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[Deathcrave]

His charge should make him invulnerable while performing it, as its animation is longer than charge and it cannot be used unless your already out of cover and have a CLEAR line of sight and CLEAR movement path to the enemy.

They have a shield restore power already so it shouldnt restore shields, but a rank 5 or 6 choice should be hardening, 40% damage reduction after a charge for 6 seconds.

I love this characer, but the stealth on the Ghost is just more useful.

[Lima54]

I played a match with him against Reapers/Gold and didn't have a problem staying alive. 6-4-6-6-4 (I think I'm going to spec him out of cryo blast). Grenade gear, incendiary ammo, shoot at the enemy, stim pack and charge, fire explosion, shoot some more, charge, fire explosion and so on. I had no problem running out of stim packs, but I think I still have to test it on Platinum.

[RiouHotaru]

Is Havoc Strike a Combat Power, or a Melee Attack? This -is- rather important. We know Shadow Strike was a melee attack, so it benefitted from both Fitness -and- the N7 Mastery.

[Gamemako]

Deathcrave wrote...

They have a shield restore power already so it shouldnt restore shields, but a rank 5 or 6 choice should be hardening, 40% damage reduction after a charge for 6 seconds.

It already has a 50% DR bonus for 4 seconds, same as Biotic Charge. Both effects are hidden.

[mrcanada]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Is Havoc Strike a Combat Power, or a Melee Attack? This -is- rather important. We know Shadow Strike was a melee attack, so it benefitted from both Fitness -and- the N7 Mastery.

It isn't acting like a melee from what I could tell and it is giving tech burst bonuses, so it's likely tech only. 

[mrcanada]

Gamemako wrote...

Deathcrave wrote...

They have a shield restore power already so it shouldnt restore shields, but a rank 5 or 6 choice should be hardening, 40% damage reduction after a charge for 6 seconds.

It already has a 50% DR bonus for 4 seconds, same as Biotic Charge. Both effects are hidden.

If it does, it's difficult to tell.

[SushiSquid]

Havoc Strike is almost certainly just a combat power. Almost everything triggers tech bursts (and now fire and cryo), so that's not a good way to tell what it is. It certainly doesn't seem to benefit from melee damage increases, though. Shadow Strike was specifically designed that way and mentions it. I doubt they'd slip that in with no note.

[RiouHotaru]

mrcanada wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Is Havoc Strike a Combat Power, or a Melee Attack? This -is- rather important. We know Shadow Strike was a melee attack, so it benefitted from both Fitness -and- the N7 Mastery.

It isn't acting like a melee from what I could tell and it is giving tech burst bonuses, so it's likely tech only. 

One of it's evo is a tech burst upgrade?  Ahh, so it would benefit from Omni-capacitors then.  Good to know.  While I agree the damage could probably use a little buff, it's obvious (to me anyway) that you cannot use it like Biotic Charge.  If you ask me, treat it like Shadow Strike.  It has to be used precisely, not by just mashing it on cooldown every chance you get.

[SushiSquid]

It does not have any evolutions for tech bursts, nor does it prime them. It can detonate, but almost anything can detonate tech bursts.

And comparing a skill that maxes around 1000 damage to Shadow Strike, which now with the new shotgun mod can max at doing over 12,000 is not a good comparison.

[RiouHotaru]

SushiSquid wrote...

Havoc Strike is almost certainly just a combat power. Almost everything triggers tech bursts (and now fire and cryo), so that's not a good way to tell what it is. It certainly doesn't seem to benefit from melee damage increases, though. Shadow Strike was specifically designed that way and mentions it. I doubt they'd slip that in with no note.

Well, we had to have a Dev -tell- us Shadow Strike counted as a melee.  It wasn't originally listed in the description as such.  Fitness mentioned "sword attacks", which lead people to ask if SS counted as a "sword attack'.  So the synergy wasn't obvious.

[RiouHotaru]

SushiSquid wrote...

It does not have any evolutions for tech bursts, nor does it prime them. It can detonate, but almost anything can detonate tech bursts.

And comparing a skill that maxes around 1000 damage to Shadow Strike, which now with the new shotgun mod can max at doing over 12,000 is not a good comparison.

It is a good comparison.  The damage doesn't have to be similar to make the comparison.  The comparison is in their use.  Shadow Strike isn't always safe on execution (ask people who've had enemies turn around mid-use to smack the Shadow as as soon as she reappears), and if used inappropriately can put you between a rock and a hard place with no means of escape.

Also, that 12k Shadow Strike requires a very specific build and very specific circumstances to execute, so that's really not a fair comparison either.

[Hyperglide]

The Turian Havoc sucks. Very disappointed with this character. The charge is weak as hell I couldn't even kill an Assault Trooper on Silver with it. Mind you I didn't spec it for full damage, but it's still a very poor kit. Cryo Blast synergizes terribly with it and the Stim packs (aaah that's the stuff) are a terrible ability. Grenade buffs!!!

[AlistairsGirl]

mrcanada wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

In the gold games I've played so far, Havoc's havent had any trouble staying alive. But then again, I was playing a volus adept set up for spam heals, so that might have had something to do with it. Very good combination, by the way.

I've noticed that if there isn't anyone around to help with shields, those Havocs go down relatively quickly unless they are staying back and shooting only.  

I've played three matches and just dont' see an option on how to charge successfully other than picking off stragglers.

Granted, I only play silver, but the only time I really charge is when:-

1) I've cryo'd and frozen a group of low level mooks to kill them with cryo explosion.
2) I've cryo'd an amored higher level target with only 1 or 2 blips of health left to finish him off
3) I've been backed into a corner and need out quickly
4) A fast forward to a downed ally

I love the move!  It might be because it's all new and shiny, but the havoc soldier is my baby at the moment.  I might go down once or twice a match.  Maybe three or four with collectors <_< lol.

The stim packs are a godsend!

[SushiSquid]

RiouHotaru wrote...

It is a good comparison.  The damage doesn't have to be similar to make the comparison.  The comparison is in their use.  Shadow Strike isn't always safe on execution (ask people who've had enemies turn around mid-use to smack the Shadow as as soon as she reappears), and if used inappropriately can put you between a rock and a hard place with no means of escape.

Also, that 12k Shadow Strike requires a very specific build and very specific circumstances to execute, so that's really not a fair comparison either.

I use Shadow Strike as my main attack on a Shadow. It's usually safe to use if you took the Damage Protection on it (you only lose a small damage value for this), Bonus Power on Cloak, and you cloak and dodge left or right before using it to remove aggro.

And you can still achieve 11,000 on shields/barriers or armor (depending on your choice) with a partial damage build. It's not all that specific. Shadows simply hit that freaking hard. With no equipment, just gear and a melee mod, you'll still be slamming down for over 9,000!!!!! damage on your chosen domain.

Modifié par SushiSquid, 10 octobre 2012 - 05:25 .

[AlistairsGirl]

Hyperglide wrote...

The Turian Havoc sucks. Very disappointed with this character. The charge is weak as hell I couldn't even kill an Assault Trooper on Silver with it. Mind you I didn't spec it for full damage, but it's still a very poor kit. Cryo Blast synergizes terribly with it and the Stim packs (aaah that's the stuff) are a terrible ability. Grenade buffs!!!

You're doing it wrong then.

[DatFeel]

The Turian Charge just failed to kill a Swarmer...

[RiouHotaru]

SushiSquid wrote...

I use Shadow Strike as my main attack on a Shadow. It's usually safe to use if you took the Damage Protection on it (you only lose a small damage value for this), Bonus Power on Cloak, and you cloak and dodge left or right before using it to remove aggro.

And you can still achieve 11,000 on shields/barriers or armor (depending on your choice) with a partial damage build. It's not all that specific. Shadows simply hit that freaking hard. With no equipment, just gear and a melee mod, you'll still be slamming down for over 9,000!!!!! damage on your chosen domain.

...You are aware that the Fitness Mastery Shield-Barrier/Armor bonus does NOT affect Shadow Strike, yes?

[Hyperglide]

AlistairsGirl wrote...

Hyperglide wrote...

The Turian Havoc sucks. Very disappointed with this character. The charge is weak as hell I couldn't even kill an Assault Trooper on Silver with it. Mind you I didn't spec it for full damage, but it's still a very poor kit. Cryo Blast synergizes terribly with it and the Stim packs (aaah that's the stuff) are a terrible ability. Grenade buffs!!!

You're doing it wrong then.

Then pray tell how I to do it right, guru of all that is holy.

Seriously BW should not have released this kit at all.  What I mean by that is did they not even play test this character?  What's the point of slapping on a useless ability no one is going to use (I've already gone through about 3 pages and a lot of people aren't even speccing Cryo Blast) and another that is a consumable only ability and only lasts for 6-9 seconds and is pretty much required to use Havoc Strike to not die on freakin' Silver.  <_<  I don't want to keep running to an ammo box whever I use a primary ability, and I don't like to use Grenade Capacity upgrades either as it leaves very little flexibility in builds.  

Now to not totally slag this new kit.  I like his look, his mobility, the melee attack and the look of his charge is aesthetically pleasing to watch, but it feels like he's hitting enemies with a whiffle bat with the paltry damage it does.   I agree with everything SushiSquid has said in this thread thus far too.  He's made a lot of valid points about this build.

No point in glazing over it.  

Modifié par Hyperglide, 10 octobre 2012 - 05:41 .

[SushiSquid]

RiouHotaru wrote...

...You are aware that the Fitness Mastery Shield-Barrier/Armor bonus does NOT affect Shadow Strike, yes?

Have you been gone for a week? That was patched already and now it does work. Go try it.

Modifié par SushiSquid, 10 octobre 2012 - 05:41 .

[tfoltz]

Not a fan so far.

[LeandroBraz]

He is fine. He don't need to be able to charge all the time, don't need to be a tech novaguard. Charge end up being more strategical, you can bring hell for some time with stim, so choose wisely when to do it, and if you gonna have a way to GTFO...

I like it, chars (and weapons) need to have some kind of weakness, to bring some risk to the game.

[RiouHotaru]

SushiSquid wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

...You are aware that the Fitness Mastery Shield-Barrier/Armor bonus does NOT affect Shadow Strike, yes?

Have you been gone for a week? That was patched already and now it does work. Go try it.

I was playing my Shadow earlier today, but I did not notice this.  I'll have to check the multiplayer changes to see if this is the case.

[AlistairsGirl]

Hyperglide wrote...

AlistairsGirl wrote...

Hyperglide wrote...

The Turian Havoc sucks. Very disappointed with this character. The charge is weak as hell I couldn't even kill an Assault Trooper on Silver with it. Mind you I didn't spec it for full damage, but it's still a very poor kit. Cryo Blast synergizes terribly with it and the Stim packs (aaah that's the stuff) are a terrible ability. Grenade buffs!!!

You're doing it wrong then.

Then pray tell how I to do it right, guru of all that is holy.

Seriously BW should not have released this kit at all.  What I mean by that is did they not even play test this character?  What's the point of slapping on a useless ability no one is going to use (I've already gone through about 3 pages and a lot of people aren't even speccing Cryo Blast) and another that is a consumable only ability and only lasts for 6-9 seconds and is pretty much required to use Havoc Strike to not die on freakin' Silver.  <_<  I don't want to keep running to an ammo box whever I use a primary ability, and I don't like to use Grenade Capacity upgrades either as it leaves very little flexibility in builds.  

Now to not totally slag this new kit.  I like his look, his mobility, the melee attack and the look of his charge is aesthetically pleasing to watch, but it feels like he's hitting enemies with a whiffle bat with the paltry damage it does.   I agree with everything SushiSquid has said in this thread thus far too.  He's made a lot of valid points about this build.

No point in glazing over it.  

Look, I'm not trying to be a d**k and I'm sorry if you took it that way by the looks of your condescending statement.

I've also read that alot of people are speccing out of cryoblast, I sure as hell love it on the havoc.  As I said in an earlier post up there somewhere, I play mainly silver.  Since you're stating you couldn't even kill a mook in silver with his strike, I'm going to assume you play it too.  I've also read on here that people are using the havoc soldier as a vanguard, which is silly.

I don't understand what you mean by having to use the stimpack for the strike to be survivable?  I've never had to do that personally.

My strategy (emphasis on MY) is to cryo a group of ground troops until they're frozen, then strike.  It causes a cryo explosion, and if anything is left standing a quick shot to the face with my shotgun cleans up.  Followed by a quick backwards jump if needed, so I can get in range to cryo something else.  Rinse repeat.   I've never has any problems what so ever.  If my shield bar empties, I pop a stim if there's no cover around.  I don't carry grenade gear, in fact I didn't even know carrying it raised the amount of stims you have in game until this thread.  I take my shotgun gear.  So I only ever have 2 stim packs at a time.  I'm constantly on the move, even more so then I was before this dlc so refilling my stims isn't even an after thought.

You don't like the havoc, so be it.  Hey, I don't like the sentinels.  But in my experience, the havoc is great and works just fine for me.

[Immortal Strife]

The bottoms line is that Havok strike is not damaging in it's current form. Until more is done, your best bet is to max weapon damage, and weapon damage bonuses and use the stim packs for weapon bonuses and a shield gate. 6/6/6/6/0 is the most damaging build, much like the Ghost's 6/6/6/6/0-this one (infiltrator) should have been obvious being that he is the only infiltrator who can cloak run and shield gen when ever needed.

[RudolfH]

I had fun with my Havoc (both soldier and Infiltrator but prefer the infiltrator). Must admit that the Havoc strike seemed a little weak so I stopped using it and concentrated on weapon damage. What I really like is 'his' ability to move in and out of areas quickly - very useful. Sorta make up for the low damage on strikes...