238 réponses à ce sujet

[Ledgend1221]

bolt460 wrote...

Gamemako wrote...

bolt460 wrote...

Try it before getting too upset. I recently tried using a phaeston with both the ap & hv mods on gold just to experiment; the thing rips through armor. Apply to a turian ghost and the potential of it starts to shine through.

You do realize that that Phaeston is not a good gun at all, right?

The AR HVB is like the SMG HVB, except that the SMG one doesn't add weight. Both have the drawback of preventing you from using your normal damage barrel. That is enough of a drawback already, but on top of that, it out and doubles your cooldown penalty or worse. I'd be lying if I said I could imagine why.

That's exactly my point.  Even a gun that's less than stellar was doing a lot of damage against armored enemies.  If you were to take these mods and apply them to something like the harrier, the damage would be even greater.

But the EB and AP combo has a much greater versatiltiy then the HVB + AP combo.
You only increase your damage against armoured untis and lose damage against everthing else.

[Gamemako]

SOG TOUGH wrote...

It can be used on any assault rifle.

Doing so lowers your damage output against non-armor by 25% additive because it takes up the barrel slot. On the Falcon, Strike, Saber, and Argus, there is no reason to ever take this mod because it does nothing or is less valuable than the normal barrel in all cases. With the Harrier and Mattock, the difference between the two is very small -- 12.5 per hit, which is a max of less than 10% compared to the max bonus against everything else of 25%. That leaves the Avenger, Phaeston, Vindicator, GPR, Rev, CAR, and PPR. Of these, the Avenger, Phaeston, Vindicator, GPR, and CAR shouldn't be used at all because they suck chocolate salty balls. That leaves you with the ever-underwhelming Rev and the PPR. Even if it didn't cost you weight, it's meaningless on every other weapon. The weight penalty is just rotten icing on the excrement cake.

The only place you could justify using it is where you're using a Harrier or PPR with Incendiary Ammo for the fire explosions, but then it up and slows down your explosion rate, making it a devil's bargain there as well.

bolt460 wrote...

That's exactly my point. Even a gun that's less than stellar was doing a lot of damage against armored enemies. If you were to take these mods and apply them to something like the harrier, the damage would be even greater.

That's not how the system works at all. The HVB doesn't give a damage bonus at all, it just reduces the armor penalty. For the awful rapid-fire guns, their damage is very low per hit and is reduced by a proportionally-huge amount. However, even removing the penalty entirely results in a ceiling of the equal damage as is done to health and shields. That's why those guns will always be useless -- they still have poor damage against health and shields. However, when you look at something like the Harrier, the maximum damage reduction is 38.6% of the damage, and realistically much lower than that (for example, a total additive bonus of 60% would make the DPS difference sans any armor reduction at all a modest 24.1%). That is why you can directly compare using the normal, zero-weight EB to using the HVB and find the bonus for using the HVB against one type is less than the penalty against the 3 other types, making it a bad choice over the EB independent of any weight added by the HVB at all.

//EDIT: The AR HVB needs the weight penalty completely removed, and even then it's of dubious value except on the guns that are in desperate need of buffs already.

Modifié par Gamemako, 18 octobre 2012 - 10:58 .

[Seargent_Braken]

I'd rather they just make it work like the SR and Shotgun HVBs, and make it also increase damage.

[Omnifarious Nef]

Gamemako wrote...

SOG TOUGH wrote...

It can be used on any assault rifle.

Doing so lowers your damage output against non-armor by 25% additive because it takes up the barrel slot. On the Falcon, Strike, Saber, and Argus, there is no reason to ever take this mod because it does nothing or is less valuable than the normal barrel in all cases. With the Harrier and Mattock, the difference between the two is very small -- 12.5 per hit, which is a max of less than 10% compared to the max bonus against everything else of 25%. That leaves the Avenger, Phaeston, Vindicator, GPR, Rev, CAR, and PPR. Of these, the Avenger, Phaeston, Vindicator, GPR, and CAR shouldn't be used at all because they suck chocolate salty balls. That leaves you with the ever-underwhelming Rev and the PPR. Even if it didn't cost you weight, it's meaningless on every other weapon. The weight penalty is just rotten icing on the excrement cake.

The only place you could justify using it is where you're using a Harrier or PPR with Incendiary Ammo for the fire explosions, but then it up and slows down your explosion rate, making it a devil's bargain there as well.

bolt460 wrote...

That's exactly my point. Even a gun that's less than stellar was doing a lot of damage against armored enemies. If you were to take these mods and apply them to something like the harrier, the damage would be even greater.

That's not how the system works at all. The HVB doesn't give a damage bonus at all, it just reduces the armor penalty. For the awful rapid-fire guns, their damage is very low per hit and is reduced by a proportionally-huge amount. However, even removing the penalty entirely results in a ceiling of the equal damage as is done to health and shields. That's why those guns will always be useless -- they still have poor damage against health and shields. However, when you look at something like the Harrier, the maximum damage reduction is 38.6% of the damage, and realistically much lower than that (for example, a total additive bonus of 60% would make the DPS difference sans any armor reduction at all a modest 24.1%). That is why you can directly compare using the normal, zero-weight EB to using the HVB and find the bonus for using the HVB against one type is less than the penalty against the 3 other types, making it a bad choice over the EB independent of any weight added by the HVB at all.

//EDIT: The AR HVB needs the weight penalty completely removed, and even then it's of dubious value except on the guns that are in desperate need of buffs already.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Od3at]

Quite good on my TGI's PPR!

[Sable Dove]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Valiari wrote...

Does mounting both new and old AP mods together completely negate the armor penalty?

The bonuses do stack, yes.

How exactly do they stack? 

Armor negation adds, but I would assume it's capped at 100%, so no bonus damage to armor.

I would also guess that penetration simply adds.

But what about the damage reduction when shooting through cover? Does that add, or is it averaged, or does it go with the worse reduction?

[Guglio08]

Gamemako wrote...

[Stuff]

I believe that this post should be followed by:

/Thread

[bolt460]

It's an option, that's all. It offers the opportunity to turn one gun into an anti-armor beast. It's hardly useless. Merely niche. How people view it beyond that point is really up to them.

I've never quite understood why people get worked up over the idea that not every facet of a video game works like every other. What's so wrong about having two separate mods behave differently from the other?

Modifié par bolt460, 18 octobre 2012 - 11:32 .

[K9lArthur]

I think the penalty of not being able to put on EB is enough, so either the weight penalty should be removed like the SMG barrel, or get the extra damage bonus like the other barrels.

[Sgt Reed 24]

Hmm, I wouldn't know because I never get anything useful out of the packs! They are way too random...

I use mainly rifles and I only have the level 1 damage mod, BUT DON'T WORRY, I HAVE EVERY SHOTGUN RAIL AMP THERE IS AND MULTIPLE OF THEM! Woo!

=/

Modifié par Sgt Reed 24, 24 octobre 2012 - 02:40 .

[Digitalis32]

I never bothered with the Barrel mods - AP and clip mods have always been more important to me, what is the point of increasing weight and amour damage if you are going to run out of bullets sooner? I think the added benefit of having more ammo completely offsets any bonuses given by barrel mods. High Burst DPS is nice, but having high Sustained DPS is more important especially in Platinum games.

Modifié par Digitalis32, 24 octobre 2012 - 02:56 .

[Grunt_Platform]

bolt460 wrote...

It's an option, that's all. It offers the opportunity to turn one gun into an anti-armor beast. It's hardly useless. Merely niche. How people view it beyond that point is really up to them.

I've never quite understood why people get worked up over the idea that not every facet of a video game works like every other. What's so wrong about having two separate mods behave differently from the other?

Try actually reading what Gamemake said.

The HVB doesn't turn any gun into an anti-armor beast. It does not boost damage. It does not do anything that the existing AP mod doesn't do. It already behaves exactly like two other mods, but worse in almost every respect, on just about every kit. What we want is for the damn thing to be good at what it does.. And a huge part of this is that the only guns it's "good" for are horribly underpowered to begin with. The way it currently works is broken.

Many of the underpowered Assault Rifles, like the Phaeston, would have appreciated a Damage + Penetration mod, since their DPS against health and shields is so bad they need extended barrel, and their damage against armor is so bad they need an AP mod. Instead we get a worse version of the SMG High-Velocity Barrel. And that mod is good because most SMGs have pretty good damage for their weight, except against armor (and it doesn't increase their weight).

Modifié par EvanKester, 24 octobre 2012 - 03:10 .

[JaimasOfRaxis]

It's useful on one gun:

The Particle Rifle.

And only for classes with no weight limits to consider whatsoever.

So the Destroyer.

Yeah, this really is totally a worthwhile upgrade. I can totally see the entire playerbase ignoring bog-standard upgrades in favor of it, cutting their cooldowns by part of the bargain. I'm so glad that this rare weapon mod is markedly a downgrade from existing common and uncommon weapon mods.

Modifié par JaimasOfRaxis, 24 octobre 2012 - 03:15 .