184 réponses à ce sujet

[whateverman7]

OmegaRex wrote...

he's fine.

Sure it looks like biotic charge but that doesn't mean you're supposed to use it like it's biotic charge

basically....and just like biotic charge, just cause you can, doesnt mean you should....

advice: dont charge everything....if you do, make sure you're carrying a close range, heavy hitting weapon....in that case, i'd suggest a shotty

[adamjmorgan]

mrcanada wrote...

adamjmorgan wrote...

What are people even talking about Havoc Strike so much for?! Everyone seems to think that this guy is a Vanguard when he SO CLEARLY isn't. HS is for relocation, and as one person said correctly, for detonating cryoblast. It also serves greatly as an emergency button when you need invulnerability for a second while you charge to dodge space magic or brutes etc.

This character is all about putting out MASSIVE weapon damage w/ Cryo Blast buffs, weapon buffs from HS (only way to go past bronze or silver), and the occasional damage buff from combat drugs.

As some have said, this class is one of the most self sufficient in the game if you put on Warfighter gear or Grenade Gear and play him like an extremely mobile guerrilla fighter.

I have him specc'd 6/6/6/4/4. Could potentially drop the last rank in HS, but I like it for emergencies to give you some breathing room when you land.

Maybe you missed it, but we're talking about the Havoc and his main ability is Havoc Strike. Makes sense that we are talking abou ******. And if you think the main utility of Havoc Strike is relocation, I'm laughing pretty hard. I'm sure the devs gave him an ability that nets him near 5k shields and a strike that brings him close and thought the best implementation would be to run away with it. C'mon.........

Frankly, your attitude sucks.  Aside from being condescending and rude when it's completely unwarranted, if you don't want to look for ways to play the class and be successful while having fun that run counter to how you feel it should be played or implemented, then that's your problem.  

[Maker MEDA]

Definitely some type of damage resistance bonuses on its own, verses having to use stim packs with it.

Too limiting as is.  If it's gonna have to use grenade like consumable, it might as well be uber about it stacking two powers, make more sense that way with its constrains.

They always make characters too weak before they buff it though.  Like what the Kroguard used to be and all that.

Damage resistance is good because it isn't shield, it doesn't replace Stim's effect, and it make this character's charge game mechanic wise different then Biotic Charge is.  Manage differently, and keeping it true to its own characteristic distinctions.

Modifié par Maker MEDA, 10 octobre 2012 - 07:23 .

[Iggister]

If it won't regen shields, then it needs to do more damage. Right now it is copy paste of Biotic Charge except for regen, which brings its usefulness to..... Well nobody charged because the damage was useful.

[mrcanada]

adamjmorgan wrote...

mrcanada wrote...

adamjmorgan wrote...

What are people even talking about Havoc Strike so much for?! Everyone seems to think that this guy is a Vanguard when he SO CLEARLY isn't. HS is for relocation, and as one person said correctly, for detonating cryoblast. It also serves greatly as an emergency button when you need invulnerability for a second while you charge to dodge space magic or brutes etc.

This character is all about putting out MASSIVE weapon damage w/ Cryo Blast buffs, weapon buffs from HS (only way to go past bronze or silver), and the occasional damage buff from combat drugs.

As some have said, this class is one of the most self sufficient in the game if you put on Warfighter gear or Grenade Gear and play him like an extremely mobile guerrilla fighter.

I have him specc'd 6/6/6/4/4. Could potentially drop the last rank in HS, but I like it for emergencies to give you some breathing room when you land.

Maybe you missed it, but we're talking about the Havoc and his main ability is Havoc Strike. Makes sense that we are talking abou ******. And if you think the main utility of Havoc Strike is relocation, I'm laughing pretty hard. I'm sure the devs gave him an ability that nets him near 5k shields and a strike that brings him close and thought the best implementation would be to run away with it. C'mon.........

Frankly, your attitude sucks.  Aside from being condescending and rude when it's completely unwarranted, if you don't want to look for ways to play the class and be successful while having fun that run counter to how you feel it should be played or implemented, then that's your problem.  

I made the topic to have a good discussion and we have the entire time. You don't see me saying he sucks do you? Your matter of fact statement is dismissive of the topic and misleading so I just returned the favor.

[Zardoc]

mrcanada wrote...

Zardoc wrote...

http://social.biowar.../index/14439943


/topic

No it isn't. While I commend the build and utility, it requires full equipment and grenade gear to facilitate it. This is something other characters don't need. If anything, it only outlines the weakness of the kit further by the need to mask them with equipment.

Basically, you can make it work, but others do it better and without the equipment support the Havoc requires.

No, it doesn't. Other than ammo, you need no gear for that build to work. The Grenade Gear is optional, too. Just makes it easier is all.

Modifié par Zardoc, 10 octobre 2012 - 07:25 .

[UB3RD4NG]

Zardoc wrote...

http://social.biowar.../index/14439943


/topic

And I will point to this post in that same thread

TheKillerAngel wrote...

SushiSquid wrote...

Impressive work to get this class to kill so well, but you still did have to expend consumables and equipment. Couldn't just about anyone with a long-range power and incendiary ammo achieve similar results while sitting safely behind cover, though?

My point is you did well due to skill and items. Havoc Strike is still quite weak.

I anticipated this point. I would have done just as well if I used a Krogan Vanguard or N7 Destroyer with the same gear, but the point is that I was able to equal the damage of both of those classes (which are considered top tier). I would primarily argue that the Havoc, like the Sentinel and other classes, has an absurdly high learning curve. He could use some buffs to become more accessible but the class can be used effectively right now.

Stahlhammer wrote...

Question of the day: is Havoc Strike considered a melee like SS? Does it gain only from power damage bonuses or melee ones too?

I'm about to test. I know for certain that it benefits from power damage bonuses.

Edit: I'd also like to disagree that Kroguard is top tier.  He's just big, bulky, and hard to kill.  

Modifié par UB3RD4NG, 10 octobre 2012 - 07:26 .

[mrcanada]

Zardoc wrote...

mrcanada wrote...

Zardoc wrote...

http://social.biowar.../index/14439943


/topic

No it isn't. While I commend the build and utility, it requires full equipment and grenade gear to facilitate it. This is something other characters don't need. If anything, it only outlines the weakness of the kit further by the need to mask them with equipment.

Basically, you can make it work, but others do it better and without the equipment support the Havoc requires.

No, it doesn't. Other than ammo, you need no gear for that build to work. The Grenade Gear is optional, too.

Not if you want to survive longer and not be running to ammo boxes left and right. The Havoc is useable, but he needs some help to play the way the devs have most likely intended it to.

[mrcanada]

UB3RD4NG wrote...

Zardoc wrote...

http://social.biowar.../index/14439943


/topic

And I will point to this post in that same thre

TheKillerAngel wrote...

SushiSquid wrote...

Impressive work to get this class to kill so well, but you still did have to expend consumables and equipment. Couldn't just about anyone with a long-range power and incendiary ammo achieve similar results while sitting safely behind cover, though?

My point is you did well due to skill and items. Havoc Strike is still quite weak.

I anticipated this point. I would have done just as well if I used a Krogan Vanguard or N7 Destroyer with the same gear, but the point is that I was able to equal the damage of both of those classes (which are considered top tier). I would primarily argue that the Havoc, like the Sentinel and other classes, has an absurdly high learning curve. He could use some buffs to become more accessible but the class can be used effectively right now.

Stahlhammer wrote...

Question of the day: is Havoc Strike considered a melee like SS? Does it gain only from power damage bonuses or melee ones too?

I'm about to test. I know for certain that it benefits from power damage bonuses.

Tests have been done, it doesn't act like a melee attack unfortunately.

[Maker MEDA]

Iggister wrote...

If it won't regen shields, then it needs to do more damage. Right now it is copy paste of Biotic Charge except for regen, which brings its usefulness to..... Well nobody charged because the damage was useful.

Yeah, enhance weapon bonus would be nice, that might help people play the character differently then they would a vanguard, right now not much incentive.  Bonus Damage Resist + higher weapon/ melee bonus would work it for me.

Then it become more an offensive base power verse save my life regen my shield power.  Put some worthy tactical play aspect to it.

Even things out to compare as well.

Modifié par Maker MEDA, 10 octobre 2012 - 07:30 .

[Zardoc]

mrcanada wrote...

Zardoc wrote...

mrcanada wrote...

Zardoc wrote...

http://social.biowar.../index/14439943


/topic

No it isn't. While I commend the build and utility, it requires full equipment and grenade gear to facilitate it. This is something other characters don't need. If anything, it only outlines the weakness of the kit further by the need to mask them with equipment.

Basically, you can make it work, but others do it better and without the equipment support the Havoc requires.

No, it doesn't. Other than ammo, you need no gear for that build to work. The Grenade Gear is optional, too.

Not if you want to survive longer and not be running to ammo boxes left and right. The Havoc is useable, but he needs some help to play the way the devs have most likely intended it to.

I'm not arguing the Havoc doesn't need a bit of help, but he's far from being as bad as some people try to make him look like.

[mrcanada]

Zardoc wrote...

mrcanada wrote...

Zardoc wrote...

mrcanada wrote...

Zardoc wrote...

http://social.biowar.../index/14439943


/topic

No it isn't. While I commend the build and utility, it requires full equipment and grenade gear to facilitate it. This is something other characters don't need. If anything, it only outlines the weakness of the kit further by the need to mask them with equipment.

Basically, you can make it work, but others do it better and without the equipment support the Havoc requires.

No, it doesn't. Other than ammo, you need no gear for that build to work. The Grenade Gear is optional, too.

Not if you want to survive longer and not be running to ammo boxes left and right. The Havoc is useable, but he needs some help to play the way the devs have most likely intended it to.

I'm not arguing the Havoc doesn't need a bit of help, but he's far from being as bad as some people try to make him look like.

Agreed.

[mrcanada]

Maker MEDA wrote...

Iggister wrote...

If it won't regen shields, then it needs to do more damage. Right now it is copy paste of Biotic Charge except for regen, which brings its usefulness to..... Well nobody charged because the damage was useful.

Yeah, enhance weapon bonus would be nice, that might help people play the character differently then they would a vanguard, right now not much incentive.  Bonus Damage Resist + higher weapon/ melee bonus would work it for me.

Then it become more a offensive base power verse save my life regen my shield power.

The weapon synergy bonus is there to take at EVO 5.

[Gamemako]

adamjmorgan wrote...

Frankly, your attitude sucks.

Don't say something stupid and then expect everyone to coddle you.

Zardoc wrote...

No, it doesn't. Other than ammo, you need no gear for that build to work. The Grenade Gear is optional, too. Just makes it easier is all.

I find that to be utterly false. Cryo is useless, so you're stuck with stims and HS. If you're caught in combat for more than 18 seconds, you need the grenade gear to survive. If you're not using HS, you're literally a Turian with no skills whatsoever standing in one place and shooting things.

UB3RD4NG wrote...

Edit: I'd also like to disagree that Kroguard is top tier. He's just big, bulky, and hard to kill.

Hard enough to kill that he becomes high-tier. He has over 6000 effective barrier with no Cyclonic Modulator needed and refills this barrier every 4 seconds. A melee-spec Havoc has only 7900 post-charge and has to use stims to refill. Cyclonics included (shield gear for Kroguard, grenade gear for Havoc), a Havoc has no more than 10179.2 effective barrier compared to a Kroguard's 11230.77. The Kroguard refills his barrier every Charge while the Havoc has to stop and pop a stim every 9 seconds -- or every 4 to keep on par with the Kroguard's insane durability. At one every 4 seconds, the Havoc can keep up with the Kroguard for 32 seconds.

So where's the damage output that makes the tradeoff worthwhile?

Zardoc wrote...

I'm not arguing the Havoc doesn't need a bit of help, but he's far from being as bad as some people try to make him look like.

Compared to others, the Havoc is a low-tier character. I don't think he will ever be high-tier due to his mechanics. However, one can hope that he'd at least level with some of the not-so-great Vanguards on which he is clearly based.

[SushiSquid]

Zardoc wrote...

I'm not arguing the Havoc doesn't need a bit of help, but he's far from being as bad as some people try to make him look like.

True. He's not a Drell Vanguard or anything. However, he is really close, which is only made worse because he got released at the same time as Ghost, a class that's incredibly good.

[mrcanada]

Que people coming in to tell you the Drellguad is an incredibly designed kit.....

[kipac]

Do you take damage in the middle of charging?

[DHKany]

mrcanada wrote...

Que people coming in to tell you the Drellguad is an incredibly designed kit.....

Are you derailing your own thread?

[MrScottBear]

Been working well with him since launch. I've played quite a few games with him, so I think I know what I'm talking about...

Acolyte shot (if the enemy has shields), Cryo blast, Havoc, Heavy Melee. On Gold that's usually enough to flat out kill a mook (or a grouping of them) if you've gone melee build. I've been doing well enough, usually getting 100K+ on gold, not dying too much (unless I get too cocky). The only thing that I'm wary of with this guy is Brutes and Banshees due to their synch Kills. Phantoms are takens out in one combo, and Atlas are predictable. The wind up makes you invulnerable, you get 50% DR for a few seconds after Havoc, and having, essentially, 35 survival ops packs makes him incredibly tanky.

Now, all that said, yes. I do think Havoc could use something. I'm not certain of what. I'd, of course, love a Shield restore added into his tree somewhere. Maybe a Damage Multiplier? (Unless it already has a Natural one..)

[mrcanada]

DHKany wrote...

mrcanada wrote...

Que people coming in to tell you the Drellguad is an incredibly designed kit.....

Are you derailing your own thread?

I hope not and yes, I've taken damage while charging unless I'm seeing things or it's lag, you are not immune.

Modifié par mrcanada, 11 octobre 2012 - 01:57 .

[heybigmoney]

Looks like the most effective build so far is just a poor man's kroguard with the reegar.

Yeah they need to buff the dmg or synergy evos.

[SushiSquid]

mrcanada wrote...

Que people coming in to tell you the Drellguad is an incredibly designed kit.....

Yeah probably. People seem to confuse "viable" with "good" on this board. Drell Vanguard (and Havoc) are both totally playable. That doesn't mean they aren't weaker than every other class and you couldn't have done better with something else. There's still a problem there that needs to be addressed.

[Kogia]

For a start the class should have been a Vanguard, I said in some earlier posts it would be good to have Vanguards that didn't all use Biotic Charge and now we have one, but they decided to make him a Soldier?? He would have added some needed variation to the Vanguard group.

That aside, as it isn't BC, it needs to be different, so they shouldn't add in shield recharge, it would have been good if you could fire as you fly, that may not be the improvment needed, but it would add to it feeling different. Also, I haven't been able to, but can you use it to fly to a spot without targeting an enemy? That would make it more tactically useful.

[SushiSquid]

Kogia wrote...

That aside, as it isn't BC, it needs to be different, so they shouldn't add in shield recharge, it would have been good if you could fire as you fly, that may not be the improvment needed, but it would add to it feeling different. Also, I haven't been able to, but can you use it to fly to a spot without targeting an enemy? That would make it more tactically useful.

I totally thought it would let you do this when I read the description before playing the class. Just from looking at it it seemed like a weakened Charge, so I figured for sure it must have some cool benefit.

No. No, it didn't. My dreams were crushed.

[B.Shep]

Just don't use the Havoc Strike against a group of enemies, it may be similar but this isn't Biotic Charge.
On gold try to use it against one or two enemies and use the Stimulant Pack to gain shield and damage bonus. That will help you kill your adversaries or in finding cover using your jets.

Do that and you will amplify your ability to survive without losing a offensive strategy.

Kogia wrote...

That aside, as it isn't BC, it
needs to be different, so they shouldn't add in shield recharge, it
would have been good if you could fire as you fly, that may not be the
improvment needed, but it would add to it feeling different. Also, I
haven't been able to, but can you use it to fly to a spot without
targeting an enemy? That would make it more tactically useful.

No you can't do that but it really isn't a big problem considering you can leap/hover about 10 meters each time you do a dodge move.

Modifié par B.Shep, 11 octobre 2012 - 07:49 .