238 réponses à ce sujet

[xBotharix]

EvanKester wrote...

EDIT: OK, the formatting is driving me crazy.

HEH... save as space delimited prn file from excel and then paste in code block.

[Grunt_Platform]

xBotharix wrote...

EvanKester wrote...

EDIT: OK, the formatting is driving me crazy.

HEH... save as space delimited prn file from excel and then paste in code block.

Thanks, I'll have to try that next time.

I think it's kinda sad how.. looking at both blocks of numbers, even the weapon that benefits the most from it, on the class that benefits the most from it, the AR HVB is kind of garbage 

Modifié par EvanKester, 10 octobre 2012 - 08:48 .

[The Makr]

This mod has very few uses as currently presented. We need more than a rename here.

[Trogdorx]

Doctor Proctor wrote...

Trogdorx wrote...

Again I must ask. If you're going to use an AR without scope/stability mods and gear, and therefore aren't going to engage at long range with it, why not just take a shotgun? The damage bonus from EB/piercing isn't enough to make it out-perform a shotgun at close range, esp. the piranha, and the lower burst damage means you're spending more time exposed to the enemy, rather than evading while reloading. So to me, that means ARs are best used at medium to long range, which means you need mods that keep your AR from fighting you.

Unless you guys are magically able to connect with every bullet at long range despite wide spread and muzzle climb. In which case I apparently must remove my hat in recognition of your skill.

But assuming that's not the case, the damage boost from any barrel/piercing mod would have to be significantly higher to make it worth having bullets miss at those ranges, or to make it as effective as a shotgun at close range.

Off the top of my head, here's some examples of why someone might do just such a thing...

1) Stability Gear increases accuracy
2) Stability Equipment increases accuracy
3) Marksman increases accuracy
4) Devastator Mode increases accuracy
5) Some classes, I think the Turians, get big damage buffs to ARs, but not Shotguns
6) Someone might be using a Crusader (highly accurate non-pellet based) or Geth Shotgun (ditto) and needs the AR for engaging amored targets at short to medium range

Well, yeah. But it would seem you would want to spec your AR based on either short or long range. If you're going to spec for long range, you're going to forego damage for accuracy and stability whenever possible, which seems to be what ARs are good at: taking out as many mooks as possible at long range, while penalizing you less for missing than a sniper rifle. It can also be used at short range in a pinch, whereas with a sniper you're kind of boned if something sneaks up on you.

If you spec your AR for short range, you're going to stand there, exposed to enemy fire while you empty your large-magazine gun. In your latter example, it seems to me like the Crusader or GPS would be more effective at short range than a damage-specced AR, if for no other reason than you can empty its small magazine quickly and then take cover. So ignoring special cases, in general I think you're better off speccing your AR for long range and then taking a shotgun for short range and bosses, since they're naturally suited for close range combat anyway and suffer less from armor DR.

And therefore I reiterate that the damage bonus from this barrel mod would have to be substantial to make it worth using as a close range weapon. (Or an only weapon, for a power-class)

Modifié par Trogdorx, 10 octobre 2012 - 09:47 .

[Drummernate]

Rename it "The Penetrator..."

I dare you.

[Uchimura]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

JC_aka_fps_john wrote...

DarkSpooky wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

The Assault Rifle High-Velocity Barrel was never intended to increase weapon damage. We intended for it to be a heavier version of the existing penetration mod, so you get higher penetration for some extra weight. In hindsight, we should have called it something other than High-Velocity Barrel, as this seems to be leading to some confusion. We are looking into the possibility of renaming it.

WHAT?

I could have sworn that the HVBs were supposed to not only increase damage BUT add penetration as well. If that is the case, considering the sheer BS weight added on by using the HVB, I really doubt ANYONE will use it if they are not playing a niche role/kit; IE the GI with penetrating Javelin.

Wow, what a ****ing let down. Huh there is no RAGEEE emote.

The HVBs for the shotgun and the sniper rifle do add damage as well. The assault rifle one does not, which is what I really don't understand.

That's true, but the other weapons don't get as much penetration. The AR mod caps out at 90%, while the others cap out at 65%. This is not an insignificant amount. For example, just crunching some numbers here quickly, the damage done by a single clip from the Revenant on an armored target can increase by up to 20% when going from 65% to 90% penetration, depending on what bonuses you have on.

The SMG HVB does the same, but adds no weight. It's a fair trade-off for the regular EB. Either the weight should be removed from the AR HVB or it should be given a 10%-15% damage buff. The AR weapon class has very weak options when you consider that accuracy and recoil need to be compensated for in addition to low bullet damage.

[Rifneno]

Drummernate wrote...

Rename it "The Penetrator..."

I dare you.

[Seargent_Braken]

Seriously, the AR HVB is insanely underwhelming. It needs to be like the SR and Shotgun HVBs to be useful at all...

[Cake Tasty]

Compared to AP mod
It adds a bit more armour piercing and penetration

It adds 50% weight
It prevents you from using Extended Barrel

I will have a hard time justifying the use of this mod

[slescens]

I remember a few complaints way back in the beginning that opening up every weapon class to every character class marginalized the benefits of playing a soldier vs. a power class.

Now that only heavy shock troop soldier types can get the most benefit out of a new Assault Rifle mod, we are complaining that the weight is too much to handle... interesting. Very interesting.

[ASSUMINGDIRECTC0NTR0L]

My Particle Rifle wielding Destroyer disagrees.

[Grunt_Platform]

There's a few ways it could be worth it:

- If it had no, or a really low weight penalty.
- If it was a Damage & Penetration barrel
- If the fast-firing ARs had extremely good DPS for their weight against everything but armor, due to a balance of damage and ROF.
- If it provided some additional, non-damage benefit.

Not one of these is currently true, sadly.

slescens wrote...

I remember a few complaints way back in the beginning that opening up every weapon class to every character class marginalized the benefits of playing a soldier vs. a power class.

Now that only heavy shock troop soldier types can get the most benefit out of a new Assault Rifle mod, we are complaining that the weight is too much to handle... interesting. Very interesting.

Not the point at all. A Geth Pulse Rifle with an HVB has a weight of 1.0. If you'll look back just one page, you'll see the math detailing the problem here.

Modifié par EvanKester, 11 octobre 2012 - 12:55 .

[Seargent_Braken]

slescens wrote...

I remember a few complaints way back in the beginning that opening up every weapon class to every character class marginalized the benefits of playing a soldier vs. a power class.

Now that only heavy shock troop soldier types can get the most benefit out of a new Assault Rifle mod, we are complaining that the weight is too much to handle... interesting. Very interesting.

That's not what we're complaining about. We're complaining because the mod just isn't worth it, because it's just a marginal improvement over the original AP mod, AND it prevents you from using an Extended Barrel mod.

[landylan]

If you use both armor piercing mods, will you just ignore armor, or will you ignore it and get small bonus damage with the extra penetration?

[landylan]

It prevents you from using the extended barrel?

Is it not worth it on guns like the harrier then? Definitely not for the saber.

[slescens]

Seargent_Braken wrote...

slescens wrote...

I remember a few complaints way back in the beginning that opening up every weapon class to every character class marginalized the benefits of playing a soldier vs. a power class.

Now that only heavy shock troop soldier types can get the most benefit out of a new Assault Rifle mod, we are complaining that the weight is too much to handle... interesting. Very interesting.

That's not what we're complaining about. We're complaining because the mod just isn't worth it, because it's just a marginal improvement over the original AP mod, AND it prevents you from using an Extended Barrel mod.

I propose a compromise then...since it increases weight, add a stability mod effect to it.  A more weight = less recoil kind of argument.  That combined with a mag upgrade or scope would be sweet in my book anyway.

Modifié par slescens, 11 octobre 2012 - 12:13 .

[Transairion]

Isn't the one of the arguements for why it's inferior because "I'm using an Ammo consumable anyway?". What if you're, yaknow, not (blashemy I know)? Still, I can only see it being good on a Destroyer with a Particle Rifle/Typhoon.

Particle Rifle I take Extended Mag + Armor peircing mod anyway, Extended Mag + better armor peircing at the cost of weight (which doesn't affect the Destroyer) is nothing but an improvement.

Typhoon I don't own, but I'd go Extended Mag + AP mod too. Extended Barrel be damned, I'd rather have like 300 of 400 bullets in one clip lol.

I don't use Ammo consumables much, so it's blessing for my Destroyer. Doesn't affect anything else though so could use improvement... but are we arguing making the Avenger better again? It's the starting AR, it got the job done for me without any consumable at all and gave me +200% cooldown too...

[Rebel_Raven]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Granted, these mods aren't for every kit. The kits that care a lot about power recharge speed will probably have a hard time finding a use for them.

In my experience, the classes that care about recharge have a harder time with armored targets, so would benefit from the mods more.

Other, more weapon oriented classes can melt bosses efficiently as it is.

[Rifneno]

ASSUMINGDIRECTC0NTR0L wrote...

My Particle Rifle wielding Destroyer disagrees.

Congratulations, you've found pretty much the ONLY thing that this is useful on.  And it provides a very small improvement.  Yeah, what an awesome mod!

[The Shadow Broker]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

The Assault Rifle High-Velocity Barrel was never intended to increase weapon damage. We intended for it to be a heavier version of the existing penetration mod, so you get higher penetration for some extra weight. In hindsight, we should have called it something other than High-Velocity Barrel, as this seems to be leading to some confusion. We are looking into the possibility of renaming it.

Eric, what is the result of combining both AR high velocity Barrel and penetration mod?

(you can actually combo those 2 that have the same purpose but cant combine high velocity with the EXtended barrel (+damage mod))

Modifié par The Shadow Broker, 11 octobre 2012 - 01:35 .

[Mendelevosa]

I see no reason to use the HVB over the EB and AP mod.

[Quething]

xBotharix wrote...

Quething wrote...

xBotharix wrote...

My JustAss would never be caught dead with a PPR... or a GPR for that matter.. (well .. actually they might just.. seeing as they're such crappy guns for casters.)

Well, would you rather use the GPR on a turian soldier?

Uh.. how about you'd never catch a single of my characters with a GPR? But ya that one (or destroyer) could actually use it (marksman with ROF increase)

You're missing the point, like, super hard, dude.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Granted, these mods aren't for every kit. The kits that care a lot about power recharge speed will probably have a hard time finding a use for them.

Yes, there is little in the way of mods or gear for power users. Biotics for example do poor damage without explosions and nothing at all helps their explosions. The little bit of damage the gear/consumables boost their biotic damage by is not worth it and most biotics will chose shields over such a small dps boost.

i suggest you guys add gear/consumable that increases the damage of tech explsions and biotic explosions. The dominance of the shooty classes over power classes is due in part to the gap in usefulness of the gear and consumables for shooty classes.

[Bolo Xia]

Rebel_Raven wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Granted, these mods aren't for every kit. The kits that care a lot about power recharge speed will probably have a hard time finding a use for them.

In my experience, the classes that care about recharge have a harder time with armored targets, so would benefit from the mods more.

Other, more weapon oriented classes can melt bosses efficiently as it is.

in these situations, set at least one power up to deal with armor ( most power based class's have an armor damage option.)
if you do this the gun damage is just a little extra melting, with no need for the HVB.

otherwise it basically forces people to choose what they want for example:
1. high weapon damage(ok power damage)
2. high power damage (ok gun damage)
3. or a balance of both.

so make your choice

[J4mes]

My Destroyer already melts things with Particle Rifle, guess its time to liquify things.