184 réponses à ce sujet

[Xaijin]

THE Terry wrote...

I agree with TC, the charge could use some sort of damage reduction or something. Charging anything (the havoks only real offensive move) results in death more often than not.

Pretty sure 4000 health is more than enough to sustain a charge.

Pick your targets.

[Hyperglide]

AlistairsGirl wrote...

Hyperglide wrote...

AlistairsGirl wrote...

Hyperglide wrote...

The Turian Havoc sucks. Very disappointed with this character. The charge is weak as hell I couldn't even kill an Assault Trooper on Silver with it. Mind you I didn't spec it for full damage, but it's still a very poor kit. Cryo Blast synergizes terribly with it and the Stim packs (aaah that's the stuff) are a terrible ability. Grenade buffs!!!

You're doing it wrong then.

Then pray tell how I to do it right, guru of all that is holy.

Seriously BW should not have released this kit at all.  What I mean by that is did they not even play test this character?  What's the point of slapping on a useless ability no one is going to use (I've already gone through about 3 pages and a lot of people aren't even speccing Cryo Blast) and another that is a consumable only ability and only lasts for 6-9 seconds and is pretty much required to use Havoc Strike to not die on freakin' Silver.  <_<  I don't want to keep running to an ammo box whever I use a primary ability, and I don't like to use Grenade Capacity upgrades either as it leaves very little flexibility in builds.  

Now to not totally slag this new kit.  I like his look, his mobility, the melee attack and the look of his charge is aesthetically pleasing to watch, but it feels like he's hitting enemies with a whiffle bat with the paltry damage it does.   I agree with everything SushiSquid has said in this thread thus far too.  He's made a lot of valid points about this build.

No point in glazing over it.  

Look, I'm not trying to be a d**k and I'm sorry if you took it that way by the looks of your condescending statement.

I've also read that alot of people are speccing out of cryoblast, I sure as hell love it on the havoc.  As I said in an earlier post up there somewhere, I play mainly silver.  Since you're stating you couldn't even kill a mook in silver with his strike, I'm going to assume you play it too.  I've also read on here that people are using the havoc soldier as a vanguard, which is silly.

I don't understand what you mean by having to use the stimpack for the strike to be survivable?  I've never had to do that personally.

My strategy (emphasis on MY) is to cryo a group of ground troops until they're frozen, then strike.  It causes a cryo explosion, and if anything is left standing a quick shot to the face with my shotgun cleans up.  Followed by a quick backwards jump if needed, so I can get in range to cryo something else.  Rinse repeat.   I've never has any problems what so ever.  If my shield bar empties, I pop a stim if there's no cover around.  I don't carry grenade gear, in fact I didn't even know carrying it raised the amount of stims you have in game until this thread.  I take my shotgun gear.  So I only ever have 2 stim packs at a time.  I'm constantly on the move, even more so then I was before this dlc so refilling my stims isn't even an after thought.

You don't like the havoc, so be it.  Hey, I don't like the sentinels.  But in my experience, the havoc is great and works just fine for me.

I usually play Gold but I playtest on Silver.  I only played a few rounds with him and I was tired so maybe I didn't give him a fair chance but 750 damage for a level 6 primary ability that takes about 4.5 seconds to cool down doesn't cut it for a primary.  I played the same way as you.  I would Cryo a group and try to get some AoE cryo blasts going (I was playing with 3 asari who dominated the match with tons of BE's) so that was moot.  Plus I wanted to get a feel for Havoc strike and how best to use it.  It seems the best use would be just to get around the maps or out of a sticky situation at the moment.  

So I spec'ed him mostly to be a nother shooty Turian who is not as good at shooting things as my Sentinel or Soldier.  So again he's terrible.  

Modifié par Hyperglide, 10 octobre 2012 - 06:17 .

[Gamemako]

Immortal Strife wrote...

The bottoms line is that Havok strike is not damaging in it's current form.

The problem is that it isn't up to snuff in its current form. To use Havoc Strike, you have to spec two skills, use a grenade power, and use your cooldown set. That's a whole lot of cost. Meanwhile, Lift Grenades will deal more than twice the damage over nearly three times the radius to many more targets (I believe max targets is 5) and it doesn't hit your cooldown or leave you vulnerable. This is just one arbitrary selection. Havoc Strike requires so much that almost any comparison is fair, and they're never favorable to Havoc Strike.

[heybigmoney]

Weapon synergy on havoc charge is the way to go imo. I've been running the full melee synergy charge nova combo and it blows.

[RiouHotaru]

Gamemako wrote...

Immortal Strife wrote...

The bottoms line is that Havok strike is not damaging in it's current form.

The problem is that it isn't up to snuff in its current form. To use Havoc Strike, you have to spec two skills, use a grenade power, and use your cooldown set. That's a whole lot of cost. Meanwhile, Lift Grenades will deal more than twice the damage over nearly three times the radius to many more targets (I believe max targets is 5) and it doesn't hit your cooldown or leave you vulnerable. This is just one arbitrary selection. Havoc Strike requires so much that almost any comparison is fair, and they're never favorable to Havoc Strike.

Again, the problem is people are playing the Havoc like he's a turian vanguard.  He's not.  A lot of people are headscratching as to why he has Cryo Blast when it's obvious.  It's to set off a burst with his Strike.  He's not meant to go jetpacking into a mob and become a bladed dervish of destruction.  (At least not on any difficulty above Bronze).  I realize I sound like a broken record, but the problem is folks want Havoc Strike to stand completely on it's own.  When it's made to work with his moveset.  Stimpack probably makes him one of the most self-sufficent characters outside of the Volus.

[Tal_Elmar]

The strike defo needs some buffing and I hope it will get one, but other than that, the Havoc isn't really a Vanguard. I use his strike mostly to close in with the enemy or free my teammate from Praetorian or Banshee grip. It's not a biotic charge, it's meant to quickly cover the distance and then shoot the enemies in their faces while your increased weap damage lasts. Then you quickly fly away to cover. Steampack is better used before the charge to add more durability. And be sure you have the second one in case your retreat gets nasty. Overall, I specced my Turian for max shields exactly to sustain the heavy damage he receives while charging.
Now the weapon loadout is Harrier (might change it, too low ammo for a mobile class and weights too much) and Reegar to be close and personal.
Works great against Collectors and will work even better against known enemies, I'm sure. I'm still experimenting, but that mobility of his...precious

[JustinSonic]

Grenade capacity, then stim pack+Havoc Strike. I find this to be the best combo for this guy, but he can go down easier.

The ONLY way I can think of buffing him would be to make the move stronger. Don't give him shields or restore barrier, just do that. It'll work.

[STRANGE10VE]

In its present state, havok strike is a bronze or silver power.  I really like the havok soldier though.  The first time I used him I thought it was alot of fun, but I wished he had adrenaline rush.  Havok strike would give me a reason to pick use one offensive power.

[Necrotron]

I speced my Havoc for melee are went to town on gold earlier today. Quickly found a good rythum where I would Havoc Strike, Dodge, Heavy Melee, Dodge, Havoc Strike.

Really seemed very effective and their excellent movement in the dodge allowed me to safely Havoc Strike Atlas, Phantoms, etc. etc. Their dodge will even get you far enough away from a Banshee to avoid her nova.

The invulnerability frames Havoc Strike provides are amazing. Combined with some well timed dodges you can survive just about anything, assuming you avoid getting stunned or staggered.

[Necrotron]

...double post...

Modifié par Bathaius, 10 octobre 2012 - 09:15 .

[Homey C-Dawg]

Havoc is a lot of fun, but I think his heavy melee could use a damage and/or radius boost considering the risks. Did I mention he has the batarian's epic light melee.

His havoc strike doesn't recharge your shields like charge does, but it still has invincibility frames that you can abuse to mitigate heavy damage strikes like atlas and scion shots.

The stim packs are amazing as long as you can keep them stocked up. Full shields and shield boost without cutting into my cooldown? Yes please.

Unlike some it seems, I think he's a very fun and fast paced class to play. Would like to see a small melee boost as I'm a melee fanatic.

[Gamemako]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Again, the problem is people are playing the Havoc like he's a turian vanguard.  He's not.

You're right. He's a Turian Vanguard with a gimped version of Charge that doesn't restore his barrier.

Also, ROFL @ your plan. Wasting points speccing into the worst skill in the game, wasting cooldown time, wasting DPS time, and using it a few more times since everything dodged it, all to set off explosions that you could set off with ammo powers? classic.

Modifié par Gamemako, 10 octobre 2012 - 05:38 .

[ilaardi]

Equip grenade capacity five. Use charge, immediately use heavy melee, immediately use jets to jump backwards, cooldown on charge is ready, repeat, use stim pack and weapon inbetween as needed. 

Imo this works pretty well. With stimpacks and jetpack leap combined with charge he can do pretty impressive maneuvers. I dont play platinum though.

[UB3RD4NG]

I'd like to see Havoc Strike not require a target and be a bomb/strafe move. It would be a skillshot (any other moba players out there?) that jets forward x distance and discharges y weapon damage per second to everything below you. You can still get the aoe damage/force on impact, but it would be much lower, moreso just to ensure your survival.

[mistervirginia]

mrcanada wrote...

I've tried multiple ways to spec him, melee and weapon and unless you are burning stim packs everytime you charge, you are unlikely to survive on higher levels. Cryo blast was another option for bursts, but that yields little success as well. I can make him work and I may be missing something, but there are far better options and the charge only ever puts him in danger without the option of it replenishing shields like a Vanguard.

Thoughts?

i've posted my build a lot now lol
try this on Gold and you'll be fine

[BiowareHeph]

OmegaRex wrote...

he's fine.

Sure it looks like biotic charge but that doesn't mean you're supposed to use it like it's biotic charge

This.

One guy I played with had good luck with Havok Strike forward, Jet pack back twice.  It's more useful as a hit and run tactic rather than a 'clear spawn solo' tactic.

[UB3RD4NG]

BiowareHeph wrote...

OmegaRex wrote...

he's fine.

Sure it looks like biotic charge but that doesn't mean you're supposed to use it like it's biotic charge

This.

One guy I played with had good luck with Havok Strike forward, Jet pack back twice.  It's more useful as a hit and run tactic rather than a 'clear spawn solo' tactic.

The problem with this argument is you can do this with biotic charge also.  All vanguards bar the kroguard can dash back for escapability and/or DR.  Havok strike then gives us less damage, less force, far less range, far less predictability (when you factor in travel time vs biotic charge), no shield recharge, no invulnerability during the travel animation (might be some after it), and no biotic detonation potential.  

I fail to see what it does better than biotic charge.<_<

[adamjmorgan]

What are people even talking about Havoc Strike so much for?! Everyone seems to think that this guy is a Vanguard when he SO CLEARLY isn't. HS is for relocation, and as one person said correctly, for detonating cryoblast. It also serves greatly as an emergency button when you need invulnerability for a second while you charge to dodge space magic or brutes etc.

This character is all about putting out MASSIVE weapon damage w/ Cryo Blast buffs, weapon buffs from HS (only way to go past bronze or silver), and the occasional damage buff from combat drugs.

As some have said, this class is one of the most self sufficient in the game if you put on Warfighter gear or Grenade Gear and play him like an extremely mobile guerrilla fighter.

I have him specc'd 6/6/6/4/4. Could potentially drop the last rank in HS, but I like it for emergencies to give you some breathing room when you land.

[UB3RD4NG]

So he's a vanilla ranged soldier with a damage steroid that's dependent on grenades that is much inferior to AR, DvM, and MM and can jet around a bit?
Underwhelming because it doesn't bring anything NEW... but I suppose I can deal with that. Hit and run has existed ever since the original human soldier (and I'd argue he's the most effective at it other than a good slayer).

Edit: I don't want to say he sucks, but rather to voice my disappointment that nothing groundbreaking was included in his kit other than giving turians some jets.  I'll be interested in seeing what the rest of the new operatives have to offer, especially since the two Volus, the TGI, and all 6 of the previous N7 characters gave us drastically different playstyles from what was then available.

I'd still like to see Havoc Strike turned into a bomb/strafe move as stated above though.

Modifié par UB3RD4NG, 10 octobre 2012 - 07:05 .

[mrcanada]

RiouHotaru wrote...

SushiSquid wrote...

I use Shadow Strike as my main attack on a Shadow. It's usually safe to use if you took the Damage Protection on it (you only lose a small damage value for this), Bonus Power on Cloak, and you cloak and dodge left or right before using it to remove aggro.

And you can still achieve 11,000 on shields/barriers or armor (depending on your choice) with a partial damage build. It's not all that specific. Shadows simply hit that freaking hard. With no equipment, just gear and a melee mod, you'll still be slamming down for over 9,000!!!!! damage on your chosen domain.

...You are aware that the Fitness Mastery Shield-Barrier/Armor bonus does NOT affect Shadow Strike, yes?

See the patch notes......it works now.

[mrcanada]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Gamemako wrote...

Immortal Strife wrote...

The bottoms line is that Havok strike is not damaging in it's current form.

The problem is that it isn't up to snuff in its current form. To use Havoc Strike, you have to spec two skills, use a grenade power, and use your cooldown set. That's a whole lot of cost. Meanwhile, Lift Grenades will deal more than twice the damage over nearly three times the radius to many more targets (I believe max targets is 5) and it doesn't hit your cooldown or leave you vulnerable. This is just one arbitrary selection. Havoc Strike requires so much that almost any comparison is fair, and they're never favorable to Havoc Strike.

Again, the problem is people are playing the Havoc like he's a turian vanguard.  He's not.  A lot of people are headscratching as to why he has Cryo Blast when it's obvious.  It's to set off a burst with his Strike.  He's not meant to go jetpacking into a mob and become a bladed dervish of destruction.  (At least not on any difficulty above Bronze).  I realize I sound like a broken record, but the problem is folks want Havoc Strike to stand completely on it's own.  When it's made to work with his moveset.  Stimpack probably makes him one of the most self-sufficent characters outside of the Volus.

Actually, I think that was exactly the intention of the Havoc, the implementation is just not up to snuff. Specing him weapon damage first is like striving for mediocrity. It isn't the intention of the kit and there are better Turians, let alone characters to do this with.

[mrcanada]

adamjmorgan wrote...

What are people even talking about Havoc Strike so much for?! Everyone seems to think that this guy is a Vanguard when he SO CLEARLY isn't. HS is for relocation, and as one person said correctly, for detonating cryoblast. It also serves greatly as an emergency button when you need invulnerability for a second while you charge to dodge space magic or brutes etc.

This character is all about putting out MASSIVE weapon damage w/ Cryo Blast buffs, weapon buffs from HS (only way to go past bronze or silver), and the occasional damage buff from combat drugs.

As some have said, this class is one of the most self sufficient in the game if you put on Warfighter gear or Grenade Gear and play him like an extremely mobile guerrilla fighter.

I have him specc'd 6/6/6/4/4. Could potentially drop the last rank in HS, but I like it for emergencies to give you some breathing room when you land.

Maybe you missed it, but we're talking about the Havoc and his main ability is Havoc Strike. Makes sense that we are talking abou ******. And if you think the main utility of Havoc Strike is relocation, I'm laughing pretty hard. I'm sure the devs gave him an ability that nets him near 5k shields and a strike that brings him close and thought the best implementation would be to run away with it. C'mon.........

[mrcanada]

UB3RD4NG wrote...

So he's a vanilla ranged soldier with a damage steroid that's dependent on grenades that is much inferior to AR, DvM, and MM and can jet around a bit?
Underwhelming because it doesn't bring anything NEW... but I suppose I can deal with that. Hit and run has existed ever since the original human soldier (and I'd argue he's the most effective at it other than a good slayer).

Edit: I don't want to say he sucks, but rather to voice my disappointment that nothing groundbreaking was included in his kit other than giving turians some jets.  I'll be interested in seeing what the rest of the new operatives have to offer, especially since the two Volus, the TGI, and all 6 of the previous N7 characters gave us drastically different playstyles from what was then available.

I'd still like to see Havoc Strike turned into a bomb/strafe move as stated above though.

Using Adrenaline Rush and Claymore, my Human Soldier doesn't run from s**t lol. I know what you're saying though and to everyone that thinks he's designed as a hit and run kit, you're kidding yourself. That may be one of the only ways to be successful at higher difficulties with him, but thinking that was a design choice is a bad joke.

[Zardoc]

http://social.biowar.../index/14439943


/topic

[mrcanada]

Zardoc wrote...

http://social.biowar.../index/14439943


/topic

No it isn't. While I commend the build and utility, it requires full equipment and grenade gear to facilitate it. This is something other characters don't need. If anything, it only outlines the weakness of the kit further by the need to mask them with equipment.

Basically, you can make it work, but others do it better and without the equipment support the Havoc requires.

Modifié par mrcanada, 10 octobre 2012 - 07:21 .