238 réponses à ce sujet

[JaimasOfRaxis]

FACT: A massive weight increase and loss of high-caliber barrel does not, for the majority of rifles, equate some additional armor-penetration. To writ:

A Level X Argus, by default, does 206 per bullet. With a maxed-out Piercing Mod and Extended Barrel, it does 257.5 a shot, with no character class damage mods, and knocks off 225 a shot.

That same level X Argus does 201 a shot with a maxed-out High Velocity Barrel, which precludes the use of Extended Barrel.

You can carry out similar tests across-the-board, and the end result is that only relatlvely low-damage, high-fire rate weapons gain a significant benefit - the Avenger, Vindicator, N7 Typhoon, and Particle Rifle - see any real benefit, and the sheer weight added functionally guarantees that these mods can only be placed on these weapons on cooldown-immune classes - so more love for the N7 Destroyer, in other words, whereas the overpowering majority of the weapon list sees no tangible benefit over Piercing Mod and Extended.

[N7 Whiskey]

Guys, this mod isn't for the same old weapons you've been using. Its for the old weapons you've been avoiding, the low damage high RoF ARs that are negated by armor. Phaeston + HVB + Extended Mag = lighter version of Typhoon without the ramp up time.

[vlight]

I use piercing mod and extended mag for Harrier regularly, so this HVB mod should be useful when i get it to V.

[Mendelevosa]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

JC_aka_fps_john wrote...

DarkSpooky wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

The Assault Rifle High-Velocity Barrel was never intended to increase weapon damage. We intended for it to be a heavier version of the existing penetration mod, so you get higher penetration for some extra weight. In hindsight, we should have called it something other than High-Velocity Barrel, as this seems to be leading to some confusion. We are looking into the possibility of renaming it.

WHAT?

I could have sworn that the HVBs were supposed to not only increase damage BUT add penetration as well. If that is the case, considering the sheer BS weight added on by using the HVB, I really doubt ANYONE will use it if they are not playing a niche role/kit; IE the GI with penetrating Javelin.

Wow, what a ****ing let down. Huh there is no RAGEEE emote.

The HVBs for the shotgun and the sniper rifle do add damage as well. The assault rifle one does not, which is what I really don't understand.

That's true, but the other weapons don't get as much penetration. The AR mod caps out at 90%, while the others cap out at 65%. This is not an insignificant amount. For example, just crunching some numbers here quickly, the damage done by a single clip from the Revenant on an armored target can increase by up to 20% when going from 65% to 90% penetration, depending on what bonuses you have on.

What I don't understand is why would anyone pick a heavy barrel, which adds penetration and does extra damage only to armor, over the extended barrel that increases over damage to make the weapon deal more damage to health, shields, armor, and barriers? If one combined the Extended Barrel and the uncommon AP mod, the weapon can deal out more damage to any enemy in the game. Armored targets are not the only threat in the game.

With this in mind, it doesn't seem likely that people would choose the HVB over the EB + AP mod combination.

[Sihmm]

There are lots of abilities and ammo mods which reduce the damage reduction of armor. I don't understand why I'd want to take a mod that makes my gun significantly heavier and makes it do less damage against anything that isn't armor when I can already put, say, Warp Ammo and a regular piercing mod on it? Am I missing something?

[superligerzero]

These are all good things you mention here Eric.

[Trogdorx]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Granted, these mods aren't for every kit. The kits that care a lot about power recharge speed will probably have a hard time finding a use for them.

I don't think any kit is going to find a use for them for several reasons..
1) power heavy classes aren't going to want the cooldown penalty.
2) classes that don't care about power cooldown are just going to take a second weapon (shotgun/smg w/HVB, Black Widow) to deal with armored units, and use their AR for unarmored ones.
3) Taking AR HVB means you're not taking something else, like scope/stability, which means that while you're going to do more damage, you're also going to miss more, either because of wider spread or more recoil. I don't think that's an acceptable trade at the medium to long ranges at which an AR is effective. Anything closer and you're just going to want a shotgun.
4) Which you're probably going to want anyway, considering how so often long-range weapons are largely useless now. The enemy either spawns right next to you on objective waves, or is able to close the distance due to high speed, or the maps themselves are inhospitable to long-range combat. The few instances where you are able to engage at long range, the enemy is suppressing you with ravager/atlas/nemesis/prime/rocket fire while other units close in.

The MP game has really turned into a Benny Hill match where you're mostly running around the map in circles kiting the enemy, using rooms/walls to hopefully spread the enemy into smaller, more manageable chunks. Which is a far cry from the singleplayer, where you're advancing and using cover.

[Doctor Proctor]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

JC_aka_fps_john wrote...

DarkSpooky wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

The Assault Rifle High-Velocity Barrel was never intended to increase weapon damage. We intended for it to be a heavier version of the existing penetration mod, so you get higher penetration for some extra weight. In hindsight, we should have called it something other than High-Velocity Barrel, as this seems to be leading to some confusion. We are looking into the possibility of renaming it.

WHAT?

I could have sworn that the HVBs were supposed to not only increase damage BUT add penetration as well. If that is the case, considering the sheer BS weight added on by using the HVB, I really doubt ANYONE will use it if they are not playing a niche role/kit; IE the GI with penetrating Javelin.

Wow, what a ****ing let down. Huh there is no RAGEEE emote.

The HVBs for the shotgun and the sniper rifle do add damage as well. The assault rifle one does not, which is what I really don't understand.

That's true, but the other weapons don't get as much penetration. The AR mod caps out at 90%, while the others cap out at 65%. This is not an insignificant amount. For example, just crunching some numbers here quickly, the damage done by a single clip from the Revenant on an armored target can increase by up to 20% when going from 65% to 90% penetration, depending on what bonuses you have on.

Yes, and it can go up by 25% just by equipping an Extended Barrel.  This 25% also applies to -non-armored targets, making it superior to the HVB.  This is why the new mod doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.  With many of the AR's, the 25% boost of EB alone does almost the same to your single shot damage as completely ignoring armor in the first place!

I mean, sure this is a great way to make something like an Avenger or a Vindicator more viable I guess, but then we run into the secondary problem.  The added weight will make it as heavy as one of the "better" guns with the higher base DPS that will benefit more from EB than HVB.  So if you were trying to go for the best bang for the least weight, you're still not gonna use that Avenger or Vindicator (at least not with this mod). 

Secondly, the new HVB is rare gear, which means you'll likely unlock a better weapon for overall use long before you unlock all 5 ranks of HVB.  And you STILL have the problem of those weapons base damage levels against non-armored targets being eclipsed by the "better" weapons.  So if weight isn't a concern, you'll just use the level I version of some Gold weapon you unlocked that does more damage with an EB than HVB can do.  Escpecially since EB is an Uncommon mod, and will theoretically be unlocked sooner than HVB.

The solution just isn't fitting the problem here.  

[upinya slayin]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

The Assault Rifle High-Velocity Barrel was never intended to increase weapon damage. We intended for it to be a heavier version of the existing penetration mod, so you get higher penetration for some extra weight. In hindsight, we should have called it something other than High-Velocity Barrel, as this seems to be leading to some confusion. We are looking into the possibility of renaming it.

but at the comicon event it was suable and did do damage and AP? did you guys consider it to be OP so took out the damage? I'd understand why if you did. i'm just curious

[Bleachrude]

I would say ANY AR that uses the extended mag + piercing mods will use this.

Any AR that is high rate of fire put low damage will use this....



Hmm...weirdly, I think there's more AR that benefit from this than not...

Avenger, Vindicator, Phaeston, GPR -- al 4 of these are light enough that even with the increased weight, you're still nowhere near the weight of AR like the saber but all 3 have very low damager per shot that makes them useless against armour at gold+

Collector, Typhoon, Harrier and Prothean rifles - Given that the standard loadout is ext mag + AP mod, yeah I can see going for the weight increase to use these rifles...

[Adragalus]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

The Assault Rifle High-Velocity Barrel was never intended to increase weapon damage. We intended for it to be a heavier version of the existing penetration mod, so you get higher penetration for some extra weight. In hindsight, we should have called it something other than High-Velocity Barrel, as this seems to be leading to some confusion. We are looking into the possibility of renaming it.

+50 weight for some measly centimeters more penetration and a bit more anti-armor effectivity?


You're kidding, right?

[vlight]

BuckshotSamurai wrote...

Guys, this mod isn't for the same old weapons you've been using. Its for the old weapons you've been avoiding, the low damage high RoF ARs that are negated by armor. Phaeston + HVB + Extended Mag = lighter version of Typhoon without the ramp up time.

Bleachrude wrote...

I would say ANY AR that uses the extended mag + piercing mods will use this.

Any AR that is high rate of fire put low damage will use this....



Hmm...weirdly, I think there's more AR that benefit from this than not...

Avenger, Vindicator, Phaeston, GPR -- al 4 of these are light enough that even with the increased weight, you're still nowhere near the weight of AR like the saber but all 3 have very low damager per shot that makes them useless against armour at gold+

Collector, Typhoon, Harrier and Prothean rifles - Given that the standard loadout is ext mag + AP mod, yeah I can see going for the weight increase to use these rifles...

This.

Modifié par vlight, 10 octobre 2012 - 05:41 .

[StarStruck010]

50 * .65 = 37.5 damage to armor. 50 * .90 = 45 more damage to armor. 45-37.5 = 7.5. So hvb is only good where 7.5 damage per bullet, and the other mod used is better than 25% base damage and 50% weight increase. I think my vorcha grenadier and destroyer are the only ones that will touch it (weight doesn't matter and they use em+ap now).

[78stonewobble]

Arf nevermind ... I was thinking of the extended barrell. Haven't gotten the other one yet

[NuclearTech76]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

The Assault Rifle High-Velocity Barrel was never intended to increase weapon damage. We intended for it to be a heavier version of the existing penetration mod, so you get higher penetration for some extra weight. In hindsight, we should have called it something other than High-Velocity Barrel, as this seems to be leading to some confusion. We are looking into the possibility of renaming it.

You can't equip the damage barrel with it. Why not allow you to equip the damage barrel with it if you're going to make where it just increase pentration? Useless mod because of the added weight and loss of damage

[TheKillerAngel]

Particle Rifle + Destroyer? Yesplz

[JSLfromBx]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

JC_aka_fps_john wrote...

DarkSpooky wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

The Assault Rifle High-Velocity Barrel was never intended to increase weapon damage. We intended for it to be a heavier version of the existing penetration mod, so you get higher penetration for some extra weight. In hindsight, we should have called it something other than High-Velocity Barrel, as this seems to be leading to some confusion. We are looking into the possibility of renaming it.

WHAT?

I could have sworn that the HVBs were supposed to not only increase damage BUT add penetration as well. If that is the case, considering the sheer BS weight added on by using the HVB, I really doubt ANYONE will use it if they are not playing a niche role/kit; IE the GI with penetrating Javelin.

Wow, what a ****ing let down. Huh there is no RAGEEE emote.

The HVBs for the shotgun and the sniper rifle do add damage as well. The assault rifle one does not, which is what I really don't understand.

That's true, but the other weapons don't get as much penetration. The AR mod caps out at 90%, while the others cap out at 65%. This is not an insignificant amount. For example, just crunching some numbers here quickly, the damage done by a single clip from the Revenant on an armored target can increase by up to 20% when going from 65% to 90% penetration, depending on what bonuses you have on.

I think the probleme is that you compare the light AP mod with the heavy AP mod in a straight up one on one figth and find them balanced with their advantage and disadvantages, but people don't do that. They judge the heavy AP mod as part of their whole" gear" built and the fact is most of the ammo consumable increase effectiveness versus armor: AP ammo, Cold ammo, Warp ammo, Drill ammo....

People aren't asking you: what is the point betwen 65% armor penetration and 90% armor penetration.

People are asking you : Why should I suffer a 50% weight increase when something as dirt cheap as a rank 1 cryo ammo can already put my 65% lightweight AP mod into near 100% effectiveness?

[ClockworkSpectre]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

+50 weight for some measly centimeters more penetration and a bit more anti-armor effectivity?

You're kidding, right?

You're kidding me can be said about a lot of what BioWare is doing right now.

The amount of weight added, for most kits the added armor reduction would help with(power users), makes it pointless.

The old armor piercing mod + AP ammo negates the need for this new mod.

Also, speaking of new mods, that pistol heavy barrel, who the hell designed that thing, UGLY.  Also, same problem, the weight trade off makes it kind of useless.

[BlackbirdSR-71C]

Y'know, I really liked the idea of the HVB adding Armor Penetration and Weapond damage at the cost of weight. This way you could, say, put it on an Avenger and bring it up to speed in terms of damage to a heavier rifle, along with its' weight.

[Cyonan]

The main issue I see with this mod is that it knocks the gun up into the next weight class for not a lot of return.

The first weapon I would think to put this on is the GPR which has major issues with armoured targets. At 1.0 weight on my GPR though, my Phaeston, Vindicator, and especially Mattock all feel like they still outperform my GPR and now they weigh less as well. Same goes for my Avenger.

If I throw it on a heavier weapon like my Harrier, then it gets bumped up into a weight range that makes my casters feel rather uncomfortable with the idea, and my weapons users can typically boost weapon damage to the point where armour is a non issue with just an Extended Barrel.

The only kits I see myself considering this mod is grenadiers who don't care about weight, but who also don't boost weapon damage.

[GGW KillerTiger]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

The Assault Rifle High-Velocity Barrel was never intended to increase weapon damage. We intended for it to be a heavier version of the existing penetration mod, so you get higher penetration for some extra weight. In hindsight, we should have called it something other than High-Velocity Barrel, as this seems to be leading to some confusion. We are looking into the possibility of renaming it.

+50 weight for some measly centimeters more penetration and a bit more anti-armor effectivity?


You're kidding, right?

Don't underestimate the benefits of armor reduction. On Gold/Platinum and even on Silver, the DPS of fast-firing assault rifles on armored targets can literally double (or more!) going from 0% to 90% penetration.

Still seems useless to me

[SOMETHING_FOR_NOTHING]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Granted, these mods aren't for every kit. The kits that care a lot about power recharge speed will probably have a hard time finding a use for them.

so ahhh the % reduction from the piercing mod and HV barrels do they stack additively?

[RileyCraven]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Granted, these mods aren't for every kit. The kits that care a lot about power recharge speed will probably have a hard time finding a use for them.

I would trade more raw damage for penetration any day. OMNI Damage > More Piercing. This is especially true of weapons like the saber. Also there are exactly HOW many fast firing ARs... oh right... Typhon already has built in pierce, and then there is the Harrier... I supposed I could also lump the collector and particle rifle in there... Almost all of which require very specific classes to use them effectively already. Shoe horning mods for already shoe horned weapons is getting a bit silly.

Modifié par RileyCraven, 10 octobre 2012 - 05:51 .