looking for a fight that isn't there, trying to superimpose their way as the right way, play queen bee, and control and dominate until the climate is completely their own, trying to fill disparities that don't exist, impact creative control in a negative biased light, seek attention. Run around screaming "IM A GIRL GAMER LOOK AT ME!" ....Gaming is not about personal control, or dominating your peers. It's about art. Creativity. And fun. Gaming is play.

I'm male and I think you're way off base and don't think it's asking too much to see more playable females representing in gaming. Where exactly do I fit into your paradigm? Not trying to start an argument, but it's really a strange position being stated that is sadly too common. And notfornothin, but the "My best friend is a girl gamer!" sounds a lot like, "My best friend is [insert race here]!"

!

I highlighted and underlined that bit you missed sir!  I agree with you! That stance is perfectly reasonable. Creative influence should even be shared, if it's distinctly good for the game, story, and art. But what isn't reasonable? Coming into my culture, and expecting to acclimate it directly and only for female kind----with that ham fisted, to hell with everyone else sort of mentality-----. I don't think anyone here is pushing for that----but you'd be suprised how many female gamers I've ran into who do!

As for my friend? I cherish her. She is amazing. I don't think I'd be alive right now without her support and guidance, but that is neither here nor there----point is, she is an amazing shining example of what every human being should be---male or female---and to advocate her? I'd gladly do so 1000 fold.

Edit: Some grammer issues :S getting tired, bare with me!

Modifié par Rudest, 12 octobre 2012 - 04:36 .

[ParatrooperSean]

Chi_Mangetsu wrote...

I'm male and I think you're way off base and don't think it's asking too much to see more playable females representing in gaming. Where exactly do I fit into your paradigm? Not trying to start an argument, but it's really a strange position being stated that is sadly too common. And notfornothin, but the "My best friend is a girl gamer!" sounds a lot like, "My best friend is [insert race here]!"

There already are a ton of female MP classes to choose from. Do tell, what is the "acceptable" percentage in your eyes? 

[ysucae]

Rudest wrote...

Twilgiht is the worst thing to have ever happened to vampire fiction---and the word Twlight, which itself was markedly cool before that series.

Asari can be pretty deep though! Several underlying references to a hidden greater universal combined consciousness. I think Asari have a lesser known influence by someone experienced with psychedelic drugs or at least someone who is exploring his own consciousness.

I like women in games to have depth. Take femshep for example. She's strong, her voice actor sells her passion in a wide variety of range. I like her much more than the male Shepard. Male Shepard? The man's like a breadstick. He's got no rhythm. I like female roles that grow and evolve like Liara. I don't like seeing big-titted-bimbo types----Even they have their place mind you, but when a game is that and nothing but that, It's annoying. It's just not what I'm attracted to. I like female characters to be characters. In this culture though, there will be sex appeal for the sake of sex appeal! That's just true for America in general.

I mean. There is a place for the feminism you know? Just make sure you don't step on to many toes with it. There is a thin line between fighting for your beliefs and excessive extremism! hehe.

Change cannot be positive when it is afflicted on others!

I like the asari too! They're not perfect in term of design (ahem strippers), but I love'em. They're badass anti-damsel in distress and they own their sexuality. The underlying theme of the collective time-space conciousness is very interesting. I can't wait to play the infiltrator and sentinel and slap some collector ****es.

I have nothing against sex appeal too, as long as it is in character and that you cover up when you are in a vaccuum (ahem ME2). And as long as it isn't objectifying I won't complain. Because that's just sad then.

Dudeshep is hilarious when playing full renegade tho xD

I disagree on the last point. As a feminist you kind of have to step on toes and throw people off balance. Change can't be enacted simply by being nice and catering to everyone's needs. You have to demand. You have to be loud to be listened to, and go against open hostility, deep preconceptions and even institutions, at times. But here it is not the place for that kind of thing, so I just post my opinion. You simply can't have the same life experiences and I can't expect someone who is born a male to understand what is it like to be a female. It's nice to talk to people you don't agree to with respect and just exchange points of views.

[Shotgun Nova]

Being a Male here, I wouldn't mind it there were some female characters thrown into the bunch. I'm mostly neutral or captain obvious when it comes to discussions. So don't worry about having a debate with me!

(I can't debate for crap, unless I have a lot of time to process out what is being said... )

[ysucae]

oh, here's that friggin study page when I no longer need it:
http://www.geekquali...age-gamer-myth/

[Rudest]

@ysucae: 

I cannot wait to equip a Raider on that Sentinel and go to town. Mobile Durable. Mmmm... I'm all out of homemade Asari names though, I'll have to come up with a new one! 

Understanding the female mind is a hard thing to do. I've taken to sociology, psychology, and philosophy as hobbies and -still- don't completely understand them.  It doesn't help that several females (starting with my mother infact) in my life have had very negative influences/impacts on my life. I understand the vapid ones, and can pay them like puppets. But honestly, it is very hard for me not to generalize and stereotype. To create preconceptions and prejudgements. I also haven't walked a mile in your shoes persay, nor do I have any real experience dealing with any sort of discrimination. No one is perfect aye?

I am pretty fond the conversation we're having as well; it is indeed very rare to have a discussion and not an arguement! Kudos!

Modifié par Rudest, 12 octobre 2012 - 05:02 .

[Chi_Mangetsu]

ParatrooperSean wrote...

There already are a ton of female MP classes to choose from. Do tell, what is the "acceptable" percentage in your eyes?

Total classes: 59
Total females: 16 (Our definitions of "tons" differ, I think, especially when half of these are basic characters)
Total males: 40 (-3 for geth since they're genderless)

So that's a m/f ratio of 2.5 to 1. Just a little tweak, four more females to make it a 2:1 balance would be appreciated--so that might mean 1 krogan female, 1 turian female, and two others (maybe a female salarian). I really don't think that's asking for too much. Of course, there's a slot missing for both Sentinels and Vanguards, so maybe we'll get something there in the future. Who knows, maybe the turian saboteur is a female. Doubtful, but maybe.

Modifié par Chi_Mangetsu, 12 octobre 2012 - 05:10 .

[Rebel_Raven]

Ypiret wrote...

Rebel_Raven wrote...

What's the unreasonable part?
What's misguided? o.O
That bit confuses me.

Yeah, I have a bit of hypocracy in me. I don't deny it. I'm not perfect.
I think that's universal among the human race, though.

Westerns do seem rather uptight on the subject... Wait, how the heck do you know i'm a westerner? 

The unreasonable part is that you're getting upset over not having 50/50 gender representation in a videogames targeted at men. It's like a man complaining about the there being more female the male Babie dolls.

Misguided because... I don't know? I guess because you take all of this personaly or as an attack on your gender. Like the only reason you aren't seeing what you want is because everyone else believe women to be incompetant and whatnot. I guess I was just thinking of femenism in general when I wrote that part; if any of that stuff even falls in the category of misguided.

Also about the hypocracy thing, I just find it really hard for imagine you giving a crap if the problem was the other way around in the situation and males were the ones lacking whatever it is that you want. Which is the main problem I have with feminism; both genders are victims of gender roles but feminism only acknoledges one. I seriously can't understand why people just can't be egalitarian instead of categorizing who to give a damn about.

Also, you told me you're a westerner. We had a conversation when you were upset because you thought all the Earth female characters would suck and I told you to quit being Miss Negative Nancy

Whoa, whoa, whoa, we've miscommunicated here and there!

50/50 gender split would be an ideal, but it's NOT my goal. Do always remember that, please!
It's -not- the lack of a 50/50 split that upsetted me! It's the fact that there's a 1/7 split, and it could have been avoided in so many ways!

I'm just wanting a good ratio of female characters with the variety of playstyles to back it up.

Is 1/3 unreasonable for a DLC?

A 1/8 ratio isn't a good ratio for this DLC.
1/6 is upsetting, but tolerable.
Remember, they had a 0/6 ratio of women to men in one DLC. That's where I really blew up, if you'll remember?

Like it or not, the little oversights, like only one male quarian when it'd be really easy to make a female counterpart shines badly on Bioware. I don't know -why- they did it, but i reserve the right to read between the lines.

Hypocracy? I admitted I have a bit of that in me. Gotta accept that we all have faults.

I tell you what, when mass effect adds a half dozen all female DLCs, and reverses the representation percents, I'll champion the cause for more male characters.
Right now, guys get all the shiny new toys, like Turians with mobility in combat, volus, and a minimal mobility krogan in the future. I don't know if that means the Krogan can dodge or not, though. Maybe if there was a female high durability minimal mobility character I'd know from experience? 

What are the female population getting? Recycled powers, and, luckily a female sentinel that's been LONG over due, and another infiltrator.
We'll see how well they stack up, but I'm not expecting spectacular performance from the equivalent of a Human Female sentinel with Annihillation Field, and pretty much another infiltrator, biotic, or not.

Also, I have chimed in numerous times that I'd like to see more Drell, and salarians, and other under-represented alien species, male or not.  I'm not going to passionately champion the cause, mind you. I'd rather win this battle than another.

I'm perfectly okay with male versons of female characters provided there's female characters in the exchange.
I mean I don't like the male quarians a ton as they're constant reminders of an inadequate trade of mono-gender representation, BUT I'm certainly not demanding that they all need to go! Even with the fact that I'm still waiting on the exchange part. *Eyes Female Turians, female Krogans, and female Salarians.*

I can't pretend to know, from experience, what the guys are going through in this game, what with their massive selection of playstyles that's ever growing with every DLC. I really frikking wish I did. lol
Maybe if I did, I could be more egalitarian, and fight for the guy's causes, too.

I guess the unique powers women have could be a platform for understanding, but guys have unique powers, too. Lots of them!

My battles are picked on the bias, yes. Lots of people's are! Nothing wrong with that!
I think, maybe, I'm the ONLY person in the multiplayer forums to make threads really pushing for more female characters, see? I feel, sometimes, that while I have all the support in the world, I'm the only one actually going out to fight, and try and change things concerning the lack of female characters, and female playstyles.

Well, maybe I'm not the only one, but I haven't seen anyone else calling Bioware out on it in quite a long time!

'm not gunna hate on the people crusading for something other than my own agenda, and poke at them to join my crusade, and what not, though. I respect their goals, and ambitions so long as it's not in direct conflict with mine, and really, why would they?

Honestly? It's really really hard to be egalitarian, or want to be one when things aren't equal, or even remotely so.


P.S.

I think people are -really- overestimating the usefulness of Annihillation Field's defensive bonuses. You need to be practically hugging a shielded target to get a shield boost, and those shields are going to be depleted quickly coz you're in the business of killing them as well. That shield transfer boost won't last long.

But it does panic some units.

It's hardly a godmod invulnerability thing. It's just that you've got to, and often do kill so fast it doesn't matter. Well as far as peons go.

Modifié par Rebel_Raven, 12 octobre 2012 - 05:11 .

[Rudest]

@Raven:

That little added CC element is defense in itself! >.> I don't play fury much, but when I do that drain has saved me a couple times. Sentinel will be good times with a Wraith or Raider I'm pondering! I'm gonna let me shtogun do the talking. it with expose. <.<

Modifié par Rudest, 12 octobre 2012 - 05:18 .

[ysucae]

Rudest wrote...

@ysucae: 

I cannot wait to equip a raider on that Sentinel and go to town. Mobile Durable. Mmmm... I'm all out of homemade Asari names though, I'll have to come up with a new one! 

Understanding the female mind
is a hard thing to do. I've taken to sociology, psychology, and
philosophy as hobbies and -still- don't completely understand them.  It
doesn't help that several females (starting with my mother infact) in my life have had very negative influences/impacts on my life. I understand the vapid ones, and can pay them like puppets. But honestly, it is very hard for me not to generalize and stereotype. To create preconceptions and prejudgements. I also haven't walked a mile in your shoes persay, nor do I have any real experience dealing with any sort of discrimination. No one is perfect aye?

I am pretty fond the conversation we're having as well; it is indeed very rare to have a discussion and not an arguement! Kudos!

yessss my sentinel's gonna be a girly as sh*t badass with a shotgun or an assault rifle. going to take vengeance on those dragoons... sweet, sweet revenge.
still sad the new quarian soldier won't be female, though. eh. I guess it's back to more headcanon! xD

being a female is living under different conditions, different expectations, and being told very different, toxic things about ourselves. I could go on and on about rape culture and the friggin birth control debate but I'd rather talk about how asaris blowing the face of my enemies are the best. kudos for educating yourself, though. we all have to do to be better human beings.

perfection is overrated. or being a geth.

edit: also happy to converse with you! 

Modifié par ysucae, 12 octobre 2012 - 05:34 .

[Blind2Society]

Uchimura wrote...

Female Volus? Where?

It's funny because I noticed the change to your avatar while reading this post.

[ysucae]

Rebel_Raven wrote...

50/50 gender split would be an ideal, but it's NOT my goal. Do always remember that, please!
It's -not- the lack of a 50/50 split that upsetted me! It's the fact that there's a 1/7 split, and it could have been avoided in so many ways!

I'm just wanting a good ratio of female characters with the variety of playstyles to back it up.
[...]
Honestly? It's really really hard to be egalitarian, or want to be one when things aren't equal, or even remotely so.

So friggin this.
Just a little turian lady?
A quarian death machine that is a female? A non-asari non-human female freedom fighter?
We don't want to destroy the game, we want a little more representation, is all.

[Rebel_Raven]

Rudest wrote...

@Raven:

That little added CC element is defense in itself! >.> I don't play fury much, but when I do that drain has saved me a couple times. Sentinel will be good times with a Wraith or Raider I'm pondering! I'm gonna let me shtogun do the talking. it with expose. <.<

It's good, yes, but I think people are overrating it. It's not gunna stop a marauder from slamming his bionic arm into your face Muy Thai style, or shooting you while he still has shields.

Yes, you may drain his shields, but if you're at full shields it doesn't matter.

If you get elbowed while the marauder isn't at full shields, you'll likely have your shield gate hit, and regain what little shields the marauder had.

It sure isn't gunna help when a ravager is blasting you from across the map. lol
Or when you've already drained the barriers off a banshee, and have to finish her off. At least defensively.

It's very very close range, and kinda hard to make use of on large maps.

Most of the point for AF, for me, is to get in there, do damage en masse, strip shields, burn panic, and biotic explode as much as you can as fast as you can over using it as a defense.

[Rudest]

@ysucae

...There are two sides to that coin! Being a male is conflict and pain. As a male you are expected to walk a very thin line between who you really are and what society unrelentingly expects you to be. You're not supposed to show weakness. In relationships with women you're expected to be this dominant in control, confident, providing bad ass. You have to fight every fiber of your being that tells you to love, give, and care---you have to show some of that---but the moment you show to much, you are weak, you are boring. You have to present some sort of challenge.

Relationships with women that a man doesn't care about are so much easier to maintain than ones that aren't. That act is easier to maintain when you don't have feelings driving you to irrationally display your true self. Easier to maintain when you don't have an inner conflict to fight. Most men will never admit it, but female validation is one of the centerpieces to the masculine ego. It's hard to explain, but it's the most frustrating feeling you can fathom.

Speaking of Geth. That Geth trooper has fortification and hunter mode; both of these powers have power synergy evolutions, meaning that flamer will be amazing on him.

Modifié par Rudest, 12 octobre 2012 - 05:43 .

[Rudest]

@Raven: I haven't played with it enough to say really! I'll have to play with the Asari Sentinal when I get her, will prolly take me a couple cards to spec her just right!

If we end up getting to vote for what we want, it's looking like Drell Infiltrator/Geth Soldier/Asari Sentinel is the pecking order!

Modifié par Rudest, 12 octobre 2012 - 05:47 .

[Rebel_Raven]

Rudest wrote...

@Raven: I haven't played with it enough to say really! I'll have to play with the Asari Sentinal when I get her, will prolly take me a couple cards to spec her just right!

If we end up getting to vote for what we want, it's looking like Drell Infiltrator/Geth Soldier/Asari Sentinel is the pecking order!

'll prolly stay out of the official voting. I'm not really looking forward to anything in this DLC for obvious reasons, and that really hit my will to play in the daddybags.

[ysucae]

@Rudest

It's not a contest on who gets the most sh*t. I don't assume anything about you except that you are male and that you like a j(k?)pop band. xD and you shouldn't assume anything either.
male oppression mostly come from other males. you can't like 'girly' things because it makes you 'gay', etc. it is a subproduct of female oppression, which is systematic and entrenched in society. and a counterpart to you, I am expected to have kids be taken care of because I am a female. if I get depressed, it's because of my female hormones or my girl weaknesses. it's a balance, really. basically, the goal of feminism is to get rid of those norms and let people like what they want and express themselves how they want without repercussions, and not getting penalized by their gender or for not following the social norms. nothing more, nothing less.
relationships with men that doesn't care about you are very, very damaging. 

f*ck those people that tells you you have to be strong and giving at all times, basically. I provided for my partner for a long time and it doesn't make him less of a man. but I hear you on the girlfriend validation thing. relationships are messy. you tend to go for the people who shows they care.


oh I didn't know that. we will have a pyro geth? MORE SWEET REVENGE.

Modifié par ysucae, 12 octobre 2012 - 06:11 .

[Rudest]

@ysucae:

Visual kei is my guilty pleasure >.>

A bunch of the classes looked kind of disappointing to me till I analyzed them, and read some of what others saw in them----They click more than they appear to, the majority of them.