184 réponses à ce sujet

[SushiSquid]

mrcanada wrote...

Glad I'm not the only one. The seeming consensus on the Havoc soldier is that he is quite underwhelming.

Well, yeah. Havoc Strike is weak and dangerous. The only reason to even use it is to move quickly accross a long range, but to do that safely you'd have to be absolutely sure that enemy was alone, which you couldn't be at a long range.

I really don't see the purpose of this power. It's an AoE version of Biotic Charge, but the reason people like Biotic Charge is because it restores barriers. Havoc Strike just gets you killed or wastes a Stimulant Pack.

[madskilzs_30]

The havocs Heavy Melee is also very under powered for what i expected.

[ElementL09]

I usually charge, heavy melee and boost backwards or away from the enemy and rinse and repeat. I think with this class, since you only have a limited supply of stimulant packs, whenever you charge you got to make sure you have an out/or somewhere to get cover.

There probably could have been better choices for cryo blast though.

[Elecbender]

Sigh...

Whatever. Its not like this is the only thing I completely disagree with the consensus of BSN.

[Gamemako]

SushiSquid wrote...

I really don't see the purpose of this power. It's an AoE version of Biotic Charge, but the reason people like Biotic Charge is because it restores barriers. Havoc Strike just gets you killed or wastes a Stimulant Pack.

Havoc Strike is not AoE unless you take the Rank 6 evo. //EDIT: Actually, I'm not sure about this. Regardless, Biotic Charge is AoE if you take the Rank 4 evo and hits a max of 3 targets.

Havoc Strike does more damage, but it really needs to do a lot more damage. Biotic Charge is more about the shield recharge and buffs for continued aggression. Havoc Strike just doesn't offer this sustained ability, which means that it has to be for clearing out small groups fast before bailing. To that end, it lacks the firepower to be viable.

Modifié par Gamemako, 10 octobre 2012 - 01:31 .

[SushiSquid]

Elecbender wrote...

Sigh...

Whatever. Its not like this is the only thing I completely disagree with the consensus of BSN.

Okay, enlighten us. How is it useful? It's very dangerous and weak, basically necessitating a use of Stimulant Pack just to survive a move that causes less damage than if you'd have just sat back in cover and kept shooting. What the hell is the point of that?

[FatalionPanic]

piranha (shredder+barrel)
stim pack then charge and take out as much as possible

I noticed a pretty decent shield recovery while charging - awesome to get the shield gate up
also spamming that charge results in a lot of bullet-dodging
charge to kite out or as said above: charge+immediate backwards-dodge works decent for survival

without stim pack? not worth it, imo

I love the new Turian mobility <3

mrcanada wrote...

Is the heavy melee an AOE? You'd think it would be but it doesn't seem to be one.

yes

[kyles3]

I've been having a lot of fun with this guy on Gold. I only have three points in fitness, but have stims spec'd for maximum survivability. I pop a stim, charge in (with AOE evo), then back away firing my shotgun. Especially satisfying against Ravagers.

Modifié par kyles3, 10 octobre 2012 - 01:31 .

[SushiSquid]

Exactly the point. Both of you admit Havoc Strike is only useful when using a Stimulant Pack with it. Those are just a grenade, which means you need to compare them to grenades on any other class.

Basically, you're spending points to master two skills and using a grenade just to perform a move that's weaker than what any other class can do with one mastered grenade skill.

[Cyonan]

Gamemako wrote...
Havoc Strike is not AoE unless you take the Rank 6 evo. //EDIT: Actually, I'm not sure about this. Regardless, Biotic Charge is AoE if you take the Rank 4 evo and hits a max of 3 targets.

Havoc Strike does more damage, but it really needs to do a lot more damage. Biotic Charge is more about the shield recharge and buffs for continued aggression. Havoc Strike just doesn't offer this sustained ability, which means that it has to be for clearing out small groups fast before bailing. To that end, it lacks the firepower to be viable.

Havoc Strike has a max targets of 1, which it can also cause the ragdoll effect on, before picking up evolution 6. It does have a 1.5 meter impact radius, but that doesn't mean anything since it's only going to hit 1 target.

It also gets the 4 seconds of 50% damage reduction that Biotic Charge gets, but not the full on damage immunity during the charge.

[SushiSquid]

Cyonan wrote...

Havoc Strike has a max targets of 1, which it can also cause the ragdoll effect on, before picking up evolution 6. It does have a 1.5 meter impact radius, but that doesn't mean anything since it's only going to hit 1 target.

It also gets the 4 seconds of 50% damage reduction that Biotic Charge gets, but not the full on damage immunity during the charge.

Thanks for the informaiton on how it works. What's your opinion on this power?

[FatalionPanic]

SushiSquid wrote...

Exactly the point. Both of you admit Havoc Strike is only useful when using a Stimulant Pack with it. Those are just a grenade, which means you need to compare them to grenades on any other class.

Basically, you're spending points to master two skills and using a grenade just to perform a move that's weaker than what any other class can do with one mastered grenade skill.

I'm looking at it this way: I get 9seconds (per stim) of shield and damage boost to get some rampage going
awesome mobility - I mean dodging rockets has never been that satisfying - and rechargable FREE "Survival Packs"!
remember: you can pop that stims like candy for free in any situation

I've never liked grenades but this puts them to a whole new (awesome) level.
Stims making it the first class I consider not going for fitness with - that's a new one for me tbh.

Hands down, Kroguards still outtank this guy, but tanking ain't the Havoc's job.

Did I say awesome yet?
Awesome!

[SushiSquid]

Okay... and what that you just mentioned can a Ghost not also do, but better because he has awesome Tactical Cloak and Overload instead of worthless Havoc Strike and Cryo Blast?

Stimulant Pack being good doesn't make Havoc Strike good.

Modifié par SushiSquid, 10 octobre 2012 - 01:50 .

[Cyonan]

SushiSquid wrote...

Thanks for the informaiton on how it works. What's your opinion on this power?

It's like it wants to be Biotic Charge but it doesn't want to be an exact copy of Biotic Charge. I feel like it needs something else to set it apart rather than just being an inferior version of Biotic Charge. Damage is the most obvious thing to give it instead of just slapping shield regen on it and calling it a day. Also more force so I can stagger Gold Phantoms with it(Might be able to with evo 5, but you can't if you picked AoE).

The Stim Packs can keep you alive pretty well, but it's basically required that you have Grenade Gear V and are ready to use multiple Thermal Clip Packs, or are the only one using grenades in the game. They have the same anti-synergy that all grenadiers do, except it's not your damage that suffers for it, but rather your ability to stay alive.

The ability looks incredibly awesome, but it does need a bit of a buff imo.

[landylan]

You have to use stim packs before charging in my experience, but he still sucks. You can't continuously pop out your temporary health boost. You also can't do it while in the middle of actions like dodging or charging.

I play him like a weapons character. Mostly cryo blasting and charging to kill weaker characters and run.

Here's an idea of how bad he sucks. Imagine a biotic charge that can't stun the phantoms anymore and doesn't restore shields the instant you come out of charge. Also, it only restores shields a limited number of times.

Modifié par landylan, 10 octobre 2012 - 01:55 .

[Reizo Ryuu]

Ghost doesn't need overload at all, I spec'd him without it and he just wrecks and wrecks.
The key with the havoc is that you keep setting off those fire exposions; you can immediately dodge away after a strike so it's also pretty safe, I haven't really been dying like others have mentioned here.

[kyles3]

Yeah, I basically play the Havoc like a more dynamic Kroguard. I think he's got a very well-rounded set of abilities.

[FatalionPanic]

... that charge is a tec power, does it trigger prime tec combos? o_O
I've only soloed the Havoc so far ... w/o cryo blast

Don't those fire explosions deal a pretty big amount of damage? Incendiary Ammo?

[TheKillerAngel]

Ignore Cryo completely.

Get an ammo with a strong detonation effect (I like Incendiary).
Spec for AoE charge
Equip max grenade gear.
Fire weapon
Charge into group = detonate effect
Profit

[ZephyrAM]

I have rather a side question to this point: is Havoc Strike considered a Melee power, Tech power, or what? So far as taking gear that would up it's capability: tech dmg or melee dmg?

I've looked around quite a bit, but haven't found an answer anywhere.

[FatalionPanic]

ZephyrAM wrote...

I have rather a side question to this point: is Havoc Strike considered a Melee power, Tech power, or what? So far as taking gear that would up it's capability: tech dmg or melee dmg?

I've looked around quite a bit, but haven't found an answer anywhere.

Tech

TheKillerAngel wrote...

Ignore Cryo completely.

Get an ammo with a strong detonation effect (I like Incendiary).
Spec for AoE charge
Equip max grenade gear.
Fire weapon
Charge into group = detonate effect
Profit

<3 this! Thanks for the clearance

Modifié par FatalionPanic, 10 octobre 2012 - 02:05 .

[mrcanada]

Havoc Strike should have some set damage reduction that can be buffed with evolutions to set it apart from BC. It isn't a defense of the ability when the only use of them is to pop stim packs incessently, that's pretty silly.

The choice of Cryo Blast is the biggest boon to the kit though. If you could reliably cryo burst with your charge, it would be worth it, but since it only works on frozen and not chilled enemies, the power is essentially useless on the class. They would have been much better served getting the Overload from the Infiltrator or some other tech power they could combo off of. Cryo just doesn't cut it

Stim+Charge+Heavy Melee retreat still gets you killed if you aren't very careful. You'd think that 5k shields would make you a walking god. The reality is you are surprisingly squishy even with those added shields.

[SushiSquid]

TheKillerAngel wrote...

Ignore Cryo completely.

Get an ammo with a strong detonation effect (I like Incendiary).
Spec for AoE charge
Equip max grenade gear.
Fire weapon
Charge into group = detonate effect
Profit

Basically anything detonates fire/tech/cryo bursts. Suicide Strike's ability to do it too isn't impressive.

[mrcanada]

TheKillerAngel wrote...

Ignore Cryo completely.

Get an ammo with a strong detonation effect (I like Incendiary).
Spec for AoE charge
Equip max grenade gear.
Fire weapon
Charge into group = detonate effect
Profit

And die if you didn't pop a stim. Might still die even with one on .

[mrcanada]

kyles3 wrote...

Yeah, I basically play the Havoc like a more dynamic Kroguard. I think he's got a very well-rounded set of abilities.

If by well rounded you mean everyone should ignore Cryo Blast then, ya?